The WC & African Naivety: A Case Study of Cameroon

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The WC & African Naivety: A Case Study of Cameroon

Post by txj »

African teams are often adjudged naïve at the highest levels of the game, and not without reason, as Cameroon aptly demonstrates below, with a team of vastly superior quality (especially in attack and midfield), but naively, (if not stupidly) playing into the hands of a cynical German team, whose defined path to victory lay in first winding up the opponent, destabilizing her and preventing the establishment of a rhythm, thus forcing it to play in patches.
FIFA SEOUL, 12 June – Germany’s 2-0 victory over Cameroon on 11 June saw a record-setting 16 cautions issued, making it the highest number of cautions issued in a single match in FIFA World Cup history. Earlier on the same day, the 3-3 draw between Senegal and Uruguay witnessed 12 cautions, the second highest number in the finals.
First Half
1’. Shot Jancker
2’. Foul Wome on Schneider
6’. Foul Frings on Lauren
Geremi FK
8’. Foul. Frings on Foe
8’. Foul. Foe- two-footed challenge. YC
9’. Foul. Jancker on Song. High foot. YC
10’. Foul. Hamman on Foe
11’. Foul. Lauren on Ballack
12’. Zeige writhes in pain. Clash with Foe
13’. Shot on goal. Mboma
14’. Olembe thru on goal; Khan puts him off…
Winnie Schaeffer (CMR coach)
(On the decisive moment of the match): “There was a major chance for us to score, but Salomon Olembe didn't and it’s always very difficult to beat Oliver Kahn, that's the greatest problem.
14’. Foul. Frings on Tchato
15’. Khan escapes a near goal!
16’. Foe on Jancker
18’. Foul. Mboma on Ramelow
18’. Foul. Ramelow on Lauren
19’. Foul. Wome on Schneider
20’. Foul. Frings on Olembe
21’. Pushing and shoving. Clash btw Klose and Song

22’. Shot. Schneider
25’. Germany pouring fwd. Shot Klose. Blocked.

25’. Foul. Zeige on Geremi
26’. Foul. Metzelder on Mboma
27’. Great FK. Wome. Khan parries.
28’. Shot. Song
29’. Foul. Metzelder on Mboma.
29’. Miss. Song from 8yds!
29’. Foul. Hamman on Foe. YC
31’. Foul. Ballack on Lauren. YC
33’. Foul. Etoo on Hamman
35’. Foul. Wome on Klose
36’. Clash. Game gets nasty
36’. Zeige FK. Alioum. Brilliant save
37’. Foul. Jancker on Geremi
37’. Foul. Ramelow on Etoo. YC
38’. FK. Geremi
40’. Foul. Ramelow on Etoo. RC
41’. FK. Mboma. Corner kick
42’. Clash. Khan on Song.
43’. Clash. Song retaliates. YCs
43’. Foul. Kalla on Metzelder
43’. Foul. Jancker on Foe
44’. Foul. Tchato on Klose. YC
44’. FK. Klose comes close
45’. Foul. Foe on Jancker
46’. Foul. Zeige on Geremi
47’. Foul. Frings on Mboma
48’. End of a very hot-tempered half

First Half Stats.

Cameroon Germany
Goals 0 0
Shots 4 5
Shots on goal 2 1
Fouls committed 10 19
Cautions 3 6
Expulsions 0 1
Ball possession 50% 50%

