PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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World cup 2014: Algeria coach angry at Ramadan questions


By David Ornstein
BBC Sport in Porto Alegre
2014 FIFA WORLD CUP - GERMANY V ALGERIA (LAST 16)
Venue: Porto Alegre Date: Monday, 30 June Kick-off: 21:00 BST
Coverage: BBC Sport website, BBC Radio 5 live and ITV

Algeria coach Vahid Halilhodzic refused to divulge which of his Muslim players are observing Ramadan ahead of Monday's World Cup last-16 meeting with Germany.
The 30-day dawn-to-dusk fast began on Sunday and Halilhodzic, 61, bristled at a routine question about the subject in his pre-match news conference.
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World Cup 2014: Algeria 1-1 Russia highlights
"This is a private matter and when you ask this you lack respect and ethics," said the Bosnian.
"The players will do as they wish and I would like to stop this controversy."
Ramadan is mandatory for Muslims and one of the five pillars of Islam, although there are exemptions for the sick, pregnant, infirm or elderly.
Individuals who are travelling or going to war are also permitted to avoid it and this is the provision under which most athletes will delay the fast until a more suitable time.
It is an issue that Halilhodzic did not take kindly to being quizzed about, adding: "Ramadan is here and I read in some Algerian newspapers criticisms about me, about my image, about my honour.
"They are trying to raise hatred against Vahid, against my family, and this is really disgusting.

Germany midfielder Mesut Ozil has said he will not be observing Ramadan during the World Cup.
"It is not the first time I have Muslim players in my team, I myself am a Muslim, and I've always left them totally free. This is a private issue - it has to do with private freedom of expression.
"Those who continue criticising our team and my actions, I think it's shameful. But I will continue [as coach], I will continue working with this team. I'm sorry that you continue criticising what I do.
"Stop asking me about Ramadan, otherwise I will get up and leave."
Algeria captain Madjid Bougherra has indicated he will observe the holy month, but Germany midfielder Mesut Ozil and France defender Bacary Sagna have said they will not.
Halilhodzic's squad were accompanied to Brazil by Hakim Chalabi, a sports medicine specialist and one of Fifa's leading experts on fasting footballers.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28082432
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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What are you talking about? A guy with a signature like yours complaining about people not being private in their religious practice? Move this to Rant and Rave mods.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Players who fast during games do not understand the koran. Basically you cannot fast if you are putting your life in danger, playing in a soccer match without proper hydration puts your life in danger especially in hot and humid Conditions when you can suffer a fatal heat stroke. Problem is that most religious Islamic people and clerics are either illiterate or have very low iq or have been indoctrinated or brainwashed by such a character so much so that you even have medical doctors believing in that hogwash.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Jaidi wrote:What are you talking about? A guy with a signature like yours complaining about people not being private in their religious practice? Move this to Rant and Rave mods.
The is about fasting and fasting alone and what I mean is that Muslims don't attempt to make fasting private,hence, what the Algeria coach is saying is a paradox.

BTW, where did I complain? Isn't it your coach that is complaining?
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

Anointed: why is that a (your) problem? I am referring to the title of your post.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

African Star wrote:Players who fast during games do not understand the koran. Basically you cannot fast if you are putting your life in danger, playing in a soccer match without proper hydration puts your life in danger especially in hot and humid Conditions when you can suffer a fatal heat stroke. Problem is that most religious Islamic people and clerics are either illiterate or have very low iq or have been indoctrinated or brainwashed by such a character so much so that you even have medical doctors believing in that hogwash.

you are a self-proclaimed atheist. Leave those who believe in God alone.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Jaidi wrote:What are you talking about? A guy with a signature like yours complaining about people not being private in their religious practice? Move this to Rant and Rave mods.
You didnt get it do you. No one is saying do not declare that you are Muslim or Christian. However from a Christian angle, you are not meant to let anyone really know when you are fasting, alms giving etc. So the coach is doing something correctly. It is noone's business if his players are fasting or not!! NO-ONES!!
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:Anointed: why is that a (your) problem? I am referring to the title of your post.
Oga, I didn't say it's my problem o.
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For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

