What makes Nigeria a "Giant" in Africa.

Mzekezeke · Post by **Mzekezeke** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:17 pm

1naija wrote:Mandoza, first of all, UBA is a ficticious Association, so CEO of UBA means nothing outside an Okocha bashing thread.

Secondly, why do you always take it personal when someone presents a not so rossy picture of South Africa? What do you think the word SUSPECT in the first sentence of my post means?

I think I have told you this before, but if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the Kitchen. If your question is good natured, then there are plenty of good natured response already given on the thread that should have satisfied you. Kneedeep's is a good example.

Bottomline, the "Giants of Africa" title is a ficticious title just as the UBA CEO. However, Nigeria's status is Africa can be measured by her contribution to the peace and security of the continent. You will be hard pressed finding an African country that has done more, and that my friend is what makes Nigeria stand out.

Wow the UBA is really a ficticious organization, and here I was thinking it was as real as Shriners INC.

Seriously thankyou for your answer finally, now that wasn't so difficult was it? And as for your suspicions they where way off of base.

And when you imply that we as people are only good for manual labour you are damn right I am going to take it personally.

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:06 pm

Ok

1. Let us leave the US, Brazil is heavily industrialized and produces Aiplanes. Is there still not rampant poverty in Brazil? What has the Brazilian industralization done for Brazilian poverty and the huge chasm between rich and poor? Back to the US, I refer to the Ford's, Carnegie's etc in terms of achievement. You keep saying "the achivements of Nigerians abroad". Where do you think Soyinka, Achebe, Teslim Elias, Lambo etc lived? Many of our best and brightest are abroad, that is why the Oyibo's and Emegwalis, and even Ogbunigwes are abroad. They are not achievers because they live in the US. It is talent, hard work and determination that causes them to succeed. During the colonial era, most of the best and brightest went into the foreign service. What goods did Lord Lugard or Cecil Rhodes, "produce within Britains borders"? There are many great Russian scientists, how much of their work has been succesfully commercialized? Does the lack of commercialization take anything away from Russia as a great nation?

2. What planet are you living on? $100million profit in small African cell phone markets, where? This is not Europe or North America homes, this is Africa. Vodacom just paid $550 million for the Econet license that is up for renewal in two years. If that is not "rushing into the market", I don't know what is

3. I started talked about foreign policy and pro-African policies, not the state of our Embassies. Once again you are mixing up apples and oranges. The administration of Embassies is distinct from policy.So tell me, in your opinion in the last forty years give me the "black" African countries that have influenced world policy the most and how. You have no idea how much money Nigeria pumped into Zimbabwe, SA, and Angola. In fact I doubt you know that First Bank used to be Standard Bank, Union Bank was Barclays, AP was BP and so on. They were nationalized to goad the British Goverment into loosening its grip on Zimbabwe. Show me another African State with the balls to do this.

When Nigeria is compared to other Africans, we have done well. We could have done a lot better, but they are several that have done a lot worse. [/url]

1.first of all i never said anything about industralization being a straight road to riches...secondly brazil is not a highly industralized nation...economically,they are stilll considered a developing country...
literary achievement is totaly diffrent from the achievements of people like emegwali..u cannot compare the two...same thing with the italian examples u gave earlier...art and literature are two things different from industrial achievements...infact this is totally off topic...my point is that the achievements of nigerians abroad cannot directly make Nigeria as a country a giant in Africa...your whole first paragraph is based on potential...sure Nigeria has the potential to be great if we actually take advantage of the emegwali's in our country..but as of now we have not...and these guys are out there doing thier things in other countries...even the russian scientists u mention are still in russia, making Russia and not some other country great...that is the big diffrence..

2.Again I never siad anything about 100 million profit...I said, the phone companies can get 100 million in total earninigs from a smaller African country( compared to 350 in Nigeria) but stilll have a higher profit margin than thier operation in Nigeria....so total earnings is irrelevant...profit is what counts...and in a country like Nigeria with high production costs i dont see how viable that is...

again if Nigeria is a "producers gold mine" because of the lucrative market, then why are we having difficulties attracting foreign investment...a country like south Africa doubles NIgeria's annual Foreign direct investment....and i just checked it today but i have no time to find the web site...i think form the UNCTAD, FDI/TNC database...and remember that SA has a smaller population than Nigeria...so there is more to it than just size of mkt...

