ANNOYED AS HELL....Rumors on the proposed hiring of Dutch Manager

[Enugu II]

Some of you guys don't mind sacrificing the careers of 27 + players and dreams of 250 million plus people to give one local unqualified coach a chance. Get over it already we saw a cameo of Finidi who couldnt even manage his players. Left people who should start on merit on the bench with no conversation or interest in those players for his favorites, some of whom aren't getting minutes at their div 2 club. Stop the madness Im glad NFF is not going to settle for that type of coach. The same NFF that hired Waldrum obviously realize the task on the mens side is even more difficult.

UNBELIEVABLE


The careers of these 27+ players are not with the SE, but with their clubs. If it is wrong to sacifice the careers of these players, it is even worse to sacrifice the long term good of the 200+ millions of Nigerians who must be liberated from a culture of dependency and a sencse of "it's beyond us". Who would lead except the educated elites? And here they are reinforcing that sad culture. Let's be blunt: the present squad WILL NOT win the next WC regardless of who the coach is, and the best coach in the world would only improve things marginally. So this is the time to roll up the sleeves and face the challenge of uplifting the country, not to yield to self doubt.
Bell

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

[txj]

Some of you guys don't mind sacrificing the careers of 27 + players and dreams of 250 million plus people to give one local unqualified coach a chance. Get over it already we saw a cameo of Finidi who couldnt even manage his players. Left people who should start on merit on the bench with no conversation or interest in those players for his favorites, some of whom aren't getting minutes at their div 2 club. Stop the madness Im glad NFF is not going to settle for that type of coach. The same NFF that hired Waldrum obviously realize the task on the mens side is even more difficult.

UNBELIEVABLE


The careers of these 27+ players are not with the SE, but with their clubs. If it is wrong to sacifice the careers of these players, it is even worse to sacrifice the long term good of the 200+ millions of Nigerians who must be liberated from a culture of dependency and a sencse of "it's beyond us". Who would lead except the educated elites? And here they are reinforcing that sad culture. Let's be blunt: the present squad WILL NOT win the next WC regardless of who the coach is, and the best coach in the world would only improve things marginally. So this is the time to roll up the sleeves and face the challenge of uplifting the country, not to yield to self doubt.
Bell

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

[txj]

Some of you guys don't mind sacrificing the careers of 27 + players and dreams of 250 million plus people to give one local unqualified coach a chance. Get over it already we saw a cameo of Finidi who couldnt even manage his players. Left people who should start on merit on the bench with no conversation or interest in those players for his favorites, some of whom aren't getting minutes at their div 2 club. Stop the madness Im glad NFF is not going to settle for that type of coach. The same NFF that hired Waldrum obviously realize the task on the mens side is even more difficult.

UNBELIEVABLE


The careers of these 27+ players are not with the SE, but with their clubs. If it is wrong to sacifice the careers of these players, it is even worse to sacrifice the long term good of the 200+ millions of Nigerians who must be liberated from a culture of dependency and a sencse of "it's beyond us". Who would lead except the educated elites? And here they are reinforcing that sad culture. Let's be blunt: the present squad WILL NOT win the next WC regardless of who the coach is, and the best coach in the world would only improve things marginally. So this is the time to roll up the sleeves and face the challenge of uplifting the country, not to yield to self doubt.
Bell

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

[Damunk]

Some of you guys don't mind sacrificing the careers of 27 + players and dreams of 250 million plus people to give one local unqualified coach a chance. Get over it already we saw a cameo of Finidi who couldnt even manage his players. Left people who should start on merit on the bench with no conversation or interest in those players for his favorites, some of whom aren't getting minutes at their div 2 club. Stop the madness Im glad NFF is not going to settle for that type of coach. The same NFF that hired Waldrum obviously realize the task on the mens side is even more difficult.

