How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Where Eagles dare! Discuss Nigerian related football (soccer) topics here.

Moderators: Moderator Team, phpBB2 - Administrators

User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37903
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:16 pm
Damunk wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:52 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Na wa.
Na so you see am?
“Brainwashing?”
Really?

What if I said you and Cellular are brainwashed into thinking that your fellow countrymen lack intellectual ability simply by virtue of them seeing things different from the way than you do?
In short, you guys are some of the few Nigerians/Africans/black men (take your pick) that have what it takes to avoid “brainwashing”?

Because that’s how you guys consistently come across… and it’s funny! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Just to clarify (and I will repeat it in caps yet again):
THE ARGUMENT IS NOT THAT NIGERIANS CANNOT COACH THE SNR NATIONAL TEAM!
THE ARGUMENT IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE COACHES THAT HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN PRACTISE (I.E, ON THEIR CVs) THAT THEY ARE UP TO IT.


I will repeat my rider:
Whether na Amuneke, Finidi or Oliseh, none of them will make a 20-man shortlist of anonymized applicants in a call thrown open for the SE job.

Y’all know this is true but I won’t hold my breath for an acceptance speech. :rotf:
Damunk

Rephrasing it does not help your point. There are multiple Nigerians who have demonstrated football managerial ability at all levels from the youth to adult levels. There are numerous ones and several mentioned here with remarkable results at senior club levels.

Bros, let's not make coaching football into something mysterious that is beyond Nigerians. That is just laughable.

TBH, I can understand if Nigeria was to state preference for a Polish guy over a Nigerian on a or z situational criterion. But I cannot accept that no Nigerian is qualified to manage the Eagles. That just makes no sense whatsoever based on previous records, extant records, or otherwise. That type of thinking reeks of a mentality that just should not be acceptable in this day and age.


The highlighted is not supported by any known facts and is only the product of a very fertile imagination.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
User avatar
maceo4
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 46804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:41 am
Location: Land of the Terrapins
Contact:
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by maceo4 »

Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Super Eagus 4 Life!
Made in the image of God that's a selfie!
User avatar
Ugbowo
Egg
Egg
Posts: 6282
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:22 pm
Location: Dallas/Houston, TX
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Ugbowo »

This sounds almost insulting.....almost.

If you listen to a lot of the people running our football and some of our ex internationals currently in our football set up (yes the ones we will be looking at for a coaching job unfortunately), you will probably be surprised at how much they actually don't know. Something you may think it's basic because you have read it tons of times somewhere....some of them no know.

You wonder why a lot of scouting is going on here on cybereagles and we seem to know more about some of our players than those incharge. Make I no too talk I beg.

Some of the conversations I have had with some of our heroes in recent years have left to be desired....at least in my opinion.

So saying hiring a local coach with someone to help guide him on the technical side or wherever else is not as far fetched as you may think. There are definitely some top notch Nigerian coaches out there....I just haven't been able to break bread with any of them yet. Hopefully one day.
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:48 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:16 pm
Damunk wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:52 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Na wa.
Na so you see am?
“Brainwashing?”
Really?

What if I said you and Cellular are brainwashed into thinking that your fellow countrymen lack intellectual ability simply by virtue of them seeing things different from the way than you do?
In short, you guys are some of the few Nigerians/Africans/black men (take your pick) that have what it takes to avoid “brainwashing”?

Because that’s how you guys consistently come across… and it’s funny! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Just to clarify (and I will repeat it in caps yet again):
THE ARGUMENT IS NOT THAT NIGERIANS CANNOT COACH THE SNR NATIONAL TEAM!
THE ARGUMENT IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE COACHES THAT HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN PRACTISE (I.E, ON THEIR CVs) THAT THEY ARE UP TO IT.


I will repeat my rider:
Whether na Amuneke, Finidi or Oliseh, none of them will make a 20-man shortlist of anonymized applicants in a call thrown open for the SE job.