3. and as for foreign policy..I will say it again...Nigeria is a political giant simply because we chose to put ourselfes in that position...I brought up the examples of embassies to show that sometimes we do more than we are capable of doing simply to reaffirm our self acccliamed political "giantness" in Africa...any country can chose to become more active with its African foreign policy...foreign policy is not something that results from being a giant or great...
if u talk about pumping money...do u think that if south Africa chose to pump moeny into African politics that nigeria would be able to compete...politics is a self acclaimed thing and nigeria has chosen to put itself in that position...any North African country or SA could easily decide that they want to be the political super power and slowly increase thier activities on the African scene...
Im not saying that there is anything wrong with our african foreign policy, but u cant really use it to stake claim the title: " african giants"...I guess i focus more on economy and living standards...almost any country can decide to become an African political giants...but not just any country can boast of having high living standards and a reasonably good economy..

but like u said there are other African countries that have done alot worse , but we cannot use this to console ourselves...

3.

Jimi · Post by **Jimi** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:48 am

All this story wey everybody dey talk..So what is naijas rightful place in Africa. It seems like many people on this thread could focus some of the energy being used to disparage naijas image as the African giant into finding the positives that actually give us the potential to be the giant of Africa. I'll try to pick apart a few points made by BLAKES and AREASTARR.

First off, AS you said Nigeria does not wield military influence in Africa..Tell me who is the primary military power in West Africa besides Nigeria? Furthermore if you look at stats about military strength in terms of manpower and equipment, like I said Nigeria has the strongest military in Sub-Saharan Africa bar South Africa. If you want some info I'll get you some from the Brookings institute and other think-tanks. And I'm sure you won't dispute the fact that military power counts for a lot. Even the heads that be in Naija know this.

Next, Blakes you said Nigerians succeeding abroad can not help Nigeria in any way. A simple economic way to disprove this would be the remittances that Nigerian professionals in diaspora inject into the economy. This does count for a lot especially in some smaller developing countries.

You guys need to focus on the positives, I can't believe someone said that naijas have not necessarily led the way in sports performance on the continent.

Kneedeep · Post by **Kneedeep** » Sat May 01, 2004 2:34 am

Blakes wrote:
Ok

1. Let us leave the US, Brazil is heavily industrialized and produces Aiplanes. Is there still not rampant poverty in Brazil? What has the Brazilian industralization done for Brazilian poverty and the huge chasm between rich and poor? Back to the US, I refer to the Ford's, Carnegie's etc in terms of achievement. You keep saying "the achivements of Nigerians abroad". Where do you think Soyinka, Achebe, Teslim Elias, Lambo etc lived? Many of our best and brightest are abroad, that is why the Oyibo's and Emegwalis, and even Ogbunigwes are abroad. They are not achievers because they live in the US. It is talent, hard work and determination that causes them to succeed. During the colonial era, most of the best and brightest went into the foreign service. What goods did Lord Lugard or Cecil Rhodes, "produce within Britains borders"? There are many great Russian scientists, how much of their work has been succesfully commercialized? Does the lack of commercialization take anything away from Russia as a great nation?

2. What planet are you living on? $100million profit in small African cell phone markets, where? This is not Europe or North America homes, this is Africa. Vodacom just paid $550 million for the Econet license that is up for renewal in two years. If that is not "rushing into the market", I don't know what is

3. I started talked about foreign policy and pro-African policies, not the state of our Embassies. Once again you are mixing up apples and oranges. The administration of Embassies is distinct from policy.So tell me, in your opinion in the last forty years give me the "black" African countries that have influenced world policy the most and how. You have no idea how much money Nigeria pumped into Zimbabwe, SA, and Angola. In fact I doubt you know that First Bank used to be Standard Bank, Union Bank was Barclays, AP was BP and so on. They were nationalized to goad the British Goverment into loosening its grip on Zimbabwe. Show me another African State with the balls to do this.

When Nigeria is compared to other Africans, we have done well. We could have done a lot better, but they are several that have done a lot worse. [/url]

1.first of all i never said anything about industralization being a straight road to riches...secondly brazil is not a highly industralized nation...economically,they are stilll considered a developing country...
literary achievement is totaly diffrent from the achievements of people like emegwali..u cannot compare the two...same thing with the italian examples u gave earlier...art and literature are two things different from industrial achievements...infact this is totally off topic...my point is that the achievements of nigerians abroad cannot directly make Nigeria as a country a giant in Africa...your whole first paragraph is based on potential...sure Nigeria has the potential to be great if we actually take advantage of the emegwali's in our country..but as of now we have not...and these guys are out there doing thier things in other countries...even the russian scientists u mention are still in russia, making Russia and not some other country great...that is the big diffrence..

