Nigeria has never got its central midfield strategy right

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Post by omotori »

Lets put things in percpective. the notion that 3-5-2 is a more offensive formation than 4-4-2 is wrong. Brazil played 3-5-2 (using 2 wing-backs) to stiffen their defence. And once they establish their defence, they can use their wing-backs to bolster their offence.

But the key to Brazils 3-5-2 are Cafu & Carlos. Without a pair of wing-backs like these two, you cannot play a Brazillian 3-5-3.

Nigeria has Yobo & Cele/Udeze. Yes we can play an adaptation of Brazils 3-5-2. But no Nigerian coach will ever play Yobo at wing-back, at least not until we have a solid replacement for him in the center.

There may be other wingbacks who can fil in on the right but I am not sure if any is good enuff to make 3-5-2 a success for eagus.

I think with the right coach & the right personnel, 3-5-2 could potentially be the best formation for Nigerias style of play. That I can agree. But we just do not have a coach or a good enouth preparation ethic to do so at this point. The personnel issue is actually not too bad. A good coach can take care of that.

The moral of the story is we are stuck with 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-2 or any formation flavor that uses a back-four.

At the very least, we are using wing-backs more & more. Even Abbey looks like a wing-back every now & then. So the foundatio is being laid for 3-5-2 in the future but it may not be very soon.
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

omotori wrote:Lets put things in percpective. the notion that 3-5-2 is a more offensive formation than 4-4-2 is wrong. Brazil played 3-5-2 (using 2 wing-backs) to stiffen their defence. And once they establish their defence, they can use their wing-backs to bolster their offence.

But the key to Brazils 3-5-2 are Cafu & Carlos. Without a pair of wing-backs like these two, you cannot play a Brazillian 3-5-3.

Nigeria has Yobo & Cele/Udeze. Yes we can play an adaptation of Brazils 3-5-2. But no Nigerian coach will ever play Yobo at wing-back, at least not until we have a solid replacement for him in the center.

There may be other wingbacks who can fil in on the right but I am not sure if any is good enuff to make 3-5-2 a success for eagus.

I think with the right coach & the right personnel, 3-5-2 could potentially be the best formation for Nigerias style of play. That I can agree. But we just do not have a coach or a good enouth preparation ethic to do so at this point. The personnel issue is actually not too bad. A good coach can take care of that.

The moral of the story is we are stuck with 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-2 or any formation flavor that uses a back-four.

At the very least, we are using wing-backs more & more. Even Abbey looks like a wing-back every now & then. So the foundatio is being laid for 3-5-2 in the future but it may not be very soon.
I believe that if Glenn Hoddle took over the team tomorrow, he could get them playing 3-5-2 in a disciplined and organised fashion by the time the World Cup qualifiers start in June. Discipline is discipline, whatever formation you play, so all this talk about 3-5-2 requiring more organisation than say 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 does not wash with me.

Can I also point out that this thread is about the central midfield duo. Now whatever formation you play, you still need to get that right. Cameroon played 4-4-2 in Tunisia yet Mbami and Djemba-Djemba got this part of the structure spot in.
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Post by tribalfootball.com »

WATCHED THE CAEROUNIANS PLAY LIVE IN TUNISIA DJEMBA IS NO BETTER THAN OLISEH WHEN WAS IN FORM.THEREFORE COMPARSION OF DJEMBA MBAMI COMIBIBATION DID NOT WORK OUT IN TUNISIA
HOWEVER NIGERIA STILL NEED A FOREIGN COACH
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

tribalfootball.com wrote:WATCHED THE CAEROUNIANS PLAY LIVE IN TUNISIA DJEMBA IS NO BETTER THAN OLISEH WHEN WAS IN FORM.THEREFORE COMPARSION OF DJEMBA MBAMI COMIBIBATION DID NOT WORK OUT IN TUNISIA
HOWEVER NIGERIA STILL NEED A FOREIGN COACH
Please read the thread. It says nothing about individual performances and ability. It is about how your midfield works as a unit!
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Post by Coach »

Maceo, wipe your mouth with toilet tissue once you've finished. When you're ready to leave the playground and make a valid statement, like others, please step forward. Till then, go and read a comic or something.

As for those of you who understand football and its intricacies, your contributions to this debate, provide an intriguing read.

Indeed, I have little or no faith in the midfield of Nigeria at present. Against Morocco in the nations cup, they were out fought and out thought, in all positions by a mediocre side. If they choose to implement such naivety in the world cup, there'll be a sense of de ja vu, as the 'Super' Eagles go crashing to an early exit once again.

I'm a rationlaist, and believe one should compensate his weaknesses with his strengths, this is where the analyst runs into a brick wall. What quality does Nigeria have ahead of most footballing nations? In team sheets of old, we could point to the physical prowess of the line-up. Uche, Yekini, Amokacchi, Eguavon. Nowadays, this physical element seems to be missing. Having been replaced by cat-walk candidates such as Babayaro, more interested in his s-curl than man marking. So what is our strength? How can we compensate for our weaknesses? We have a kings ransom of fleet-footed fellow, who, for some reason, The Big Man chooses to warm the bench.