Y’all know this is true but I won’t hold my breath for an acceptance speech. :rotf:
Damunk

Rephrasing it does not help your point. There are multiple Nigerians who have demonstrated football managerial ability at all levels from the youth to adult levels. There are numerous ones and several mentioned here with remarkable results at senior club levels.

Bros, let's not make coaching football into something mysterious that is beyond Nigerians. That is just laughable.

TBH, I can understand if Nigeria was to state preference for a Polish guy over a Nigerian on a or z situational criterion. But I cannot accept that no Nigerian is qualified to manage the Eagles. That just makes no sense whatsoever based on previous records, extant records, or otherwise. That type of thinking reeks of a mentality that just should not be acceptable in this day and age.


The highlighted is not supported by any known facts and is only the product of a very fertile imagination.
There are actual facts at all levels. That you are not aware of them or feign ignorance of them, do not extinguish them as FACTS.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37903
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:04 pm
txj wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:48 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:16 pm
Damunk wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:52 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Na wa.
Na so you see am?
“Brainwashing?”
Really?

What if I said you and Cellular are brainwashed into thinking that your fellow countrymen lack intellectual ability simply by virtue of them seeing things different from the way than you do?
In short, you guys are some of the few Nigerians/Africans/black men (take your pick) that have what it takes to avoid “brainwashing”?

Because that’s how you guys consistently come across… and it’s funny! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Just to clarify (and I will repeat it in caps yet again):
THE ARGUMENT IS NOT THAT NIGERIANS CANNOT COACH THE SNR NATIONAL TEAM!
THE ARGUMENT IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE COACHES THAT HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN PRACTISE (I.E, ON THEIR CVs) THAT THEY ARE UP TO IT.


I will repeat my rider:
Whether na Amuneke, Finidi or Oliseh, none of them will make a 20-man shortlist of anonymized applicants in a call thrown open for the SE job.

Y’all know this is true but I won’t hold my breath for an acceptance speech. :rotf:
Damunk

Rephrasing it does not help your point. There are multiple Nigerians who have demonstrated football managerial ability at all levels from the youth to adult levels. There are numerous ones and several mentioned here with remarkable results at senior club levels.

Bros, let's not make coaching football into something mysterious that is beyond Nigerians. That is just laughable.

TBH, I can understand if Nigeria was to state preference for a Polish guy over a Nigerian on a or z situational criterion. But I cannot accept that no Nigerian is qualified to manage the Eagles. That just makes no sense whatsoever based on previous records, extant records, or otherwise. That type of thinking reeks of a mentality that just should not be acceptable in this day and age.


The highlighted is not supported by any known facts and is only the product of a very fertile imagination.
There are actual facts at all levels. That you are not aware of them or feign ignorance of them, do not extinguish them as FACTS.


There is none. Merely regurgitating it here again and again does not change reality...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
User avatar
maceo4
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 46804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:41 am
Location: Land of the Terrapins
Contact:
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by maceo4 »

Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:09 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
I didn’t ask them to perform in Europe…can’t they start on their own continent? Who on the continent is seeking to hire Nigerian coaches? Let’s start there…I know for a fact that our league is not competitive on the continent and rarely makes a dent in continental competitions which speaks to the quality of the league and inherently the quality of the coaching. I saw how poor Finidis team was recently in the continental match we all watched here, his team was poorly coached and easily dispatched by Wydad home and away. There are no stand out coaches showing their pedigree back home, if there were it would be quite obvious…An Amodu was quite obvious, a Keshi was quite obvious…
Super Eagus 4 Life!
Made in the image of God that's a selfie!
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52998
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Damunk »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:33 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:09 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
I didn’t ask them to perform in Europe…can’t they start on their own continent? Who on the continent is seeking to hire Nigerian coaches? Let’s start there…I know for a fact that our league is not competitive on the continent and rarely makes a dent in continental competitions which speaks to the quality of the league and inherently the quality of the coaching. I saw how poor Finidis team was recently in the continental match we all watched here, his team was poorly coached and easily dispatched by Wydad home and away. There are no stand out coaches showing their pedigree back home, if there were it would be quite obvious…An Amodu was quite obvious, a Keshi was quite obvious…
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Wahala….
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
greg
Egg
Egg
Posts: 2296
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:10 pm
Location: Canada
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by greg »