2.Again I never siad anything about 100 million profit...I said, the phone companies can get 100 million in total earninigs from a smaller African country( compared to 350 in Nigeria) but stilll have a higher profit margin than thier operation in Nigeria....so total earnings is irrelevant...profit is what counts...and in a country like Nigeria with high production costs i dont see how viable that is...

again if Nigeria is a "producers gold mine" because of the lucrative market, then why are we having difficulties attracting foreign investment...a country like south Africa doubles NIgeria's annual Foreign direct investment....and i just checked it today but i have no time to find the web site...i think form the UNCTAD, FDI/TNC database...and remember that SA has a smaller population than Nigeria...so there is more to it than just size of mkt...

3. and as for foreign policy..I will say it again...Nigeria is a political giant simply because we chose to put ourselfes in that position...I brought up the examples of embassies to show that sometimes we do more than we are capable of doing simply to reaffirm our self acccliamed political "giantness" in Africa...any country can chose to become more active with its African foreign policy...foreign policy is not something that results from being a giant or great...
if u talk about pumping money...do u think that if south Africa chose to pump moeny into African politics that nigeria would be able to compete...politics is a self acclaimed thing and nigeria has chosen to put itself in that position...any North African country or SA could easily decide that they want to be the political super power and slowly increase thier activities on the African scene...
Im not saying that there is anything wrong with our african foreign policy, but u cant really use it to stake claim the title: " african giants"...I guess i focus more on economy and living standards...almost any country can decide to become an African political giants...but not just any country can boast of having high living standards and a reasonably good economy..

but like u said there are other African countries that have done alot worse , but we cannot use this to console ourselves...

3.

1. Please google Brazil+Manufacturing. How can a country that designs, manufactures and markets Jets not be industrialized? Argument is one thing, but don't be riduculous.

2. Tell me the African countries where the turnover is $100 million for a cell phone company? MTN made 22 Billion Naira profit the second half of last year. Do the math to dollars.

3. You keep going on and on about South Africa, is that the only country you know in Africa? Perhaps you might want to look at the economic indices and foreign policy of other countries. "Any North African country...", do you know that Charles Taylor, Sankoh and the terrorists in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea have been armed and trained by Ghaddafi? How is that a success of Gahddafi's policy, Taylor is in exile, Sankoh is dead, and the Guinea rebels are on the ropes. There have been other adventures in Chad and Central African Republic by Ghaddafi. So therefore Ghaddafi has tried to be a superpower and failed. He did not succeed "just like that".

Blakes, please tell me all these African countries with "high standards of living and good economies". Another mistake is Nigerians always want to compare cities. How many rural areas in other countries have even ever been wired for electricity, or had water pipes laid? Because life is good in Nairobi or Abidjan does not mean the whole country is like that. It is like mistaking Abuja as the norn for all of Nigeria.

I am not trying to pick on you, but please know what you are talking about before you start to run down our country. I don't know where you live, but find out when a South African Airways flight is landing and wait for the crew to come out. Then come back and tell me what went thru your mind when you saw them.

I'll bet you are just rehashing what you heard growing up. This is why parents have to watch what they say in front of kids.

Jimi · Post by **Jimi** » Sat May 01, 2004 2:38 am

AreaStarr wrote:
Mandoza wrote:I have noticed the phrase Nigeria is an African "Giant" on several occasions here. Admitedly with a population of alledgedly 120 million people this claim is valid. But what else makes Nigeria a giant and how does it compare with other African countries? To be more blunt what sort of infuence does Nigeria have over other African countries?
Mandoza we are giants because of our big mouths, big egos and our Bullsh!t.

My guy, you sound relatively bitter..how far?

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Sat May 01, 2004 2:46 am

Blakes wrote:if u say population then i'll agree that Nigeria is a giant...but economically we are not...if u compare nigeria to other African countries then we appear to be huge...but if u take into consideration our wealth of resources and labour force,.....then we dont look so big anymore...In the 70's ,Nigeria vs Indonesia was a popular economic textbook comparism...why? because the two countries had sooo many economic paralells....Now, comparing Indonesia to nigeria is just plain old retarded...

the gap between SA and Nigeria is Huge...infact SA is a freaking european country in Africa...and then the north africans...once again...they are ahead of Nigeria...and thought, u said Nigeria is 5th?...pls state where u got your data from because according to GDP calcualtions, Nigeria is not 5th in Africa...infact we are bottom 20th in the world....the fact remains that we are no giants...unless u are tlaking about our overpopulated cities or our under-utilized, ineffecient and corrupt economy...

lol! oboy you no see the link I post... www.nationmaster.com there is a graph tool at the top of the page, select the basis of ranking and you'd be provided a graph.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Sat May 01, 2004 3:01 am

AreaStarr, I qualified the use of stats re: " but you know what they say bout statistics... Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions.

