SE and Foreign Born Players

[sarkin doya]

Over the years, similar to many other African teams, the player composition of SE has evolved. At one time, all the players were born in Nigeria and played locally. By the late nineties, most of the players were born in Nigeria but virtually all were playing overseas.

Fast forward to today. Virtually all the players play overseas by the time they are invited to SE. But a lot more of the players were born overseas.

In the game against Angola, if I'm not mistaken - 6 of the 11 starting lineup were born overseas. Should this trend continue, there may come a time when majority of the SE will consist of players of Nigerian heritage born overseas.

Any thoughts? Is this just a trend consistent with the modern times we live in where migration to Western countries continues and so it is a natural outcome with such a large Nigeria diaspora? How will this affect the local game and local leagues 5yrs from now, 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now?

ps I'm not making any remarks on the SE team at Afcon. I believe all the players were invited on merit - based on the perspective of the coach and NFF. My question is about longer term trends and strategy.

[chif456]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

[sarkin doya]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

[packerland]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

[Damunk]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

[greg]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

[Damunk]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

We don get one already for Falcons.

[Tbite]

This is a very complicated topic.

I have read some brilliant articles on the subject, covering both sides of the argument, and I mean VERY sophisticated articles with tons of research, and even those seem to not resolve the issue.

From what I can see. There are a multitude of factors at play yet. This is pretty much as complex an issue

I am on my famed mobile phone where I don't like framing my arguments. So I'll do this messily.

1) The first facet is that it is the best playing the best
2) but even the above is lazy, because the theoretical pool of talent in Nigeria will VASTLY surpass anything that you would ever find in Europe. So essentially if there is any period where the pool in Europe is substantial, it means Nigeria as a nation is doing something wrong.
3) This is not a simple assertion, because participation rates and the culture of the game is actually BIGGER in Nigeria than in Europe. It is an infrastructural and systemic failure.
4) but at the same time it intersects with the wicked problem of neo-colonialism and globalisation. These are the offspring of professionals who in all reality should mostly never have found their way to Europe in the first instance. It is then a reversal of a brain drain. A positive offshoot of an initially negative migratory drive.

I can go on about the facets of the issue. But I will conclude by raising an important point, YES the different dimensions can and are contradicting one another. While we can simply say that this is the best we have for now. This is likely a case where success will breed failure. The more successful we become with this model, the more the rot in Nigerian football will fester, and yes prominent people in Nigerian football have raised the issue.

Morocco has actually taken the issue more seriously and they built an impressive academy in Sale, where at least three critical players have come from. But even they are likely scratching the issue lightly.

This by the way is not a Nigerian issue. Perhaps it explains why there have been so many upsets in this tournament. Around 30% otnthe players in this tournament are apparently European born. I have not corroborated myself, but what that reflects, on a slightly unrelated note is that the teams of today are not exactly the teams we think we know. That would explain the apparent incongruity in expectations.

You cannot look at any particular team and think that you understand their structure and history, because it has been upended.

This is actually pretty conclusive. It doesn't mean that this is simply a case of a few players opting for a change in their plans as FIFA might have thought when they paved the way for this process. This is actually an entire continent realising that its infrastructure is inadequate and using the necolonial connection to bridge the gap.

I will say this is fine, but it cannot be a short-sighted adventure. This pattern must in someway circle back to how to develop thr game in Africa. I have stayed this before and people on here scoffed at it.

What I know for certain, is that let's say that in 15 years time, the issue has been taken seriously. You would not possibly see 30% of the continents championship participants coming from a relatively small diaspora.

It is akin to saying that 30% of Dambe fighters will come from a small diaspora when both the population and culture of interest in the genre is many times larger at home. It makes no sense.

I do not propose that we shun any such players. That would be a foolish way of cheapening my argument. What I am saying is that the federations in Africa do now have a monumental task in front of them to not abandon those raised in the continent.

It is a matter of colossal urgency requiring billions of dollars of investment.
The reality is that we have new opportunities and connections with the diaspora now, and that is great, but the rate of that connection must be surpasse by the fervour to develop the game in Africa.

