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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Like I said on the CRC vs Netherland thread, bringing on Krul was no tactical move but mind game. It was plain for the eye to see. Living Krul out against ARG was also a mind game but it didn't work. What people should be talking about is how the Dutch pk takers suddenly forgot how to take PKs. After all, they did it against the best Keeper in La Liga.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:42 pm 
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oloye wrote:
analyzer wrote:
Vincent. wrote:
Chief, as you know, coaching is about maximizing your options and making educated gambles. Van Gaal probably knew from the start that De Jong would have to come off after 60 mins but he must have decided that playing De Jong against Messi for 60 minutes was better than playing the alternative for 90 minutes. As for van Persie, he probably thought that one moment of "genius" could be enough to decide the game. What if he did not play De Jong and Messi runs riot? Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but who knows how Huntelaar would have done if started over Van Persie? Van Gaal is the coach and he knows both players very well. By the way, Van Persie was fully fit against Mexico and Costa Rica, but he did nothing.

As for Krul, what I don't understand is why people are now saying he should have been used for the penalties. Had they lost to Costa Rica, people would have called Van Gaal a mad man for replacing his reliable starting keeper with his second-choice keeper at the most crucial moment in the quarter-final of a World Cup. Just because it paid off against Costa Rica, people are now complaining that Van Gaal made a mistake by not introducing Krul again. Krul's introduction surprised Costa Rica, but would not have surprised Argentina because they already knew he might come on. Even playing Krul would not have prevented the Dutch from missing the penalties they missed.

Moreover, why should Van Gaal reserve his third substitution for Krul when nobody knew from the start that the game would go to penalties? The only reason he was able to use Krul against Costa Rica is that he was not in a position where he needed to take off a defender who was already on a yellow card and committing rash fouls, which could earn him a red card - this was the case with Martins Indi. Indi was already on a yellow and he was struggling very hard yo cope with Messi and Lavezzi on the right. Had he not been in that situation, maybe Van Gaal would still have one substitution left after 90 minutes? It is impossible to judge 100% how a match will pan out.


But the so called trick did not fail.. it is not like LVG conjured the Krul sub from some magic pot.. From the CR post match interview, LVG definitely made an informed decision and not necessarily some Russian roulette..
Common vincent - did LVG know CR game will go to PKs, but he still planned appropriately.. Starting two arguably unfit players pretty much handicapped him with his subs.. The huntelaar sub was made in Extra time.. I was even a bit surprised as i thought he would have left RVP on with PKs in mind... I do agree he never bargained for the nightmare Indi had..

Also, playing Krul definitely would not have surprised the argies but arguably could have intimidated the Argies more than seeing Cillessen in post.... You get to face a "celebrated" penalty hero from the previous round.. A player whose only call to fame in this WC is saving PKs that knocked out the previous opponent.. :lol: :lol:
Even you or I go shake small.. walking to the PK spot, Krul already waiting with his mind games like he did vs. CR and then you now have to stare at him and his big physical frame for a few seconds until ref blows whistle to go take the PK.. common bro, you got to admit that can be intimidating..
I know say I use story telling means to sell it.. :D :D :D

While the dutch could have still missed their PKs, krul might have saved 1 or 2 to keep the dutch in it.. No one really knows.. argument is just based on probabilities relative to previous exploit..
And yes, hindsight is responsible for all our talk.. That is the beauty of post game discussions - a lot of ifs and buts..

Say no more,the reason i did not respond was because i could not find the right words to use without being frustrated :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: The whole essence of practicing and training is to find the right personnel to execute a job.Strange he argued that DeJong was used even though he was not fit because he was the one who could do the job, but with Krul, the same argument turned to magic and suprise. Anyone who has played the game would tell you that goalies who have reputation of being penalty stoppers put extra strain of the penalty takers. I am sure the Argies were relieved when Krul did not come on.Looking at it from the psychological point of view, they knew the better penalty stopper is not the one they are facing, no wonder they coolly lined up and tucked in all their balls. Reminds me of shooting practice whenever the keeper we know is the weakest comes in to take his turn in the post, everyone rushes into the queue to have a go at him, and you see missiles start flying from everywhere. :D

If i am to go with their argument it can be said LVG exposed his keeper as being the one who is not good at stopping penalties...I await their spin on that one.