But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Also Ndubuisi Egbo seems to be building a nice track record for himself in Albania. All the other names thave been unconvincing at the senior level. It's only Finito I would half-heartedly support for the sake of continuity like the CIV coach.
In reality, the budget does not allow for any big name coach, and the have done a great job scaring away good would-be applicants.
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:33 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:09 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
I didn’t ask them to perform in Europe…can’t they start on their own continent? Who on the continent is seeking to hire Nigerian coaches? Let’s start there…I know for a fact that our league is not competitive on the continent and rarely makes a dent in continental competitions which speaks to the quality of the league and inherently the quality of the coaching. I saw how poor Finidis team was recently in the continental match we all watched here, his team was poorly coached and easily dispatched by Wydad home and away. There are no stand out coaches showing their pedigree back home, if there were it would be quite obvious…An Amodu was quite obvious, a Keshi was quite obvious…
Mace

Okay, but ask yourself how many coaches have been hired outside their countries in Africa? Does that mean none of them is good? In my view, that is not a good index for measuring the quality of a manager. I can understand your point if coaches are even hired on pseudo objective factors. We are far from such a hiring process. As long as hiring of coaches remain meshed in very subjective indices, the insulation and old boys network will predominate. That is why you rarely see a coach hired outside his own abode and it is not just Nigerian coaches but Senegalese, Ghanaians, etc. Does that mean they are not good? Nope.

There are better indices to measure quality. For instance, how many have won consistently with the team that they manage.

We have seen Nigerian coaches do just as well as the foreign ones hired to manage the SE, does that not tell you something?

In my view, as long as we are not hiring exceptional managers for the SE, then there are multiple Nigerians who can effectively compete with the likes that we have regularly hired to coach the SE.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
maceo4
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 46804
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:41 am
Location: Land of the Terrapins
Contact:
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by maceo4 »

greg wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:35 am

But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Also Ndubuisi Egbo seems to be building a nice track record for himself in Albania. All the other names thave been unconvincing at the senior level. It's only Finito I would half-heartedly support for the sake of continuity like the CIV coach.
In reality, the budget does not allow for any big name coach, and the have done a great job scaring away good would-be applicants.
Egbo is who I was thinking of, I’m all for tapping him!
Super Eagus 4 Life!
Made in the image of God that's a selfie!
User avatar
ugly boy
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12256
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:50 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by ugly boy »

Bell wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:14 pm
ugly boy wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:32 pm I mean whatever someone like Finidi lacks in technical ability can be hired. There are many good match readers, scouts and tacticians working in several clubs in South America. We know Finidi loves his country and has hardly been involved in controversy like Oliseh
IF HE LACKS IT...


...why appoint him in the first place?
Bell
I haven't said he lacks it. It has been the justification for hiring a foreigner each time. I am not privy to Finidis ability however I know he was assistant coach in this AFCON and have never heard anything bad about him. He also coaches Eyimba. All i am saying is there is no justification for a big name foreign coach when we can hire guys who know our players and the african game and augment them in any areas they are lacking with "foreign" expertise where necessary. Same thing Senegal did with Cisse and they are experiencing great success with him
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

ugly boy wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:06 am
Bell wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:14 pm
ugly boy wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:32 pm I mean whatever someone like Finidi lacks in technical ability can be hired. There are many good match readers, scouts and tacticians working in several clubs in South America. We know Finidi loves his country and has hardly been involved in controversy like Oliseh
IF HE LACKS IT...


