Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

I was with you until you mentioned Vassell. :shock: Man Utd have inflicted some of their attacking malaise on themselves by signing attacking players with no pace (Mata, RVP) and selling or loaning out the few players with pace they already had (Nani, Zaha, Welbeck). Zaha could be a good long term prospect if he could sort out if his off-field problems.

I agree with you that slow based tiki-taka is not in Man Utd's DNA. For the past quarter of a century the team's style of play has been a manifestation of Ferguson's personality on the pitch: daring, fast, adventurous, risk-taking, cavalier. Real Madrid's former coach Vicente Del Bosque once referred to it as Man Utd'd "tactical anarchy" (AKA they were quite willing to go toe to toe with anyone, never took a backward step, and were willing to dam* the consequences).
Coach wrote:Tactically, United do not have the setup to lay siege to Precinct 13 let alone a West Midland's rearguard, midwinter. In days of old the ball would be flying out to the flanks for marauding runners to hit the byline and throw it into the box. Today, their game is perhaps more cerebral, with slow transmissions at the synapses. Van Gaal is still trying to sell the world his 3-5-2, despite United's DNA baring the genetic code of its exact antithesis. Its all too slow on the Mancunian front, but, that said, they're picking up points, getting some wind under the sails and could well take off, with a little tinker. A few pacey blacks and they're back in business, Big Yannick Bolasie one side, Wilfred Zaha the other....zoooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!! Darius Vassell through the middle, still got it over the first 20 yards!
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Coach
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by Coach »

^Two words, Carl Froch and yet Van Gaal is asking them to win it on the scorecards...Toe to toe, flat noses and puffy eyes.
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benteke
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

wiseone wrote:I was with you until you mentioned Vassell. :shock: Man Utd have inflicted some of their attacking malaise on themselves by signing attacking players with no pace (Mata, RVP) and selling or loaning out the few players with pace they already had (Nani, Zaha, Welbeck). Zaha could be a good long term prospect if he could sort out if his off-field problems.

I agree with you that slow based tiki-taka is not in Man Utd's DNA. For the past quarter of a century the team's style of play has been a manifestation of Ferguson's personality on the pitch: daring, fast, adventurous, risk-taking, cavalier. Real Madrid's former coach Vicente Del Bosque once referred to it as Man Utd'd "tactical anarchy" (AKA they were quite willing to go toe to toe with anyone, never took a backward step, and were willing to dam* the consequences).
Coach wrote:Tactically, United do not have the setup to lay siege to Precinct 13 let alone a West Midland's rearguard, midwinter. In days of old the ball would be flying out to the flanks for marauding runners to hit the byline and throw it into the box. Today, their game is perhaps more cerebral, with slow transmissions at the synapses. Van Gaal is still trying to sell the world his 3-5-2, despite United's DNA baring the genetic code of its exact antithesis. Its all too slow on the Mancunian front, but, that said, they're picking up points, getting some wind under the sails and could well take off, with a little tinker. A few pacey blacks and they're back in business, Big Yannick Bolasie one side, Wilfred Zaha the other....zoooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!! Darius Vassell through the middle, still got it over the first 20 yards!
we still have some pace in Young, Valencia, Rooney, and RVP its a myth that he is slow.
3-5-2 is there because we have morons like Evans and Jones, it says a lot when Ashley Young is the most composed defender at times.
This is the reason 3-5-2 is in place, and the problems originate in shaky and injured defence and as such we have to sacrifice some stuff up front like the luxury of playing 2 pacey wide men with overlapping fullbacks in Rafael and Shaw, and that is when Man Utd dna is most dangerous
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wiseone
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

:rotf: pure wickedness (bold text below).
Young and Valencia's pace is not much of a threat when they are playing as full backs. Rooney's attacking threat is nullified when he is asked to play deep in midfield, faffing about collecting passes from his own defenders rather than marauding in the final third of the pitch.