Heading into the half-time interval, Germany were very frustrated, having just seen Carsten Ramelow sent off and four others cautioned. But, the break seemed to calm the Germans as they came out and scored within the first five minutes of the second half. With Bode running into the penalty area, Klose spotted him and played a perfect pass between two Cameroon defenders into the forward’s path. Bode easily knocked a left-footed shot past goalkeeper Boukar Alioum.
2nd Half.
46’. Substitution. Jancker out; Bode in
47’. Not the most dynamic start as Cameroon stroke the ball around the park.
47’. CK. Cameroon
48’. Foul. Song on Bode
49’. Attack. CMR. Song can’t find Etoo
49’. Foul. Klose on Foe
50’. Goal. Bode
“It was not just the goal, but how the goal was created,” said Germany coach Rudi Voeller after the match. “Miroslav Klose kept possession, brilliantly kept the ball and played a brilliant pass that cut the defence.”
52’. Possession; CMR. Despite attractive passing game, unable to press home numerical advantage.
53’. Substitution (tactical). Tchato out; Suffo in
54’. Foul. Suffo on Zeige
54’. Foul. Etoo on Linke
56’. Foul. Metzelder on Mboma
56’. FK. Geremi.
57’. Caution. Geremi. Time-wasting! YC
58’. Foul. Olembe on Schneider. YC
60’. Foul. Suffo. YC
62’. Stopped in MF. Hamman another CMR attack!
63’. Foul. Metzelder on Mboma
63’. FK. Geremi. Blocked
64’. Sub. Olembe-out, Ngom Kome-in
66’. Foul. Schneider on Kome
66’. FK. Geremi. Blocked
67’. GER. Superb in MF and DF, despite not having much possession
68’. Foul. Frings on Kome
69’. FK. Geremi. Blocked
71’. GER. Content to absorb pressure and counterattack
71’. Foul. Song on Klose
72’. Foul. Ziege on Lauren
72’. FK. Geremi. Saved
73’. Shot. Luren
73’. Shot. Mboma
74’. Foul. Frings on Kome. 3rd time in 2HLF!
74’. FK. Geremi. Blocked
75’. Foul. Kalla on Linke
77’. Foul. Hamman on Suffo
78’. Brutal Foul. Suffo on Ballack. YC; RC
Just after Patrick Suffo was sent off and the teams were even at 10 men apiece, Germany went back to the attack, and Michael Ballack played a ball from outside the penalty area across to Klose 10 metres out at the back post. Klose bounced a header past Alioum in the 79th minute to break the tie for the Golden Shoe race established earlier Tuesday by Jon Dahl Tomasson of Denmark. Each of Klose’s goals in the tournament has come from his head.
79’. FK. Ballack
80’. Goal. Klose!
80’. Sub. Schneider- out; Geremies- in. (hatches battened down!)
81’. Sub. Mboma-out; Job-in
81’. Foul. Lauren on Hamman. YC
82’. Foul. Ballack on Foe
83’. Foul. Hamman on Etoo
83’. FK. Wome
84’. Song. Lovely play sets up half chance. Cleared. Hamman
84’. Foul. Job on Metzelder
84’. Sub. Klose-out; Neuville-in
87’. Foul. Wome on Jeremies
88’. GER. Happy to keep possession….
88’. Shot. Ballack. Alioum saves
88’. Foul. Etoo on Metzelder
90’. Etoo. Half chance. Slips…
90’. Offside. Job
91’. Shot. Jeremies. CK
92’. Shot. Frings
93’. Game over


POST MATCH COMMENTS

Rudi Voeller (GER coach)
(On how he rates the Cameroon team): “Cameroon were the dominating team, they have the better forwards with immense pace. This made us nervous, but after we went into the lead we dominated the match.”

(On the match): “At the beginning we had serious problems, because they put tremendous pressure on us, and as we went into the match as favourites, we just couldn't deal with that. But strangely enough, when we went a man down, and changed our tactical formation, things changed for us.”

(On how sweaty he looked after the match): “It had nothing to do with how I felt out there - it is because of these television studio lights!”

Winnie Schaeffer (CMR coach)
(On the decisive moment of the match): “There was a major chance for us to score, but Salomon Olembe didn't and it’s always very difficult to beat Oliver Kahn, that's the greatest problem. I think the decisive moment was the red card.”

(On the change of the match after Carsten Ramelow was sent off): “I pointed out to my players that we had to play more over the wings. It had to be visible to everybody that we were one man up, but they didn't really heed that advice...we were playing too much through the middle and lost possession too early and that was how the first goal of the Germans came about. I told my players they had to work more, because 10 players on the field instead of 11 tend to grow wings as they say...Cameroon did it at the Olympic Games...but it is something that happens in the head.”

(On whether he would do anything different): “I don't think I would have made anything different at this match, but I would have strived by all possible means to arrive on time to Japan for the first game. The first game (1-1 with Ireland) we should have won...my boys, I think, would have deserved to win it. They prepared for this for the last four years and it was an immense pity that they didn't win against Ireland for sheer lack of acclimatisation.”

