Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De Vrij

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by platinum »

anikulapo wrote:PLATINUM ARE WE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235408&start=3404


There is more if you want :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Guy, nothing there mentions speed. Again it's you talking of stretching play with wingers and saying how wingers can be deadly one-on-one and I state clearly, you have wingers to stretch play.

You went on about how france showed you the power of running down the wings. All through the season, you kept pointing at wingers running down the flanks, I asked you NUMEROUS times about how real were using di maria and where they got width from, you ran away. I ask again today, how did holland use Robben, you can't answer a simple question.
Last edited by platinum on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by Bigpokey24 »

What a game. This guy was the coach of barca, they invented the system at barca..my goodness they balled.. reminiscent of Ajaxs in 1995... has anyone seen yujam
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by The YeyeMan »

Bigpokey24 wrote:What a game. This guy was the coach of barca, they invented the system at barca..my goodness they balled.. reminiscent of Ajaxs in 1995... has anyone seen yujam
And Bayern too...
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by The YeyeMan »

The YeyeMan wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:What a game. This guy was the coach of barca, they invented the system at barca..my goodness they balled.. reminiscent of Ajaxs in 1995... has anyone seen yujam
And Bayern too...
And I'm not making a joke. :lol: He laid the foundations there.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by platinum »

anikulapo wrote:
platinum wrote:
anikulapo wrote:
Brah, are we going through this same debate again :scared: :scared: :scared:

How many times have i said SPEED ON THE FLANKS :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Who wants slow or average on the flanks :shock: :shock: Haba I have been shouting for DiMaria forever :shock: :shock:

You are being so dishonest that this is laughable :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

But then again, you said you would rather have OKPOLO EYES than GARETH BALE ... NOUGH SAID :lol: :lol: :lol:

Abeg I dey go tap soccer, I no get time for you today ....

I'm dishonest? You're being dull unfortunately. Tell us, was it speed on the flanks that killed the Spaniards today?! You've just watched a game yet don't seem to realize what happened in front of you.

You've been shouting Di Maria, yes...but his effectiveness lately isn't down the wings, you just don't seem to grasp that fact.

I guess in your world, gareth bale passes the ball to himself...there isn't someone to release the killer passes to him right?

Study the game and stop being such a loud yapper when you obviously have little grasp of the concepts.

ONCE AGAIN, get it through your head, speed on the flanks can come from wingbacks. It's not rocket science, you're simply too stubborn to see things clearly, it's silly to be this dense.

Wait oh :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Where is Di Maria most effective? In your bedroom :laugh: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Bruh you are struggling again :laugh:

Was it Ozil that was passing to Bale? Why do we need him when we have a multitude of AM's?

Cheiii Give it up my good man ... You are clearly struggling.... Ok I don promise I don leave you to go tap soccer :D
Argue straight, no need to try sounding smart.

Answer this, how did Robben play today????

Di Maria was used mainly as a AM by Real! You have eyes yet ca't see.

I'm going to stop talking of the finer aspects of the sport with you, you're basically clueless.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mate »

This came out of nowhere. I still think Spain is too talented and deep for a 1st round elimination. Heck, I even think they can beat Brazil next round.

Spain played too complacently. They didn't put enough grit in when it counted. I also think they deviated from their game plan a bit. Once up 1 - 0, they usually work possession, forcing the other team to press, whereupon they effectively counter. They pressed a bit more than usual today. They played higher up in defense rather than in depth. That beautiful Robben 1st goal was the result of a breakdown originating from playing too high up.

t's early. Let's see if this is really a negative inflection point. Given the confed cup thrashing by Brazil, it's tempting to think so. But I'm not yet convinced this is the case.

The burden of proof is on Chile here. They might smell blood. Let's see 2nite what they have against Australia.

One thing is for sure: Holland looks like a potential winner. That squad out there had everything. Power. Pace. Unity. Spirit. Tactical discipline. Gritty defense. A few magicians.

Holland is the one team I feel that Brazil should be most wary of. For some reason, the Dutch always seem to give Brazil a tough game. And this time...Holland looks like they have many more guns.

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mate »

Guys, I don't buy the speed or new tactics suddenly exposing tiki taka thing. In my view, Spain simply didn't play tiki taka as effectively as they did the past 4 years. I don't believe they're any slower or the Dutch significantly faster.

In individuals battles, the Dutch won out. They were the better players. With 2 strong teams, I think the tactics were a wash. My only exception to this thinking is that the defense played too high up. And let's be honest...there were some catastrophic blunders, like Casillas losing a ball, and Ramos failing to tackle in tracking a surging Robben.

I could be wrong. But I think the Chile game will answer our questions about Spain.

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by Coach »

Chile already two up.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by Scipio Africanus »

mate wrote:Guys, I don't buy the speed or new tactics suddenly exposing tiki taka thing. In my view, Spain simply didn't play tiki taka as effectively as they did the past 4 years. I don't believe they're any slower or the Dutch significantly faster.

