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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:50 am 
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ohsee wrote:
Vincent. wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Vincenzo,
Why are you so eager to make excuses for the greatest player of all the greats since bread started to be sliced? When is he finally going to deliver? We are getting tired of this player who is better than Pele and Maradona, but never seems quite able to accomplish what they have done. I guess the next WC will finally really belong to Messi. Really.

By the way, why is no one mentioning the monster game Boateng had?

I am not defending him. There is no reason to defend a guy who took his team to the World Cup final. That is a huge achievement.

I merely answered the question about Messi walking and not running as he used to do? It was a question many asked towards the end of lass season when he was playing for Barcelona, and the answer is that he was advised by physiotherapists to limit his running because of his recent hamstring injuries.

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We are getting tired of this player who is better than Pele and Maradona, but never seems quite able to accomplish what they have done

As far as I am concerned, only people who don't understand how football works will demand that Messi or Maradona or Pele single-handedly win the World Cup. Football does not work that way. You need a team and good coaches. You also need luck.

As for Messi not achieving what Maradona and Pele have done, again I will say football is not mathematics. There are many things that Messi has achieved at club level that Maradona did not. How many league titles did Maradona win? How many continental European titles did Maradona win? How many world youth titles did Maradona win? How many Golden Balls did Maradona win? This is not to say that Messi is better than Maradona or vice versa, it simply illustrates the fact that football is a team game. No single player can single-handedly achieve anything in football. You need a strong supporting cast and you need luck.

It is ridiculous to demand that Messi win the World Cup. It does not happen than way. You guys seem to be suggesting that if Higuain or Palacio had taken their chances yesterday, then Messi would suddenly have reached Maradona's level, but he is not quite there because those chances were not taken? That is, if his team-mates had had better luck in front of goal, then Messi would suddenly have been elevated to a new level even though he had absolutely nothing to do with whether those guys scored or not, even though he had absolutely no control over whether the keeper would have produced a massive save? You are suggesting that Messi would have been elevated to Maradona's level if Goetze had blown that chance or if goalkeeper Romero had saved his shot or if Zabaleta had prevented Schuerrle from crossing to Goetze in the first place when Messi actually had no control over any of those situations? This illustrates the ridiculousness of this debate.

Vincent.
first you deny that you are making excuses for Messi, then you go about making more? Great players are judged on what they accomplish on the highest stages of all. If you can only accomplish great things with one star-studded team, you are not a great player.

Messi is clearly not a great player at the level of Maradona or Pele. Those players "take the game by the scruff of the neck" as in the old cliche, and do something that wins games.

Messi seems to lack the heart of a Maradona, or the combination of abilities and heart of a Pele (yes, Pele had more abilities than Messi) In the final of the 1986 WC, the Germans also tried to mark Maradona out of the game. He still was able to set up the winning goal with a brilliant pass to Burruchaga. Italy set up its defense to stop Pele, but can you really stop a person who can outjump everybody, and heads the ball with the velocity of a bullet fired from a sniper's rifle? A person who is determined to win, who, when he cannot score, pulls defenses this way and that to give teammates good scoring chances?

Messi gave up yesterday, demoralized that he could not do anything against the well-organized German defense. Did you see how he hung his head in shame at the end? He knew he failed again, knew that it was a matter of intestinal fortitude, of the will to drive his team forward and simply never surrender. Useless surrender monkey Messi.

It had nothing to do with instructions from a doctor; this is the final of the World Cup for God's sakes, this is when you say, "Na die today, instead wey we go lose, make I kill myself for field." Did Messi do that? He just sulked around the field like a petulant child, perhaps wondering where Xavi was to pass him the ball, or Iniesta to open spaces for him. Sheesh.

From now on, enough of the endless talk about this single team wonder, the supposed GOAT who would prove it beyond doubt at this World Cup. He has had three world cups to do it and has been a flop at all three. Three strikes, you are out!

When did stating the facts and answering a specific question about a player's limited running become excuses? I was merely explaining how absurd it is to expect an individual to just wave a magic wand and win a team game on his own. I was explaining the endless variables involved in a single match and pointing out the absurdity of expecting a single person to control all those variables.
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Messi gave up yesterday, demoralized that he could not do anything against the well-organized German defense. Did you see how he hung his head in shame at the end? He knew he failed again, knew that it was a matter of intestinal fortitude, of the will to drive his team forward and simply never surrender. Useless surrender monkey Messi.