Apart from SA which other country can reasonably bear that title? Perhaps our potential is what leads people to call Nigeria the African giant... Sure Botswana and all those other 'silent' countries boast better standard of living but then again they have very small populations. Botswana has less than a 2m people.

Nigeria has over 133m, almost twice the number of the next most populated African country: Egypt, with around 74m.

Whichever way you look at it, population DOES matter, especially among developing countries.

ik15 · Post by **ik15** » Sat May 01, 2004 3:42 am

The notion that nigeria is the giant of Africa is simply a delusion of the highest order. I mean if you can boast of manpower and yet have absolutely nothing to show for it is a very good indication of the exact opposite. Why are those technocrats runing away from Nigeria?. When very simple issues of critical economic import is still being handled with complete mediocrity, you don't need to look far to find out why. Take a look at the petroleum sector for instance, Nigeria's only life support,.... all 4 refineries are not working yet the govt continues to import refined fuel while exporting crude.
I wonder why this is so?. Isn't it better to refine the petroleum in nigeria? Oh I forgot, this would ruin the shady businesses of the crooks we have in power who have turned into petrol importers overnight..... Needless to say that a lot of ppl are still being paid today as refinery staff and Engineers. Gaint of Africa yet no adequate electricity, hospitals, or security while some neighbors in west Africa enjoy these basic amenities and better security more than nigerians. World's sixth largest oil producer(may be that's where the delusional notion emanated) and majority of the masses still live in abject poverty. Any comparison between the economy of Nigeria and south Africa is indeed laughable. Their manufacturing sector alone will make nigerian leaders hide their faces in shame. I guess that's probably not the correct expression since shame is least among the worries of the shameless.
On paper, Nigeria is militarily stronger than most west African countries but in reality that's another matter. Warfare is very different in Africa and don't forget the international backing the ecomog peace campaigns had. It is a totally different ball game when you unilaterally launch a war. If nigeria was so intimidating why was she ceding significant territories to minows like Cameroun?. I'm talking about 33 villages in addition to oil rich Bakassi. As a matter of fact, the only edge nigeria has is in numbers. The airforce has been neglected to a point that it is difficult to ascertain how many aircrafts are still capable of combat operations. The same goes for the navy. Only the army is in better shape but can only field outdated equipments. I mean a $250 rocket anti-tank grenade(RPG) will penetrate the amor of the T-55 which is the main battle tank of the nigeria army and we know how pervasive these weapons are. Fighting spirit is another big factor, for instance, Pakistan which recently sent about 7000 troops supported by gun ships and heavy artillery to crush some 600 highly motivated militants near the Afgan border failed b/c they simply could not match the tenacity of those radicals. You can't impose your will on any country as long as long as the citizens are determined and have the means to resist. Militarily, I'll consider black African countries like Angola, Eritrea, Ethiopia, or even Sudan before contemplating where to place nigeria.

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sat May 01, 2004 4:41 am

Thought wrote:
Blakes wrote:if u say population then i'll agree that Nigeria is a giant...but economically we are not...if u compare nigeria to other African countries then we appear to be huge...but if u take into consideration our wealth of resources and labour force,.....then we dont look so big anymore...In the 70's ,Nigeria vs Indonesia was a popular economic textbook comparism...why? because the two countries had sooo many economic paralells....Now, comparing Indonesia to nigeria is just plain old retarded...

the gap between SA and Nigeria is Huge...infact SA is a freaking european country in Africa...and then the north africans...once again...they are ahead of Nigeria...and thought, u said Nigeria is 5th?...pls state where u got your data from because according to GDP calcualtions, Nigeria is not 5th in Africa...infact we are bottom 20th in the world....the fact remains that we are no giants...unless u are tlaking about our overpopulated cities or our under-utilized, ineffecient and corrupt economy...

lol! oboy you no see the link I post... www.nationmaster.com there is a graph tool at the top of the page, select the basis of ranking and you'd be provided a graph.