UNBELIEVABLE


The careers of these 27+ players are not with the SE, but with their clubs. If it is wrong to sacifice the careers of these players, it is even worse to sacrifice the long term good of the 200+ millions of Nigerians who must be liberated from a culture of dependency and a sencse of "it's beyond us". Who would lead except the educated elites? And here they are reinforcing that sad culture. Let's be blunt: the present squad WILL NOT win the next WC regardless of who the coach is, and the best coach in the world would only improve things marginally. So this is the time to roll up the sleeves and face the challenge of uplifting the country, not to yield to self doubt.
Bell

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

[Enugu II]

UNBELIEVABLE


The careers of these 27+ players are not with the SE, but with their clubs. If it is wrong to sacifice the careers of these players, it is even worse to sacrifice the long term good of the 200+ millions of Nigerians who must be liberated from a culture of dependency and a sencse of "it's beyond us". Who would lead except the educated elites? And here they are reinforcing that sad culture. Let's be blunt: the present squad WILL NOT win the next WC regardless of who the coach is, and the best coach in the world would only improve things marginally. So this is the time to roll up the sleeves and face the challenge of uplifting the country, not to yield to self doubt.
Bell

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

Damunk

So I have accurately captured it. So you do question that viewpoint? Right? I hope you realize that there are other views suc b as those that I express?

As I point out, familiarize yourself with the state of human knowledge in order to understand d that the only undisputed FACTS exist at lower levels such as mechanical movements but cannot and do not exist in any social science including the issues we discuss here. The examples are legion of the reality that the best players are not in the big leagues. What you find is that there is a high probability that they will be there.And even at that the best changes rapidly. It is this point that I steadfastly note. Do you ignore the best elsewhere? My viewpoint is NO. Here, I ignore other specific variables that impact migration of Nigerian players there also critical. Nigerian players have a decidedly different migratory trajectory from players in Europe. Are you accounting for those?

[Bell]

I’m all out for Finidi unless we come up with a performing and experienced foreign coach.
Meanwhile I hate this ‘white’ coach narrative instead of ‘foreign’ coach
It’s so patronizing and deliberately framed that way by our Nigerian Freedom Fighters keen on showing they are proud black people.

But sentiments aside, can you publish the Managerial records of all three for comparison?
Playing careers have nothing to do with it.
Some of the top managers in the world had mediocre playing careers or non at all, while some of the world’s very best footballers spectacularly failed as managers.

So their managerial careers is what’s important and it would be nice to compare the records of Finidi, Amuneke and this guy who as u rightly said, nobody knows.

Damunk

As you mentioned, the annoying thing is that this guy is a non achiever. I am stating as per his managerial career.! Compare to Finidi who won the League at Enyimba and we cannot even compare their playing career. You can simply Google the guy's career.

NFF hiring this guy or someone of his calber will be a travesty.

if Finidi started our best players against Mali and made more than 2 subs, he will easily be the favorite to get the job. He made it very clear that he was unfit for the job, period!

I DON'T THINK SO


Nigerians are constantly in search of a reason to get rid of a Nigerian coach. Recall how Amodu was cheated of the right he earned to lead the team to for Japan/Korea because he lost to a 10-man Cameroonian team. It gave them the perfect excuse they were overturning stones to find.

They did the same for S Africa 2010.

Tell me if this does not bother you about the mindset of Nigerians, policy makers and people alike. The Swede Lagerback (hired sight unseen as usual) who posted the worst performance for any Nigerian team (0 - 3) in WC history was begged to stay because ostensibly they wanted continuity. Yet Finidi, 1 - 1, in friendlies must go because they allege he has no understanding of substituting.

If it's not his substitution, they'd find something else. How is it that people who cannot make their village team are coming here to question Finidi's understanding of substitutions. Imagine the chutzpah? Did he not substitue as coach in Europe and at Eyimba?

What shakes me even more is that this this kind of attitude takes place in more important areas that the public doesn't get to see.
Bell

[Bell]

He is a good option, because, he would not quit his job. He will manage SE, the same Randy manages the SF. So, it's win, win.

How does that benefit the SE?

It benefits the NFF more than.... He comes in just before SE matches and leaves for his club after the match.

He is based in Europe, where all the players are based.

When his salary is delayed by the NFF, he still has a day job paying his salary.

It works with the SF, why shouldn't it work with the SE.

EXACTLY WHAT THE SE NEEDS


A part time coach, whose full time job is managing a major Dutch club, whose primary residence is in Europe, who has no time to scout the SE players in Europe, never mind scouting new players in Nigeria, who does not liase with the NFF, who would be impeded in planning friendlies, who does not understand the Nigerian culture or mindset, who has no time to understand the other African countries, who doesn't meet with his Nigerian assistants (who according to the NFF are supposed to "understudy" him),

Even with all that, according to the foreign boosters, he's still better than Finidi. Or Siasia. Or Amunike. Or Oliseh. Or Eguavon. Or any combination thereof.

