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Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:34 pm
by theDunamis
mate wrote:Those penalties are not even comparable. The CIV defender CLEARLY impeded the Greek taking the shot. Marquez barely made contact with Robben. I need to see more angle, but for now, all I see is a slight stub of the toe. At the very least, I don't see how it impeded Robben?
Cheers, Mate
WHAT?!? Now come on, Mate. Someone clipping your toe while you are in motion does not impede your movement? Really?? Not even for a split-second or an inch?
I get that you later switched your support to Mexico but at least argue in their favor objectively, my friend.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:45 pm
by mate
I keep looking at the replays on my DVR. Again, maybe I need more angles? I just don't see it? I don't see meaningful impediment or forceful contact. I see a toe stubbing and a blocking short leg that Robben easily could have played past.
Oh well. It's done. The referee made his decision.
For me, the Dutch are currently the 2nd best team, after Argentina. I'm guessing they and Argentina will have a show down. Holland weathered the storm today. I have to believe beating Spain, Chile, and Mexico, even a dogged Australia, is serious preparation.
It's interesting that Holland managed to beat Mexico and Chile, whereas Brazil didn't (penalty shoot out goes down as a tie).
Cheers, Mate
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:59 pm
by kolinzo
zee wrote:kolinzo wrote:mate wrote:kolinzo wrote:GREENWHITEGREEN wrote:I cannot believe that someone said that Mexico was punching above their weight.
Mexicans can hold their heads high in defeat.
One thing we can ALL agree on is that like Bo, Mexico knows football.
I agree that Mexico knows football. But I want to reiterate that it is BS to say they should hold their heads high or that they tried. Getting to second round is not an achievement for Mexico. They get there all the time. An improvement would have been a quarter final. They are still mentally weak on this stage.
Yes, Hererra ultimately blinked. He succumbed psychologically. He just couldn't believe that Mexico could maintain enough initiative and went bunker. That Dos Santos sub especially was infuriating.
I also acknowledge that Mexico happened to get perhaps 1 of the 2 strongest teams in this tournament. In spite of what seems to me that false penalty at the end, I congratulate Holland. They were cool, disciplined, and patiently took their opportunities.
I actually said at the start that the Dutch would lay back and then press in the final 20 minutes...conserving their energy and trying to tire Mexico...which is how it panned out.
BTW: did you think that was a penalty at the end? I still don't.
Cheers, Mate
Hererra did a good job. I can't agree with people blaming his subs. Dos Santos was subbed off in the last game and Mexico went on to score 3 goals. Hererra still brought on Aquino, Mexicans darling, and he did a great job keeping the dutch defence back.
What killed Mexico is not the overlapping of Dutch defense because they couldn't afford to do that as Aquino kept them honest, what killed them was the corner kicks. Dutch were killing them over and over again!!
.
You are just a 'normal' football 'viewer'
...............Just spurting(analysing
) it like any TV viewer.
So it was the 'overlapping and corner kicks' that killed Mexico
.....................like Cicob said somewhere.............'you are talking about the effects while forgetting what caused it'.
But then you are a ................'normal' football viewer
DaftZee, even when you highlighted something you still failed at comprehension. So where did I say overlapping killed Mexico? You are not too bright, unfortunately.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:01 pm
by platinum
Seen the replays, it was a pk.Justice really because marquez had fouled robben a time or two in the box and the ref let those slide.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:31 pm
by analyzer
mate wrote:I keep looking at the replays on my DVR. Again, maybe I need more angles? I just don't see it? I don't see meaningful impediment or forceful contact. I see a toe stubbing and a blocking short leg that Robben easily could have played past.
Oh well. It's done. The referee made his decision.
For me, the Dutch are currently the 2nd best team, after Argentina. I'm guessing they and Argentina will have a show down. Holland weathered the storm today. I have to believe beating Spain, Chile, and Mexico, even a dogged Australia, is serious preparation.
It's interesting that Holland managed to beat Mexico and Chile, whereas Brazil didn't (penalty shoot out goes down as a tie).
Cheers, Mate
Look at Marquez foot that clips/stamps robben's toes.. There was contact and a PK all day.. soft? yes.. But a PK? hard to argue against as there was contact.. Did Robben embellish? Yes..
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:53 pm
by African Star
mate wrote:I keep looking at the replays on my DVR. Again, maybe I need more angles? I just don't see it? I don't see meaningful impediment or forceful contact. I see a toe stubbing and a blocking short leg......