Post by mcal »

...this Algerians, plus the naija and french Muslims did not play like people fasting :???:
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

Post by ElHadary »

Cristao II wrote:
Jaidi wrote:What are you talking about? A guy with a signature like yours complaining about people not being private in their religious practice? Move this to Rant and Rave mods.
You didnt get it do you. No one is saying do not declare that you are Muslim or Christian. However from a Christian angle, you are not meant to let anyone really know when you are fasting, alms giving etc. So the coach is doing something correctly. It is noone's business if his players are fasting or not!! NO-ONES!!
Muslims =/= Christians. Whereas Christians are told not tell others when they are fasting or when they are confessing or donating, Muslims inform others to encourage them or remind them.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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That's nonsense. Muslims are encouraged to be discrete and humble about fasting
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Na wa ohhh do some of you have a problem with reading or is it comprehension? :shock:

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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
African Star wrote:Players who fast during games do not understand the koran. Basically you cannot fast if you are putting your life in danger, playing in a soccer match without proper hydration puts your life in danger especially in hot and humid Conditions when you can suffer a fatal heat stroke. Problem is that most religious Islamic people and clerics are either illiterate or have very low iq or have been indoctrinated or brainwashed by such a character so much so that you even have medical doctors believing in that hogwash.

you are a self-proclaimed atheist. Leave those who believe in God alone.
These are the reasons why I am an atheist, why should anyone fast and put their life in danger because a guy told them to do so, the same guy who also told people that he flew on a flying horse with wings from Saudi Arabia to Isreal to meet with the angel Gabriel who had come down from heaven and summoned him for a meeting. A guy whose wife told him that it's amazing how his god ordains every lustful desire he craves.
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Yujam,

You must be living in another world. Islamic fasting is extremely publicized. If fasting in Islam doesn't hug the publicity it does, no one will make it an issue in football.
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

anointed wrote:Yujam,

You must be living in another world. Islamic fasting is extremely publicized. If fasting in Islam doesn't hug the publicity it does, no one will make it an issue in football.
Anointed:

clarification, not just for you, but for others, including Muslims as well.
There are recommended fasts, on specific or discretionary days of the week throughout the year for Muslims. Most people that do this keep it to themselves. That is comparable to the Christian fast.

The Ramadan Fast is a whole month, a particular calender month. It is obligatory on all healthy adults (with certain exceptions). By default, every adult Muslim would be fasting during this month. Not sure how this can be kept private, and whether it should be. Only very close folks to me know that I am fasting. However, I can understand it is easier to let colleagues and friends know that you are fasting, rather than make excuses to avoid lunch meetings, going out for coffee, and other related activities for a whole month.
I'll give you a personal example. A few years ago, I was attending a conference in DC. It was during the month of Ramadan. We had planned to meet with Cellular, who would be available for lunch. I had to tell him I could not do lunch because I was fasting. He respectfully and graciously went out of his way to make out the time to have dinner with me. I don't think I was "hugging publicity" by telling him why I could not have lunch with him.

Imagine if the majority of Christians fasted for the whole month of December, culminating in Christmas. How easy would it be to conceal? Cafeterias closed at breakfast and lunch time in many major countries, no lunch meetings, etc? Would the WC or Olympics for that matter even hold during such a month if the majority of athletes who are from Christian countries are fasting?



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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
anointed wrote:Yujam,

You must be living in another world. Islamic fasting is extremely publicized. If fasting in Islam doesn't hug the publicity it does, no one will make it an issue in football.
Anointed:

clarification, not just for you, but for others, including Muslims as well.
There are recommended fasts, on specific or discretionary days of the week throughout the year for Muslims. Most people that do this keep it to themselves. That is comparable to the Christian fast.

