Paul Scholes retires!!!!

[Waffiman]

I tend to be very careful on how I use the word 'great' to describe a player. However, if analysed critically, Scholes is not far off being great. It all depends on the context on which you apply the word. Here is how I make my conclusions:

Was Scholes a great EPL Player? Yes. Why? He performed week in and out for at least 4 to 5 seasons as the best or one of the best. All player performance analysis confirms this. He was also voted into the team of the year for the majority of seasons he performed by his peers and critics. Above all he won silverware with him being influential in his team's success. If he was in a team not winning silverware, what is clear is he would have been purchased by a top team and he would have made sure by his performance that his team won silverware.

Was Scholes a great player in club football in Europe. See above. Yes you can argue he was not as influential in Europe as he was at domestic level, nevertheless, you cannot argue with his CL medals and he played a huge part in his teams success.

For International football, you can say he was nowhere as good for his country. Glen Hoddle was the one Coach who got the best of him at this level. Was it his fault? You can say there are no excuses because unlike a player like George Weah, who you really cannot fault because his national team was rubbish, Scholes with his talents should have done more for his country. But he chose to retire and did not make any impact when he was playing for his country.

Unlike Xavi and Socrates who have performed and still performing (in Xavi's case) at club level as brilliantly as Scholes, Scholes just cannot match Xavi and Socrates or any of the true greats when it comes to International football. In fact, internationally, he did not do anything outstanding to merit the status of greatness. George Weah made up for his non International status by conquering all at Club level and he got International recognition as a result. This is why, I cannot rank Scholes as a truly great player overall. However, I am still loath to holding this against him because most of it was not his fault or down to ability only.

In the light of the above, I rank Schloes as a truly great club player both in the EPL and CL. But as a good player Internationally. Consequently, I cannot say Scholes is one of the truly great players overall, I say he was a very good player overall.

As for Iniesta and Cesc, they are ahead of schedule, however I will not call them great yet. Come 5 years time and they have accumulated a record like Xavi, then I will review my position.

I agree with you. He was very good but not a great like Socrates, Xavi, Iniesta or even Cesc at this age

Yujam, it does not take away the fact that he was a fantastic player. Just give credit where it is due. The English do produce top players and occasionally the produce exceptional players like Scholes. I watched Scholes for year live, believe me, he can play. His football brain was second to none.

Blah blah blah. He was OK guys. Let's not try to reinvent history. All the guys who were quoted are better than him

Here's what his fellow pros said about him (from ZZ, to Xavi, to Cesc to Pique, to a World Cup winning coach):

Manchester United's Paul Scholes lauded by players and coaches around the world after announcing retirement
Following Paul Scholes's confirmation he is retiring from football, players and managers from around the world have heaped praise on the Manchester United midfielder.

By Mark Ogden

1:40PM BST 31 May 2011

Xavi Hernandez: Paul Scholes is a role model. For me – and I really mean this – he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. I've spoken to Xabi Alonso about him. He's spectacular, he has it all: the last pass, goals, he's strong, he doesn't lose the ball, vision. If he'd been Spanish he might have been rated more highly. Players love him.

Socrates (Brazil): Good enough to play for Brazil. I love to watch Scholes, to see him pass, the boy with the red hair and the red shirt.

Zinedine Zidane: My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation.

Marcello Lippi: Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team – that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. An all-round midfielder who possesses quality and character in abundance.

Laurent Blanc: I tell anyone who asks me – Scholes is the best English player.

Roy Keane: No celebrity bulls**t, no self-promotion – an amazingly gifted player who remained an unaffected human being.

Edgar Davids: Everyone of us should emulate him. We can all learn from Paul Scholes.

Cesc Fabregas: For any football player in the Premiership, Scholes is a player you want to emulate. One player does not make a team but there is no doubt that the presence of some players add extra motivation and confidence. Scholes is a player with character and is capable of transmitting that mental strength to his team-mates.

Rio Ferdinand: Paul Scholes retires from football ... the BEST player of his generation #fact loved every minute of playing football with him. . Paul Scholes aka Sat Nav went from a scoring midfielder to a dictator of the game (changed his game while still at top of the game). Going to miss training with him + his cold cutting + dry comments on the bike while warming up next to me on any1 who deserves it!

Jack Wilshere: Sad to hear Paul Scholes is retiring, what a player! Top class and a great role model for any young #English midfield player!

