FOREIGN COACH BORA FOR $1, 000 000 ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:29 am

green4life wrote:2 WC wins, one versus a top 5 team...

G4L:
Well, break out the champagne! Two narrow wins offset by two wide losses -- earns Bora more money than is voted for Nigerian unversities! And that of course, ignores the pre-tournament whallopings of 1-5, 0-3, 0-1 and even 2-4 against a Swiss clubside.

....and of course, this was a coach that took an injured Kanu, Amokachi and Iroha to France '98, along with the over-the-hill gang of Rufai, Eguavoen, Uche Okafor and Yekini. Yet was NEVER accused of the "corruption" so liberally hurled at indigenous coaches.

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:41 am

Its a Goal wrote:Bell, you conveniently make all manner of excuses why ICs failed but never have you publicly acknowledged most of their own limitations, least of which is tactical awareness.

IAG:
I do not hold brief for BELL (he i more than capable to so do himself), but I am sure that he recognizes the hypocritical double standards that are often applied in evaluating Nigeria's foreign and indigenous coaches.

Coaches alternatively succeed and fails EVERYWHERE, regardless of passport or nationality. In fact, one coach may succeed at one club and fail at another, while another coach may alternatively succeed and fail at the same club.

When coaches like Bora, Bonfrere and Libregts (who infamously only beat Burundi at Abeokuta in his Eagles' tenure) fail and such failure is rationalized, while indigenous coaches like Amodu, Onigbinde and Chukwu are vilified at the first sign of "failure", there is a problem that extends well beyond the sidelines.

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:49 am

Gotti, you and Bell's arguments are tired. No one is saying just pick and white man and hand him the job; it has to be a competent FC; if you feel so strongly about supporting you own inspite of their limitations, then go back home and help out instead of cozing it up wherever you are; go home, dump your designer suits nd wear your kaftan or wrapper or wuteva; promote your own peoples culture and clothing;

You lounge comfortably in a foreign mans land and yet you say we shouldn't give them a job even if they are qualified;

You and Bell are both hypocrites; you say one thing and practice another; soon you'll be making excuses for Chukwu's glaring incompetence.

Even if Ligbrets was a bad coach, it is no excuse to give another bad coach (dunce 'n all) the job simply because he is black;

You both keep talking like we proponents of FC just want any white man even a dunce to take over; that is not the case and you know it.

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:57 am

this is how this problem started

1) Nigeria needs a competent coach

2) All IC's are in compentent

3) some FC's are competent

therefore Nigeria needs a Compentent FC, somethins compentent is dropped, but still implied, hence Nigeria needs and FC

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:10 am

YEMSTER:
A comprehension problem perhaps?! We are against the DOUBLE STANDARDS employed wrt foreign and indigenous coaches -- both in conditions of service and in evaluation. You cannot have one person running uphill and a second running downhill or flat, and then pronounce that the latter outruns the perform.

________________________________________________

As for the tired "go home" argument, this is neither the time nor forum, but for your personal edification: the blood, sweat and tears of my people (including the unacknowledged and unrewarded blood of the many Nigerians who died on the battlefield to ensure that the Western Europeans that many virtually canonize on this forum did not all become enforced German-speakers) contributed as much to the development of this country as any of the immigrants from Europe, Asia or the American subcontinent. I make absolutely NO APOLOGIES in living here wile EARNING my livelihood globally -- and apparently unlike you, NO-ONE in this country is doing me any favors! I CREATE wealth here, provide employment for others and subsidize the education, health and infastructure of the local populace through my taxes. And I still find time to help Nigeria!

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:15 am

Scourge wrote:this is how this problem started

1) Nigeria needs a competent coach

2) All IC's are in compentent

3) some FC's are competent

therefore Nigeria needs a Compentent FC, somethins compentent is dropped, but still implied, hence Nigeria needs and FC

SCOURGE:
Bryan Robson certainly is NOT competent, but yet myriad Nigerians were ready to virtually sacrifice the ANC as the bumbling NFA put aside all business to futilely pursue him. It is exctly those sorts of DOUBLE STANDARDS that rankle.

erythro · Post by **erythro** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:23 am

NFA has to be the most incompetent footballing organization around. So disorganized, i wanna throw up.

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:27 am

Gotti wrote:
Scourge wrote:this is how this problem started

1) Nigeria needs a competent coach

2) All IC's are in compentent

3) some FC's are competent

therefore Nigeria needs a Compentent FC, somethins compentent is dropped, but still implied, hence Nigeria needs and FC
SCOURGE:
Bryan Robson certainly is NOT competent, but yet myriad Nigerians were ready to virtually sacrifice the ANC as the bumbling NFA put aside all business to futilely pursue him. It is exctly those sorts of DOUBLE STANDARDS that rankle.

that is still no reason to support IC.