Perhaps the answer does lie in the tactics. We dont have a Vieira, who could come in and steady the ship. Should the present state be an indication of whats to come, we will be on course for collision with the iceberg of failure.

The suggestion of fielding 2 defensive midfielders, offers more screening to the back four, and could pose as poly-filla to its many cracks and leaks. However, its important that we realise defence is a teams duty, not solely the obligation of players assigned defensive positions.

We could learn alot form looking at the emergent nations in the previous world cup. Turkey were very impressive, and are similar to us, in the sense that we both have a blend of flair, pace and power. However the turks were able to apply their strengths in a more consistent and enforcing nature. The USA employed a very effective pressing game, which, though requiring an extravagant workrate, was very rewarding. The question is, Could the clowns we have implement such initiatives? or are they happy with the 'nothingness' of a bronze medal and empty hopes?
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Post by omotori »

Coach, to anwer your question, Nigerias edge is skill and it is a very significant advantage if we use it properly.

I beleive that everything being equal, no other country in the world can field a team with more overall two-way abilities than Nigeria.
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Post by Coach »

skill or flamboyance? Indeed we have players capable or doing the audacious, but how effective is this. A shimmy here, dummy there, won't leave you closer to the finish line, if the rest of the runners dont know what they're doing.

Then we must also tackle the issue of implementing such skills and advantages into our play. Such innitiatives were disregarded at the nations cup, and more times than not, we looked for the roaring longball, to the nobodies upfront. No doubt, this was the trick up Chukwu's sleeve, to blast the ball down the field as fast as possible, and frustrate the opposition into submission.

What amazes me, is that the fans have the eye to identify Nigeria's strengths and so suggest solutions to our style of play. However, the boardroom bellies, and pirates of the changing rooms, dont seem to be able to identify any attributes which distinguish Nigeria from its counterparts.

Omotori, your evaluation of the 3-5-2 was interesting. I stand firmly in support of the argument against 3-5-2s attacking nature, it doesn't offer more attacking incentives than 4-4-2, and indeed, in the line-up advocated by Ayo, its hard to see where the creativity will come from - Or am i blind to the marvels of Okocha, and his omnipotence. Perhaps this man-mountain will be able to create all the chances required for the forwards. Jay Jay is indeed a talent, but should a side shackle a man-marker to his course, his standing in a game, could be reduced to the peripheries. Not even the great Zidane could fill the capcaity as sole creator for Real Madrid, sharing the spoils with the likes of Figo, Guti and Beckham.

The principles behind fielding 2 defensive midfielders in a 3-5-2, is that it enables you to play wingers offering a more attacking edge. Celtic utilise this system with Lambert and Lennon holding, thus permitting Thompson and Agathe to run the lines with little or no inhibitions. The 3-5-2 is then modified to a more balanced 3-2-3-2.

Ayo, I question the attacking ability of Abbey and Melkham/Udezie, and its important we accept that their attacking naiveties are not fully compensated by their defensive capabilities. Abbey, good ANC and all, is still a rookie on the international scene, and his development is not being speeded up by his employment with lowly-macclesfield? Udezie likewise. Melkham too, has little experience of competitive international football. How many appearances did he make in Japan/Korea? and tournaments before then? Exactly, so expectation, must be coupled with experience in his case. We cannot expect the world from a man, who is still finding his feet.

Perhaps a more attacking trio infront of the 2 holding players would be more applicable. Thus taking the burden of seed bearer off the broad shoulders of Okocha, and sharing the responsibilty with the rest of the team, as should be so.
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

Coach, if the attacking duo of say Martins and Utaka, the playmaker Okocha, the two wing backs and the alternate driving runs of Obodo and Olofinjana is not potent enough in attack, nothing will be.

That is all a team can afford in the name of balance. If it is not enough, then nothing will be.
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Post by Coach »

Ayo, whats your call???

...................Vincent.................

......Yobo.......Isaac (oops)...Udezie

..............Olofinj........Obodo....

Pius................Okocha...........Christina Babayaro

...........Julius...............Martins
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

Pius Ikedia does not have the defensive capabilities to be a wingback. Better alternatives include:

George Abbey
Muyiwa Lawal
Bob Usim

Rather than Okoronkwo, we have:

Joe Enarkarhire
Taribo West
Michael Nnanji
Seyi Olajengbesi

Upfront, I would play Utaka rathern than Aghaowa because John's aboility to run with the balls provides another attacking dimension. Aghahowa does not provide anything Martins does not but Utaka's dribbling ability provides something fresh.
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Post by cic old boy »

I agree with the observations that most modern teams now play with two box-to-box operators in central midfield. The tendency is for one to sit in front of the backfour while the other has more of a license to rove. With total football, these two players could constantly interchange positions.