Think about what Morocco have tried to accomplish in Sale, but many fold greater. I don't think this is a small matter, and I suspect that if FIFA have any semblance of intelligence and integrity, they will in fact be the catalyst the project themselves.

It is highly unlikely that any well meaning administrator would come to the conclusions that the game in Africa can be abandoned.

[Tbite]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

That is only using one tiny part of the argument to frame the entire thing.

The diaspora is small. Africa is not Tahiti. We are not a continent of a few. There are over a billion people in Africa. This seems to me to be a case of a privileged few being used to gloss over a failing majority.

The poster child for this relationship is Morocco right, so why have they doubled down on their own investments locally? They themselves realise the scale of what they have embarked upon.

Players like Yousef El Nesri (Pardon spelling) would not stand a chance in hell if you have this new wave without an influx of new investments....and yes we do owe it to them.

I have three siblings thay were not born in Nigeria, I myself lived in Nigeria for less than 10 years, another sibling less than 7 years...

Myself and the other siblings were born on three different continents! I think I am closer to this than perhaps anybody else here chiming in. I am the diaspora. But I cannot argue for just people like my siblings. I have to argue for those back in Africa as well.

To be clear. My argument should not be cheapened. In no way is my point even aimed at the diaspora. It is aimed at the administrators in Africa who are failing the local scene. The dominance of the minority Diaspora has no legitimate justification other than failure.

This is a success story, but it must be used to remind the administrators that there is work to be done. Nigeria should be building at least 10 world class academies of the same scale as the Moroccan facility.

[mcal]

Over the years, similar to many other African teams, the player composition of SE has evolved. At one time, all the players were born in Nigeria and played locally. By the late nineties, most of the players were born in Nigeria but virtually all were playing overseas.

Fast forward to today. Virtually all the players play overseas by the time they are invited to SE. But a lot more of the players were born overseas.

In the game against Angola, if I'm not mistaken - 6 of the 11 starting lineup were born overseas. Should this trend continue, there may come a time when majority of the SE will consist of players of Nigerian heritage born overseas.

Any thoughts? Is this just a trend consistent with the modern times we live in where migration to Western countries continues and so it is a natural outcome with such a large Nigeria diaspora? How will this affect the local game and local leagues 5yrs from now, 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now?

ps I'm not making any remarks on the SE team at Afcon. I believe all the players were invited on merit - based on the perspective of the coach and NFF. My question is about longer term trends and strategy.

...what is the difference?
If all the good football players are foreign born, or foreign raised, or foreign trained why don't it be same with all other facet of Nigeria life.
Let the president of the country and on down be foreign born, foreign raised, and foreign trained.
As we are now challenging for championship African football with foreign-wetin, may be Nigeria will be challenging for super power of the global world

[packerland]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

They are all hiding my brother. Go look at all the threads after we failed to qualify for the World Cup, and you can identify them.

[Bell]

Over the years, similar to many other African teams, the player composition of SE has evolved. At one time, all the players were born in Nigeria and played locally. By the late nineties, most of the players were born in Nigeria but virtually all were playing overseas.

Fast forward to today. Virtually all the players play overseas by the time they are invited to SE. But a lot more of the players were born overseas.

In the game against Angola, if I'm not mistaken - 6 of the 11 starting lineup were born overseas. Should this trend continue, there may come a time when majority of the SE will consist of players of Nigerian heritage born overseas.

Any thoughts? Is this just a trend consistent with the modern times we live in where migration to Western countries continues and so it is a natural outcome with such a large Nigeria diaspora? How will this affect the local game and local leagues 5yrs from now, 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now?

ps I'm not making any remarks on the SE team at Afcon. I believe all the players were invited on merit - based on the perspective of the coach and NFF. My question is about longer term trends and strategy.

NEED NOT BE ONE OR THE OTHER; CAN BE A WIN-WIN, AND...


...it's not very complicated. Any foreign-born person eligible to receive a Nigerian passport (birth, marriage, naturalization, refugee, asylum, etc) should have all the rights of those born in Nigeria to play for the SE.

On the other hand, the authorities in Nigeria must strive to provide the highest level of development for those born in Nigeria.