Bold part: As opposed to what we are doing now?

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:31 am

Scourge wrote: that is still no reason to support IC.

SCOURGE:
We all want competent coaches, but unfortunately the NFA could not spot a competent coach if one sat on its face! Therefore, between foreign and indigenous coaches of questionable competence, I will opt for the indigenous coach.

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:32 am

Double standard or not, ICs are not upto the task yet...and there's no sugarcoating it; maybe one or two here and there but I sure ain't seen any so far; and i'll be damned if I'll support us just given any Yahoo the job simply becos he's black;

The double standard is not just with the FA; it's part of the Nigerian society; even companies that hire expatriates pay them much more than they pay Nigerians; they get paid in forex and then get local allowances in Naira; to the best of my knowledge, according to the Nigerian law, Nigerian public servants are not entitled to be paid in forex; the best they can get is estacode during foreign trips; if you don't like it then go back home and change it; simply giving jobs to incompetent clowns isn't going to change things; a widescale chnage like that is beyond the scope of our football; it borders more on the Nigerian polity; if that improves, it'll trickle down to our footy administration;

Right now our stop gap solution is to get a competent coach, black, white, blue, red, yellow, brown whereever; so far I ain't seen one in Naija; if you know of one, let us know!

Earning your living in a foreign economy doesn't necessarily mean you're employed there by someone; the fact is you live in a white mans land and earn your keeps there; if you make your own money, then go home and CREATE wealth there, provide employment for your OWN people and subsidize YOUR OWN peoples education, health and infastructure thru your taxes; buy made in Nigeria clothes and stop wearing foreign designer clothes after all naija made clothes are cheaper and if you give a naija tailor the same money you give a foreigner designer, he will produce something just as good; if you don't want a foreigner to be given a coaching job in naija then don't earn your own keeps in a foreign land; that is blatant hypocricy and no amount of your grammar while hide or change the fact!

And yes come back with your same lame tired comprehension deficit line and blow all the grammar you want to hide the fact; it won't change anything!

BTW, your excuses about money being paid is ridiculuous; are you saying LCs don't perform well becos they're not paid as much money; so in short if they get more money, they will suddenly develop additional knowledge from the air? So right now that means they're sabotaging their own efforts and holding us to ransom by intentionally underachieving cos of their meagre pay;

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:39 am

theYemster wrote:then go home and CREATE wealth there, provide employment for your OWN people and subsidize YOUR OWN peoples education, health and infastructure thru your taxes; buy made in Nigeria clothes and stop wearing foreign designer clothes after all naija made clothes are cheaper and if you give a naija tailor the same money you give a foreigner designer, he will produce something just as good

YEMI:
I do all of that already!

And btw I have NEVER once mentioned color in any of my post, so stop seeking refuge in cheap racist emotionalism.

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:45 am

theYemster wrote:BTW, your excuses about money being paid is ridiculuous; are you saying LCs don't perform well becos they're not paid as much money; so in short if they get more money, they will suddenly develop additional knowledge from the air? So right now that means they're sabotaging their own efforts and holding us to ransom by intentionally underachieving cos of their meagre pay;

Just like the mercantile-minded to reduce 'conditions of service' to just money. Nevertheless, even if it just money, how did you develop your own professional knowledge? Did you "suddenly develop additional knowledge from the air"? Or did you have to pay MONEY to so enable you to?!

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:47 am

Gotti wrote:And btw I have NEVER once mentioned color in any of my post, so stop seeking refuge in cheap racist emotionalism.

You needn't have to; it's implied in your comments;

Like I said, until you go home, stay and practice what you preach, you're nothing but a hypocrite;

anikulapo · Post by **anikulapo** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:50 am

This authority guy is performing "Voodoo Economics" and employing "Jayson Blair-type" reporting of facts....

Please where in God's name did Nigeria come up with the sum of 1,000,000 US to pay useless Bora.....and secondly, how does winning two games equate to one....Na wa ohhhh...