...why appoint him in the first place?
Bell
I haven't said he lacks it. It has been the justification for hiring a foreigner each time. I am not privy to Finidis ability however I know he was assistant coach in this AFCON and have never heard anything bad about him. He also coaches Eyimba. All i am saying is there is no justification for a big name foreign coach when we can hire guys who know our players and the african game and augment them in any areas they are lacking with "foreign" expertise where necessary. Same thing Senegal did with Cisse and they are experiencing great success with him
Ugly boy,

My position is slightly different.

1] if Nigeria seeks to hire the likes of Peseiro and Gernot Rohr, then there are multiple Nigerians who fit that pedigree and who can do as well.

2] Now if you seek to hire a truly exceptional manager, then I have no problems focusing on one who is not a Nigerian. Such managers are few and may be difficult to locate at home.

The above basically defines how I feel.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
Bell
Egg
Egg
Posts: 7109
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:43 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Bell »

IF THE ALLEGATION IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE NO QUALIFIED IC's, AND...


...to be sure, it's not true, I'm quite willing to get the best qualified one now and allow Nigeria to lose with them until they can start churning out qualified ones. Foreign coaches have come and gone and Nigeria has hardly made progress.

It appears many here are using this qualification thing to justify their preference for a foreign coach. Here are some arguments against that:

-Nigeria, starring foreign coaches in the latest AFCON, went against smaller countries who came with their own coaches and Nigeria hardly overwhelmed them.
-When CIV had their FC, they lost to Nigeria; when they installed a local, they beat Nigeria.
-Senegal has been just fine with one of their own.
-Westerhof did not have a distinguished career before and after he left Nigeria.
-Bonfrere had no distinguished record before the NFA elevated him to head coach; ditto Peseiro; ditto Rohr.

Even some of those who want a Nigerian coach have said they would accept a highly qualified FC, like Mourinho. I'm not even willing to do that in part because it would only delay the day Nigerian coaches would be the norm but also such coaches coming to Nigeria guarantees nothing - the quality of players is a far bigger factor in determining success than the coach.
Bell
Image
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

Bell wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:28 am IF THE ALLEGATION IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE NO QUALIFIED IC's, AND...


...to be sure, it's not true, I'm quite willing to get the best qualified one now and allow Nigeria to lose with them until they can start churning out qualified ones. Foreign coaches have come and gone and Nigeria has hardly made progress.

It appears many here are using this qualification thing to justify their preference for a foreign coach. Here are some arguments against that:

-Nigeria, starring foreign coaches in the latest AFCON, went against smaller countries who came with their own coaches and Nigeria hardly overwhelmed them.
-When CIV had their FC, they lost to Nigeria; when they installed a local, they beat Nigeria.
-Senegal has been just fine with one of their own.
-Westerhof did not have a distinguished career before and after he left Nigeria.
-Bonfrere had no distinguished record before the NFA elevated him to head coach; ditto Peseiro; ditto Rohr.

Even some of those who want a Nigerian coach have said they would accept a highly qualified FC, like Mourinho. I'm not even willing to do that in part because it would only delay the day Nigerian coaches would be the norm but also such coaches coming to Nigeria guarantees nothing - the quality of players is a far bigger factor in determining success than the coach.
Bell
Bell

You are truly wasting your time with most on CE. Nothing of what you wrote is new. It has always been the case and as long as we have this foreign-worship, it isn't changing in the next forty years.

You read about this and o e would think that managing football is so mysterious and complicated that mere mortaks like Nigerians can never grasp it. BEKE but Agbaea as Igbos say -- let's harken to the white God because he only can manage football successfully.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
iworo
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: New York
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by iworo »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:33 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:09 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
I didn’t ask them to perform in Europe…can’t they start on their own continent? Who on the continent is seeking to hire Nigerian coaches? Let’s start there…I know for a fact that our league is not competitive on the continent and rarely makes a dent in continental competitions which speaks to the quality of the league and inherently the quality of the coaching. I saw how poor Finidis team was recently in the continental match we all watched here, his team was poorly coached and easily dispatched by Wydad home and away. There are no stand out coaches showing their pedigree back home, if there were it would be quite obvious…An Amodu was quite obvious, a Keshi was quite obvious…
Well said.
User avatar
iworo
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: New York
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by iworo »

Enugu II wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:57 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:33 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:09 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:57 pm
Cellular wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:27 pm
iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
There's a guy named Fritz Pollard in American football. Years after he was the first black coach there are still people who doubt that a black man can be a coach albeit a successful one.