Then the lucky coach gets to choose from these two vast pools based only on merit. Once the team has been selected, the labels "foreign born" and "locals" go away and each player is referred simply as"Eagle".

What's so complicated about this? My only concern is my lack of faith in the hapless NFF. I'm afraid they will sit back and rely almost entirely on the foreign pool to the detriment of all because for all their talk they don't expect to win the WC one day and are therefore not planning accordingly.

Remember the foreign pool is a FIFA creation and can be changed anytime; not so with local kids.
Bell

[danfo driver]

tell him to his face that his son is not Nigerian enough.

[Coach]

In short, one could build 10 academies in each city countrywide, the impact would be marginal. If the issues that propel parents into the diaspora remain, so will the conveyor belt of kids made in/raised in diaspora. The advent of social media has popularised knowledge of sporting professions to children and most importantly, parents. The universality of a Nigerian sounding prefix or suffix on a sports jersey has opened eyes to the avenue as a profession. The proceeds of their success, even more so.

A death blow has been struck to the stereotypically Nigerian creed of “Medicine, Law, Accounting, Engineering” (Pharmacy being the safety net for those who miss the MBBS Boat). Having first and second degree relatives who play/have played professionally in England’s upper tiers/or are presently part of youth systems, on the evidence of any given Saturday, one can attest that, every single game watched has scores of young Nigerians (mostly) chasing the dream and mothers/fathers on the sideline fasting and praying for the professional contract.

The level of exposure to new technologies, greater training facilities and the general advancement in sports science, is incomparable. The level of investment, unrivalled. The playing fields, gorgeous carpets of green grass, cut to precision, that glisten like emeralds in the Cartagena sun. The pitches are of various sizes, crisscrossed with thick white lines to denote zones and half-spaces. Training balls of various size and weight to accelerate dribbling skill and acumen. Olympic level sprinting coaches to improve posture and position to heighten aerodynamics. The list is endless. And this is only one London club. Up and down the country it’s the same. And lest one forget, England was late to the party with regard to youth development. Across Europe the provisions are stellar too. The endpoint will be a gluttony of Ugochukwus, Chukwuemekas, Adebayos and Bakayos as far as the eye can see. Not all will conscript as lions or whatever, many will sprout talons and wings and soar as Eagles.

And their children? The cycle is self repeating.

The answer isn’t the building of academies in the caustic belly of a beast, rather to plant the fairytale princess’ kiss on its lips and return it to human or rather humane form.

Parents or those to be, don’t leave for want of playing fields for their children. Health, education, employment, security, housing, welfare. One can only imagine how dire the straits were for a couple to rather statelessness in Athens to living one more week in Lagos. Fast forward a few decades and they are the proud parents of an NBA phenomenon who may never have gotten there but for their Mediterranean odyssey.

Nigeria, Africa will continue to haemorrhage talent and have no choice but to open its doors for their superior skillsets return as representatives. The changes needed to curb the exodus, outside of the strict immigration laws of recipients, are as close to impossible as they are unlikely. Socioeconomic development, health and welfare systems, an appreciation of basic needs and the recognition of the responsibility of a State. No chance.

The Ades and Chukwus will leave, give birth to Olus and Ikems and all will wear the green and white, giving interviews in “wahgwan my G” and cockney rhyme. The more the merrier. Within the next 15 years, half of the line up will be mixed race with postmodern Instagrammable names like Hashtag Adeyomi and FOMO Chimaroke.

It is what it is. Diaspora remittance alone contributes how much to GDP? The notion of foreign this or that shouldn’t be given the prominence it is. When the money flies from the four corners of the globe to cover state failures, its foreignness is seldom spoken of and it’s no less legal tender. This is Africa.

To be honest, it’s the way of the modern world. Look at Italy for instance, the children of the fishing boats and dinghies are filling up youth teams in all sports. Scores of Willy Gnotos in every academy. If not mistaken, only a few years back, the high courts were debating an African diaspora’s youth basketball team’s eligibility to represent Italy. There will come a time when the line-up for the Azzura is blacker than the 100M final. Amen to that.

You lose what you cannot keep hold of.