Gerard Pique: One of the best players I've ever seen in my life! Spectacular on training! Playing with him was a joy!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ement.html

[wiseone]

One of the most incredible things about Scholes is that having nwatched him play top flight football for 17+ years, I can only remember him doing TV interviews on 2-3 occasions. The aggregate duration of those interviews was about 3 minutes.

So rare to find such a publicity shy top class footballer. No celeb GF/wife, no bling or tattoes. Like Keane said - "no celebrity BS".

[The YeyeMan]

Name me one major non-english pundit who holds Scholes with the same reverence as the english do?

Red herring.

Name one non-Nigerian pundit who holds Okocha with the same reverence as Nigerians do.

Scholes was a very talented footballer, constantly highly regarded by his peers in England and outside. Couldn't tackle worth $#% though. Can't really say I warmed to him but he was a gifted footballer.

[txj]

But nobody claimed Okocha had legendary status in the global game. That is the point here...

He is a ManU legend and an English great, period!

Name me one major non-english pundit who holds Scholes with the same reverence as the english do?

Red herring.

Name one non-Nigerian pundit who holds Okocha with the same reverence as Nigerians do.

Scholes was a very talented footballer, constantly highly regarded by his peers in England and outside. Couldn't tackle worth $#% though. Can't really say I warmed to him but he was a gifted footballer.

[The YeyeMan]

Fair enough. He isn't a global legend. He was a very good footballer.

[Skylolo]

Name me one major non-english pundit who holds Scholes with the same reverence as the english do?

Red herring.

Name one non-Nigerian pundit who holds Okocha with the same reverence as Nigerians do.

Scholes was a very talented footballer, constantly highly regarded by his peers in England and outside. Couldn't tackle worth $#% though. Can't really say I warmed to him but he was a gifted footballer.

None of us here is saying he is not a gifted footballer, you cannot win that many honours and have a career that spans almost 20 years at the highest level if you are not. Our point is that there are levels and you have actually gone too far by bringing a proven player on the World stage like Okocha into this...look Okocha proved at the highest level time and time again that he was a class player, don't belittle such a legend because you want to overrate a "overhyped on the global stage" English player. Forget what pundits think the facts are there...

In the 1998 FIFA World Cup hosted by France, Okocha played for a disappointing Super Eagles side who failed to live up to expectations again reaching the round of 16, albeit with less impressive performances save for their 3–2 opening win against Spain. This did not destroy interest in Okocha, who had entertained fans with his trademark skills and dribbles and went on to be named in the squad of the tournament. Did Scholes ever make team of the tournament at the highest level the WC??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Jay_Okocha

BBC African Footballer of the Year: 2004 and 2005. (Pundits outside Nigeria rated JJ, everybody knew he was pure class)

Runner up African Player of the Year: 1998 and 2004. (Once again dont say people outside Nigeria did not rate him)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Jay_Okocha

Okocha later led the Nigerian team to a third place finish at the 2004 African Nations Cup in Tunisia, with some breathtaking displays, scoring four goals which include a spectacular free kick against Cameroun in the quarter finals and most notably the 1000th goal in Nations Cup history against South Africa, and winning the Player of the tournament and joint Golden boot winner. (Has Paul Scholes been this dominant in any tournament??)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Jay_Okocha

Okocha never won the African Player of the Year award, becoming arguably the best player never to win the award despite coming second twice in 1998 & 2004. He did however win the inaugural BBC African Footballer of the Year and the successive one, becoming the only player to retain the award (indeed, the only player to win it more than once). So the BBC recognized his greatness...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Jay_Okocha

In 2004 he was listed in football legend Pelé's FIFA 100 (a list of the greatest 125 living players of all time). In 2007 he was voted number 12 on the greatest African footballers of the past 50 years list, in a poll conducted by CAF to coincide with their 50th anniversary. (Paul Scholes is not on this list because he could not distinguish himself on the biggest stage like Okocha did tournament after tournament )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Jay_Okocha

Now go back and check Paul Scholes achievements and you will find most of them are at National/Premier league level....the greatest players prove it at the biggest stage ANC, European Championships and WC's, this is why people like Okocha will make it into Pele's 125 and Scholes wouldn't...The EPL is a local league just like any other. True greats who can call themselves the best show their worth at Intl level e.g WC's, ANC's, Copa America's, etc etc In these tournaments you would have seen maestro's like Zidane, Okocha, Hagi, Rui Costa, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo etc etc running things. That is the highest level and Paul Scholes does not belong there...

[wiseone]

Um, Zidane, Vieira, Xavi, Henry, Lippi, Socrates...

Name me one major non-english pundit who holds Scholes with the same reverence as the english do?