(On what he said to the team after the match in the dressing room): “Normally the locker room is a sanctuary and I don't let on what I say, but this time I make an exception. I thanked my players, I thought it was a great work – they didn't deserve to go out this way, but it was not to be. And I didn't want the last match to be the decisive game, but that is how it happened. I told them to keep their chin up – he only drowns who stays in water, so they have to crawl out of the water.”

Jacques Songoo (CMR goalkeeper)
(On his fourth World Cup and how he saw the three matches): “We needed more chances. It was a deception to retire after the first rounds. Everybody knew our tactics. We continued to play the same way.”


FINAL STATISTICS: CMR: GER

Goals: 0 2
Shots: 6 11
Shots on Goal: 4 5
Fouls committed: 22 31
Cautions: 8 8
Expulsions: 1 1
Corner kicks: 4 5
Penalty kicks: 0 0
Offsides: 4 0
Possession: 56% 44%

Source of statistics:
http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/t/t/ger.html


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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by kongi the emir »

I have long been talking about the impact psychology has in team sports and how african teams are always at a psychological disadvantage. African generally believe that if they have enough talent and time to practice they have a CHANCE to win but history has proves that we have never come close to rubbing shoulders with giants when all is at stake. Main reaching the WC semis. The game you just feature, Eng V Cam 90, Nig vs Italy & Arg 94 and even the WYC 05 are all examples of how we are lacking in the mental aspects of the game. Note that the german approach was simple. The would not allow cameroun to ply their game period. They will engage u in any other way but the way u know how to. The sad thing is that till today there is not one african side that can recover if they are denied their game plan, none.

For example. Overcrowding the midfield and crossing beat the eagles in every WC we've ever being to. Guess what!!! It still beats us today.
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Post by Scipio Africanus »

kongi the emir wrote:I have long been talking about the impact psychology has in team sports and how african teams are always at a psychological disadvantage. African generally believe that if they have enough talent and time to practice they have a CHANCE to win but history has proves that we have never come close to rubbing shoulders with giants when all is at stake. Main reaching the WC semis. The game you just feature, Eng V Cam 90, Nig vs Italy & Arg 94 and even the WYC 05 are all examples of how we are lacking in the mental aspects of the game. Note that the german approach was simple. The would not allow cameroun to ply their game period. They will engage u in any other way but the way u know how to. The sad thing is that till today there is not one african side that can recover if they are denied their game plan, none.

For example. Overcrowding the midfield and crossing beat the eagles in every WC we've ever being to. Guess what!!! It still beats us today.
That strategy will beat most teams. That is why I advocated that African teams play 4-5-1. It worked very well for Senegal. We have to stop giving out freebies.

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Post by txj »

Watching the game again, for me, and sorry to say this, it came down to the thick headedness and downright stupidity of the Cameroonian players. It was so glaring to see what the Germans were doing, especially Torsten Frings!

kongi the emir wrote:I have long been talking about the impact psychology has in team sports and how african teams are always at a psychological disadvantage. African generally believe that if they have enough talent and time to practice they have a CHANCE to win but history has proves that we have never come close to rubbing shoulders with giants when all is at stake. Main reaching the WC semis. The game you just feature, Eng V Cam 90, Nig vs Italy & Arg 94 and even the WYC 05 are all examples of how we are lacking in the mental aspects of the game. Note that the german approach was simple. The would not allow cameroun to ply their game period. They will engage u in any other way but the way u know how to. The sad thing is that till today there is not one african side that can recover if they are denied their game plan, none.