welll your link..and according to it...under GDP per capita, in Africa...your giant of Africa, Nigeria is an all mighty number 39...thought the calcualtion u were looking at is just GDP...now if u look at just GDP ranking Nigeria is number 5,point taken...but looking at just GDP is not good because it does not consider population...it is just like 2 people in morroco sharing 10 dollars and 9 people in Nigeria sharing the same 11 dollars...because the people in nigeria have 11 dolars does it mean they are better off than the morocanns who only have 10 dolars...? well GDP per capita makes this distinction between total GDP and population..u can also do the smae thing with total income...
and let me restate under GDP per capita an all mighty Nigeria is number 39 in africa behind other African countries like sudan ,togo and uganda....
real giants like the US are number 2 in the world regarless of thier mighty population...and in Africa, South Africa is Number both GDP and GDp per capita...
GDP per capita is also an economic attempt to potray living standards..
te same thing that makes us potential giants .is the smae thing that is killing us: our population..
but man that site is good oh....i have to bookmark it..

oh and one more thing i said Nigeria is the 17th poorest nation in the world abi? well go to that same URL..on the left hand side click on poorest and behold..Nigeria at Number 17 IN THE WORLD>...

oh and just for fun..u can click on most corrup and once again..Number 2 in the world is the mighty mighty Nigeria..

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:16 am

Blakes, boy anyhow you wan look at it, Naija get more coverage than most other African countries, except probably the North Africans and SA.
and the title isnt completely undeserving...

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:18 am

1. Please google Brazil+Manufacturing. How can a country that designs, manufactures and markets Jets not be industrialized? Argument is one thing, but don't be riduculous.

2. Tell me the African countries where the turnover is $100 million for a cell phone company? MTN made 22 Billion Naira profit the second half of last year. Do the math to dollars.

3. You keep going on and on about South Africa, is that the only country you know in Africa? Perhaps you might want to look at the economic indices and foreign policy of other countries. "Any North African country...", do you know that Charles Taylor, Sankoh and the terrorists in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea have been armed and trained by Ghaddafi? How is that a success of Gahddafi's policy, Taylor is in exile, Sankoh is dead, and the Guinea rebels are on the ropes. There have been other adventures in Chad and Central African Republic by Ghaddafi. So therefore Ghaddafi has tried to be a superpower and failed. He did not succeed "just like that".

Blakes, please tell me all these African countries with "high standards of living and good economies". Another mistake is Nigerians always want to compare cities. How many rural areas in other countries have even ever been wired for electricity, or had water pipes laid? Because life is good in Nairobi or Abidjan does not mean the whole country is like that. It is like mistaking Abuja as the norn for all of Nigeria.

I am not trying to pick on you, but please know what you are talking about before you start to run down our country. I don't know where you live, but find out when a South African Airways flight is landing and wait for the crew to come out. Then come back and tell me what went thru your mind when you saw them.

I'll bet you are just rehashing what you heard growing up. This is why parents have to watch what they say in front of kids.

1.ok your right....i agrreee..Brazil is a top manufacturing nation...u said..brazil is a heavily industralized...two different things..but i understand what u are trying to say..but all this has not got anything to do with my initial point of a country and the accomplishments of its citizens abroad...does a country with heavily accoplished citizens abroad mean that the country is great in anyway?

2.and where did u see "turnover" again?...im talking about total revenue...i dont know how much the cell phone companies make in Nigeria but it has nothing to do with the point im trying so hard to put across...and that point once again is that regardless of the mighty mkt potential in nigeria..the same cell phone companies could be making a higher profit margin in other smaller African countries and by smaller i mean less population like SA and North Africna countries.....period.

3.man, what are u going on about..so you are drawing on the accomplishments of dictators as an example of attempts in other countries to initiate an African foreign policy..? Ghadaffi?hmmm. there are so many ways that I can use to attack that number 3 that i dont even know where to start from so i'll just leave it for u to re-read and find your own flaws in reasoning...i don tire for this argument...we don dey enter topics that have nothing to do with the fact that nigeria is not any African giant/..period. Even if i was not African i would not want to present Nigeria as our role model giant country in Africa...

i'm not comparing any cities...go to the link in thoughts post and do your own research on Africa...im not an Economic instructor...

im not running down our country...but i will not participate in running it up either when i know we are not all what we claim to be....if u consider the so called "Nigerian potential" that u keep indirectly and subconciously reffering to, and compare it to where Nigeria is now..then u know that we really have nothing to boast about...other African countries have not been as blessed as Nigeria and technically some of them may even be better off than Nigeria in the sense that they used thier county's resources more effectively and effecintly than Nigeria...

as for what i heard growing up..that one has nothing to do with my present positions..if u have read any of my posts u know that my points are definatley not what i heard growing up....that being said u seem to be the one who is still attached to what u heard growing up...I mean when they said nigeria was a giant in the 70's, they didnt lie....but now...well maybe u need to visit ngeria again...

speaking of gong to nigeria , i dont know if any of u guys have been to Abuja but at beger Junction they have this big sculpture at the round about and it is a a mighty sculpture of the Nigerian map carriying the African map...isn't it ironic...
3.

