MOTHER F*CK BBC!!!!!

[kalamashaka]

mcal - Black ancestry in the new world have heavily mixed in European influences. Even in Haiti the women were raped by French land owners. Everywhere in the Americas they say Caucasian genetic input into African American genes is at least 20% with higher amounts in some places. So you cannot say West Africans = African Americans, it's simply not true and highly ignorant.

Here we go again.

Nobody is disputing that black Americans have European and Native American ancestry, however you can't simply wash away their west African gene simply because we want to sound politically correct. Those people are predominantly west African descent. Let's just keep it real here.

ok...what gene?

[Mr. Piffington]

mcal - Black ancestry in the new world have heavily mixed in European influences. Even in Haiti the women were raped by French land owners. Everywhere in the Americas they say Caucasian genetic input into African American genes is at least 20% with higher amounts in some places. So you cannot say West Africans = African Americans, it's simply not true and highly ignorant.

Here we go again.

Nobody is disputing that black Americans have European and Native American ancestry, however you can't simply wash away their west African gene simply because we want to sound politically correct. Those people are predominantly west African descent. Let's just keep it real here.

ok...what gene?

You can't read English?

[greg]

No be him fault sha. Na the West African governments wey no fit get their sports houses in order. Why East African slaves wey dem transport go Middle East no dey win long distance? Why Haiti, St Vincent, Surinam, Guyana, Cuba etc no dey show face for 100M? No be the 9ja 4x100 relay team from Sydney 2000 dem just dash gold after the "slave" winners were caught doping? Make we wait see the the kind igbo wey these Jamos don dey smoke since. Na matter of time before they are caught.

[kalamashaka]

mcal - Black ancestry in the new world have heavily mixed in European influences. Even in Haiti the women were raped by French land owners. Everywhere in the Americas they say Caucasian genetic input into African American genes is at least 20% with higher amounts in some places. So you cannot say West Africans = African Americans, it's simply not true and highly ignorant.

Here we go again.

Nobody is disputing that black Americans have European and Native American ancestry, however you can't simply wash away their west African gene simply because we want to sound politically correct. Those people are predominantly west African descent. Let's just keep it real here.

ok...what gene?

You can't read English?

I can...you've spent the last two weeks insisting that there is a gene for athletics performance and accusing anyone who disagrees of "political correctness". Instead of repeating the same thing over and over, let's take it a bit further. Your contention is that there is a gene that west Africans possess (exclusively) that expresses itself best in producing short sharp bursts of energy (i.e. sprinting). What gene is it?

[Mr. Piffington]

mcal - Black ancestry in the new world have heavily mixed in European influences. Even in Haiti the women were raped by French land owners. Everywhere in the Americas they say Caucasian genetic input into African American genes is at least 20% with higher amounts in some places. So you cannot say West Africans = African Americans, it's simply not true and highly ignorant.

Here we go again.

Nobody is disputing that black Americans have European and Native American ancestry, however you can't simply wash away their west African gene simply because we want to sound politically correct. Those people are predominantly west African descent. Let's just keep it real here.

ok...what gene?

You can't read English?

I can...you've spent the last two weeks insisting that there is a gene for athletics performance and accusing anyone who disagrees of "political correctness". Instead of repeating the same thing over and over, let's take it a bit further. Your contention is that there is a gene that west Africans possess (exclusively) that expresses itself best in producing short sharp bursts of energy (i.e. sprinting). What gene is it?

All that is in the figment of your very colorful imagination. All I'm saying is that west Africans are the best sprinters (from what we have seen). West Africans including people of mainly west African descent (American blacks, Caribbeans,etc). Stop trying to make a simple explanation complicated.

[kalamashaka]

mcal - Black ancestry in the new world have heavily mixed in European influences. Even in Haiti the women were raped by French land owners. Everywhere in the Americas they say Caucasian genetic input into African American genes is at least 20% with higher amounts in some places. So you cannot say West Africans = African Americans, it's simply not true and highly ignorant.

Here we go again.

Nobody is disputing that black Americans have European and Native American ancestry, however you can't simply wash away their west African gene simply because we want to sound politically correct. Those people are predominantly west African descent. Let's just keep it real here.

ok...what gene?

You can't read English?