Krul does NOT have a rep as a penalty stopper.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:18 pm 
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kolinzo wrote:
Like I said on the CRC vs Netherland thread, bringing on Krul was no tactical move but mind game. It was plain for the eye to see. Living Krul out against ARG was also a mind game but it didn't work. What people should be talking about is how the Dutch pk takers suddenly forgot how to take PKs. After all, they did it against the best Keeper in La Liga.


below states otherwise.. You can claim mind game - but apparently, it was a well calculated gamble and not some russian roulette to bamboozle the opponent..

Quote:
“We said nothing to Jasper because we didn't want him to know before the game,” Van Gaal said. “But as I've explained, every keeper has specific qualities.
Tim has a longer reach and a better track record with penalties than Cillessen.
“We had discussed it with Tim. He knew about their penalties because he needed to be prepared.
“It worked out. If it hadn't, it would have been my mistake.
Every player has certain skills and qualities and they don't always coincide. We felt Tim would be the most appropriate keeper to save penalties.“You have seen that Tim dived to the right corner twice. We are a tiny bit proud this trick has helped us through.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Gaal.html

The bolded part is for yeyeman.. Krul just had to be better at saving PKs than the next guy, and hence offer the team a better chance; not necessarily be a PK specialist..

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:12 pm 
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analyzer wrote:
kolinzo wrote:
Like I said on the CRC vs Netherland thread, bringing on Krul was no tactical move but mind game. It was plain for the eye to see. Living Krul out against ARG was also a mind game but it didn't work. What people should be talking about is how the Dutch pk takers suddenly forgot how to take PKs. After all, they did it against the best Keeper in La Liga.


below states otherwise.. You can claim mind game - but apparently, it was a well calculated gamble and not some russian roulette to bamboozle the opponent..

Quote:
“We said nothing to Jasper because we didn't want him to know before the game,” Van Gaal said. “But as I've explained, every keeper has specific qualities.
Tim has a longer reach and a better track record with penalties than Cillessen.
“We had discussed it with Tim. He knew about their penalties because he needed to be prepared.
“It worked out. If it hadn't, it would have been my mistake.
Every player has certain skills and qualities and they don't always coincide. We felt Tim would be the most appropriate keeper to save penalties.“You have seen that Tim dived to the right corner twice. We are a tiny bit proud this trick has helped us through.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Gaal.html

The bolded part is for yeyeman.. Krul just had to be better at saving PKs than the next guy, and hence offer the team a better chance; not necessarily be a PK specialist..


Then he left him on the bench against Argentina because...? The truth is the guy was playing mind games, not calculation. If he truly believes that he would have waited to bring Krul in again against ARG. But he played mind game thinking ARG would panic like the CRC players did. Enyimba was consistent bringing on Aiyenugba for Enyeamagnet for pk shootout. LVG played mind game and nothing less nothing more.

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Scientifically speaking: ANC Trophies = 3/4 when Br^33 = 0.
***Breda = Br****


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:59 am 
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kolinzo wrote:
analyzer wrote:
kolinzo wrote:
Like I said on the CRC vs Netherland thread, bringing on Krul was no tactical move but mind game. It was plain for the eye to see. Living Krul out against ARG was also a mind game but it didn't work. What people should be talking about is how the Dutch pk takers suddenly forgot how to take PKs. After all, they did it against the best Keeper in La Liga.


below states otherwise.. You can claim mind game - but apparently, it was a well calculated gamble and not some russian roulette to bamboozle the opponent..

Quote:
“We said nothing to Jasper because we didn't want him to know before the game,” Van Gaal said. “But as I've explained, every keeper has specific qualities.
Tim has a longer reach and a better track record with penalties than Cillessen.
“We had discussed it with Tim. He knew about their penalties because he needed to be prepared.
“It worked out. If it hadn't, it would have been my mistake.
Every player has certain skills and qualities and they don't always coincide. We felt Tim would be the most appropriate keeper to save penalties.“You have seen that Tim dived to the right corner twice. We are a tiny bit proud this trick has helped us through.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Gaal.html

The bolded part is for yeyeman.. Krul just had to be better at saving PKs than the next guy, and hence offer the team a better chance; not necessarily be a PK specialist..