Man Utd will be a far more dangerous proposition with Di Maria and Nani out wide, Rooney in attack, and Zaha and Valencia on the bench to come on in case any opposing defences refuse to cooperate.
benteke wrote: we still have some pace in Young, Valencia, Rooney, and RVP its a myth that he is slow.
3-5-2 is there because we have morons like Evans and Jones, it says a lot when Ashley Young is the most composed defender at times.
This is the reason 3-5-2 is in place, and the problems originate in shaky and injured defence and as such we have to sacrifice some stuff up front like the luxury of playing 2 pacey wide men with overlapping fullbacks in Rafael and Shaw, and that is when Man Utd dna is most dangerous
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

wiseone wrote::rotf: pure wickedness (bold text below).
Young and Valencia's pace is not much of a threat when they are playing as full backs. Rooney's attacking threat is nullified when he is asked to play deep in midfield, faffing about collecting passes from his own defenders rather than marauding in the final third of the pitch.

Man Utd will be a far more dangerous proposition with Di Maria and Nani out wide, Rooney in attack, and Zaha and Valencia on the bench to come on in case any opposing defences refuse to cooperate.
benteke wrote: we still have some pace in Young, Valencia, Rooney, and RVP its a myth that he is slow.
3-5-2 is there because we have morons like Evans and Jones, it says a lot when Ashley Young is the most composed defender at times.
This is the reason 3-5-2 is in place, and the problems originate in shaky and injured defence and as such we have to sacrifice some stuff up front like the luxury of playing 2 pacey wide men with overlapping fullbacks in Rafael and Shaw, and that is when Man Utd dna is most dangerous
that fool Moyes sold Zaha, Fabio, and we could have done with Vidic's experience, declined as he was, he was 2 times better than Evans and Jones who are always injured and error prone

Talking bout pace, have u seen that Dortmund guy, Abameyang, now thats would be a smart buy if Nani and Januzaj dont work out
Abameyang is one of the most devastating on counter attack, his pace is frightening, suprised none seems interested in him
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by marko »

man united injury crisis continues, funny enough, i thought after we equalised against Aston Villa, we will go on to win the game, Ashley young was looking dangerous from the left flank until he switched to the right where he was not effective, even Van persie should have stayed on the pitch, well its nearly January, we need some solid defenders
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by cchinukw »

Confused Manure fan. Why ya name be benteke? :taunt: :taunt:
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wiseone
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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Well Zaha is technically on loan at Palace. He is still contracted to Man Utd. Selling Fabio was odd as he was (when the Twins first arrived) rated a better prospect than his brother Rafael. To be fair to Moyes, Vidic decided to leave on a Bosman and ran his contract down. Nothing Moyes could have done to stop him from leaving (except perhaps not be the manager of Man Utd). If Vida knew LVG would take over the next season, I doubt he would have left.
benteke wrote: that fool Moyes sold Zaha, Fabio, and we could have done with Vidic's experience, declined as he was, he was 2 times better than Evans and Jones who are always injured and error prone

Talking bout pace, have u seen that Dortmund guy, Abameyang, now thats would be a smart buy if Nani and Januzaj dont work out
Abameyang is one of the most devastating on counter attack, his pace is frightening, suprised none seems interested in him
Last edited by wiseone on Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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benteke
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

grandverve wrote:I think our opposition scouts needs to be changed. The number of times LvG has had to change tactics or personnel by HT that isn't because of injury is worrying. It's either that or LvG has a knack for picking the wrong players in his starting XI
this is what i like about Van Gaal, if things are not going well on the pitch, he reacts decisively to improve our fortunes, and this will help a grea deal going forward
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

wiseone wrote:Well Zaha is technically on loan at Palace. He is still contracted to Man Utd. Selling Fabio was odd as he was (when the Twins first arrived) rater a better prospect than his brother Rafael. To be fair to Moyes, Vidic decided to leave on a Bosman and ran his contract down. Nothing Moyes could have done to stop him from leaving (except perhaps not be the manager of Man Utd). If Vida knew LVG would take over the next season, I doubt he would have left.
:agree:

However this whole defence shenanigans once again highlights to me how mighty Rio and Vidic were, biased as i am, i am honestly of the opinion that this is one of the best defensive partnerships ever in recent times of football
In the last 7 or so seasons, these 2 rocks played without a proper high level DM protecting them, most times with just a 2 man midfield in front of them, and they used to shut out everything with ease, win titles and even went on some record clean sheet run in the Champions league.
All other defensive partnerships of note had an elite DM sitting in front of them, most had 2 such DMs.
We will never replace the legends that are Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic at their peak, those are the people who won us Titles.
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

That is the problem. Defenders of the calibre of Vida, Rio, and Stam do not grow on trees. Right now the only central defenders in the whole world who are at that level are Kompany, Pique, Hummels, and Varane.