There was also a guy named Tony Collins in the UK. The first of his kind... he also won a trophy.

Prof., Enugu II is speaking out of experience. Before him was his father who conquered areas most people dared not to embark on. Muchless an African or a Naijarian. More than 60 years after he conquered what was beyond the reach of Africans some people still have the mindset that Coaching is one thing our people can't do well?

Who did this to us?
But show me where our Nigerian coaches are doing well…it’s easy to show where Nigerians are doing well in other arenas but I don’t see us exporting coaches, I don’t see them being heavily sought after. In fact I see most of our coaches going around waiting for the FA to hand them a job when they haven’t even attained the basic coaching badges and certifications. The last one was Amunike who failed miserably with Tanzania and hasn’t found a job since.

Nobody is saying we can’t, but show us the qualified ones that are doing well so they can be considered for the NT…the guy who coached in one Scandinavian country (can’t remember his name) seems like the only one remotely fitting the minimum requirements but is he even currently coaching in any capacity?

All this aspirational talk is good, but show us the guys with the requisite qualifications that are putting in the work to improve themselves and showcasing their coaching ability at a decent level and no one will argue with giving them a chance. We did with Chuckwu, Amodu, Eguavoen, Keshi, Siasia, Oliseh etc but it was Olisehs colossal failure that led us back to this path of hiring foreigners. If he was any good he would have led us for a good while, but we see how he left us high and dry after he couldn’t handle the weight of the job, despite being one of our ‘brightest’ hopes at the time…
Mace

How much do you know about Nigerian coaches should be a starting question at local league and the levels below.?

Second, asking them to first perform in Europe or outside ignores the existence of old boys network in hiring of coaches. That surely cannot be a credible measure.
I didn’t ask them to perform in Europe…can’t they start on their own continent? Who on the continent is seeking to hire Nigerian coaches? Let’s start there…I know for a fact that our league is not competitive on the continent and rarely makes a dent in continental competitions which speaks to the quality of the league and inherently the quality of the coaching. I saw how poor Finidis team was recently in the continental match we all watched here, his team was poorly coached and easily dispatched by Wydad home and away. There are no stand out coaches showing their pedigree back home, if there were it would be quite obvious…An Amodu was quite obvious, a Keshi was quite obvious…
Mace

Okay, but ask yourself how many coaches have been hired outside their countries in Africa? Does that mean none of them is good? In my view, that is not a good index for measuring the quality of a manager. I can understand your point if coaches are even hired on pseudo objective factors. We are far from such a hiring process. As long as hiring of coaches remain meshed in very subjective indices, the insulation and old boys network will predominate. That is why you rarely see a coach hired outside his own abode and it is not just Nigerian coaches but Senegalese, Ghanaians, etc. Does that mean they are not good? Nope.

There are better indices to measure quality. For instance, how many have won consistently with the team that they manage.

We have seen Nigerian coaches do just as well as the foreign ones hired to manage the SE, does that not tell you something?

In my view, as long as we are not hiring exceptional managers for the SE, then there are multiple Nigerians who can effectively compete with the likes that we have regularly hired to coach the SE.
I'm willing to entertain your thought process, and let's employ your suggested indices to measure quality. Could you please name three Nigerian coaches who have demonstrated consistent winning records with their teams and possess the qualifications suitable for coaching our National Team?
User avatar
iworo
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3777
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: New York
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by iworo »

Bell wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:28 am IF THE ALLEGATION IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE NO QUALIFIED IC's, AND...


...to be sure, it's not true, I'm quite willing to get the best qualified one now and allow Nigeria to lose with them until they can start churning out qualified ones. Foreign coaches have come and gone and Nigeria has hardly made progress.