Wow!!! Chief, what does this even mean in the context of football? :rotf: You managed to decode all these just by looking t Messi on your TV? What about all the other Argentina players who were dejected or crying after the match? Were they also crying in shame or were they surrender monkeys? Basically, you are saying that all the players and teams that did not win this competition "surrendered."

Anyway, I think I agree with you: Messi is a "failure," he "hanged his head in shame." He is a "surrender monkey" who surrendered when he could easily have dribbled the ball past everybody to 5-6 goals against Germany's amateurs like they do in Fantasy Football or table soccer. What a disgrace of a player!

Meanwhile, the "surrender monkeys" were given a hero's welcome by massive crowds lining the streets of Buenos Aires and greeted by the president of Argentina. I wish we had such "surrender monkeys" in Nigeria.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:13 am 
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The Notorious B!GGESTMAN wrote:
ohsee wrote:
He has had three world cups to do it and has been a flop at all three. Three strikes, you are out!


You made such valid points and then you had to finish it off like this?! All that hard work to be ruined by such a silly statement? How can you say that he was a flop in this WC? Yes he shouldn't have won the Golden Ball and had a poor final, but the tournament as a whole he was decent. 4 goals in 7 games, set up Di Maria's goal in the last 16 and had a major part in Higuain's goal in the QF! Certainly not a flop. smh. :roll:

Calling Messi a flop is "silly" in your view? And what arguments did you marshal to challenge it? The embarrassing statement that he was "decent" in the tournament. My friend maybe English is not your forte (or perhaps it is logic) but if the greatest player of all time is merely "decent" in a World Cup, that is as good a definition of limp-dick floppiness as you can get.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:28 am 
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@ Vincent, I wish I had time to respond to the usual confused, straw-man filled arguments you make. Suffice to say that your first statement about controlling variables contradicts your whole argument about Messi, and the rest of your post is a series of non-sequiturs. But why should I be surprised? I see you do that all the time in Rant and Rave.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:34 am 
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I ultimately have to agree with Ohsee. Messi can't be ranked with Maradona and Pele, exactly because he couldn't win a WC. And yes, he had his chance yesterday. Not only in being in a final. But surely in having 2 direct runs and 1 free kick that might have resulted in goals, but didn't...in a match where only 1 goal was scored, namely by Germany.

We can argue all day about how much harder it is than ever for 1 guy to carry a team. I believe this to be so. But I also believe a true great can still make a difference in making his team champions.

Messi is great. The best player of his generation. He will be a topic of argument for generations to come. But he will be compared to Cruyff, DiStefano, Ronaldo, Zidane, and Xavi...not Pele or Maradona. The latter 2 reign supreme! The people have spoken!

Case closed...until the next WC!

:tic:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:07 am 
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Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:22 am 
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Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:05 am 
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Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.

Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:36 am 
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Orion wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.

Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?


I have to agree with you. Plus 6-8 of these guys have been together from 2005 U-21 WC winning side (including Messi, Zaba and Aguero), and 10 of them played together and won the 2008 Olympics (including Zabaleta, Messi,& Aguero). Messi has had most of his supporting cast now for ~ 10 yrs.

I just realized that Osaze is the only survivor from the 08 Olympics... :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:42 am 
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Orion wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.



Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?

I was also thinking along these lines.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 am 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Orion wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.

Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?


I have to agree with you. Plus 6-8 of these guys have been together from 2005 U-21 WC winning side (including Messi, Zaba and Aguero), and 10 of them played together and won the 2008 Olympics (including Zabaleta, Messi,& Aguero). Messi has had most of his supporting cast now for ~ 10 yrs.

I just realized that Osaze is the only survivor from the 08 Olympics... :shock: :shock: :shock:


I thought Ambrose was in the team if my memory serves me correctly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:48 am 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Orion wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.

Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?


I have to agree with you. Plus 6-8 of these guys have been together from 2005 U-21 WC winning side (including Messi, Zaba and Aguero), and 10 of them played together and won the 2008 Olympics (including Zabaleta, Messi,& Aguero). Messi has had most of his supporting cast now for ~ 10 yrs.

I just realized that Osaze is the only survivor from the 08 Olympics... :shock: :shock: :shock:


What did Aguero do in this tournament?

Zabaleta wasnt an issue. Argentina's defensive chemistry wasnt an issue. The issue is aside from Messi and Di Maria, not one of Argentina's attackers stepped up.

Orion, Maradona had a better supporting cast in 1986 as Valdano scored 4 goals and Argentina as a team scored 14 goals (compared to the 8 goals they scored in this WC). This time around, Argentina did not have anyone outside of Messi who scored more than 1 goal.