For example. Overcrowding the midfield and crossing beat the eagles in every WC we've ever being to. Guess what!!! It still beats us today.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by northAfrican »

This is a very serious and much talked about topic. There may be a point to be made but it really is quite difficult. To say that African teams have a mental disadvantage would be easily seen as sweeping. There are many examples of African victories that can equally be explained as mental toughness. Even in the case of this game for Cameroon, one can support a counterpoint by saying that they did play in the hands of the Germans and did get frustrated but that is mostly because they needed a win and Germany did not. The situation therefore favoured this choice of strategy for Germany and that is hardly worthy of praise. I would hardly call the German tactics superior. Frustrating opponents is an old tactic that, while it paid off in this case, may not always work. It is also quite commonly chosen by teams that only need a tie and do have a worry about opening the game up.
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Post by txj »

On the contrary it was a balanced group, and up until the last game only the Saudis were out of it.
African teams do not all have mental disadvantage, and that is not my point. It is about naivety; tactical naivety, and my example is specific of Cameroon in THIS game, against an opponent that they were superior to in more departments of the game.
No one tactic works all the time, but what is important is that this one worked this time, and that the Cameroonians could have, and should have known better. Every team that files out on the field of play seeks to maximize whatever advantage it can wrestle from the opponent, whether such a team needs to win or avoid a defeat.

northAfrican wrote:This is a very serious and much talked about topic. There may be a point to be made but it really is quite difficult. To say that African teams have a mental disadvantage would be easily seen as sweeping. There are many examples of African victories that can equally be explained as mental toughness. Even in the case of this game for Cameroon, one can support a counterpoint by saying that they did play in the hands of the Germans and did get frustrated but that is mostly because they needed a win and Germany did not. The situation therefore favoured this choice of strategy for Germany and that is hardly worthy of praise. I would hardly call the German tactics superior. Frustrating opponents is an old tactic that, while it paid off in this case, may not always work. It is also quite commonly chosen by teams that only need a tie and do have a worry about opening the game up.
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by lagos777 »

TXJ, how would you describe Senegals game against France in Japkor ?
Mike Ditka quote :
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Post by Cristao »

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, how would you describe Senegals game against France in Japkor ?
or Nigeria 4 Brazil 3 .. Nigeria 3 Argentina 2 .. Nigeria vs Holland WYC???

I dont buy the mental weakness..
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Post by txj »

Masterful counterattacking tactics by the Senegalese, repeatedly overpowering France in the MF and playing to their strength via a power game...

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, how would you describe Senegals game against France in Japkor ?
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by txj »

I spoke about naivety, not mental weakness...and while this may not pertain to all African teams, and in all games involving African teams, my point is that on too many ocassions, African teams have exhibited naivety.


Cristao wrote:
lagos777 wrote:TXJ, how would you describe Senegals game against France in Japkor ?
or Nigeria 4 Brazil 3 .. Nigeria 3 Argentina 2 .. Nigeria vs Holland WYC???

I dont buy the mental weakness..
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by lagos777 »

TXJ, the greeks won Eurocup by negating other teams play negatively. Were all the other Euro teams naive ?
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"I didn't say it in those general terms but I said it like that".
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Post by Scipio Africanus »

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, the greeks won Eurocup by negating other teams play negatively. Were all the other Euro teams naive ?
Yes. Greece tried that nonsense against Brazil at the Confed cup and promptly collected 4-0.

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Post by YUJAM »

Too much generalizations here but TXJ make some fair arguments.

I think one of the things African teams lacked in past is tactical discipline. This has changed over the years though with more local coaches being exposed to the 'school of tactics'. Ditto for the players, many of them play abroad. But even local teams have become more aware. This was to be expected though. Africans also had to learn a game from a tactical perspective because we started much later than everyone else.

Mental toughness was an issue too. Nigeria, Morocco, Senegal and sometimes the S Africans being notable exceptions. The difference being that we don't consider anyone our superior simply because of where they are from. To us, it is death before dishonor and this is reflected on the field of play too.

I do think this has changed though. Teams are more difficult to rile up even tho I consider this tactic used by Euro teams against African teams to be completely disgusting and unfair.

Let me just add this whole fragile mental state African teams were once known for is not only an African phenomenon. Argentina, and other S American teams are also known for mental breakdowns.[/code]
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Post by Scipio Africanus »

YUJAM wrote:Too much generalizations here but TXJ make some fair arguments.

I think one of the things African teams lacked in past is tactical discipline. This has changed over the years though with more local coaches being exposed to the 'school of tactics'. Ditto for the players, many of them play abroad. But even local teams have become more aware. This was to be expected though. Africans also had to learn a game from a tactical perspective because we started much later than everyone else.