I can...you've spent the last two weeks insisting that there is a gene for athletics performance and accusing anyone who disagrees of "political correctness". Instead of repeating the same thing over and over, let's take it a bit further. Your contention is that there is a gene that west Africans possess (exclusively) that expresses itself best in producing short sharp bursts of energy (i.e. sprinting). What gene is it?

All that is in the figment of your very colorful imagination. All I'm saying is that west Africans are the best sprinters (from what we have seen). West Africans including people of mainly west African descent (American blacks, Caribbeans,etc). Stop trying to make a simple explanation complicated.

Oh...my bad! I must have imagined all those times you've been saying "it's all in the genes".

[Damunk]

ok...what gene?

The ACTN3 gene is under suspicion and research continues. However contemporary thinking is that there is a cluster of genes potentiating each other. Nothing is conclusive.
But to dismiss the genetics of the lop-sided representation in elite sprinting would be foolhardy.
The absence of (conclusive) evidence is not evidence of absence.

[kalamashaka]

ok...what gene?

The ACTN3 gene is under suspicion and research continues. However contemporary thinking is that there is a cluster of genes potentiating each other. Nothing is conclusive.
But to dismiss the genetics of the lop-sided representation in elite sprinting would be foolhardy.
The absence of (conclusive) evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is the thing though, what I remember from watching Colin Jackson's documentary (this was a few years ago), is that that particular gene, which the scientists involved also attributed Jackson's prowess partly to, occurs mostly in west africans and...*drumroll*...white Europeans.

As i said in the other thread, I'm not disputing that there are physiological reasons why certain people are better than others in sport...it's just that I find the idea that there is one thing, one secret to athletic success utterly unconvincing or that this "secret" very neatly coincides with skin colour.

Incidentally, do you think elite athletes can e representative of the populations from whuch they come? After all, it's not as if most west Africans (and their diaspora), or even many, can compete against elite European athletes.

[The YeyeMan]

Denise Lewis just smiled and looked fine but did not add anything of substance..

That's all she does.

[realtrouble]

Denise Lewis just smiled and looked fine but did not add anything of substance..

That's all she does.

She has limited vocabulary and lack the intelligent to be a sport presenter. BBC presentation was racist , how come only White athlete win the swimming events

[Damunk]

ok...what gene?

The ACTN3 gene is under suspicion and research continues. However contemporary thinking is that there is a cluster of genes potentiating each other. Nothing is conclusive.
But to dismiss the genetics of the lop-sided representation in elite sprinting would be foolhardy.
The absence of (conclusive) evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is the thing though, what I remember from watching Colin Jackson's documentary (this was a few years ago), is that that particular gene, which the scientists involved also attributed Jackson's prowess partly to, occurs mostly in west africans and...*drumroll*...white Europeans.

As i said in the other thread, I'm not disputing that there are physiological reasons why certain people are better than others in sport...it's just that I find the idea that there is one thing, one secret to athletic success utterly unconvincing or that this "secret" very neatly coincides with skin colour.

Incidentally, do you think elite athletes can e representative of the populations from whuch they come? After all, it's not as if most west Africans (and their diaspora), or even many, can compete against elite European athletes.

Its a complex debate, just as complex as genetics itself. Bt we can only compare like with like, i.e. elite athletes from A with elite athletes from B. No point expecting average West African man to be able to compete with elite European athlete just because Mr West Africa has more fast twitch fibres in his muscles.
I just find it amazing that long before any formal training comes in, and long before any mental 'conditioning' occurs, many or even most of our kids are outsprinting their white peers in school in the short distances at least.
It is more than just coincidence and the research continues.

As a kid, I was absolutely certain I would one day run for GB, until I began running against black kids from other schools and found I wasnt the fastest kid on the planet, though still fairly quick.
When a little later I then moved to Nigeria, I discovered to my dismay that I was actually average and nothing special.

[kalamashaka]

Its a complex debate, just as complex as genetics itself. Bt we can only compare like with like, i.e. elite athletes from A with elite athletes from B.

I think that elite athletes irrespective of their race probably have more in common with each other genetically (when it comes to athletic performance)than they would with the average joe from their respective populations

[Damunk]

Its a complex debate, just as complex as genetics itself. Bt we can only compare like with like, i.e. elite athletes from A with elite athletes from B.

