John Obi Mikel: Development

[erikga]

Just to clarify - Mikel did not have a single defensive bone in his body when he played for Lyn. He was always going for the glory of being the offensive midfielder, without having to trundle back to do the mundane task of defending.

But I am very impressed with his "growing up" lately. He has grown as a player and seems to have shred the bad attitude that plagued hin at Lyn and in his first period at Chelsea.

Maybe we will finally see the world class player that was always there, but hid under the (advisor-fueled) arrogance of youth.

Erik G

[green4life]

Ferguson wants Obi to replace Keane... According to this article...
http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/s ... 05-006.htm

Although, if you read the article closely, it is actually the journalist's take... Sir Alex is not quoted saying this.

And I would think Obi would not be a straight replacement for Keane, those two are very different players.

Erik G

Thanks CMS for this one.

It is interesting that Oga Ferguson was trying to play Mikel in the DM position or something similar.

Does anyone else find this interesting? Lets discuss....

Very interesting. So Fergie also saw Mikel as a DM. Hmmmm... however, playing devil's advocate, manure fans can argue that it would have been temporary given the apparent moves to secure the services of Hargraves (for 20MP??) which would allow Carrick to move into a CM type role (Mikel's true position IMO).

[CMS]

Jesus, man if you need a propaganda outlet, at least go and set up your own website instead of using CE.

You came here and yabbed for ages about "he is going to Chelsea", now the hammer is about to fall - and you are exposed - and you are setting it up as "well they are trying to conving him"!

Really, enough of this crap.

You are a REAL case! I dont have time to check your past responses on this issue to know if you were one of those who said a decision is coming out later this October 2005. If this might help you NO DECISION WILL BE MADE OCTOBER 2005. Why I am NOT the DRC my understanding of the event based on the extension would mean that a decision is not expected for another few weeks or perhaps early next year.

Hmnnnn!!!!

I see again.. guilty or not guilty?

We the jury find Morgan Anderson guilty as charged..

[Catalyst]

Ziontrain, let himself be sucked in bad.

[Waffiman]

Ziontrain, let himself be sucked in bad.

ZT gave his opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. Why vilifying him after the event, hindsight is a wonderful thing and it is easy to yab now. At least the man had an opinion which differed from the norm and expressed it. I say kudos to that.

[Ziontrain]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

[green4life]

Jesus, man if you need a propaganda outlet, at least go and set up your own website instead of using CE.

You came here and yabbed for ages about "he is going to Chelsea", now the hammer is about to fall - and you are exposed - and you are setting it up as "well they are trying to conving him"!

Really, enough of this crap.

You are a REAL case! I dont have time to check your past responses on this issue to know if you were one of those who said a decision is coming out later this October 2005. If this might help you NO DECISION WILL BE MADE OCTOBER 2005. Why I am NOT the DRC my understanding of the event based on the extension would mean that a decision is not expected for another few weeks or perhaps early next year.

Hmnnnn!!!!

I see again.. guilty or not guilty?

We the jury find Morgan Anderson guilty as charged..

CMS, i'm loving this please keep digging ... no gree dem to rest

[maceo4]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

[Ziontrain]

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

The word is cAhoots.

In any case, you arejust exposing the fact that you dont even know about the case although eager to have an "opinion".

The accusation of the court was that Anderson falsified a page of supposed professional contract with Lyn that had BOTH Shittu and Obi's signature on it. This contract would have to exist for Lyn to be the contractual "owner" of Obi and therefore the sole party with the right to sell him to Man In.

So if in fact Anderson forged that page, well it makes sense, since it would not do him any good to have a page with only Obi's signature on it, for that contract.

However, for Obi to sign a Man U contract, well Shittu's signature wasnt needed. And Anderson didnt need to forge Obi's signature - Obi willingly signed that contract (the court did not dispute this), then went to the press conference all smiles, where he gladly posed with a Man U shirt.

But hey, dey there with your "opinion" when you dont even know the basic facts. It if you ask me, it is scary that some people have the right to vote. No wonder George Bush is in the white house and McCain is on tap.

[Vincent.]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

[maceo4]

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

The word is cAhoots.

In any case, you arejust exposing the fact that you dont even know about the case although eager to have an "opinion".

The accusation of the court was that Anderson falsified a page of supposed professional contract with Lyn that had BOTH Shittu and Obi's signature on it. This contract would have to exist for Lyn to be the contractual "owner" of Obi and therefore the sole party with the right to sell him to Man In.

So if in fact Anderson forged that page, well it makes sense, since it would not do him any good to have a page with only Obi's signature on it, for that contract.