Mental toughness was an issue too. Nigeria, Morocco, Senegal and sometimes the S Africans being notable exceptions. I do think this has changed though. Teams are more difficult to rile up even tho I consider this tactic used by Euro teams against African teams to be completely disgusting and unfair.

Let me just add this whole fragile mental state African teams were once known for is not only an African phenomenon. Argentina, and other S American teams are also known for mental breakdowns.[/code]
Everybody has broken down mentally at some point. Germany against Croatia in '98, England against Brazil in the last WC, Brazil against France in '98, zzzzzzzzzzzzItaly against Croatia and S. Korea in the last WC etc etc ...

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First, it is a very simplistic view of Greek football at the Euros. The Greeks played a tight game and beat their opponents fair and square...
Second, the German game against Cameroon was vastly different from that of Greece; it was plain cynical, consisting of winding up the opponent thru repeated fouling as my post aptly demonstrates. In the process, they denied CMR a chance to establish a rhythym, with the clear knowledge that a fluent playing IL team in Japan would've beaten them...
The naivety lay in not seeing the obvious, even after this was pointed out at half time, for a team of experienced professionals...

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, the greeks won Eurocup by negating other teams play negatively. Were all the other Euro teams naive ?
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by txj »

Yes everyone breaks down mentally at some point, but that is not the point! It is about tactical naivety!!!!!!!!
Look at my post; see the repeated fouling, at some point three in a row by Frings on Kome!


Scipio Africanus wrote:
YUJAM wrote:Too much generalizations here but TXJ make some fair arguments.

I think one of the things African teams lacked in past is tactical discipline. This has changed over the years though with more local coaches being exposed to the 'school of tactics'. Ditto for the players, many of them play abroad. But even local teams have become more aware. This was to be expected though. Africans also had to learn a game from a tactical perspective because we started much later than everyone else.

Mental toughness was an issue too. Nigeria, Morocco, Senegal and sometimes the S Africans being notable exceptions. I do think this has changed though. Teams are more difficult to rile up even tho I consider this tactic used by Euro teams against African teams to be completely disgusting and unfair.

Let me just add this whole fragile mental state African teams were once known for is not only an African phenomenon. Argentina, and other S American teams are also known for mental breakdowns.[/code]
Everybody has broken down mentally at some point. Germany against Croatia in '98, England against Brazil in the last WC, Brazil against France in '98, zzzzzzzzzzzzItaly against Croatia and S. Korea in the last WC etc etc ...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by lagos777 »

txj wrote:First, it is a very simplistic view of Greek football at the Euros. The Greeks played a tight game and beat their opponents fair and square...
Second, the German game against Cameroon was vastly different from that of Greece; it was plain cynical, consisting of winding up the opponent thru repeated fouling as my post aptly demonstrates. In the process, they denied CMR a chance to establish a rhythym, with the clear knowledge that a fluent playing IL team in Japan would've beaten them...
The naivety lay in not seeing the obvious, even after this was pointed out at half time, for a team of experienced professionals...

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, the greeks won Eurocup by negating other teams play negatively. Were all the other Euro teams naive ?
Proses like yours always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. What does the word naive mean ? Do you surely believe that the Cameroonians did not figure out the German game plan ?
Falling for negative play is not an African team, it happens to all teams. The flip side is that when we try and play that kinda of crap i.e Cameroon, the roles are reversed and we are called bushmen and rough, not cynical. If Frings were Cameroonian, he would have been sent off. I still remember all the niggling fouls and tackles Albertini threw around in 94'. You see the Argentines dive, moan and cry prn, let any African side do that and it's yellow card galore for showmanship. #$%$* pleez.
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Post by kongi the emir »

When you deny a team the chance to execute its game plan that team has to dig deeper to find an answer to your strategy. African teams often fall apart when they have to go plan B. If u look at all the games big African teams have won have won at the WC mainly Nigvs Spain, Senvs France, etc you'll find that the opponents allowed us to play our style and lost out. However, if u look at the ones we've lost you'll find that the opponents put their foot down right from the get go. Nig vs Den is a prome example. As soon as the opening whistle blew the danes made one thing clear and that was that they were going to own the MD no matter what. By the time we found an answer we were 4 doals down.
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Post by txj »