In individuals battles, the Dutch won out. They were the better players. With 2 strong teams, I think the tactics were a wash. My only exception to this thinking is that the defense played too high up. And let's be honest...there were some catastrophic blunders, like Casillas losing a ball, and Ramos failing to tackle in tracking a surging Robben.

I could be wrong. But I think the Chile game will answer our questions about Spain.

Cheers, Mate
You have a point here. Spain played a bit differently today because of Costa.

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by felarey »

The YeyeMan wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:What a game. This guy was the coach of barca, they invented the system at barca..my goodness they balled.. reminiscent of Ajaxs in 1995... has anyone seen yujam
And Bayern too...
And I'm not making a joke. :lol: He laid the foundations there.
Yep he is.....

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mate »

Scipio Africanus wrote:
mate wrote:Guys, I don't buy the speed or new tactics suddenly exposing tiki taka thing. In my view, Spain simply didn't play tiki taka as effectively as they did the past 4 years. I don't believe they're any slower or the Dutch significantly faster.

In individuals battles, the Dutch won out. They were the better players. With 2 strong teams, I think the tactics were a wash. My only exception to this thinking is that the defense played too high up. And let's be honest...there were some catastrophic blunders, like Casillas losing a ball, and Ramos failing to tackle in tracking a surging Robben.

I could be wrong. But I think the Chile game will answer our questions about Spain.

Cheers, Mate
You have a point here. Spain played a bit differently today because of Costa.
In the past they compensated for what they perceived as a lack of a 1st class forward. They combined possession with limited forays, depending on Villa to score enough, with occasional goals by others, to win in South Africa and 2 Euros. They seemed to be a bit more ambitious up front, exactly for the reason you stated: Costa.

Again, I could be wrong. The next 2 games will resolve it for sure.

I can't wait. It is fun.

:D

Cheers, Mate
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by tfco »

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

tiki taka is dead.

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Re: Spain 1 - 2 Holland: 2H Alonso (pen), RVP, Robben

Post by wale1974 »

Bigpokey24 wrote:Spain playing Kick and follow :laugh: wey Yujam
CIC and Zee :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by Cellular »

I left the game at 2:1...

And logged on to see this. Had to see how the beat down happened.... yes, I am rubbernecking.

This kind of accident needs a full gawking experience.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by wale1974 »

smartbrother wrote:Ron Vlaar from aston villa pocketing these spanish primadonnas .what a sight

Fer, Vlaar, Lens, De Guzman are all average players but once they put on that orange jersey, it seems like they are from another planet.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mcal »

...Spain were missing midget Messi today :lol: :lol:
Barca was found out so will spanish national team. I love the spanking :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by Coach »

@Mate, the tactics were pivotal, to suggest this was merely a case of two good teams locking horns is to exaggerate the Dutch startig eleven and downgrade that of Spain. The use of a back three/five caused Spain a problem. Quintessential to their footballing ideology is movement, cunning and a candid ability to pull opposing lines out if shape. With a back five, once settled, Holland could afford to track runners relentlessly without compromising defensive shape. Spain needed to do more with the ascendency once seized, they didn't and paid dearly for such negligence. The arrangement of Holland's midfield was equally advantageous. De Guzman and De Jong pressed higher up the field, in the knowledge that the five men behind the ball allowed numerical parity behind them. Sneijder was more part of a front three than two, with the shape resembling a 5-2-3 at times. Clearly the emphasis was on hitting Spain on the counter where circumstance permitted and through directness all other times. Thr number of crosses, switches of play, it was a tactical triumph.

For Spain, twas a tactical defeat, Costa was passed amongst the centrehalves like the dutchie, ironically and the inverted runs of Silva and Iniesta contributed more claustrophobia and congestion than much else, more often than not. Why Del Bosque didnt use Pedro to stretch play on one side remains a mystery. Fortunately for the old todger, he brought Fabregas on earlier enough for him to be blamed for everything.

Chile will be an interesting affair, they clobbered Spain a couple years back, despite losing on the score cards. E go sweet.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by txj »

Coach wrote:@Mate, the tactics were pivotal, to suggest this was merely a case of two good teams locking horns is to exaggerate the Dutch startig eleven and downgrade that of Spain. The use of a back three/five caused Spain a problem. Quintessential to their footballing ideology is movement, cunning and a candid ability to pull opposing lines out if shape. With a back five, once settled, Holland could afford to track runners relentlessly without compromising defensive shape. Spain needed to do more with the ascendency once seized, they didn't and paid dearly for such negligence. The arrangement of Holland's midfield was equally advantageous. De Guzman and De Jong pressed higher up the field, in the knowledge that the five men behind the ball allowed numerical parity behind them. Sneijder was more part of a front three than two, with the shape resembling a 5-2-3 at times. Clearly the emphasis was on hitting Spain on the counter where circumstance permitted and through directness all other times. Thr number of crosses, switches of play, it was a tactical triumph.

For Spain, twas a tactical defeat, Costa was passed amongst the centrehalves like the dutchie, ironically and the inverted runs of Silva and Iniesta contributed more claustrophobia and congestion than much else, more often than not. Why Del Bosque didnt use Pedro to stretch play on one side remains a mystery. Fortunately for the old todger, he brought Fabregas on earlier enough for him to be blamed for everything.