Would Maradona have won the WC on this 2014 team? I dont know...we saw Higuain and Palacio miss a sitters in the final and we saw how bad Aguero was the entire tournament. These guys didnt just stink vs Germany but in the entire tournament. It's possible Maradona could have led this team to glory but he would have had far more work to do.

I still think its laughable a player's greatness is associated with winning the WC. I've said since the start of the tournament Messi was not having a great tourny despite the goals he scored in the group stage. He wasnt spectacular in the KO stage. Yet, had Higuain or Palacio scored 1 goal then suddenly Messi would've 'won' the WC for Argentina and would have been elevated to legend status? I'm sorry but it doesnt work that way.

Funny enough, I think history as a way of lionizing the achievements of past players. Perhaps a decade or two from now we'll hear about Messi single handedly carrying Argentina to the 2014 WC final and winning the Golden Ball award.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:06 pm 
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tfco wrote:
javier mascherano was the best argentine for me.

Mascherano belongs among the greatest DMs of all time, right up there with Makalele (perhaps better).

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:09 pm 
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^and Obiesta.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:14 am 
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Coach wrote:
tfco wrote:
Globero wrote:
Coach wrote:
The metamorphosis of Bastian Schweinsteger casts shame and condemnation at those of "worldly" standing through sheer misplacement and blind patriotism. ......... from the countless tackles, the myriad well ins and blood streaming down his face, the perfect portrait of a warrior, he could indeed do it on those snow laden, frost biting soils of Britannia, where those harshest elements have slewed hundreds .......



:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Schweini at the Britannia against a TP-coached XI on a cold, wet Monday night? I think so.

Evening kick-off...put back a couple hours due to weather warnings.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:40 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
@ Vincent, I wish I had time to respond to the usual confused, straw-man filled arguments you make. Suffice to say that your first statement about controlling variables contradicts your whole argument about Messi, and the rest of your post is a series of non-sequiturs. But why should I be surprised? I see you do that all the time in Rant and Rave.

Chief, you are right - I always debate with the facts rather than fantasy :D
There is no contradiction anywhere: my argument is constant - demanding that a single person win a team game is not serious because the outcome of a football match depends on so many people (his team-mates and the strength of the opponent).

Football is not tennis or golf where a player can be 100% responsible for his own destiny. Messi could have played the best game of his life and Argentina could still have lost the match; Messi could have played the worst match of his career and Argentina could still have won, That is the nature of football. Therefore, it is absurd to demand that Messi win the World Cup. All he can do is his best, which may or may not be enough. People calling Messi a failure just because he did not win the World Cup simply don't understand the dynamics of a team game.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Heliopolis wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Orion wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:
Orion wrote:
Messi finally got the team he needed to be a WC winner but unfortunately he failed to live up to the occasion. This year they had a team with a solid defence, a solid midfield and a plethora of support strikers. And they actually jelled as a team this time. The solid foundation was already there and the team just needed a player to provide that extra special that great players provide. Imagine the Maradona of 1986 having such a solid team to work with? He surely would have provided that x-factor that makes the difference between winning or going home empty handed.


How many Argentina matches did you watch? :lol:

Argentina defended well throughout the tournament but that's because they committed atleast 7 men to defence and often 8 players. This limited their attacking abilities and to compound matters, none of their attackers performed well.

Messi's 'plethora of support strikers' combined for a grand total of 1 goal. Messi scored 4 times as many goals as Higuain, Lavezzi, Palacio and Aguero combined. The only other Argentine attacker to show up in this tournament was Di Maria who was injured in the QFs. People need to stop judging teams on paper and actually watch the matches. Truth be told, Argentina were quite fortunate to get this far which was due largely to their relatively easy draw.

Take out Messi from that team and put the Maradona of 1986 in his place and they would've won the 2014 world cup. True or false?


I have to agree with you. Plus 6-8 of these guys have been together from 2005 U-21 WC winning side (including Messi, Zaba and Aguero), and 10 of them played together and won the 2008 Olympics (including Zabaleta, Messi,& Aguero). Messi has had most of his supporting cast now for ~ 10 yrs.

I just realized that Osaze is the only survivor from the 08 Olympics... :shock: :shock: :shock:


What did Aguero do in this tournament?

Zabaleta wasnt an issue. Argentina's defensive chemistry wasnt an issue. The issue is aside from Messi and Di Maria, not one of Argentina's attackers stepped up.

Orion, Maradona had a better supporting cast in 1986 as Valdano scored 4 goals and Argentina as a team scored 14 goals (compared to the 8 goals they scored in this WC). This time around, Argentina did not have anyone outside of Messi who scored more than 1 goal.