It appears many here are using this qualification thing to justify their preference for a foreign coach. Here are some arguments against that:

-Nigeria, starring foreign coaches in the latest AFCON, went against smaller countries who came with their own coaches and Nigeria hardly overwhelmed them.
-When CIV had their FC, they lost to Nigeria; when they installed a local, they beat Nigeria.
-Senegal has been just fine with one of their own.
-Westerhof did not have a distinguished career before and after he left Nigeria.
-Bonfrere had no distinguished record before the NFA elevated him to head coach; ditto Peseiro; ditto Rohr.

Even some of those who want a Nigerian coach have said they would accept a highly qualified FC, like Mourinho. I'm not even willing to do that in part because it would only delay the day Nigerian coaches would be the norm but also such coaches coming to Nigeria guarantees nothing - the quality of players is a far bigger factor in determining success than the coach.
Bell
You just highlighted one of the crucial aspect of the challenges plaguing our country. I hope that you know that our leaders are reflection of our society. You cannot have a morally upright organizations or government in a society where corruption, tribalism, and xenophobia prevail among the people. The mentality that only our own people can provide solutions can limit our progress across various sectors. Whether in politics, governance, corporate affairs, or sports, prioritizing merit over tribe or nationality is essential for success. Once we start picking qualified candidates for roles and positions in all aspects of our society and organizations, then we will achieve success.

I don’t give a damn if we win competitions with foreign coaches or not. At the end of the day, what matters is the achievement itself and the positive impact it brings to our nation. The history books will remember Nigeria's victories, regardless of the coach's nationality.

Contributions of German Jews to America and USSR in making them superpowers (i.e. atomic bomb and rocket technology), emphasize that competence and collaboration transcend nationality. What's important is harnessing the best talent available to drive progress and success.
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23806
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Enugu II »

iworo wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:31 am
Bell wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:28 am IF THE ALLEGATION IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE NO QUALIFIED IC's, AND...


...to be sure, it's not true, I'm quite willing to get the best qualified one now and allow Nigeria to lose with them until they can start churning out qualified ones. Foreign coaches have come and gone and Nigeria has hardly made progress.

It appears many here are using this qualification thing to justify their preference for a foreign coach. Here are some arguments against that:

-Nigeria, starring foreign coaches in the latest AFCON, went against smaller countries who came with their own coaches and Nigeria hardly overwhelmed them.
-When CIV had their FC, they lost to Nigeria; when they installed a local, they beat Nigeria.
-Senegal has been just fine with one of their own.
-Westerhof did not have a distinguished career before and after he left Nigeria.
-Bonfrere had no distinguished record before the NFA elevated him to head coach; ditto Peseiro; ditto Rohr.

Even some of those who want a Nigerian coach have said they would accept a highly qualified FC, like Mourinho. I'm not even willing to do that in part because it would only delay the day Nigerian coaches would be the norm but also such coaches coming to Nigeria guarantees nothing - the quality of players is a far bigger factor in determining success than the coach.
Bell
You just highlighted one of the crucial aspect of the challenges plaguing our country. I hope that you know that our leaders are reflection of our society. You cannot have a morally upright organizations or government in a society where corruption, tribalism, and xenophobia prevail among the people. The mentality that only our own people can provide solutions can limit our progress across various sectors. Whether in politics, governance, corporate affairs, or sports, prioritizing merit over tribe or nationality is essential for success. Once we start picking qualified candidates for roles and positions in all aspects of our society and organizations, then we will achieve success.

I don’t give a damn if we win competitions with foreign coaches or not. At the end of the day, what matters is the achievement itself and the positive impact it brings to our nation. The history books will remember Nigeria's victories, regardless of the coach's nationality.

Contributions of German Jews to America and USSR in making them superpowers (i.e. atomic bomb and rocket technology), emphasize that competence and collaboration transcend nationality. What's important is harnessing the best talent available to drive progress and success.
Iworo

We have gone through this process before and can only conclude that few people here follow the league. I am frustrated by the same questions repeatedly. You can scroll to similar previous threads and there are multiple names that I have previously listed. You can also do a search.