If Africa can’t keep them at home, they will go, with a set of keys to let themselves in when they please, head straight to the kitchen and take the biggest piece of chicken from the pot. And rightly so, if it improves performance, that’s all that matters. The issues of development are the duties of the elected, let’s not mistake playing fields for legislation, investment and development. Without that holy trinity, it’s infrastructural atheism and sadly, for the most, their leaders, are as pious as Pontius Pilate.

[Damunk]

In short, one could build 10 academies in each city countrywide, the impact would be marginal. If the issues that propel parents into the diaspora remain, so will the conveyor belt of kids made in/raised in diaspora. The advent of social media has popularised knowledge of sporting professions to children and most importantly, parents. The universality of a Nigerian sounding prefix or suffice on a sports jersey has opened eyes to the avenue as a profession. The proceeds of their success, even more so.

A death blow has been struck to the stereotypically Nigerian creed of “Medicine, Law, Accounting, Engineering” (Pharmacy being the safety net for those who miss the MBBS Boat). Having first and second degree relatives who play/have played professionally in England’s upper tiers/or are presently part of youth systems, on the evidence of any given Saturday, one can attest that, every single game watched has scores of young Nigerians (mostly) chasing the dream and mothers/fathers on the sideline fasting and praying for the professional contract.

The level of exposure to new technologies, greater training facilities and the general advancement in sports science, is incomparable. The level of investment, unrivalled. The playing fields, gorgeous carpets of green grass, cut to precision, that glisten like emeralds in the Cartagena sun. The pitches are of various sizes, crisscrossed with thick white lines to denote zones and half-spaces. Training balls of various size and weight to accelerate dribbling skill and acumen. Olympic level sprinting coaches to improve posture and position to heighten aerodynamics. The list is endless. And this is only one London club. Up and down the country it’s the same. And lest one forget, England was late to the party with regard to youth development. Across Europe the provisions are stellar too. The endpoint will be a gluttony of Ugochukwus, Chukwuemekas, Adebayos and Bakayos as far as the eye can see. Not all will conscript as lions or whatever, many will sprout talons and wings and soar as Eagles.

And their children? The cycle is self repeating.

The answer isn’t the building of academies in the caustic belly of a beast, rather to plant the fairytale princess’ kiss on its lips and return it to human or rather humane form.

Parents or those to be, don’t leave for want of playing fields for their children. Health, education, employment, security, housing, welfare. One can only imagine how dire the straits were for a couple to rather statelessness in Athens to living one more week in Lagos. Fast forward a few decades and they are the proud parents of an NBA phenomenon who may never have gotten there but for their Mediterranean odyssey.

Nigeria, Africa will continue to haemorrhage talent and have no choice but to open its doors for their superior skillsets return as representatives. The changes needed to curb the exodus, outside of the strict immigration laws of recipients, are as close to impossible as they are unlikely. Socioeconomic development, health and welfare systems, an appreciation of basic needs and the recognition of the responsibility of a State. No chance.

The Ades and Chukwus will leave, give birth to Olus and Ikems and all will wear the green and white, giving interviews in “wahgwan my G” and cockney rhyme. The more the merrier. Within the next 15 years, half of the line up will be mixed race with postmodern Instagrammable names like Hashtag Adeyomi and FOMO Chimaroke.

It is what it is. Diaspora remittance alone contributes how much to GDP? The notion of foreign this or that shouldn’t be given the prominence it is. When the money flies from the four corners of the globe to cover state failures, its foreignness is seldom spoken of and it’s no less legal tender. This is Africa.

To be honest, it’s the way of the modern world. Look at Italy for instance, the children of the fishing boats and dinghies are filling up youth teams in all sports. Scores of Willy Gnotos in every academy. If not mistaken, only a few years back, the high courts were debating an African diaspora’s youth basketball team’s eligibility to represent Italy. There will come a time when the line-up for the Azzura is blacker than the 100M final. Amen to that.

You lose what you cannot keep hold of.

If Africa can’t keep them at home, they will go, with a set of keys to let themselves in when they please, head straight to the kitchen and take the biggest piece of chicken from the pot. And rightly so, if it improves performance, that’s all that matters. The issues of development are the duties of the elected, let’s not mistake playing fields for legislation, investment and development. Without that holy trinity, it’s infrastructural atheism and sadly, for the most, their leaders, are as pious as Pontius Pilate.