The Ramadan Fast is a whole month, a particular calender month. It is obligatory on all healthy adults (with certain exceptions). By default, every adult Muslim would be fasting during this month. Not sure how this can be kept private, and whether it should be. Only very close folks to me know that I am fasting. However, I can understand it is easier to let colleagues and friends know that you are fasting, rather than make excuses to avoid lunch meetings, going out for coffee, and other related activities for a whole month.
I'll give you a personal example. A few years ago, I was attending a conference in DC. It was during the month of Ramadan. We had planned to meet with Cellular, who would be available for lunch. I had to tell him I could not do lunch because I was fasting. He respectfully and graciously went out of his way to make out the time to have dinner with me. I don't think I was "hugging publicity" by telling him why I could not have lunch with him.

Imagine if the majority of Christians fasted for the whole month of December, culminating in Christmas. How easy would it be to conceal? Cafeterias closed at breakfast and lunch time in many major countries, no lunch meetings, etc? Would the WC or Olympics for that matter even hold during such a month if the majority of athletes who are from Christian countries are fasting?

cheers!
I don't think that will be the case. How many people who go to church or bear Christian names undertake the Lenten fast? If you really want to use the term 'Christian', honestly they are very scarce. Within sports circles, there's no respect for Sundays as it used to be and that's cos there aren't enough Christians to make that difference. If there are all those football matches, Grand Prix, grand slams finals, Golden League, Christmas Day fixtures etc will not take place. When Jonathan Edwards, the tripple jumper said he didn't want to compete on Sundays, he was clearly on his own.

The point is that those athletes you think are Christians aren't actually practicing Christianity because the freedom in Christianity, which has been gravely and severally misinterpreted has been abuse so the so called Christians do whatever they like. By extension, the Christians don't often speak with one voice because of freedom and hence there is no particular law such as for fasting. Already, you can see that Lenten fast, observed every year is hardly popular beyond Ash Wednesday, which in itself is an orthodox Christian thing. Personally, observation of the Lenten season isn't even biblical but all the bible says is that we should fast but there are boundaries.

So, if there ever was a Christian fast called for December, ahead of Christmas, it will fail. Serious and faithful fasting in Christianity is largely a private affair.
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anointed wrote:Yujam,

You must be living in another world. Islamic fasting is extremely publicized. If fasting in Islam doesn't hug the publicity it does, no one will make it an issue in football.

Why are you arguing abt sthg you are not well versed in?

We are told to be humble abt Ramadan and not to advertise it
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this should be in rant and rave :laugh:
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YUJAM wrote:
anointed wrote:Yujam,

You must be living in another world. Islamic fasting is extremely publicized. If fasting in Islam doesn't hug the publicity it does, no one will make it an issue in football.

Why are you arguing abt sthg you are not well versed in?

We are told to be humble abt Ramadan and not to advertise it
What is the 'sthg' I'm not well versed in? I guess you mean Islam but thanks I'm not talking about Islam rather the issue is about the publicity that surrounds Ramadan fasting. And you only need to watch television to know what it's all about.

That apart, I've always had Muslim friends in schools and colleagues at work. I've live a full year with Muslims in core Muslim Katsina State and spent some 9 years in northern Nigeria. When I was in NYSC, the orientation camp was during Ramadan (December 1999). I recall the Muslim corp members protesting albeit unofficially that those of us not fasting were cheating them by eating in the afternoon.
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
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Re: PROBLEM IS MUSLIMS DON'T TRY TO BE PRIVATE ABOUT IT

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Ramadan is a central month for Muslims, yes no one denies that and fasting in it is one of the five pillars of our faith so there's no doubt it's a big topic. I still don't understand what the "problem" is here and what you're complaining about. Vahid was complaining because he did not want distractions for his players and has had long running issues with the Algerian media. The tangent your on, about publicity seems motivated by other issues though.
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Jaidi wrote:Ramadan is a central month for Muslims, yes no one denies that and fasting in it is one of the five pillars of our faith so there's no doubt it's a big topic. I still don't understand what the "problem" is here and what you're complaining about. Vahid was complaining because he did not want distractions for his players and has had long running issues with the Algerian media. The tangent your on, about publicity seems motivated by other issues though.
I thought you said I was complaining...
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

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