Iworo, just a question: can you name 5 locally based coaches in the NPFL and their clubs? If you can and let me know their antecedents, then I will oblige. That will indicate that you actually pay attention to what happens locally.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1935
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by gochino »

Damunk wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:52 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Na wa.
Na so you see am?
“Brainwashing?”
Really?

What if I said you and Cellular are brainwashed into thinking that your fellow countrymen lack intellectual ability simply by virtue of them seeing things different from the way than you do?
In short, you guys are some of the few Nigerians/Africans/black men (take your pick) that have what it takes to avoid “brainwashing”?

Because that’s how you guys consistently come across… and it’s funny! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Just to clarify (and I will repeat it in caps yet again):
THE ARGUMENT IS NOT THAT NIGERIANS CANNOT COACH THE SNR NATIONAL TEAM!
THE ARGUMENT IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE COACHES THAT HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN PRACTISE (I.E, ON THEIR CVs) THAT THEY ARE UP TO IT.


I will repeat my rider:
Whether na Amuneke, Finidi or Oliseh, none of them will make a 20-man shortlist of anonymized applicants in a call thrown open for the SE job.

Y’all know this is true but I won’t hold my breath for an acceptance speech. :rotf:
Well, the point is to encourage them and give them that platform. What was Guardiola's qualification when he took over Barcelona? What of Xavi or Enrique? or Lampard when he took over mighty Chelsea? The last 3 Afcon winners were local coaches, let that sink in for a moment! What exactly was the qualification of Ivory coast assistant coach that thought Pasiero a tactical lesson?
User avatar
Bell
Egg
Egg
Posts: 7109
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:43 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Bell »

iworo wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:31 am
Bell wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:28 am IF THE ALLEGATION IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE NO QUALIFIED IC's, AND...


...to be sure, it's not true, I'm quite willing to get the best qualified one now and allow Nigeria to lose with them until they can start churning out qualified ones. Foreign coaches have come and gone and Nigeria has hardly made progress.

It appears many here are using this qualification thing to justify their preference for a foreign coach. Here are some arguments against that:

-Nigeria, starring foreign coaches in the latest AFCON, went against smaller countries who came with their own coaches and Nigeria hardly overwhelmed them.
-When CIV had their FC, they lost to Nigeria; when they installed a local, they beat Nigeria.
-Senegal has been just fine with one of their own.
-Westerhof did not have a distinguished career before and after he left Nigeria.
-Bonfrere had no distinguished record before the NFA elevated him to head coach; ditto Peseiro; ditto Rohr.

Even some of those who want a Nigerian coach have said they would accept a highly qualified FC, like Mourinho. I'm not even willing to do that in part because it would only delay the day Nigerian coaches would be the norm but also such coaches coming to Nigeria guarantees nothing - the quality of players is a far bigger factor in determining success than the coach.
Bell
You just highlighted one of the crucial aspect of the challenges plaguing our country. I hope that you know that our leaders are reflection of our society. You cannot have a morally upright organizations or government in a society where corruption, tribalism, and xenophobia prevail among the people. The mentality that only our own people can provide solutions can limit our progress across various sectors. Whether in politics, governance, corporate affairs, or sports, prioritizing merit over tribe or nationality is essential for success. Once we start picking qualified candidates for roles and positions in all aspects of our society and organizations, then we will achieve success.

I don’t give a damn if we win competitions with foreign coaches or not. At the end of the day, what matters is the achievement itself and the positive impact it brings to our nation. The history books will remember Nigeria's victories, regardless of the coach's nationality.

Contributions of German Jews to America and USSR in making them superpowers (i.e. atomic bomb and rocket technology), emphasize that competence and collaboration transcend nationality. What's important is harnessing the best talent available to drive progress and success.
YEAH, RIGHT…


…Nigeria can only make progress if all jobs are outsourced and labeled “Nigerians Need Not Apply”. Why not the presidency also?