However, for Obi to sign a Man U contract, well Shittu's signature wasnt needed. And Anderson didnt need to forge Obi's signature - Obi willingly signed that contract (the court did not dispute this), then went to the press conference all smiles, where he gladly posed with a Man U shirt.

But hey, dey there with your "opinion" when you dont even know the basic facts. It if you ask me, it is scary that some people have the right to vote. No wonder George Bush is in the white house and McCain is on tap.

Dude, you prove my point. Where did I mention ANYTHING I MEAN ANYTHING about the contract with Man U? Where did any of the court proceedings mention ANYTHING I MEAN ANYTHING about the contract with Man U? What I'm talking about is the falsification of OBI's AND SHITTU's signatures on the document that now made him Lyn's property at the age of 18. How can he be in cOhoots with Anderson and Morgan still has to forge his signature on that document? If you tell me you have proof that he ONLY forged Shittu's signature, then ok fine I'm off base, but I'm under the impression that he forged both Shittu's and Mikel's signatures. In that case what your saying doesn't make a lick of sense.

[maceo4]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

[FrostyZ]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

[maceo4]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

But Man U paid a transfer fee to Lyn assuming that they had his papers/signature right? If thats the case then the contract was signed under false pretenses and therefore should be null and void.

[erikga]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

But Man U paid a transfer fee to Lyn assuming that they had his papers/signature right? If thats the case then the contract was signed under false pretenses and therefore should be null and void.

No, the money paid to Lyn was on the basis of the Tripartite agreement between ManU, Lyn and Chelsea, not on the basis of the forged contract.

Erik G

[maceo4]

I dont see what I have said that was porven wrong. Andserson is not accused of forging a signature on Obi's Man I contract - he was accused of forging a signature on a contract that would allow Obi to sign for Man U.

Thus proving the point I have held from day 1: that at some point Obi defected from Shittu and was in cahoots with Morgan Anderson.

Those of you who wish to remain in denial about that fact can continue. You can maybe fool some of the sheep here, but you are not fooling me, that is for sure. Obi was in on this. Nobody forced him to defect to Man U.

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

But Man U paid a transfer fee to Lyn assuming that they had his papers/signature right? If thats the case then the contract was signed under false pretenses and therefore should be null and void.

No, the money paid to Lyn was on the basis of the Tripartite agreement between ManU, Lyn and Chelsea, not on the basis of the forged contract.

Erik G

So what did Morgan gain by forging Mikel's and Shittu's signature?

[erikga]

It has never occurred to you that Obi maybe wasn't privy to what was going on and simply trusted what Morgan told him?

Also, what your saying doesn't even make sense, if Mikel was in cohoots with him, why would Morgan need to forge Mikel's signature?

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

But Man U paid a transfer fee to Lyn assuming that they had his papers/signature right? If thats the case then the contract was signed under false pretenses and therefore should be null and void.

No, the money paid to Lyn was on the basis of the Tripartite agreement between ManU, Lyn and Chelsea, not on the basis of the forged contract.

Erik G

So what did Morgan gain by forging Mikel's and Shittu's signature?

There is som indication that the purpose of the forgery was more to get a license for Mikel to play in the Norwegian Premier League, more than anything else. If you read the actual text of the judgement in the case, that is what the judge said...

Erik G

[maceo4]

Obi willingly signed for Man United, and he was pictured smiling in contentment after he believed he had become a Man United player. He knew what he was doing.

That was what Ziontrain was saying (I remember saying the same thing, and my view remains unchanged).

Whether Morgan forged the agreement that gave Lyn ownership of Mikel's registration is another matter (that was an attempt to chance Shittu because he knew Shittu did not have legal ownership of Mikel's registration).
.

What do you mean by thats another matter? If thats the case (which the courts just found Morgan guilty of) then the Man U contract is null and void because it was signed under false pretenses.

If Mikel didn't have contract with Lyn he was free to sign with whoever he liked, wasn't he. The Man U contract would then still be valid.

But Man U paid a transfer fee to Lyn assuming that they had his papers/signature right? If thats the case then the contract was signed under false pretenses and therefore should be null and void.

No, the money paid to Lyn was on the basis of the Tripartite agreement between ManU, Lyn and Chelsea, not on the basis of the forged contract.

Erik G

So what did Morgan gain by forging Mikel's and Shittu's signature?

There is som indication that the purpose of the forgery was more to get a license for Mikel to play in the Norwegian Premier League, more than anything else. If you read the actual text of the judgement in the case, that is what the judge said...