Naive in this sense refers to inability to figure out the opponents tactic by responding adequately. If they did, how did they end up losing in the manner they did, despite posessing a superior team, as even the German coach admitted?
The issue ultimately is what you do in response to an opponents tactic. The Germans employed similar tactics in 1978 against Croatia, but the latter kept their heads, remained professional and won by 3-0!
It is the inability of the IL to avoid being riled up by an obviously cynical and less endowed opponent that is naive. There is rough, or physical, then there is cynical- deliberate use of rough tactics to frustrate a superior opponent.


lagos777 wrote:
txj wrote:First, it is a very simplistic view of Greek football at the Euros. The Greeks played a tight game and beat their opponents fair and square...
Second, the German game against Cameroon was vastly different from that of Greece; it was plain cynical, consisting of winding up the opponent thru repeated fouling as my post aptly demonstrates. In the process, they denied CMR a chance to establish a rhythym, with the clear knowledge that a fluent playing IL team in Japan would've beaten them...
The naivety lay in not seeing the obvious, even after this was pointed out at half time, for a team of experienced professionals...

lagos777 wrote:TXJ, the greeks won Eurocup by negating other teams play negatively. Were all the other Euro teams naive ?
Proses like yours always leave a bitter taste in my mouth. What does the word naive mean ? Do you surely believe that the Cameroonians did not figure out the German game plan ?
Falling for negative play is not an African team, it happens to all teams. The flip side is that when we try and play that kinda of crap i.e Cameroon, the roles are reversed and we are called bushmen and rough, not cynical. If Frings were Cameroonian, he would have been sent off. I still remember all the niggling fouls and tackles Albertini threw around in 94'. You see the Argentines dive, moan and cry prn, let any African side do that and it's yellow card galore for showmanship. #$%$* pleez.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Post by northAfrican »

txj,
You have obviously gotten people talking. So why don't I talk to you too. You seem like a guy who knows what happened in which game. Remember the Denmark-Senegal game. Well the Danes were trying very hard to provoke the Senegalese and it did not work. That bald stocky guy who plays in the premiereship, I forgot his forgettable name, was at it constantly. They stepped on a Senegalese player while he was down and were constantly mouthing Diao off. And then they lead. Metsu brings on two more strikers and the Senegalese players immediately get the idea and the following half hour or so we see the Danes in their red shirts running around scared and confused and hopelessly trying to not concede a bucket of goals. Their faces told the story. Now that was keeping your cool and refusing to be provoked and a demonstration of the opposite of what you said about Cameroon ( Note I am not defending Cameroon). I would call this kind of opposite behaviour "Strategic awareness". The Senegalese knew, all of them, that the edge to their game is physicality and boundless attack in fluid formations. In fact they played a different formation in every game.

At least that is an example I can justifiably interpret to demonstrate the existence of the opposite trait in this one instant. Not to clinch an argument, because I think there is a germ of truth in what you say, but just to provide scope to the applicability of your charge againt African teams in general.

I would like to also know of how you would describe Cameroon's tactics against Argentina in 1990. How did they manage to rob them of their normal game and neutralize Maradona. I am not quizing you here, I just think that Cameroon there showed another trait that the antithesis of tactical naivity.

If you got time we can probably find more examples.
Mbape
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Post by Mbape »

txj wrote:Watching the game again, for me, and sorry to say this, it came down to the thick headedness and downright stupidity of the Cameroonian players. It was so glaring to see what the Germans were doing, especially Torsten Frings!

kongi the emir wrote:I have long been talking about the impact psychology has in team sports and how african teams are always at a psychological disadvantage. African generally believe that if they have enough talent and time to practice they have a CHANCE to win but history has proves that we have never come close to rubbing shoulders with giants when all is at stake. Main reaching the WC semis. The game you just feature, Eng V Cam 90, Nig vs Italy & Arg 94 and even the WYC 05 are all examples of how we are lacking in the mental aspects of the game. Note that the german approach was simple. The would not allow cameroun to ply their game period. They will engage u in any other way but the way u know how to. The sad thing is that till today there is not one african side that can recover if they are denied their game plan, none.