I think that elite athletes irrespective of their race probably have more in common with each other genetically (when it comes to athletic performance)than they would with the average joe from their respective populations

An interesting study would be to grab those Average Joes off the streets of Lagos, Accra, Nairobi, Melbourne, Beijing, Moscow, Kingston, Seattle etc etc and make them sprint short distances, allowing for differences in age, weight, height etc etc.

Hmmm...what do you think would happen?

[Igbanibo]

Newsflash! The 100m hurdles was won by an Australian of European ancestry!

[kalamashaka]

Its a complex debate, just as complex as genetics itself. Bt we can only compare like with like, i.e. elite athletes from A with elite athletes from B.

I think that elite athletes irrespective of their race probably have more in common with each other genetically (when it comes to athletic performance)than they would with the average joe from their respective populations

An interesting study would be to grab those Average Joes off the streets of Lagos, Accra, Nairobi, Melbourne, Beijing, Moscow, Kingston, Seattle etc etc and make them sprint short distances, allowing for differences in age, weight, height etc etc.

Hmmm...what do you think would happen?

In our society (kenya), it's almost taken as an article of faith that we are better at physically demanding tasks than white folks...we are hard and whites are "softies", I think even today most Kenyans in Kenya would agree with that proposition. I used to play rugby in school and we once had an opportunity to play against a "white" school called Rift Valley Academy. We went into that game with our confidence sky high...we were goint to teach these "English boys" a lesson in African manhood as in our minds, we were harder, faster, braver etc etc. They f*cked us up good...in all areas of the game! I will never again make the mistake of thinking that Africans are better physically than whites just because they are African

P.S. The score was 49-17 in their favour. All these years later I still remember that.

[Vincent.]

I think that the world is lucky that the Chinese haven't turned their
attention to 100m as yet. Wait till they do.

They are showing that through hard work, lots of $ investment and a systematic
grooming program starting in early years, they can cover many different sports.

You find Chinese medalists everywhere in abundance except Athletics.

I'm hearing the Chinese system isn't too kind to children. Taking kids and stepping on their legs isn't cool at all.

That is typical anti-Chinese propaganda. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice to become an elite athlete, regardless of the country. The systems vary, but it is hard everywhere.

[Vincent.]

ok...what gene?

The ACTN3 gene is under suspicion and research continues. However contemporary thinking is that there is a cluster of genes potentiating each other. Nothing is conclusive.
But to dismiss the genetics of the lop-sided representation in elite sprinting would be foolhardy.
The absence of (conclusive) evidence is not evidence of absence.

It must be a combination of various genes (nature) and nuture. For example, visual examination shows that the best long-distance runners (African, European, etc) mostly have a skinny build, relatively long legs, a huge lung capacity, endurance, etc. All these must be regulated by different genes.

[soothsayer]

I don't see what the issue is, bbc short documentary were just suggesting different theories which are being debated out in the open, even the controversial ones, can anyone deny the fact that majority of sprinters who won gold medals in the sprints events of the last decade were of slave ancestry or had an ancestor who was enslaved from Africa? They ended the documentary with the advisory that associating success to race or genetics is risky and can lead to unforeseen consequences, but I guess people already taken what they wanted form the discussion and were already foaming at the mouth...

[Damunk]

I don't see what the issue is, bbc short documentary were just suggesting different theories which are being debated out in the open, even the controversial ones, can anyone deny the fact that majority of sprinters who won gold medals in the sprints events of the last decade were of slave ancestry or had an ancestor who was enslaved from Africa? They ended the documentary with the advisory that associating success to race or genetics is risky and can lead to unforeseen consequences, but I guess people already taken what they wanted form the discussion and were already foaming at the mouth...

[kalamashaka]

...The most revealing study on this topic was carried out by the renowned Swedish exercise physiologist, Bengt Saltin, who compared sedentary adolescent Kenyans, Kenyan high school runners and elite Kenyan runners with top-level Scandinavian runners. Saltin unearthed a number of important facts. First, relatively sedentary adolescent Kenyans had exactly the same aerobic capacities as sedentary Danish teenagers. If the Kenyans were really genetically superior, you would expect them to have higher VO2maxs than their Scandinavian counterparts (unless their 'superhuman' genes only revealed themselves in response to training).

Second, young Kenyan runners trained with astonishing intensity: About 50 to 60 percent of their total mileage was done at heart rates of 90 percent of maximum or higher! This was significantly higher than the Scandinavians' total and is much higher than anything European and American runners do generally.