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:23 am

besides can someone list what they feel a country needs to have to be the giant in its repective region....?

obviously it is more than population because if it were population alone then nigeria would win hands down....but its not...

when it comes to being a giant, I beleive alot of it has to do with the county's economy..everything revolves arround the economy in a country..and there is not country with a really good economy that does not have a say in its respective region..whether it be politically or otherwise..

Kneedeep · Post by **Kneedeep** » Sat May 01, 2004 8:55 am

Something just occurred to me

India

1. Has a per capita income of just $360 per year

2. Their Army has not "beaten" anyone in ages. In fact the kebab(no pepper soup over there) eating coup plotters in Pakistan, and separatists in Kasmir are a handful for them. Nuclear weapons aside, their Army is not exactly high-tech.

3. Most of the high achieving Indians live outside India.

4. The infrastructure i.e. roads, telephones, electricity, and public water supply are poor.

Yet most normal people call India a regional and even World power. Why? They must be stupid. Have they not heard about Botswana, or the fast growing economy in Mauritius? I wonder if Indians complain and abuse their country of their forums and tell themselves how inferior they are when compared to Malaysia and Indonesia. I wonder............

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sat May 01, 2004 5:47 pm

Kneedeep wrote:Something just occurred to me

India

1. Has a per capita income of just $360 per year

2. Their Army has not "beaten" anyone in ages. In fact the kebab(no pepper soup over there) eating coup plotters in Pakistan, and separatists in Kasmir are a handful for them. Nuclear weapons aside, their Army is not exactly high-tech.

3. Most of the high achieving Indians live outside India.

4. The infrastructure i.e. roads, telephones, electricity, and public water supply are poor.

Yet most normal people call India a regional and even World power. Why? They must be stupid. Have they not heard about Botswana, or the fast growing economy in Mauritius? I wonder if Indians complain and abuse their country of their forums and tell themselves how inferior they are when compared to Malaysia and Indonesia. I wonder............

man i just wrote a whole eassy in reply to your post but there was an error and i lost the whole thing....so i will just give u a three line response instead of a three page response...

If Indians still consider themselves a regional power with China,Russia and Japan on the same continent then they are deluded...they are still competing closely with pakistan....the only reason India has any say is because of thier Nuclear military...and not just that...they have a navy and a strong airforce..and when i say strong airforce im not talking about WWII equipment form the museum... and then thier economy...most of the worlds software production is being oputsorced to India....

I would go thru each of your points for u ...but man i don tire...but let me just say india's infrastrcuture is not poor...and the term poor is relative...the only thing killing them is that heavy overpopulation...they have 84% water avaialability, they are top ten in the world under electricity production...etc

most high achieving indians do not live abroad....but there are definately alot of indians aborad....the richest indian lives in India..he has a software commpany in the states too. and income per capita is not an economic measure that carries a lot of weight....look at GDP per capita for India and tell me what u see...

if u want to compare Nigeria to another Asian country do the Indonesia vs nigeria comparism...In the 70's there were paralells from religious distribution, oil production,population, GDP and fo course corruption...but now they have left us behind both politically and economically...

In my opinion its all about economy and army...NIgeria is definatelly a regional power in Africa, no doubt..but we have not done anything to deserve the phrase "giants of Africa" that one is an exaggeration...heavy one too...so we have an overpopulated country and military and our people are always trying to show themselves when it comes to politics...but we are definatley not the giant in Africa...

besides what do u think it takes to become a regional giant in your opinion...?

Kneedeep · Post by **Kneedeep** » Sat May 01, 2004 9:00 pm

Blakes wrote:
Kneedeep wrote:Something just occurred to me

India

1. Has a per capita income of just $360 per year

2. Their Army has not "beaten" anyone in ages. In fact the kebab(no pepper soup over there) eating coup plotters in Pakistan, and separatists in Kasmir are a handful for them. Nuclear weapons aside, their Army is not exactly high-tech.