Red herring..[/quote]

[F360]

One of the most incredible things about Scholes is that having nwatched him play top flight football for 17+ years, I can only remember him doing TV interviews on 2-3 occasions. The aggregate duration of those interviews was about 3 minutes.

So rare to find such a publicity shy top class footballer. No celeb GF/wife, no bling or tattoes. Like Keane said - "no celebrity BS".

Exactly. I saw probably 8-10 Scholes interviews in a decade and a half and most of them were within the past two weeks.

He almost never spoke to reporters.

[oloye]

Um, Zidane, Vieira, Xavi, Henry, Lippi, Socrates...

Name me one major non-english pundit who holds Scholes with the same reverence as the english do?

Red herring..

[/quote]
Those are not pundits olodo those are players (retired and active) o jare , you should know that their opinion does not count.

[cic old boy]

Scholes was a good player with a very good shot and decent range of passing. Nothing more, nothing less. He stood out b/c he is English and the English don’t produce many players like him. So any English player with half-decent skills is usually the “best in the world”. A Barca player said recently (probably Xavi, I can’t remember) that if Scholes played in Spain, he would have been just like many others b/c there are so many players like him in Spain. But b/c he played in England he looked like a rare breed.

One thing most of you don’t recognise is that when players speak to the English press, they are effusive in their praise of English players. Frank de Boer revealed this many years ago.

If Scholes was as good as the hype, he would have stood out in at least one WC or Euros. The claim that England didn’t use him well is bull from the English media, who can’t figure out why overhyped EPL “stars” flop at tournaments. The reason Scholes and England failed consistently is simple. They weren’t good enough.

[Al B Sure]

Iniesta going to get Scholesy's jersey most have just been a coincidence.



Oh and Fabregas 'Tweeting' about 6 weeks ago that Paul Scholes is a legend must have been just another PC statement.

[Prince]

Scholes was a good player with a very good shot and decent range of passing. Nothing more, nothing less. He stood out b/c he is English and the English don’t produce many players like him. So any English player with half-decent skills is usually the “best in the world”. A Barca player said recently (probably Xavi, I can’t remember) that if Scholes played in Spain, he would have been just like many others b/c there are so many players like him in Spain. But b/c he played in England he looked like a rare breed.

One thing most of you don’t recognise is that when players speak to the English press, they are effusive in their praise of English players. Frank de Boer revealed this many years ago.

If Scholes was as good as the hype, he would have stood out in at least one WC or Euros. The claim that England didn’t use him well is bull from the English media, who can’t figure out why overhyped EPL “stars” flop at tournaments. The reason Scholes and England failed consistently is simple. They weren’t good enough.

One my scottish friend was waxing lyrical about one JimBaxter,
I couldnt find it in my heart to tell the guy that Pele was yearning opaks each country get im own
He was a great man and a genius on the ball."[5] Allegedly Pelé once said that Baxter should have been a Brazilian.[9] After Baxter's performance in the 1963 "rest of the world" vs England match

[cic old boy]

One my scottish friend was waxing lyrical about one JimBaxter,
I couldnt find it in my heart to tell the guy that Pele was yearning opaks each country get im own
He was a great man and a genius on the ball."[5] Allegedly Pelé once said that Baxter should have been a Brazilian.[9] After Baxter's performance in the 1963 "rest of the world" vs England match

An Irish guy told me that even Pele agreed that George Best was better than him.

[Prince]

One my scottish friend was waxing lyrical about one JimBaxter,
I couldnt find it in my heart to tell the guy that Pele was yearning opaks each country get im own
He was a great man and a genius on the ball."[5] Allegedly Pelé once said that Baxter should have been a Brazilian.[9] After Baxter's performance in the 1963 "rest of the world" vs England match

An Irish guy told me that even Pele agreed that George Best was better than him.

Maradonna good, Pele better, George Best

[Waffiman]

One my scottish friend was waxing lyrical about one JimBaxter,
I couldnt find it in my heart to tell the guy that Pele was yearning opaks each country get im own
He was a great man and a genius on the ball."[5] Allegedly Pelé once said that Baxter should have been a Brazilian.[9] After Baxter's performance in the 1963 "rest of the world" vs England match

An Irish guy told me that even Pele agreed that George Best was better than him.

I have heard that one too.

[wiseone]

CIC, Xavi actually said the opposite. That Scholes would be MORE appreciated if he was Spanish.

[cchinukw]

Great player. In his early years a goal scoring midfielder with a fearsome shot, in the latter years a playmaker in CM. Throughout his passing has always been impecible. As usual England didn't make the most out of his talents, shamelessly dumping him on the left wing for Euro 2004.