Your point about them keeping clean sheets despite having little defensive midfield cover is very astute. You have to remember that in the 2009 season, Man Utd set a clean sheet record by going 1311 minutes without conceding a goal (14 consecutive games without conceding a goal :shock: )

All the more amazing that the midfield "protection" in front of Rio and Vida consisted of Ronaldo (when he could be bothered to track back into midfield), Scholes, Giggs, and Carrick. Allied to two attacking full backs who played like wingers (Rafael and Evra), Man Utd pretty much played 2-5-3 that season, and yet Vida, Van der Sar, and Rio kept 14 clean sheets in a row.

benteke wrote:
However this whole defence shenanigans once again highlights to me how mighty Rio and Vidic were, biased as i am, i am honestly of the opinion that this is one of the best defensive partnerships ever in recent times of football
In the last 7 or so seasons, these 2 rocks played without a proper high level DM protecting them, most times with just a 2 man midfield in front of them, and they used to shut out everything with ease, win titles and even went on some record clean sheet run in the Champions league.
All other defensive partnerships of note had an elite DM sitting in front of them, most had 2 such DMs.
We will never replace the legends that are Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic at their peak, those are the people who won us Titles.
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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wiseone wrote:That is the problem. Defenders of the calibre of Vida, Rio, and Stam do not grow on trees. Right now the only central defenders in the whole world who are at that level are Kompany, Pique, Hummels, and Varane.

Your point about them keeping clean sheets despite having little defensive midfield cover is very astute. You have to remember that in the 2009 season, Man Utd set a clean sheet record by going 1311 minutes without conceding a goal (14 consecutive games without conceding a goal :shock: )

All the more amazing that the midfield "protection" in front of Rio and Vida consisted of Ronaldo (when he could be bothered to track back into midfield), Scholes, Giggs, and Carrick. Allied to two attacking full backs who played like wingers (Rafael and Evra), Man Utd pretty much played 2-5-3 that season, and yet Vida, Van der Sar, and Rio kept 14 clean sheets in a row.
and then somebody at the club had the bright idea to allow all of Rio, Vidic and Evra to all leave at once without having identified proper replacements, all that wealth of experience gone at once, at least one should have stayed on, like Terry at Chelsea

De Gea is now as instrumental as Van Der Saar, but some detractors think its luck :rotf:
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wiseone
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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You are right. Selling 5 defenders in the space of 6 months was not a mark of genius (Rio, Vida, Evra, Fabio, Buttner), especially when the ones left behind have long and distinguished injury records.

If I had to "lose" 3 current Man Utd players and get realistic replacements, they would be:

Sell: Evans, Mata, Falcao
Buy: Shawcross, Reus, Pogba

...and Januzaj should "swap places" with Zaha (Januzaj to go on loan, Zaha to come back from loan).
benteke wrote: and then somebody at the club had the bright idea to allow all of Rio, Vidic and Evra to all leave at once without having identified proper replacements, all that wealth of experience gone at once, at least one should have stayed on, like Terry at Chelsea

De Gea is now as instrumental as Van Der Saar, but some detractors think its luck :rotf:
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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penalties so far

For: zero
Against: FOUR

Yup, we are not getting into attacking spaces in the opposition box.

Meanwhile we're conceding silly fouls ( 2 v Leicester in that Clattenberg farce, 1 v Everton and 1 yesterday v Newcastle)

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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:That is the problem. Defenders of the calibre of Vida, Rio, and Stam do not grow on trees. Right now the only central defenders in the whole world who are at that level are Kompany, Pique, Hummels, and Varane.