Weep for your nation.
Bell

[Bell]

LET'S NOT ABSOLVE THE NIGERIAN ASSISTANTS


It is time they sacrificed and reject any offer by the NFF to act as assistants "to understudy" the foreign journeyman. This ruse has been going on for decades and the NFF has yet to find one good enough to finally and permanently replace the journeyman. The truth of course is that this just a false sweetener by the NFF to get people to do the dirty work for the journeyman. If the NFF wants to go foreign, let them go all the way and bring in foreign assistants. No half measures.
Bell

[Dammy]

When Nigeria and Nigerians jettison the value they place on education, and doing anything it takes to acquire it, then you will have a point.
But as long as we have only 3 or 4 Nigerians out of 200m that have demonstrated their ability (kind of) to take on a national assignment as important as the SE job, then sorry, there should be no compromise.
We know Nigerians can achieve anything, anywhere in any circumstances, but our coaches are just not pulling their weight.
Deny that, and we can’t take you seriously.

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

Damunk

So I have accurately captured it. So you do question that viewpoint? Right? I hope you realize that there are other views suc b as those that I express?

As I point out, familiarize yourself with the state of human knowledge in order to understand d that the only undisputed FACTS exist at lower levels such as mechanical movements but cannot and do not exist in any social science including the issues we discuss here. The examples are legion of the reality that the best players are not in the big leagues. What you find is that there is a high probability that they will be there.And even at that the best changes rapidly. It is this point that I steadfastly note. Do you ignore the best elsewhere? My viewpoint is NO. Here, I ignore other specific variables that impact migration of Nigerian players there also critical. Nigerian players have a decidedly different migratory trajectory from players in Europe. Are you accounting for those?

E11, by your logic, should we be searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack when we know with all probability that the best players are in the best leagues?
Who has the time for that? National team selection is not an academic exercise!

[fabio]

LET'S NOT ABSOLVE THE NIGERIAN ASSISTANTS


It is time they sacrificed and reject any offer by the NFF to act as assistants "to understudy" the foreign journeyman. This ruse has been going on for decades and the NFF has yet to find one good enough to finally and permanently replace the journeyman. The truth of course is that this just a false sweetener by the NFF to get people to do the dirty work for the journeyman. If the NFF wants to go foreign, let them go all the way and bring in foreign assistants. No half measures.
Bell

Bell, I totally agree with the above. Just didn't have the time to write it yesterday. Had the same thought as well.

If there is a Coaches association, they should take a stand, No more Nigerian assistant doing the "jackee work". Years after the so called apprenticeship, they are never do enough to lead the team.

Let, the new Coach bring all his assistants.

[Enugu II]

Damunk

It seems that your view of Nigerian coaches is based on recycled ones. Let me ask, are you aware that several coaches groomed here and tge UK frequently are coaching teams in Nigeria? Although they are mostly at tge academies, one or two are at the NPFL level. Then there are some home grown who are also advanced. In my view, there is no lack of coaching talents in Nigeria. What the issue may be is access for some of them at the highest levels.

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

Damunk

So I have accurately captured it. So you do question that viewpoint? Right? I hope you realize that there are other views suc b as those that I express?

As I point out, familiarize yourself with the state of human knowledge in order to understand d that the only undisputed FACTS exist at lower levels such as mechanical movements but cannot and do not exist in any social science including the issues we discuss here. The examples are legion of the reality that the best players are not in the big leagues. What you find is that there is a high probability that they will be there.And even at that the best changes rapidly. It is this point that I steadfastly note. Do you ignore the best elsewhere? My viewpoint is NO. Here, I ignore other specific variables that impact migration of Nigerian players there also critical. Nigerian players have a decidedly different migratory trajectory from players in Europe. Are you accounting for those?

E11, by your logic, should we be searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack when we know with all probability that the best players are in the best leagues?
Who has the time for that? National team selection is not an academic exercise!

Dammy

We don't, right? But what then led to discovery of Nwabali? Is such effort not worth unearthing such players?

[1naija]

You guys may be onto something here. By the time the NFF calculate the pay for all the Onyibo assistants and the Onyibo head coach, nobody will tell them to consider capable local coaches instead.