Excellent

[Damunk]

tell him to his face that his son is not Nigerian enough.

You dey mind dem?
I’ve been looking for this tweet.
See as Demola Lookman resembu him Papa.

[Tbite]

Coach I think your argument is a bit of a separate issue.

There are two types of exports Nigeria is known for.

Type 1) The first is Japa of the middle class and others (economic migrants)
Type 2) and then there are the footballing migrants.

The issue being discussed here is Type 1, what you are discussing is Type 2. Type 1 is unique to Africa. Type 2 is not unique to Africa.

Type 1 is a bigger issue for many reasons than Type 2. Type 1 destroys the Nigerian economy in a way that remittances does not begin to cure (I digress), but relating to football it is basically the children of middle class and other people who had the fortune of being abroad being fortunate to have access to facilities, that is all that is, nothing more and nothing less. They may not even necessarily be the best talent (innately), they just have the best ACCESS.

Traditionally I would argue that the best footballers come from the working class NOT the middle class, and a lot of this diasporan exports are Middle Class children, it tells you a lot. This is not a case of talent winning the day, but just ACCESS to money, winning the day (I could be wrong as far as the middle class/working class argument goes). This is NOT the crux of my argument, but I thought I would add it there.

But back to my main point, Type 2 is not too much of an issue. Because what does it mean? it means the facilities are there for anybody in Nigeria to access, the kid from Surulere, the kid from Makoko etc. When they eventually leave for Europe, that is not really a parallel to Type 1. The point is the local population have access.

What Type 1 does is basically disregards Nigeria as a country and relies only on those who have TIES to Nigeria. It disregards everybody from Magodo, from Bodija, from Jos, from Port Harcourt, from Kaduna, from Enugu. They CANNOT have any opportunity. It is easy to say it is uncomplicated or it is a win win, but this is a very weak argument and a very bothersome one (to be as polite as possible). Because we know the way that African countries operate.

There is no such thing as win win in African countries, not in Sub-saharan Africa. Administrators in Sub-Saharan Africa simply take the path of least resistance. It is not an example but the overwhelming LAW in Nigeria. Anything that can be done via shortcut will be done. In fact it is virtually guaranteed. So the success of the Diaspora WILL encourage the Nigerian machine to ignore the rot.

This thing you call globalization is really only found in Africa. I don't think people here are so much faulting my arguments as they are ignoring them. Because these things are just common sense.

Brazil is not relying on a diaspora, Germany are not relying on a diaspora, Japan are not relying on a diaspora, Mexico is not relying on a diaspora. This is an African phenomenon to bypass infrastructure.

The argument that Bell makes is tangential. It does not go deep into the issue. Diego Costa was from Brazil and played for Spain, nobody is saying these examples don't exist elsewhere. But what I am saying is that Spain is not relying on such a practice. They have their infrastructure. I am not really telling you guys what you do not already know, I am just forcing you not to ignore it. The reality is EVERYTHING I am writing, you all already know. You are just pretending you don't. Playing dumb, so to speak.

Now there is no issue with the Diaspora as I said (I said it numerous times, but people always like to cheapen arguments and try to strawman things). I said the issue will be that the administrators will take this as a sign of structural progress. This is a sign of progress of the team, the coach, the players, but it is not a sign of structural progress. The NFF does not get to come out and say 'Job done'.

Certainly even Morocco did not take that position. You guys can try to paint me as a loon all you want, but any expert with a semblance of critiquing ability will understand the logic of my post. There are actually numerous articles supporting my assertions here. Inn fact, what I could even do going forward is even stop typing and just reply with quotes and links. The idea that Tbite is coming up with an angle here is absurd. This is just common sense.

And I know that it is not a win win situation brewing, judging my some of the comments I have already seen. Nobody mentioned how this success can be used to build ANY sort of capacity back home, not one comment I saw. The only comments were "We can use this to get even more from the Diaspora".

