Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

[wiseone]

Bryan Robson made an astute observation: that the injury crisis was exacerbated by LVG getting rid of too many squad players (he mentioned Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans) that could have come in and helped out to cover for injured players.

[kalani JR]

De Gea is reportedly in the middle of some serious $#%.

[YemiBrazil]

De Gea is reportedly in the middle of some serious $#%.

Wow - just read it. This is not looking good at all. De Gea is in deep sh$t and with all the endorsement deals in football it will be interesting to see how United handle this. Are they going to eventually throw him under the bus to protect the brand? Jeez our Dave!

[wiseone]

Spanish journalist Guillem Balague denied claims that DDG has been sent home. He said DDG is still at the Spanish team hotel and will give a press conference in the next 30 minutes.

[oloye]

Some of these players kpa! In this day and age,one would think these boys would put their thinking cap on. Shioor!

[Eaglezbeak]

[amafolas]

Bryan Robson made an astute observation: that the injury crisis was exacerbated by LVG getting rid of too many squad players (he mentioned Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans) that could have come in and helped out to cover for injured players.

Biggest difference btw the great Ferguson and LVG. All of Fergie's championship winning teams had mid-table level players getting regular minutes. They were squadies that worked hard and covered for injuries. Fergie had stars, but he also always had reliable steady players that at best should be playing for the likes of Everton. (Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, quinton fortune, Park Ji SUng, Antonia valencia, Fletcher etc)

[wiseone]

Exactly. In some ways, those squad players are vital to the stability of the club. They are not going to win European Footballer of The Year, but can be relied upon to play 20-25 games a season, put in a solid shift and not let the team down (and not throw a tantrum if they are told to sit on the bench for a few games). This is why guys like O'Shea, Butt, David May, and Fletcher have won more EPL titles than Thierry Henry and Sergio Aguero.

People keep saying "ah, Welbeck is a wastepipe" and that Man U did not need him. Man Utd missed the CL on goal difference. Do we think Man Utd could have eeked out a few more points if they had experienced players like Welbeck, Rafael, Fletcher, and Nani to call into the team when they had those horrendous injury crises with 15-16 first team players simultaneously injured? Would those guys have performed better than inexperienced kids like Will Keane, Riley, Varela?

The experience of established EPL players like Fletch, Rafa, and Welbeck would have helped Man Utd concentrate for a few more seconds and avoid the late goals they conceded against Newcastle, Chelsea, and West Ham (in particular) that cost them a place in the CL.

Biggest difference btw the great Ferguson and LVG. All of Fergie's championship winning teams had mid-table level players getting regular minutes. They were squadies that worked hard and covered for injuries. Fergie had stars, but he also always had reliable steady players that at best should be playing for the likes of Everton. (Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, quinton fortune, Park Ji SUng, Antonia valencia, Fletcher etc)

[wiseone]

Dortmund's Henrikh Mkhitaryan wants to move to MUFC. His agent Mino Raiola said “He wants to go to Man Utd and Dortmund know it. We're trying to resolve the situation. We're still talking."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... e-11486594

[Vincent.]

Bryan Robson made an astute observation: that the injury crisis was exacerbated by LVG getting rid of too many squad players (he mentioned Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans) that could have come in and helped out to cover for injured players.

Robson was wrong. He would be right only if those players that were sold were not replaced. They were replaced with new signings or youth players. You know, all the 200 million that LVG was accused of spending was actually spent on over 10 new players. Many of those new signings and youth players were among the 16 that got injured simultaneously (so all or some out of Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans would also probably have been injured too).

Additionally, the reason youth players had opportunities in the first team is because players like RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans were sold. With them still in the squad, they would have been the ones sitting on the bench instead of Rashford and the other kids.

You cannot have your cake and eat it - if you want promising talents like Rashford and co to have opportunities in the first team, you have to create the opportunity by getting rid of the average players (Hernandez, Fletcher, and Evans) and declining stars (RVP and co).

People need to be humble enough to give Van Gaal credit for the rise of the youth players. To do that, you have to acknowledge that the youth got their chance because he cleared out the deadwood. You cannot welcome the promotion of youth while simultaneously complaining about the selling of the deadwood.

Another important issue: when Van Gaal started trying and coaching Rooney to play in midfield, everybody complained that LVG was confused, he did not know what he was doing, etc. Now that Rooney is doing rather well in midfield for Man U and England, everyone is praising Rooney but nobody acknowledges they were wrong about LVG having the vision to try him there.

[wiseone]

I am not sure LVG had a fluid plan as you outlined below.

1) The introduction of young players like Rashford was an accident he stumbled upon. Rashford was not on LVG's radar until the horrific injury crisis that left 16 first team players injured simultaneously. He had no choice but to play Rashford because all the other attackers (Rooney, Martial, Fellaini) and even their back ups (Keane, Young) were either injured or out on loan (Wilson).

2) Rooney playing in midfield was not part of an LVG master plan either. He had to play Rooney in midfield when he returned from injury because Rashford's spectacular form (4 goals in his first 2 games) made him undroppable and he would have had a mutiny on his hands if he dropped Rashford or left his captain Rooney out of the first 11. Ergo Rooney had to be squeezed into midfield as the only way of playing him and Rashford at the same time.