I hope you will applaud like this for Sierra Leone when una eventually qualify for ANC o.

[tippy]

If his name was Paulo Scholsini now, come and see how CEs would have been agreeing. It pains some of you too much to give an English player credit. The irony is that someone like Socrates who's mentioned here, really what did he achieve? Led a brazilian team that played scintilliating football but won nothing? I assume you'll be giving Arsenal a pass then?

[wiseone]

Lionel Messi: "At La Masia (Barcelona' Academy), his name was mentioned a lot. He's a teacher".

[wiseone]

For those that still doubt Scholes' quality. Listen to what Pep Guardiola said about him. He was asked which Man U player he most admired and instantly said Scholes - no hesitation. He went so far as to say he wished he could find a way to sign Scholes before he retires (this was before Scholes retired).

[/video]

[cic old boy]

Scholes was a good player with a very good shot and decent range of passing. Nothing more, nothing less. He stood out b/c he is English and the English don’t produce many players like him. So any English player with half-decent skills is usually the “best in the world”. A Barca player said recently (probably Xavi, I can’t remember) that if Scholes played in Spain, he would have been just like many others b/c there are so many players like him in Spain. But b/c he played in England he looked like a rare breed.

One thing most of you don’t recognise is that when players speak to the English press, they are effusive in their praise of English players. Frank de Boer revealed this many years ago.

If Scholes was as good as the hype, he would have stood out in at least one WC or Euros. The claim that England didn’t use him well is bull from the English media, who can’t figure out why overhyped EPL “stars” flop at tournaments. The reason Scholes and England failed consistently is simple. They weren’t good enough.

Scholes was interviewed in this week's Sport magazine and he agrees with me.

The greatest midfielder? It's got to be Zidane. I played against him four or five times and he was on another level. The one game that stands out was in the Champions League at the Bernabeu in 2003, when we lost 3-1 and he was pretty much unplayable. They all were that night, but he was on another level. His control of the ball, his movement.. he could bring it down in an instant, play one-twos, the ball just seemed to be tied to his foot. He'd glide around, taking the ball anywhere, any side, either foot, scoring goals, creating goals. He was incredible. And it wasn't against Mickey Mouse teams; he was playing at the highest level against the best players in the world and making them look stupid. You'd just gasp at what he could do. What did the boss tell us to do about him? We all knew what Zidane was capable of so it wasn't like he needed to brief us, plus United weren't the kind of team that would put two men on anyone. We'd play our game and let them worry about us. But against Zidane, all you could do was stay switched on for the whole game and get in there and try and shake him off his stride. He'd still make you look stupid, but you just had to get in there. We had Ronny Johnsen at United, who was a brilliant one-to-one marker, so I guess he probably got closer to Zidane than I ever did. Or at least as close as anyone ever could.

What did I make of Xavi calling me the best central midfielder of the last 20 years?

I find it very nice, unbelievably nice, when there's people of that ilk saying it, but I don't agree with it because if I was the best midfielder of my generation then England would have done better than we did. I did well for United, but when it comes down to wining World Cup finals and winning things, the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane...they won it all with their countries. They're the proper players. I've never met Xavi, never spoken to him, which I regret a bit. It would be good to talk to both him and Iniesta - and watch them train and see what they do, because they play football the right way. They're a joy to watch. Iniesta has the pace to go past players more than Xavi, but that's not Xavi's game, he controls the tempo of the game, which is a very different skill.

[tfco]

just wondering if this slightly edited statement would also hold.

I find it very nice, unbelievably nice, when there's people of that ilk saying it, but I don't agree with it because if I was the best player of my generation then Argentinawould have done better than we did. I did well for Barca, but when it comes down to wining World Cup finals and winning things, the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane...they won it all with their countries. They're the proper players. .....

[cic old boy]

just wondering if this slightly edited statement would also hold.

I find it very nice, unbelievably nice, when there's people of that ilk saying it, but I don't agree with it because if I was the best player of my generation then Argentinawould have done better than we did. I did well for Barca, but when it comes down to wining World Cup finals and winning things, the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane...they won it all with their countries. They're the proper players. .....

You EPL groupies don't know the first thing about football. Messi is 24 and arguably has not reached his peak. Maradona won the WC at 26. So did Zidane. And on natural ability alone, those players stood head and shoulders above players of their generation (see how Scholes described Zizou). Messi does this right now. You couldn't say the same thing about Scholes.