Chile will be an interesting affair, they clobbered Spain a couple years back, despite losing on the score cards. E go sweet.
I thought Spain paid dearly for a lackadaisical approach, especially after going ahead.

The irony is the player they fought so hard for, Costa, has come in and unbalanced them completely. He appears out of place, out of sync. Its like watching Schwarzenegger in a romantic comedy, except this wasn't funny!

He was better off staying with Brazil...

Never mind how long he took to bring in Pedro, but why Torres when he had Villa on the bench.

Their game with Chile will be something.

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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by asabatex »

Thank you, Sweet baby Jesus.....I don't want those banana throwing racist neaderthals to win any game.. :D
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mate »

Coach wrote:@Mate, the tactics were pivotal, to suggest this was merely a case of two good teams locking horns is to exaggerate the Dutch startig eleven and downgrade that of Spain. The use of a back three/five caused Spain a problem. Quintessential to their footballing ideology is movement, cunning and a candid ability to pull opposing lines out if shape. With a back five, once settled, Holland could afford to track runners relentlessly without compromising defensive shape. Spain needed to do more with the ascendency once seized, they didn't and paid dearly for such negligence. The arrangement of Holland's midfield was equally advantageous. De Guzman and De Jong pressed higher up the field, in the knowledge that the five men behind the ball allowed numerical parity behind them. Sneijder was more part of a front three than two, with the shape resembling a 5-2-3 at times. Clearly the emphasis was on hitting Spain on the counter where circumstance permitted and through directness all other times. Thr number of crosses, switches of play, it was a tactical triumph.

For Spain, twas a tactical defeat, Costa was passed amongst the centrehalves like the dutchie, ironically and the inverted runs of Silva and Iniesta contributed more claustrophobia and congestion than much else, more often than not. Why Del Bosque didnt use Pedro to stretch play on one side remains a mystery. Fortunately for the old todger, he brought Fabregas on earlier enough for him to be blamed for everything.

Chile will be an interesting affair, they clobbered Spain a couple years back, despite losing on the score cards. E go sweet.


It's a lot of factors Coach, as you obviously know. But I still think it was more Spanish players uncharacteristically failing catastrophically under a riskier tactical scheme...versus a riskier tactical scheme inducing catastrophic failure...if that makes sense.

I just don't see tactics accounting for a 4 goal margin. No more than when Spain crushed Italy in the Euros. Or when Germany crushed Argentina last WC.

I acknowledge that a riskier tactical scheme exposed the Spanish a bit more. They clearly need to be a bit more conservative. But more than this, they are going to have to show better play. Casilla gifting a goal? Ramos chasing and not tackling? The whole defense allowing Van Persie an open field from distance on that gorgeous 1st goal? Maybe Xavi is more of defensive liability than once before? Maybe not having the steel of Senna made a difference?


In the end, I don't have the answers. The next 2 games will surely be informative.

Cheers, Mate
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by slyk »

Spain will progress from this group if they do one thing: drop Casilas. If De Gea was in goal, there is no way they concede goals 3,4 and 5. At 2-1 Spain was still in the game but Casilas made three huge mistakes to gift Holland 3 goals. He should have been more commanding on the in-swinger that led to goal 3, he should have had a better first touch on the back pass for number 4 and he should have stayed in goal and allowed Sergio Ramos to take care of Robben for number 5. Sergio even tried to signal to him to stay back but he ran out and made Robben's task much easier. This is one of many instances where team selection not based on current form backfires. Casilas has no business in goal for Spain.
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by mate »

Coach

I watched the full game again. Now I'm more clear that it was catastrophic breakdowns by individuals that led to Holland's win. Nearly every Holland goal came from long range balls that were allowed to find a man or a Casillas mistake.

Yes, Spain's tactics allowed more of these situations, but normally Ramos, Pique, and Casillas aren't that bad. Actually, Casillas needs to go. Now.

I'm not taking anything from Holland. Damn good team. They're peaking at the right time. Legitimate threat to win it all.

By the way, I just heard Del Bosque speak. Very calm and insightful. He said Spain can't make revolutionary changes. That they know how to win...and now need to know how to lose and come back.

I still sense a 2nd round. Especially after watching Chile - Australia on tape. Chile doesn't seem as strong as in the last WC.

Let's see.

Cheers, Mate
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Re: Spain 1 - 5 Holland: 2H Alonso (p); RVPx2, Robbenx2, De

Post by bret- hart »

Watched the replay. Spain was lousy especially their center backs. Sergio Ramos is the most overrated defender I have ever seen. He would not make Naija starting 11 if I were the coach. Del Bosqe has to act now and bench him and Casilas. Both players are useless. Also I feel the decision to pick Costa was a bad one. The Brazilians will go out of their way to make him feel unwelcome. Hopefully Del Bosqe will not be tempted to start him again after he is banned for the rest of the tournament.
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