For example. Overcrowding the midfield and crossing beat the eagles in every WC we've ever being to. Guess what!!! It still beats us today.
Wow, its amazing how quick Africans are to call other Africans stupid. It would have been much better to say the game plan was stupid, rather than that the players were. This is overanalyzing one game really. As I read this analysis it occurred to me that a similar one could be made about Cameroon vs. Argentina, 1990. Lots of fouls early by Cameroon that completely frustrated the free flow style of a much superior Argie attack. Cameroon went down 2 men, played a brilliant counter-attacking game that earned a famous victory. No one would dare call that Argie team stupid or tactically naive, and for good reason (that term seems to be reserved for black African teams). There is also Senegal vs. France, another brilliantly executed plan by an African team to earn a scintillating upset against the odds, but it appears quite logical not to ascribe stupidity to the French side.

Get my drift?

Cameroon may
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Post by Enugu II »

Mbape wrote:
txj wrote:Watching the game again, for me, and sorry to say this, it came down to the thick headedness and downright stupidity of the Cameroonian players. It was so glaring to see what the Germans were doing, especially Torsten Frings!

kongi the emir wrote:I have long been talking about the impact psychology has in team sports and how african teams are always at a psychological disadvantage. African generally believe that if they have enough talent and time to practice they have a CHANCE to win but history has proves that we have never come close to rubbing shoulders with giants when all is at stake. Main reaching the WC semis. The game you just feature, Eng V Cam 90, Nig vs Italy & Arg 94 and even the WYC 05 are all examples of how we are lacking in the mental aspects of the game. Note that the german approach was simple. The would not allow cameroun to ply their game period. They will engage u in any other way but the way u know how to. The sad thing is that till today there is not one african side that can recover if they are denied their game plan, none.

For example. Overcrowding the midfield and crossing beat the eagles in every WC we've ever being to. Guess what!!! It still beats us today.
Wow, its amazing how quick Africans are to call other Africans stupid. It would have been much better to say the game plan was stupid, rather than that the players were. This is overanalyzing one game really. As I read this analysis it occurred to me that a similar one could be made about Cameroon vs. Argentina, 1990. Lots of fouls early by Cameroon that completely frustrated the free flow style of a much superior Argie attack. Cameroon went down 2 men, played a brilliant counter-attacking game that earned a famous victory. No one would dare call that Argie team stupid or tactically naive, and for good reason (that term seems to be reserved for black African teams). There is also Senegal vs. France, another brilliantly executed plan by an African team to earn a scintillating upset against the odds, but it appears quite logical not to ascribe stupidity to the French side.

Get my drift?

Cameroon may

Nothing more needs to be added. I the post and was frankly baffled by the restatement of an Euro-commentators' cliche that smack of prejudice. This, I must say, was a major problem for me. These cliches often cannot pass a simple test such as demonstrated quite convincingly by Mbape, above. African naivety? Geez we can all point to several examples of non-African teams that exhibit what Euros call naivety but as Mbape mentions you will hardly hear that word associated with an Euro team.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Post by abakwa »

Mbappe,

I would have to disagree with you. I think txj hit the dagger on the money. When you talk of teams it includes coaches and the players. We all know Schaefer could not read a game and as a player at that level you gotta have enough sense to try something else when what you are doing is not getting any returns.

Cameroon is not the only team that has beaten Argentina by taking them out of their rythm. England did it to them in 2002. Greece had no chance against Brazil at the Conferations cup becuase Brazil's attack is dynamic. The Brazilians were attacking down the flanks with Gilberto & Cincinho from the full back position while Ribinho and Ronaldinho often difted to the flanks creating space in the middle. 4-5-1 is not always the answer.

You look at Cameroon vs Ireland, it was the same thing as Cameroon vs Germany only the Germans executed better than the Irish. Both Germany and Ireland realized we possed no real danger with our pacy front men as we seldom try to get the ball behind the defense or split the defense with a pass so they had no need to play an offside trap. It is the same philosophy the Turks used to eliminate Senegal. The Turks knew they could not match Diouf & Camara's speed or slow down Fadiga so they just made sure they outnumbered the Senegalese on the resulting cross.
When African teams start trying to play in their strikers in space behind the defense rather than get the ball in their feet, we will win some big games.

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