Would Maradona have won the WC on this 2014 team? I dont know...we saw Higuain and Palacio miss a sitters in the final and we saw how bad Aguero was the entire tournament. These guys didnt just stink vs Germany but in the entire tournament. It's possible Maradona could have led this team to glory but he would have had far more work to do.

I still think its laughable a player's greatness is associated with winning the WC. I've said since the start of the tournament Messi was not having a great tourny despite the goals he scored in the group stage. He wasnt spectacular in the KO stage. Yet, had Higuain or Palacio scored 1 goal then suddenly Messi would've 'won' the WC for Argentina and would have been elevated to legend status? I'm sorry but it doesnt work that way.

Funny enough, I think history as a way of lionizing the achievements of past players. Perhaps a decade or two from now we'll hear about Messi single handedly carrying Argentina to the 2014 WC final and winning the Golden Ball award.

That is the absurdity that I am pointing out to people! The problem is that people are just looking for a fairytale ending: the media set an arbitrary benchmark and people are upset that Messi did not achieve the benchmark. I blame Germany for not reading the script: Germany should have scored an own goal and let Argentina win, and suddenly Messi would have become as great at Maradona even if he contributed nothing to the match.

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“I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art. Football is like that. When I watch Barcelona, it is art” — Arsène Wenger, August 2009


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:58 am 
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Heliopolis wrote:

I still think its laughable a player's greatness is associated with winning the WC. I've said since the start of the tournament Messi was not having a great tourny despite the goals he scored in the group stage. He wasnt spectacular in the KO stage. Yet, had Higuain or Palacio scored 1 goal then suddenly Messi would've 'won' the WC for Argentina and would have been elevated to legend status? I'm sorry but it doesnt work that way.


:roll:
You do realize Messi also missed 2 chances in the final?

According to Messi fanboys HE carried the team to the final....of course, lets ignore the role that Mascherano (the best Argie for me) played on the team.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:31 pm 
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On the topic of Bastian at the Britannia, if someone could kindly post "that" clip of Busquets please.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:25 pm 
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the thought of facing a TP-managed team away from the comforts of Spain

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AFCON 2019 - DRIVE for FIVE

FOUR > THREE


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:27 am 
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tfco wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:

I still think its laughable a player's greatness is associated with winning the WC. I've said since the start of the tournament Messi was not having a great tourny despite the goals he scored in the group stage. He wasnt spectacular in the KO stage. Yet, had Higuain or Palacio scored 1 goal then suddenly Messi would've 'won' the WC for Argentina and would have been elevated to legend status? I'm sorry but it doesnt work that way.


:roll:
You do realize Messi also missed 2 chances in the final?

According to Messi fanboys HE carried the team to the final....of course, lets ignore the role that Mascherano (the best Argie for me) played on the team.

You missed his point: his point is that even if Messi spent the entire match doing nothing (chilling in the center circle, smoking a cigar and drinking whiskey) and left Higuain to score all the goals and win the World Cup for Argentina, people would still have said, "Look, Messi has won the World Cup, so he is on the same level with Maradona."

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Eto’o, Ronaldinho, Deco, and Messi are like good caviar, tender pine-nuts, chemical-free sea salt, and the purest of virgin olive oils, said one of the world's greatest chefs, Ferran Adria of El Bulli restaurant, Before Barca went on to wallop Madrid 3-0 at the Bernabeu.

“I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art. Football is like that. When I watch Barcelona, it is art” — Arsène Wenger, August 2009


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:47 pm 
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Vincent. wrote:
tfco wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:

I still think its laughable a player's greatness is associated with winning the WC. I've said since the start of the tournament Messi was not having a great tourny despite the goals he scored in the group stage. He wasnt spectacular in the KO stage. Yet, had Higuain or Palacio scored 1 goal then suddenly Messi would've 'won' the WC for Argentina and would have been elevated to legend status? I'm sorry but it doesnt work that way.


:roll:
You do realize Messi also missed 2 chances in the final?

According to Messi fanboys HE carried the team to the final....of course, lets ignore the role that Mascherano (the best Argie for me) played on the team.

You missed his point: his point is that even if Messi spent the entire match doing nothing (chilling in the center circle, smoking a cigar and drinking whiskey) and left Higuain to score all the goals and win the World Cup for Argentina, people would still have said, "Look, Messi has won the World Cup, so he is on the same level with Maradona."


Messi has not scored in every CL Finals match but he's still won the CL

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FOUR > THREE


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