Third, and following directly from point two, Kenyan runners - including the high schoolers - were more economical than the elite Scandinavians and also produced less lactate during high-speed running. This makes sense: one of the best ways to boost economy is to train fast, and the Kenyans have the corner on intense training. Also, fast training boosts the aerobic qualities of fast-twitch, type IIa muscle cells and lowers their lactate output, which probably explains why the Kenyans have lower lactate levels during strenuous running. Since high lactates are associated with fatigue, that's a very good thing!
The fourth finding - a critical one for our discussion of whether the Kenyans have a genetic edge - was that sedentary adolescent Kenyans had VO2max readings of 47 (the same as Scandinavians), very active (but non-training) Kenyan teenagers had VO2maxs of about 62, and seriously training high school Kenyan runners checked in with average VO2maxs of 65 to 68. Senior elite Kenyan runners have had their VO2max levels measured at 75 to 85. This progression in aerobic capacities from the mid-40s to high-70s and low-80s is exactly the same as the one observed in Americans (sedentary American youth have VO2max values in the 40s, while topflight runners like Salazar, Ryun, and Prefontaine were in the high 70s and low- to mid-80s). The progression in VO2max values is the same in Kenyans as it is in Americans! In addition, as high school Kenyans become elite senior runners, they increase their number of blood vessels per muscle cell and also enhance the concentrations of energy-producing aerobic enzymes inside their muscle cells. Those are natural responses to hard training and aren't necessarily caused by superior genes.

Calling all Kalenjins
Proponents of the genetic theory often point out that of the more than 35 tribal groups in Kenya, a single tribe - the Kalenjins - has produced most of the great runners (Lelei, Loroupe, Kiptanui, Keino, Kiprotich, Cheromei, Sang, Rono, etc.). The Kalenjins were traditionally a pastoral people who roamed the beautiful Rift Valley of Kenya with their cattle, so one might argue that genes which enhanced the ability to move long distances were 'selected' over evolutionary time. In contrast, members of another large Kenyan tribe, the Luo, have traditionally fished for a living and have produced few top runners..

However, political and social forces inside the country tend to favour the development of Kalenjins at the expense of other tribes. In spite of this, the recent trend in Kenyan running has been for non-Kalenjins (Ndeti, Kamau, Kinuthia, Masya, Osano, Asiago, Osoro, Karori, etc.) to become more prominent as time goes by, rather than for Kalenjins to increase their dominance. Most notably, the Kikuyu tribe, always a fine source of running talent (five-time world champion John Ngugi is Kikuyu), is beginning to produce more and more excellent runners, even though the Kikuyus have not interbred with Kalenjins and historically were not a nomadic people. In fact, running talent may be fairly equally distributed among Kenya's tribes. In other words, the Kalenjin-genetic hypothesis weakens once you take a closer look at what's really going on. How could so many different groups of non-interbreeding people produce top runners, if genetic factors were really the paramount factor?

So what's the real reason?
If genes aren't responsible, what accounts for the difference between African and non-African running? The African approach to training differs from the American-European method in a number of ways, including intensity (Africans usually train more intensely but with less mileage), the amount of hill training (there's no comparison here; the Africans are almost always working on hills), periodisation (Africans vary their training more - favouring big upswings and then gentle troughs; in fact, many Africans take a month or two away from running while their American and European peers continue to plug away without a break), and diet (Africans eat more carbohydrate, less protein, and less fat). Africans also benefit from a decade-long 'base' period - just running back and forth to junior school at moderate speeds - before they take up serious running, while Americans and Europeans tend to simply plunge into competition in more senior school without a prolonged, strength-boosting build-up..

Many of these factors have already been studied in scientific settings. We know that intensity is the most potent producer of fitness, yet American and European runners still preach the merits of high mileage. We know that hill training is better than flat-ground running, yet American and European runners often limit hill work to once a week. We know that the African diet is more conducive to elite performances, yet American and European runners continue to edge toward more protein and fat..

[Damunk]

Thanks kalamashaka.
Very interesting piece.
Do you have a link?

[soothsayer]

3 of British gold multiple medalists have the same birthday.
23rd of March.
Hmmmmmm....coincidence or does astrology have some merit?

[kalamashaka]

Thanks kalamashaka.
Very interesting piece.
Do you have a link?

Sorry, haven't checked in for a while

http://www.greenlifewellness.net/librar ... urance.pdf