I don't think Nigeria is taking any responsibility on any level. Even when Portugal went after Fabio Carvalho, the plan was to fast track him into the U-21 squad. In Europe, this is not merely a case of providing the means for dual national switches. Infrastructure EXISTS in Europe, so they are even happy for age-grade switches.

Think of it this way. Europe is mature enough to TRULY have the best of both worlds. Africa never reached any level of maturity and so is over relying on this project. Once again, this is obvious. Common sense. Not really an argument. You should already know this.

[Tbite]

The point is simple. The NFF should not let this success distract from the work that needs to be done structurally (Which they WILL). They are Nigerians, that is what Nigerians do. Take the easy way out.

[Dammy]

tell him to his face that his son is not Nigerian enough.

You dey mind dem?
I’ve been looking for this tweet.
See as Demola Lookman resembu him Papa.

The resemblance is striking!

[ANC]

Nigerians are "tribalists" at the core.
Another thread about SE and Foreign-born players?
That this is being discussed, even if benign, is divisive and in bad taste.

[Tbite]

Nigerians are "tribalists" at the core.
Another thread about SE and Foreign-born players?
That this is being discussed, even if benign, is divisive and in bad taste.

Depends HOW you discuss it. Any topic can be prejudicial depending on how you discuss it.

I am personally not discussing it in a prejudicial manner, though I am 99.999999999999% certain that CE will disregard that and insist that I am. This is probably the wrong type of place to have such discussions. My need to even reply is due to this constant tit for tat thing I have going on with Damunk. I don't expect to convince anybody here, because people don't really read arguments here, they just make assumptions and ignore your train of thought. I will probably discuss this in a different context.

But I will add this last bit. Since I had already written it.

These are some discussions on the topic.

https://theconversation.com/afcon-2023- ... ges-221953

https://trafo.hypotheses.org/44425

I suggest that anybody interested in this argument on any level read follow these links and read them top to bottom. Many of the arguments are in fact supporting some of your statements, but what the argument does is lay the issue out comprehensively not simplistically as is being done here.

Also read this

https://www.vox.com/c/world/2022/12/8/2 ... -world-cup

but even these experts IMO are making many mistakes. For example comparing the use of players with ties to Africa in the French team with player switching. The two are not the same phenomenon.

In the above link you can clearly see that Africa is unusual. But another mistake that many will make is to look a at a country like Australia and say it is like Africa. "Australia has one of the highest amounts of foreign-born residents in the world" However, this is once again different from what we have in Nigeria. Australia may get players from Kenya, Tanzania, and Sudan for example, but they nurture these players in the academies and A league. It is once again not really like what is happening in Africa. Players like Nestory Irankunda, Awer Mabil and Garang Kuol. ALL played for the U17 or U20.

So what I am talking about really is unique to Africa. I am not criticizing the player switching. I am criticizing the temptation to believe that our infrastructural problems have been solved. Is this the right juncture to raise the issue. For me, the more this current model succeeds, the more the voice needs to be amplified.

This is INDEED globalization (but don't say it so proudly). Africa is a pawn in globalization. Nigeria has outsourced too much of its economy. We don't do enough useful things in Nigeria anymore. We rely on other countries to do most of tasks for us. This obviously does not come free. Australian or American globalization is very different from Nigerian globalization. Globalization for those countries is often a repurposing of talent or goods. Globalization for us is a deferral of responsibilities.

I am not questioning the players. I am questioning what happened to our local footballing structure that made it ineffectual. That is not divisive, not even slightly.

I don't think there are many genuine debaters on CE. Very few. Enugu II is one of the few. I don't think CE has the capacity for these types of topics. That much I will agree with. Such topics can only be discussed in a prejudicial manner here. I have begrudgingly accepted that this is not the right forum to have the discussion. It is NOT that the discussion should not be had, but there are certain people and environments where things can be explained.

There are ways to navigate such things. Perhaps one way would be to not even mention the Diaspora. But alas, that is a moot point for the time being. This is not the place for such topics.

[Damunk]

Ol Boi, e hard to read all these your epistles on Eagles Nest in the middle of AFCON
And nor be only one sef.
Several.

[wanaj0]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.