Erik G

So you want me to believe that the forgery had nothing to do with the Manure transfer? Shittu was Mikel's agent, why wasn't he informed about and present for the Manure signing? If the forgery was simply to have him play in the Norwegian league why would Shittu be against that? Why wouldn't he willingly sign that? And wasn't Mikel already playing in the Norwegian league pre his 18th b-day? What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

[erikga]

mace04 wrote:

So you want me to believe that the forgery had nothing to do with the Manure transfer? Shittu was Mikel's agent, why wasn't he informed about and present for the Manure signing? If the forgery was simply to have him play in the Norwegian league why would Shittu be against that? Why wouldn't he willingly sign that? And wasn't Mikel already playing in the Norwegian league pre his 18th b-day? What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

I'll try to explain as clearly as I can - without defending Morgan and without being too pedantic. But there nuances that need to be explained.

Morgan's motivation for the forgery seems not primarily to have been the wish to transfer Mikel to ManU, but to get Mikel a license to play in the TL (the Norwegian Premier League).

The ManU situation came up a month later.

It was in everybody's interest to get Mikel to play in the TL asap so that he could be picked to play for his country and thus get the work and residency permit for the UK - Lyn, Mikel himself and his agents. The forgery was more an expediency than a crime (but of course he was breaking the law by doing so....)

The sentence below is a direct quote from the official, published transcript of the Morgan judgment.

Retten er også overbevist om at tiltalte gjorde dette for å oppnå et uberettiget krav på spillelisens for Mikel som profesjonell fotballspiller.

I am sorry it is in Norwegian, but a rough translation would be:

The court is convinced that the accused(Morgan Andersen) did this (the forgery) to get an otherwise unobtainable player license for Mikel as a professional football player.

Anyway, Lyn had the rights to Mikel anyway, by virtue of the amateur contract signed in September the year before, counter-signed by Mikel's father and Shittu("as guardian"). Even the infamous agent, Rune Hauge admitted that Lyn had the rights to Mikel during the trial.

The reason Shittu was not present during the ManU signing is very simple; Mikel did not want him to...

Why? This was never fully explored during the trial, but I think we have an indication in what Jim Solbakken testified under oath during the trial. (Jim Solbakken is Ole Gunnar Solskjær's agent and manager and was involved in the ManU transfer from the ManU side)

He said that Mikel begged ManU to pay out the transfer fee immediately "(...) so that he could protect his family in Nigeria." In other words, Mikel wanted to get away from the hold SEM/Jerome Anderson had on him...

Erik G

[Cellular]

Bored...

[green4life]

Good old days of CE when we would agree to disagree without being overly personal. A lot of the contributors to this classic thread have sadly moved on. Anyway, stay safe out there everyone.

[Bigpokey24]

While this topic rages on and Shittu and Obi keep insisting on Chelsea, nobody is thinking about where Obi would play. Chelsea already has Lampard, Essien, Makelele and Joe Cole in the middle of the Park, will Obi be able to fight his way to a starting spot should be the question.

I don't think so but again the question is, is it healthy for him to be playing 90mins in the EPL for a big club at his age ??
They almost always burn out.

Chelsea have no plans to use Obi immediately. They were planning to loan him out to somewhere in Europe for probably about a year or two until he gets the 75% required games for Nigeria.

Man U on the other hand need Obi immediately, whih is why I think he should just settle for Old Trafford. For me, the most irritating thing is that the matter can easily be resolved by all the parties concerned.

All Alex Ferguson has to do is pick up the phone to Jose Mouriniho and offer to pay back everything Chelsea has spent on the boy so far. He can then offer Chelsea first choice if they ever plan to sell the boy in the future for a token amount.

Man U know they played a fast one here. If they wanted to be straight, they could have reached a deal with Chelsea to have Obi on loan.

BS

[wanaj0]

While this topic rages on and Shittu and Obi keep insisting on Chelsea, nobody is thinking about where Obi would play. Chelsea already has Lampard, Essien, Makelele and Joe Cole in the middle of the Park, will Obi be able to fight his way to a starting spot should be the question.

I don't think so but again the question is, is it healthy for him to be playing 90mins in the EPL for a big club at his age ??
They almost always burn out.

Chelsea have no plans to use Obi immediately. They were planning to loan him out to somewhere in Europe for probably about a year or two until he gets the 75% required games for Nigeria.

Man U on the other hand need Obi immediately, whih is why I think he should just settle for Old Trafford. For me, the most irritating thing is that the matter can easily be resolved by all the parties concerned.

All Alex Ferguson has to do is pick up the phone to Jose Mouriniho and offer to pay back everything Chelsea has spent on the boy so far. He can then offer Chelsea first choice if they ever plan to sell the boy in the future for a token amount.

Man U know they played a fast one here. If they wanted to be straight, they could have reached a deal with Chelsea to have Obi on loan.

BS

Ayo Akinfe yearning opaks since 4BC.