LET'S NOT ABSOLVE THE NIGERIAN ASSISTANTS


It is time they sacrificed and reject any offer by the NFF to act as assistants "to understudy" the foreign journeyman. This ruse has been going on for decades and the NFF has yet to find one good enough to finally and permanently replace the journeyman. The truth of course is that this just a false sweetener by the NFF to get people to do the dirty work for the journeyman. If the NFF wants to go foreign, let them go all the way and bring in foreign assistants. No half measures.
Bell

Bell, I totally agree with the above. Just didn't have the time to write it yesterday. Had the same thought as well.

If there is a Coaches association, they should take a stand, No more Nigerian assistant doing the "jackee it". Years after the so called apprenticeship, they are never do enough to lead the team.

Let, the new Coach bring all his assistants.

[Dammy]

Prof, ‘the highest level’ for the overwhelming majority of coaches the world over, is premier tier club football.
Only La crème de La crème get to coach snr national teams….unless of course there is a shortage of genuine ‘top level’ coaches in that country.
In which case, the ‘up and coming’ (with good reason and evidence) get hired; or at worst, the ‘journeymen’. Basically you get what you pay for.

You keep talking about ‘talents’.
I don’t think any serious footballing country continues going on and on about ‘talent’ outside youth football. In the senior game, whether coaching or playing, it’s no longer about ‘talent’. Talent by definition is undeveloped. It’s simply natural potential. It’s mostly used in that context.

Yes, they’ll still talk about a 17 yr old like Kobbie Mainoo as a ‘talent’, but again only becos he’s a kid. They won’t still be calling him a talent in ten years time even if he becomes the best in the world.

Talent dey in abundance.
”Talent is nothing without dedication and discipline, and dedication and discipline is a talent in itself”.
It’s the development of that talent that counts at the level we are talking about.
I don’t know how many times this difference has to be repeated.

We want more than a talented SE coach. Talent is just the baseline.
We want to see a demonstrable application of that talent.
That basically is performance.

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

Damunk

So I have accurately captured it. So you do question that viewpoint? Right? I hope you realize that there are other views suc b as those that I express?

As I point out, familiarize yourself with the state of human knowledge in order to understand d that the only undisputed FACTS exist at lower levels such as mechanical movements but cannot and do not exist in any social science including the issues we discuss here. The examples are legion of the reality that the best players are not in the big leagues. What you find is that there is a high probability that they will be there.And even at that the best changes rapidly. It is this point that I steadfastly note. Do you ignore the best elsewhere? My viewpoint is NO. Here, I ignore other specific variables that impact migration of Nigerian players there also critical. Nigerian players have a decidedly different migratory trajectory from players in Europe. Are you accounting for those?

E11, by your logic, should we be searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack when we know with all probability that the best players are in the best leagues?
Who has the time for that? National team selection is not an academic exercise!

Dammy

We don't, right? But what then led to discovery of Nwabali? Is such effort not worth unearthing such players?

Nice try E11, but we have been selecting goalkeepers from the South African league since the days of Willy Okpara at Orlando Pirates in the 90s to Akpeyi!

[Enugu II]

Damunk,

I am beginning to understand your viewpoint on some of these issues. It seems to me that you believe the current state of things are to be unquestioned -- top players are the only ones at top clubs, Big 5 clubs have the best players, coaches at BIG clubs are unquestionably the best in the world, etc.

Well, that is just what I DO NOT BELIEVE and for cogent reasons. The world is not as perfect as you may think, it is not even close. I urge you to read up on the four systems of the world by Ludwing von Bertalasnffy to understand that human kind is barely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge of the world. The current world is full of imperfections. There are numerous reasons that explain the imperfection and I can write 100-pages of work on why and have done so. Thus, while we continue to seek a formula or a solution to the challenges, questions, and other issues that we face using our current systems; I see a system that requires change, LOTS OF CHANGES.

EII,

All due respects but you have NOT begun to understand his viewpoint.

And in reality it is not even a viewpoint, but a statement of fact!

And the fact is that there are tiers or levels in football. And the standards generally (NOT COMPLETELY), but GENERALLY follow these levels.

And where players and or coaches excel at the lower level, they inevitably migrate to the top tier.

That is not simply Damunk's viewpoint, but a reaffirmation of facts.

And its not about perfection; that is just simply a red herring...

Thank you.
I’m not saying anything revelatory here.
It’s just the way it is and everyone knows it.