3. Most of the high achieving Indians live outside India.

4. The infrastructure i.e. roads, telephones, electricity, and public water supply are poor.

Yet most normal people call India a regional and even World power. Why? They must be stupid. Have they not heard about Botswana, or the fast growing economy in Mauritius? I wonder if Indians complain and abuse their country of their forums and tell themselves how inferior they are when compared to Malaysia and Indonesia. I wonder............
man i just wrote a whole eassy in reply to your post but there was an error and i lost the whole thing....so i will just give u a three line response instead of a three page response...

If Indians still consider themselves a regional power with China,Russia and Japan on the same continent then they are deluded...they are still competing closely with pakistan....the only reason India has any say is because of thier Nuclear military...and not just that...they have a navy and a strong airforce..and when i say strong airforce im not talking about WWII equipment form the museum... and then thier economy...most of the worlds software production is being oputsorced to India....

I would go thru each of your points for u ...but man i don tire...but let me just say india's infrastrcuture is not poor...and the term poor is relative...the only thing killing them is that heavy overpopulation...they have 84% water avaialability, they are top ten in the world under electricity production...etc

most high achieving indians do not live abroad....but there are definately alot of indians aborad....the richest indian lives in India..he has a software commpany in the states too. and income per capita is not an economic measure that carries a lot of weight....look at GDP per capita for India and tell me what u see...

if u want to compare Nigeria to another Asian country do the Indonesia vs nigeria comparism...In the 70's there were paralells from religious distribution, oil production,population, GDP and fo course corruption...but now they have left us behind both politically and economically...

In my opinion its all about economy and army...NIgeria is definatelly a regional power in Africa, no doubt..but we have not done anything to deserve the phrase "giants of Africa" that one is an exaggeration...heavy one too...so we have an overpopulated country and military and our people are always trying to show themselves when it comes to politics...but we are definatley not the giant in Africa...

besides what do u think it takes to become a regional giant in your opinion...?

The infrastrucure in India is not poor? The Bangalore software operations run on generators and boreholes. The Indian government is currently spending huge sums trying to modernize their very poor roads. These are signs of relatively good infrastructure, no?

The richest Indian lives in India, correct? When did he relocate back to India? How many of the Indians in the Forbes 400 live in India?

So because the United States is way richer and more powerful than Canada, do you think that diminishes the status of Canada? Because Japan has more money, and Russia has more Nukes does not diminish India's stature. Is Russia even considered an Asian country?

Bomboy, you need to read more.

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sat May 01, 2004 9:38 pm

The infrastrucure in India is not poor? The Bangalore software operations run on generators and boreholes. The Indian government is currently spending huge sums trying to modernize their very poor roads. These are signs of relatively good infrastructure, no?

The richest Indian lives in India, correct? When did he relocate back to India? How many of the Indians in the Forbes 400 live in India?

So because the United States is way richer and more powerful than Canada, do you think that diminishes the status of Canada? Because Japan has more money, and Russia has more Nukes does not diminish India's stature. Is Russia even considered an Asian country?

Bomboy, you need to read more.

why should i keep track of how the richest Indian moves arround...the man is and has been located in india...he has a softwarte commpany in the states...and thats about it...

and the banglore software company has summarised the whole of india abi..like i said the word "poor" is relative if u call India poor then what would u call Nigeria...wasted? In the context of this discussion India does not have poor infrastructure...i lived in India for four years by the way..just today there was a segment on CNN about outsourcing...alot of the software jobs in the US are going to places like India..

well im happy u realize that there are way more powerful countries in Asia..And u failed to mention China..if u call India a world power before any of the above mentioned countries then it is obviously u who needs more reading...

Kneedeep · Post by **Kneedeep** » Sun May 02, 2004 2:25 am

Blakes wrote:
The infrastrucure in India is not poor? The Bangalore software operations run on generators and boreholes. The Indian government is currently spending huge sums trying to modernize their very poor roads. These are signs of relatively good infrastructure, no?

The richest Indian lives in India, correct? When did he relocate back to India? How many of the Indians in the Forbes 400 live in India?

So because the United States is way richer and more powerful than Canada, do you think that diminishes the status of Canada? Because Japan has more money, and Russia has more Nukes does not diminish India's stature. Is Russia even considered an Asian country?

Bomboy, you need to read more.
why should i keep track of how the richest Indian moves arround...the man is and has been located in india...he has a softwarte commpany in the states...and thats about it...

and the banglore software company has summarised the whole of india abi..like i said the word "poor" is relative if u call India poor then what would u call Nigeria...wasted? In the context of this discussion India does not have poor infrastructure...i lived in India for four years by the way..just today there was a segment on CNN about outsourcing...alot of the software jobs in the US are going to places like India..

well im happy u realize that there are way more powerful countries in Asia..And u failed to mention China..if u call India a world power before any of the above mentioned countries then it is obviously u who needs more reading...