Your point about them keeping clean sheets despite having little defensive midfield cover is very astute. You have to remember that in the 2009 season, Man Utd set a clean sheet record by going 1311 minutes without conceding a goal (14 consecutive games without conceding a goal :shock: )

All the more amazing that the midfield "protection" in front of Rio and Vida consisted of Ronaldo (when he could be bothered to track back into midfield), Scholes, Giggs, and Carrick. Allied to two attacking full backs who played like wingers (Rafael and Evra), Man Utd pretty much played 2-5-3 that season, and yet Vida, Van der Sar, and Rio kept 14 clean sheets in a row.
and then somebody at the club had the bright idea to allow all of Rio, Vidic and Evra to all leave at once without having identified proper replacements, all that wealth of experience gone at once, at least one should have stayed on, like Terry at Chelsea

De Gea is now as instrumental as Van Der Saar, but some detractors think its luck :rotf:
You have to admit, as good as they were, they had past their prime. They were easily beaten, out paced. and could no longer keep up with the pace of the game. Rio still does the same mistakes as QPR.
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wiseone
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

Rio had come to the end of the road at Man Utd. Evra had 1-2 more good seasons left in him. Fabio had another 10 good years left in him!
bamenda boy wrote: You have to admit, as good as they were, they had past their prime. They were easily beaten, out paced. and could no longer keep up with the pace of the game. Rio still does the same mistakes as QPR.
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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bamenda boy wrote: You have to admit, as good as they were, they had past their prime. They were easily beaten, out paced. and could no longer keep up with the pace of the game. Rio still does the same mistakes as QPR.

like i said, they were past their peak, but what worries me is that the so called replacements like Evans, Jones actually make the same mistakes, they are so error prone they get outpaced very often despite being young
My main point was, we could have done with one of them staying behind, i mean even the slow & old John Terry is still of good use to Chelsea
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by anointed »

bamenda boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:That is the problem. Defenders of the calibre of Vida, Rio, and Stam do not grow on trees. Right now the only central defenders in the whole world who are at that level are Kompany, Pique, Hummels, and Varane.

Your point about them keeping clean sheets despite having little defensive midfield cover is very astute. You have to remember that in the 2009 season, Man Utd set a clean sheet record by going 1311 minutes without conceding a goal (14 consecutive games without conceding a goal :shock: )

All the more amazing that the midfield "protection" in front of Rio and Vida consisted of Ronaldo (when he could be bothered to track back into midfield), Scholes, Giggs, and Carrick. Allied to two attacking full backs who played like wingers (Rafael and Evra), Man Utd pretty much played 2-5-3 that season, and yet Vida, Van der Sar, and Rio kept 14 clean sheets in a row.
and then somebody at the club had the bright idea to allow all of Rio, Vidic and Evra to all leave at once without having identified proper replacements, all that wealth of experience gone at once, at least one should have stayed on, like Terry at Chelsea

De Gea is now as instrumental as Van Der Saar, but some detractors think its luck :rotf:
You have to admit, as good as they were, they had past their prime. They were easily beaten, out paced. and could no longer keep up with the pace of the game. Rio still does the same mistakes as QPR.
I shudder that this guy just keeps harping on Rio and Vidic. Didn't we see what they did in UCL against the likes of Shaktar? Those guys couldn't just keep up withhe pace and standard any more. Every good thing has to end.
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

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BTW, Man Utd are rumoured to be in the market for Vidic anyway.
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

Man Utd might miss out on top 4 because of those clowns Jones and Evans

and we look very blunt up front, i dont know whats wrong
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

Evans looks so shaky. Bullied in the air by Crouch and Shawcross, and unsettled by Diouf's pace.
Today was a good contrast - comparing the youth team defender that Man Utd kept (Evans) against the one they got rid of (Shawcross)...

benteke wrote:Man Utd might miss out on top 4 because of those clowns Jones and Evans

and we look very blunt up front, i dont know whats wrong
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by benteke »

now that Luke Shaw is back from injury , Ashley Young is now out with a hamstring
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Re: Manchester United - news & developments 2014/2015 seaso

Post by wiseone »

Evans looks so shaky at times I wonder if he is auditioning for a part-time role in Arsenal's defence.
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