Damunk

So I have accurately captured it. So you do question that viewpoint? Right? I hope you realize that there are other views suc b as those that I express?

As I point out, familiarize yourself with the state of human knowledge in order to understand d that the only undisputed FACTS exist at lower levels such as mechanical movements but cannot and do not exist in any social science including the issues we discuss here. The examples are legion of the reality that the best players are not in the big leagues. What you find is that there is a high probability that they will be there.And even at that the best changes rapidly. It is this point that I steadfastly note. Do you ignore the best elsewhere? My viewpoint is NO. Here, I ignore other specific variables that impact migration of Nigerian players there also critical. Nigerian players have a decidedly different migratory trajectory from players in Europe. Are you accounting for those?

E11, by your logic, should we be searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack when we know with all probability that the best players are in the best leagues?
Who has the time for that? National team selection is not an academic exercise!

Dammy

We don't, right? But what then led to discovery of Nwabali? Is such effort not worth unearthing such players?

Nice try E11, but we have been selecting goalkeepers from the South African league since the days of Willy Okpara at Orlando Pirates in the 90s to Akpeyi!

Dammy

Good. But note South African league is neither Big Five nor in Europe. We have also selected from NPFL. So you do agree that it is okay to select players from both leagues, as I understand it. If that is the case, then we are in agreement then. I have no problem with that.

[Damunk]

]

if Finidi started our best players against Mali and made more than 2 subs, he will easily be the favorite to get the job. He made it very clear that he was unfit for the job, period!

I DON'T THINK SO


Nigerians are constantly in search of a reason to get rid of a Nigerian coach. Recall how Amodu was cheated of the right he earned to lead the team to for Japan/Korea because he lost to a 10-man Cameroonian team. It gave them the perfect excuse they were overturning stones to find.

They did the same for S Africa 2010.

Tell me if this does not bother you about the mindset of Nigerians, policy makers and people alike. The Swede Lagerback (hired sight unseen as usual) who posted the worst performance for any Nigerian team (0 - 3) in WC history was begged to stay because ostensibly they wanted continuity. Yet Finidi, 1 - 1, in friendlies must go because they allege he has no understanding of substituting.

If it's not his substitution, they'd find something else. How is it that people who cannot make their village team are coming here to question Finidi's understanding of substitutions. Imagine the chutzpah? Did he not substitue as coach in Europe and at Eyimba?

What shakes me even more is that this this kind of attitude takes place in more important areas that the public doesn't get to see.
Bell

Too many one-sided points you make.
Here’s just one:
Nigerians are “constantly in search of a reason to fire the national team coach, local or foreign.” Like you say, there’s always an excuse. It’s the Naija way and nor be today.

The sacking of Rohr and its timing was one of the stupidest things the NFF with the support of Nigerian fans have done, probably in the last decade.
Just like they did Amodu, again fully backed by the fans.

You also conveniently forget how the NFF with the support of you Amanda! people came within a whisker of sacking Waldrum before the WWC just last year.
The predicament we are in right now is simply a repeat of 2+ years ago.
We nor dey learn.

So yes, blame the NFF as much as you like because they deserve blame.
But let’s not act as if their decisions do not tally with the desires of millions of fans.

Nigerian fans like to enjoy the credit but take none of the blame.
I wish Amuneke all the best but I dey fear for am.
Unlike the NFF, Nigerian fans no sign contract therefore dem no send.

[Enugu II]

]

if Finidi started our best players against Mali and made more than 2 subs, he will easily be the favorite to get the job. He made it very clear that he was unfit for the job, period!

I DON'T THINK SO


Nigerians are constantly in search of a reason to get rid of a Nigerian coach. Recall how Amodu was cheated of the right he earned to lead the team to for Japan/Korea because he lost to a 10-man Cameroonian team. It gave them the perfect excuse they were overturning stones to find.

They did the same for S Africa 2010.

Tell me if this does not bother you about the mindset of Nigerians, policy makers and people alike. The Swede Lagerback (hired sight unseen as usual) who posted the worst performance for any Nigerian team (0 - 3) in WC history was begged to stay because ostensibly they wanted continuity. Yet Finidi, 1 - 1, in friendlies must go because they allege he has no understanding of substituting.

If it's not his substitution, they'd find something else. How is it that people who cannot make their village team are coming here to question Finidi's understanding of substitutions. Imagine the chutzpah? Did he not substitue as coach in Europe and at Eyimba?