One of the great Milan sides had Albertini in the holding role, while Rijkaard did the roving. Nigeria’s best combo must have been Lawal/Attuegbu. What was great about Lawal was that he had the skills to match the best. He was a complete footballer – could pass, dribble and worked like a Trojan. Attuegbu ran his heart out for the Eagles and was a constant goal threat.

I wouldn’t include Henry Nwosu in this type of discussion because he was more of an all out attacking midfielder in the mould of a Del Piero.

Our two best options are now Seyi and Obodo. One of Chukwu’s gravest errors was failing to take Obodo to Tunisia. But my concerns over Obodo are with regards to his work rate. To be dominant in that position you need to work and tackle like hell. Obodo’s pluses are his range of passing and a refreshing simplicity about his game – when he plays for Perugia. He has to make sure he brings that sort of discipline to the Eagles and keeps it simple. As Brian Clough once said, “football is a simple game complicated by fools”.

Seyi has the size and work rate to be very effective for us. His passing in Tunisia was shocking, but this is not only down to the player, but also an indictment of the coaching. Decent coaching means team mates providing a variety of options to whoever’s got the ball, especially the option for a simple pass. If Seyi improves on his distribution and uses his physical presence a bit more, I could see us taking over the midfield in games – especially if Seyi is complimented with Obodo.
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

CIC, the next question is how do we get CCC to understand all this? If both players improve on the areas of weaknesses which you have pointed out, we then need to play them together to get the benefits.

Obviously, when an FC is apointed he will see this immediately and act on it. For now, however, we need to get CCC to think along the same lines as the rest of the human race.

I need suggestions please. Do we take CCC to court to force his hand?
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Post by cic old boy »

Ayo: The question is not whether Chukwu understands this. I believe he does. He must be a first class mugu not to be able to see what un-trained eyes can see.

The issue really is, what is his agenda? Is it trying to prosecute games by giving us the best possible team? Or is it trying to earn enough cornbread to make sure his retirement is one of comfort and relative splendour?

That is the issue with ICs. Quite a few of them know what to do. But other considerations prevent them from doing it.
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

cic old boy wrote:Ayo: The question is not whether Chukwu understands this. I believe he does. He must be a first class mugu not to be able to see what un-trained eyes can see.

The issue really is, what is his agenda? Is it trying to prosecute games by giving us the best possible team? Or is it trying to earn enough cornbread to make sure his retirement is one of comfort and relative splendour?

That is the issue with ICs. Quite a few of them know what to do. But other considerations prevent them from doing it.
I suppose you have a point there. In these tournaments, the further you go, the more the players earn and the less the officials have to share among themselves.

However, CCC has not tried this midfield combination in friendly or even qualification games. Now what do we attribute that to?
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Post by Dodo »

i still think a 4-5-1 is best way to go for Nigeria
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

Dodo wrote:i still think a 4-5-1 is best way to go for Nigeria
To play 4-5-1, you need a big, nimble, fast, strong and goal scoring targetman like Van Nistelroy. Who would you suggest?
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Post by Coach »

4-5-1 is indeed a very versatile system, it can be played with 2 wide strikers, or, as favoured by Milan at times, with 2 playing in the hole behind the striker.

The strength of the 4-5-1 is in its midfield, and the ability to commit many players in attack. Its not mandatory that you have a target man in this system, as was shown by Fulham, with the more mobile Louis Saha. This is a system that could offer Nigeria alot. But, we cannot rest our lorels on the back four. Unreliable in a 4-4-2, whats the likelihood of them holding firm in a 4-5-1?

We may need a more primitive shape that caters for our weaknesses, whilst maintaining an attacking threat at the same time. Does Chukwu's pool of knowledge have depth beyond the 4-4-2? It remains to be seen.
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Post by Ayo Akinfe »

Coach wrote:4-5-1 is indeed a very versatile system, it can be played with 2 wide strikers, or, as favoured by Milan at times, with 2 playing in the hole behind the striker.

The strength of the 4-5-1 is in its midfield, and the ability to commit many players in attack. Its not mandatory that you have a target man in this system, as was shown by Fulham, with the more mobile Louis Saha. This is a system that could offer Nigeria alot. But, we cannot rest our lorels on the back four. Unreliable in a 4-4-2, whats the likelihood of them holding firm in a 4-5-1?

We may need a more primitive shape that caters for our weaknesses, whilst maintaining an attacking threat at the same time. Does Chukwu's pool of knowledge have depth beyond the 4-4-2? It remains to be seen.
AC Milan play a 4-3-1-2 formation with Kaka playmaking behind Shevchencko and Inzaghi.
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Post by Coach »

Ayo, 'at times', as was quoted above, they have adopted this formation, with 2 in behind Shevi. Hence Berleusconni's statement prior to their match against Sparta, which read 'he wanted Milan to play with 2 strikers'. Its one of Ancellotti's alternatives. More often than not he favours the 4-3-1-2, but has been known to field a 4-3-2-1, to minimalise the threat of the oppositon.
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Re: Nigeria has never got its central midfield strategy righ

Post by bamenda boy »

I wonder if it is right, now.
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