Then he left him on the bench against Argentina because...? The truth is the guy was playing mind games, not calculation. If he truly believes that he would have waited to bring Krul in again against ARG. But he played mind game thinking ARG would panic like the CRC players did. Enyimba was consistent bringing on Aiyenugba for Enyeamagnet for pk shootout. LVG played mind game and nothing less nothing more.


IMO, krul was left on the bench because LVG goofed up by starting 2 unfit players and then the yeye indi that had a nightmare

sub 1 - took off indi who was on a YC and struggling all 1st half
sub 2 - took off unfit de Jong in 60th min.
sub 3 - took off unfit and tired RVP for Huntelaar.. we talking of RVP, a designated Pk taker..

Trust me, Arg would for shake small if LVG brought on a GK whose only fame in this WC is PK heroics.. Besides, i heard the Dutch #1 was not too please with the move vs. CR.. maybe that played on LVG's mind..

I honestly think his hands were forced by the subs he had to make..

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:18 am 
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analyzer wrote:
kolinzo wrote:
analyzer wrote:
kolinzo wrote:
Like I said on the CRC vs Netherland thread, bringing on Krul was no tactical move but mind game. It was plain for the eye to see. Living Krul out against ARG was also a mind game but it didn't work. What people should be talking about is how the Dutch pk takers suddenly forgot how to take PKs. After all, they did it against the best Keeper in La Liga.


below states otherwise.. You can claim mind game - but apparently, it was a well calculated gamble and not some russian roulette to bamboozle the opponent..

Quote:
“We said nothing to Jasper because we didn't want him to know before the game,” Van Gaal said. “But as I've explained, every keeper has specific qualities.
Tim has a longer reach and a better track record with penalties than Cillessen.
“We had discussed it with Tim. He knew about their penalties because he needed to be prepared.
“It worked out. If it hadn't, it would have been my mistake.
Every player has certain skills and qualities and they don't always coincide. We felt Tim would be the most appropriate keeper to save penalties.“You have seen that Tim dived to the right corner twice. We are a tiny bit proud this trick has helped us through.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -Gaal.html

The bolded part is for yeyeman.. Krul just had to be better at saving PKs than the next guy, and hence offer the team a better chance; not necessarily be a PK specialist..


Then he left him on the bench against Argentina because...? The truth is the guy was playing mind games, not calculation. If he truly believes that he would have waited to bring Krul in again against ARG. But he played mind game thinking ARG would panic like the CRC players did. Enyimba was consistent bringing on Aiyenugba for Enyeamagnet for pk shootout. LVG played mind game and nothing less nothing more.


IMO, krul was left on the bench because LVG goofed up by starting 2 unfit players and then the yeye indi that had a nightmare

sub 1 - took off indi who was on a YC and struggling all 1st half
sub 2 - took off unfit de Jong in 60th min.
sub 3 - took off unfit and tired RVP for Huntelaar.. we talking of RVP, a designated Pk taker..

Trust me, Arg would for shake small if LVG brought on a GK whose only fame in this WC is PK heroics.. Besides, i heard the Dutch #1 was not too please with the move vs. CR.. maybe that played on LVG's mind..

I honestly think his hands were forced by the subs he had to make..

I am not sure your assumptions are fair to Van Gaal. He had all the information available and made the best possible decision for his team.

Your argument would be correct if Van Gaal's game plan was to play for 0-0 and penalties. In that case, he would have been justified in reserving a substitution slot for Krul. All we are doing now is second-guessing Van Gaal: had Van Persie scored and the Nethelands won 1-0, we would be praising Van Gaal for a "brave decision." Had Van Gaal not played De Jong and Messi ran riot, we would have branded him "naive." Had the Dutch players scored all their penalties in the PK shootout (as they did against Costa Rica), we would not even be having this debate.

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