The richest Indian is an "Americana" who got his initial financing and work experiences in the US, but that is insignificant to you. How do you know some people on this board will not achieve more? Why? Because they are not whining on this board?

You lived in India? Where? New Delhi? Could you even drive around at that point in your life?

England, France and Germany are close to each other, can be considered giants of "Europe" and world powers in some sense. This is not like some Playstation competition to see who is the master of "Vice City". I am guessing you are the child of a Diplomat, so obviously you probably know little about Nigeria as a cognizant adult. Go there, learn, more, you'll have fun, and you'll be the better for it

.

Blakes · Post by **Blakes** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:44 am

The richest Indian is an "Americana" who got his initial financing and work experiences in the US, but that is insignificant to you. How do you know some people on this board will not achieve more? Why? Because they are not whining on this board?

You lived in India? Where? New Delhi? Could you even drive around at that point in your life?

England, France and Germany are close to each other, can be considered giants of "Europe" and world powers in some sense. This is not like some Playstation competition to see who is the master of "Vice City". I am guessing you are the child of a Diplomat, so obviously you probably know little about Nigeria as a cognizant adult. Go there, learn, more, you'll have fun, and you'll be the better for it .

ok now u are saying more junk than u did before...since i have to analyse your post to find something sensible to reply to ..ill keep it short...

Europe is different from Asia in the same sense Asia is different form Africa...The point u were trying to get at before u started rambling was that India is a relatively poor country and they are still considered a giant in thier respective region, just like nigeria is poor and we are giants in our region...abi?...

my counter point is that India is not as poor as u make it out to be...but even with that they are not a giant in thier respective region...infact if u call india a giant then u might as well call pakistan a giant...u mention Germany,England and france...countries that are all relatively on the same level...the gap between them is not as big as that between India vs China ,japan and Russia ( and even South korea is way ahead of India when it comes to lliving standards, they havent needed a large army thanks to American occupation, and they have been persuaded not to follow the nukes path unlike thier neighbours n.korea)

that being said Africa is a totally different continent..im trying to help u link your points because now it just sounds like you are rambling, from people on this board achieving more to playstation...if u lose an argument do it like a man and dont start throwing personal insults......
and keep your guesses about me to a minimum,especially when they are totally wrong, u make a guess about me and then u conclude with a statement that starts with "obviously", and then in the same sentence u use "probably" all this from a guess, so what is the probability of the entire sentence being viable?, zero

....just a little snippet of what a headache it has been debating with u, alot of rambling...but u try...

NIgeria is an African giant( along with 3 or 4 other Africa countries sha)...but it is retarded when nigerians come out to boast about it when our country is in shambles(even compared to the other 3 0r 4 in Africa who are rallying for the same "giant" position)..and as u have just proven many nigerians have no points to back up the statement...u just run to examples of other countries who are doing alot better even compared to the others in thier region...
just like the Nigeria carrying Africa sculpture in Abjua...BTW i heard its no longer there...

Jimi · Post by **Jimi** » Sun May 02, 2004 4:05 am

This thread has been derailed.....people need to approach this with a neutral mindset and mentality, even though most of us are Nigerians. Most of the posts on this thread are are borne out of extreme mindsets.

Kneedeep · Post by **Kneedeep** » Sun May 02, 2004 6:33 am

Blakes wrote:if u say population then i'll agree that Nigeria is a giant...but economically we are not...if u compare nigeria to other African countries then we appear to be huge...but if u take into consi8eration our wealth of resources and labour force,.....then we dont look so big anymore...In the 70's ,Nigeria vs Indonesia was a popular economic textbook comparism...why? because the two countries had sooo many economic paralells....Now, comparing Indonesia to nigeria is just plain old retarded...

the gap between SA and Nigeria is Huge...infact SA is a freaking european country in Africa...and then the north africans...once again...they are ahead of Nigeria...and thought u said Nigeria is 5th?...pls state where u got your data from because according to GDP calcualtions, Nigeria is not 5th in Africa...infact we are bottom 20th in the world....the fact remains that we are no giants...unless u are tlaking about our overpopulated cities or our under-utilized, ineffecient and corrupt economy...

Cybereagles

What makes Nigeria a "Giant" in Africa.

Re: What makes Nigeria a "Giant" in Africa.