If the sin of reserving one position ONLY in the country to Nigerians is xenophobia, what do you call the sin of telling Nigerians they’re not eligible to apply for certain jobs in the land of their birth?

Some xenophobia. Have you considered that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs – transportation, health, education, entertainment, hi tech, construction, energy, agro, religion, etc – open to foreigners?

Nigeria has employed foreign coaches on and off over 70 years and are still not able to find a qualified local? Actually, they can: the truth is that there are Nigerians who strangely have confidence only in foreign coaches and their blood pressure rises when they see a local patrolling the sidelines. How can you find qualified Nigerians if you deny them the job in the first place. Oh, yes, they should go and prove themselves in Europe first and then return to Nigeria. Meaning that Europe should employ coaches Nigeria considers unqualified.

The ”German Jews” who helped the US & USSR – were they foreigners or citizens?
Bell
Image
User avatar
Coach
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 34641
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:07 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by Coach »

Mediocrity is as mediocrity does. There should be a minimum standard, which in most industries translates into qualification to certain degree, that is essential for the role. If coaching badges become the minimum requirement, then that becomes the pursuit of those intent on national team management.

Thereafter experience, leadership, managerial style and comparability are all key requirements. Simply being a son of the soil should not, cannot be a shortcut to the dugout for any “well intended”, serious national side. That’s not to exclude their candidacy but rather reiterate the absolute importance of meritocracy.

As fairytale as Faes’ winning of the AfCON was, the tournament as a whole offers no argument for Africa’s chances beyond the continent. Fae did well but that most certainly doesn’t represent the path best taken. Neither does a pale skinned Messiah for that matter. Competence cares not for colour.

As has been said in earlier threads, there will come a point in time when the algorithm holds hegemony, when technology’s dictatorship is totalitarian. Big real time data poured into super speed processors, which in turn churn out decisions on tactic, strategy, performance, players. And all in-play. In a not too distant future, sitting atop an upturned blue Bielsa bucket, R2D2000 scans the playing field, Joey Bloggs’ 79% pass completion triggers a bluetoothed message to the 4th official. Substitution.

And yes, the pentium processor’s intel 800, iOS 25X hybrid has all the requisite badges uploaded and displayed on the homepage. Point being, it’s no longer the 1990s, time to think future, for it is now. Competence, umbrellaing all the aforementioned qualities and more is all that matters. Whatever next, legislation mandating Muslim-Muslim coach and assistant pairing to follow every Xtian-Xtian predecessor. Pathetic.
User avatar
TonyTheTigerKiller
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12442
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:55 pm
Re: How about a Local coach with a foreign assistant

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

iworo wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:15 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:01 pm The reality is that this type of talk often demonstrates the deep brainwashing of folks. First, there is nothing in football coaching that makes it impossible for someone from Agbalidi Inyi to acquite. Nigerians are in far more complex and challenging fields. Managing soccer is a lot less tasking than several fields conquered by hundreds of Nigerians. I just laugh. When Nigeria FF talks about hiring a foreign manager, those in tge know should realize that it is simply a CODE for embezzling funds and has nothing to do with issues regarding indigenous ability.
Enugu II, if we follow your line of thinking, one might expect to see a significant number of exceptional soccer coaches from countries like United States, China, and India, given their successes in other complex and challenging fields.

My brother, it's important to recognize that coaching sports requires a distinct set of skills and knowledge that may not directly correlate with success in other domains. While individuals from these countries may possess certain attributes that could be advantageous in coaching, success in soccer coaching ultimately depends on a range of factors specific to the sport and the individual coach's abilities and experiences. You feel me bro?
The inherent suggestion in your post is that Nigerians and Africans at large don’t possess the distinct set of skills required for coaching sports. You have no way of knowing that therefore, it is not a valid assumption. The fact that there are Nigerians who have had various successes in coaching and sports administration belies that suggestion🤔❗️


Cheers.

Post Reply