Anyway, me personally would take CCC over Bora anyday...The guy is a con-man and a useless coach

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:53 am

theYemster wrote:
Gotti wrote:And btw I have NEVER once mentioned color in any of my post, so stop seeking refuge in cheap racist emotionalism.
You needn't have to; it's implied in your comments;

Like I said, until you go home, stay and practice what you preach, you're nothing but a hypocrite;

YEMI:
Stop resorting to cheap lies! Nothing in my post remotely suggests color (and those on the forum who know me know why) but of course I am not surprised that those bereft of substantive arguments will resort to cheap emotionalism and personal attacks.

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:07 am

Gotti wrote:
theYemster wrote:BTW, your excuses about money being paid is ridiculuous; are you saying LCs don't perform well becos they're not paid as much money; so in short if they get more money, they will suddenly develop additional knowledge from the air? So right now that means they're sabotaging their own efforts and holding us to ransom by intentionally underachieving cos of their meagre pay;
Just like the mercantile-minded to reduce 'conditions of service' to just money. Nevertheless, even if it just money, how did you develop your own professional knowledge? Did you "suddenly develop additional knowledge from the air"? Or did you have to pay MONEY to so enable you to?!

Well, if you're saying the FA should pay to improve the LCs that's another matter; whatever professional knowledge you assume I developed, I certainly didn't develop it by experimenting my way in an all-important job I was most certainly unqualified for;

The SE job is not a charity, position for self improvement;

Aniks, I dunno how you came about your conman and useles coach theory but if only Chukwu was half as knowledgeable as Bora Milutinovic, i'd be willing to stick with him;

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:13 am

Gotti wrote:
theYemster wrote:
Gotti wrote:And btw I have NEVER once mentioned color in any of my post, so stop seeking refuge in cheap racist emotionalism.
You needn't have to; it's implied in your comments;

Like I said, until you go home, stay and practice what you preach, you're nothing but a hypocrite;
YEMI:
Stop resorting to cheap lies! Nothing in my post remotely suggests color (and those on the forum who know me know why) but of course I am not surprised that those bereft of substantive arguments will resort to cheap emotionalism and personal attacks.

You just wait, next time i'll resort to expensive ones; I'm even surprised you're spiffing all this grammar; for someone that is so pro-naija to the point of mediocrity, you should be speaking pidgen english or wuteva local dialect; you enjoy all the perks of the foreigners (even when you have the opportunity to do otherwise), and then you turn around and condemn others for trying to do same in the absence of better alernatives; enuff of your hypocricy;

Again, about the color thingy, it is implied in your arguments...you forget our discussion and arigument on this didn't just originate from this thread;

Gotti · Post by **Gotti** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:48 am

theYemster wrote:Again, about the color thingy, it is implied in your arguments...you forget our discussion and arigument on this didn't just originate from this thread;

Here is a simple rule: if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

I have never ever mention color ANYWHERE ON THIS FORUM (and those who have MET me will instinctivlely know why), so stop compounding your racist lies with more lies. It is a pathetic substitute for mental rigour.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:31 am

Bell and other IC fans,

The starting line-up should give you a clue of CCC (lack of) tactics. If that somehow miraculously misses you, the game should more than let you know that CCC's gameplans were rudimentary, at best.

Stop filing flagrant excuses as to CCC's knowledge of the game. I think the team will even perform well without CCC giving outdated and outstyled tactical input. NFA sure have a hand to play but together with CCC, our nations cup journey looks to be immensely short-lived, bar individual inspiration.

khalela · Post by **khalela** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:27 pm

Facts:
1) We need a good coach
2) Do we have any competent local coach to do it now-No!!!
3) Should we sacrifice our pursuit for Team glories by making our LC learn on the job-Definetely NOT!!
4) Are there competent foreign coaches to do it now-Yes
There are coaches and there are coaches. Our main problem is that when we ask for good F.C's NFA try to bamboozle us with some cheapsters. And some of us think that we are betraying our country by getting a foreign coach but we are only trying to build our teams up. I distinctly remember how the whole of England wanted to die when Sven Goran Erikkson was appointed as coach.But England needed a good coach with good pedigree who they felt could deliver them. Cos when we get to the nitty gritty, the country's football would have been the one to suffer if the F.A had listened to all the crying from Sir Bobby Robson and Co.
You have to get to a stage that not any coach will do for you.
Train your own coaches for the future but let us not jeopardize our present with sentiments.

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:25 pm

Gotti wrote:
Scourge wrote: that is still no reason to support IC.
SCOURGE:
We all want competent coaches, but unfortunately the NFA could not spot a competent coach if one sat on its face! Therefore, between foreign and indigenous coaches of questionable competence, I will opt for the indigenous coach.

that is not a bad arguement.
However to some ppl Chukwu isn't even a coach