What shakes me even more is that this this kind of attitude takes place in more important areas that the public doesn't get to see.
Bell

Too many one-sided points you make.
Here’s just one:
Nigerians are “constantly in search of a reason to fire the national team coach, local or foreign.” Like you say, there’s always an excuse. It’s the Naija way and nor be today.

The sacking of Rohr and its timing was one of the stupidest things the NFF with the support of Nigerian fans have done, probably in the last decade.
Just like they did Amodu, again fully backed by the fans.

You also conveniently forget how the NFF with the support of you Amanda! people came within a whisker of sacking Waldrum before the WWC just last year.
The predicament we are in right now is simply a repeat of 2+ years ago.
We nor dey learn.

So yes, blame the NFF as much as you like because they deserve blame.
But let’s not act as if their decisions do not tally with the desires of millions of fans.

Nigerian fans like to enjoy the credit but take none of the blame.
I wish Amuneke all the best but I dey fear for am.
Unlike the NFF, Nigerian fans no sign contract therefore dem no send.

Damunk

You are correct that Nigerian fans readily call for tge removal of a manager as spon as results begin to turn sour. However, what you miss is how long the leash is for a local v foreign manager before it is cut by the NFF. What I recollect is that the leash for a foreign manager is often longer. Think about the long disappointing results during Roht's second term before the rug was pulled. How many Nigerian managers had that? Perhaps Keshi did but only because he recruited the support of a powerful state official which then forced the NFF to seek measures that were extra in order to remove we him.

[Enugu II]

]

if Finidi started our best players against Mali and made more than 2 subs, he will easily be the favorite to get the job. He made it very clear that he was unfit for the job, period!

I DON'T THINK SO


Nigerians are constantly in search of a reason to get rid of a Nigerian coach. Recall how Amodu was cheated of the right he earned to lead the team to for Japan/Korea because he lost to a 10-man Cameroonian team. It gave them the perfect excuse they were overturning stones to find.

They did the same for S Africa 2010.

Tell me if this does not bother you about the mindset of Nigerians, policy makers and people alike. The Swede Lagerback (hired sight unseen as usual) who posted the worst performance for any Nigerian team (0 - 3) in WC history was begged to stay because ostensibly they wanted continuity. Yet Finidi, 1 - 1, in friendlies must go because they allege he has no understanding of substituting.

If it's not his substitution, they'd find something else. How is it that people who cannot make their village team are coming here to question Finidi's understanding of substitutions. Imagine the chutzpah? Did he not substitue as coach in Europe and at Eyimba?

What shakes me even more is that this this kind of attitude takes place in more important areas that the public doesn't get to see.
Bell

Too many one-sided points you make.
Here’s just one:
Nigerians are “constantly in search of a reason to fire the national team coach, local or foreign.” Like you say, there’s always an excuse. It’s the Naija way and nor be today.

The sacking of Rohr and its timing was one of the stupidest things the NFF with the support of Nigerian fans have done, probably in the last decade.
Just like they did Amodu, again fully backed by the fans.

You also conveniently forget how the NFF with the support of you Amanda! people came within a whisker of sacking Waldrum before the WWC just last year.
The predicament we are in right now is simply a repeat of 2+ years ago.
We nor dey learn.

So yes, blame the NFF as much as you like because they deserve blame.
But let’s not act as if their decisions do not tally with the desires of millions of fans.

Nigerian fans like to enjoy the credit but take none of the blame.
I wish Amuneke all the best but I dey fear for am.
Unlike the NFF, Nigerian fans no sign contract therefore dem no send.

Damunk

You are correct that Nigerian fans readily call for tge removal of a manager as spon as results begin to turn sour. However, what you miss is how long the leash is for a local v foreign manager before it is cut by the NFF. What I recollect is that the leash for a foreign manager is often longer. Think about the long disappointing results during Roht's second term before the rug was pulled. How many Nigerian managers had that? Perhaps Keshi did but only because he recruited the support of a powerful state official which then forced the NFF to seek measures that were extra in order to remove we him.

As for Amuneke, IF HE IS INDEED NAMED MANAGER, he surely faces the same and his leash will be shorter than Keshi's. That is certain. It is life as Nigerian manager. Let's be clear that Amuneke has not been named and neither has a trusted source reported that he is the frontrunner.