Cheers, Mate
Are you talking about the bad call against CIV that the media just ignored?
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:53 pm
by bret- hart
That was a PK. Herrera messed things up by subbing Dos Santos.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:00 pm
by anointed
AreaDaddy wrote:Robben infuriates me....he is the worse diver ever.
How can he be the 'worse' diver ever when he has won 5 penalties in 14 UCL and WC games this season? Aren't there divers who never even win a free kick
.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:10 pm
by anointed
txj wrote:green4life wrote:Robben is disgusting. Rewatching the replays on his dive. JJ says Mexico was robbed and I agree.
The onus is not on Robben to avoid contact or not to take advantage of it, ONCE THE DEFENDER ENGAGES THROUGH A TACKLE.
I'm not disgusted at Robben; I am disgusted at the stupidity of a player of Marquez's experience!
You are correct on this one cos this like the Lovren putting 2 hands on Fred in the opening game and earning Brazil a pen, the decision could go either ways and still be correct. Refereee's discretion could have given Mexico the decision and it would have bee lauded by all and sundry but do the referees have the benefit of seeing replays like we do?
And reading Law 12 of the Game, it is obvious that the refs are expected to punish intents i.e when there are no contacts. Marquez, for all his experience should have known better.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:25 pm
by anointed
femibyte wrote:Robben robbed an entire nation of its dream. #RobbedByRobben
Is it now that they just had the dream or the 6 previous times they were also 'robbed' of their dram in the 2nd Rd of the WC?
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:12 am
by goke313
Arjen Robben admits diving for a penalty... but not for the injury-time spot-kick that put Holland through and dumped out Mexico
Dutch forward Arjen Robben admitted trying to fool referee Pedro Proenca
Robben said: 'The one [at the end] was a penalty, but the other one was a dive in the first half.'
Holland were awarded a penalty after a foul on Robben by Rafael Marquez
Klaas Jan Huntelaar converted the late spot-kick to dump out Mexico
Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldc ... z364ZjjAIc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:43 am
by mate
goke313 wrote:Arjen Robben admits diving for a penalty... but not for the injury-time spot-kick that put Holland through and dumped out Mexico
Dutch forward Arjen Robben admitted trying to fool referee Pedro Proenca
Robben said: 'The one [at the end] was a penalty, but the other one was a dive in the first half.'
Holland were awarded a penalty after a foul on Robben by Rafael Marquez
Klaas Jan Huntelaar converted the late spot-kick to dump out Mexico
Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldc ... z364ZjjAIc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
He is being as sly as Suarez. He dove on both plays. I'm really tempted to call him Arjen
Robber. But I won't.
I still can't see a penalty. It is what it is. But I sure wish FIFA did something about the diving, which makes it so much more difficult for the refs. We can joke about it, but it's an absolutely disgusting part of the game.
So we move on. Now Holland has the
fortune of meeting a tired and depleted Costa Rica. I'm sure they would have paid money to get such a draw before the WC...but you never know.
One last time...I'd be remiss if I didn't state again that Mexico at least deserved to play this game out in open play, not a dying soft penalty.
Cheers, Mate
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:47 am
by mate
One More Thing...
Why doesn't the author of the thread take the high road and change the title to something like:
Mexico 1 v Holland 2: Referee's penalty 'kills' a Mexico that struggled after coach naively subs Dos Santos and goes bunker!
Cheers, Mate
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:54 am
by African Star
theDunamis wrote:mate wrote:Those penalties are not even comparable. The CIV defender CLEARLY impeded the Greek taking the shot. Marquez barely made contact with Robben. I need to see more angle, but for now, all I see is a slight stub of the toe. At the very least, I don't see how it impeded Robben?
Cheers, Mate
WHAT?!? Now come on, Mate. Someone clipping your toe while you are in motion does not impede your movement? Really?? Not even for a split-second or an inch?
I get that you later switched your support to Mexico but at least argue in their favor objectively, my friend.
You are absolutely and unabashedly biased, how can you totally claim without hesitation that the dubious pk against CIV was legit and then say the pk against Mexico was a robbery? And then dismiss my position that the opposite is the fact on both sitations.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:01 am
by mate
African Star wrote:theDunamis wrote:mate wrote:Those penalties are not even comparable. The CIV defender CLEARLY impeded the Greek taking the shot. Marquez barely made contact with Robben. I need to see more angle, but for now, all I see is a slight stub of the toe. At the very least, I don't see how it impeded Robben?
Cheers, Mate
WHAT?!? Now come on, Mate. Someone clipping your toe while you are in motion does not impede your movement? Really?? Not even for a split-second or an inch?
I get that you later switched your support to Mexico but at least argue in their favor objectively, my friend.
You are absolutely and unabashedly biased, how can you totally claim without hesitation that the dubious pk against CIV was legit and then say the pk against Mexico was a robbery? And then dismiss my position that the opposite is the fact on both sitations.
Obviously reality is subjective.
Cheers, Mate
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 0........Mexico might upset the Oran
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:40 am
by theDunamis
African Star wrote:theDunamis wrote:mate wrote:Those penalties are not even comparable. The CIV defender CLEARLY impeded the Greek taking the shot. Marquez barely made contact with Robben. I need to see more angle, but for now, all I see is a slight stub of the toe. At the very least, I don't see how it impeded Robben?
Cheers, Mate
WHAT?!? Now come on, Mate. Someone clipping your toe while you are in motion does not impede your movement? Really?? Not even for a split-second or an inch?
I get that you later switched your support to Mexico but at least argue in their favor objectively, my friend.
You are absolutely and unabashedly biased, how can you totally claim without hesitation that the dubious pk against CIV was legit and then say the pk against Mexico was a robbery? And then dismiss my position that the opposite is the fact on both sitations.
I will assume your response above was to Mate, not to me.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:16 am
by phantomjournalist
Kudos to Robben for coming out and admitting that he dived. Not many professionals would own up to it. Suarez refuses to admit to biting Chiellini.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:35 am
by camex
phantomjournalist wrote:Kudos to Robben for coming out and admitting that he dived. Not many professionals would own up to it. Suarez refuses to admit to biting Chiellini.
He admitted diving about earlier falls not the penalty
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:29 am
by phantomjournalist
camex wrote:phantomjournalist wrote:Kudos to Robben for coming out and admitting that he dived. Not many professionals would own up to it. Suarez refuses to admit to biting Chiellini.
He admitted diving about earlier falls not the penalty
Read between the lines. Admitting to the game winning penalty would bring his team's victory into disrepute.
There was no need of him to admit to any penalty, period.
To me it pretty much read like an indirect mea culpa, without tainting his team's victory or credibility.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:07 pm
by analyzer
phantomjournalist wrote:Kudos to Robben for coming out and admitting that he dived. Not many professionals would own up to it. Suarez refuses to admit to biting Chiellini.
Interestinly, the incident he claims that he dove looked more of a legit PK as he was clearly kicked by both Marquez and the other CB..
The one Robben claims is a legit PK, looks more like a Dive..
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:59 pm
by oloye
We all know he dives...the terrible ref knew he was a diver hence he ignored him, yet chooses the wrong moment to believe that he did not dive...the freaking ref knew what he was doing.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:21 pm
by Cellular
oloye wrote:We all know he dives...the terrible ref knew he was a diver hence he ignored him, yet chooses the wrong moment to believe that he did not dive...the freaking ref knew what he was doing.
Dean, excellent points...
I think like Alexis Lalas said on ESPN feed, it was a cummulative foul.
The ref caused the repeated dive... if he had carded Robben earlier on, he will either stop diving or be subbed off. EVERYONE who watches the game knows that Robben is a chronic diver...
Marquez is who I am greatly disappointed in... he is such an experienced player. To be suckered in by Robben is very disappointing.
Re: Mexico 1 vs Holland 2.....coach's naiveness 'kills' Mexi
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:36 pm
by African Star
Cellular wrote:oloye wrote:We all know he dives...the terrible ref knew he was a diver hence he ignored him, yes the wrong moment to believe that he did not dive...the freaking ref knew what he was doing.
Dean, excellent points...
I think like Alexis Lalas said on ESPN feed, it was a cummulative foul.
The ref caused the repeated dive... if he had carded Robben earlier on, he will either stop diving or be subbed off. EVERYONE who watches the game knows that Robben is a chronic diver...
Marquez is who I am greatly disappointed in... he is such an experienced player. To be suckered in by Robben is very disappointing.
Marquez was not suckered in, he was going for the ball every time but Robben is so quick that by the time Marquez's tackle gets there the ball is already gone and he ends up clipping Robben.
people who say Robben is a diver simply do not understand the mindset of a dribbler, i am a dribbler and i know that falling over lessens the impact and pain of a late tackle going for your shins or feet, so it is a natural reaction to avoid the impact and pain and sometimes because he is going so fast the slightest touch will send him sprawling.