3) You say LVG replaced the players he sold. I am not sure that is true. He sold 8 attackers (RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Di Maria, Falcao, Nani, Henriquez, Zaha) and bought only 2 to replace them (Martial and Depay). That left a deficit of 6 attackers. Even the players he did "replace" were replaced by inferior players. Is Depay a better player than Di Maria? Is Herrera really a 29 million upgrade on Kagawa or Cleverley?

4) For all the talk of LVG's courage of "putting youngsters in the first team", apart from Rashford what other youth team players were playing in the first 11 every week? (I do not count Lingard (who is nearly in his mid-20s!) as a "youngster").

Robson was wrong. He would be right only if those players that were sold were not replaced. They were replaced with new signings or youth players. You know, all the 200 million that LVG was accused of spending was actually spent on over 10 new players. Many of those new signings and youth players were among the 16 that got injured simultaneously (so all or some out of Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans would also probably have been injured too).

Additionally, the reason youth players had opportunities in the first team is because players like RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans were sold. With them still in the squad, they would have been the ones sitting on the bench instead of Rashford and the other kids.

You cannot have your cake and eat it - if you want promising talents like Rashford and co to have opportunities in the first team, you have to create the opportunity by getting rid of the average players (Hernandez, Fletcher, and Evans) and declining stars (RVP and co).

People need to be humble enough to give Van Gaal credit for the rise of the youth players. To do that, you have to acknowledge that the youth got their chance because he cleared out the deadwood. You cannot welcome the promotion of youth while simultaneously complaining about the selling of the deadwood.

Another important issue: when Van Gaal started trying and coaching Rooney to play in midfield, everybody complained that LVG was confused, he did not know what he was doing, etc. Now that Rooney is doing rather well in midfield for Man U and England, everyone is praising Rooney but nobody acknowledges they were wrong about LVG having the vision to try him there.

[Vincent.]

I am not sure LVG had a fluid plan as you outlined below.

1) The introduction of young players like Rashford was an accident he stumbled upon. Rashford was not on LVG's radar until the horrific injury crisis that left 16 first team players injured simultaneously. He had no choice but to play Rashford because all the other attackers (Rooney, Martial, Fellaini) and even their back ups (Keane, Young) were either injured or out on loan (Wilson).

2) Rooney playing in midfield was not part of an LVG master plan either. He had to play Rooney in midfield when he returned from injury because Rashford's spectacular form (4 goals in his first 2 games) made him undroppable and he would have had a mutiny on his hands if he dropped Rashford or left his captain Rooney out of the first 11. Ergo Rooney had to be squeezed into midfield as the only way of playing him and Rashford at the same time.

3) You say LVG replaced the players he sold. I am not sure that is true. He sold 8 attackers (RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Di Maria, Falcao, Nani, Henriquez, Zaha) and bought only 2 to replace them (Martial and Depay). That left a deficit of 6 attackers. Even the players he did "replace" were replaced by inferior players. Is Depay a better player than Di Maria? Is Herrera really a 29 million upgrade on Kagawa or Cleverley?

4) For all the talk of LVG's courage of "putting youngsters in the first team", apart from Rashford what other youth team players were playing in the first 11 every week? (I do not count Lingard (who is nearly in his mid-20s!) as a "youngster").

Robson was wrong. He would be right only if those players that were sold were not replaced. They were replaced with new signings or youth players. You know, all the 200 million that LVG was accused of spending was actually spent on over 10 new players. Many of those new signings and youth players were among the 16 that got injured simultaneously (so all or some out of Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans would also probably have been injured too).

Additionally, the reason youth players had opportunities in the first team is because players like RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher, Evans were sold. With them still in the squad, they would have been the ones sitting on the bench instead of Rashford and the other kids.

You cannot have your cake and eat it - if you want promising talents like Rashford and co to have opportunities in the first team, you have to create the opportunity by getting rid of the average players (Hernandez, Fletcher, and Evans) and declining stars (RVP and co).

People need to be humble enough to give Van Gaal credit for the rise of the youth players. To do that, you have to acknowledge that the youth got their chance because he cleared out the deadwood. You cannot welcome the promotion of youth while simultaneously complaining about the selling of the deadwood.

Another important issue: when Van Gaal started trying and coaching Rooney to play in midfield, everybody complained that LVG was confused, he did not know what he was doing, etc. Now that Rooney is doing rather well in midfield for Man U and England, everyone is praising Rooney but nobody acknowledges they were wrong about LVG having the vision to try him there.

1) The introduction of young players like Rashford was an accident he stumbled upon. Rashford was not on LVG's radar until the horrific injury crisis that left 16 first team players injured simultaneously. He had no choice but to play Rashford because all the other attackers (Rooney, Martial, Fellaini) and even their back ups (Keane, Young) were either injured or out on loan (Wilson).

Are you sure? I have heard that argument in the media but I doubt that a manager with 40 years experience just decided to sell all his experienced strikers without a backup plan. Rashford was an unused substitute for Man United against Watford as early as November 21, 2015, which was before the injury reached epidemic proportions in January. This was the lineup on that day:

Manchester United: De Gea; Young, Jones, Smalling, Blind; Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger; Mata, Herrera, Lingard; Memphis
Substitutes : Rojo, Romero, McNair, Darmian, Rashford, Pereira, Goss
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34818136

LVG himself was quoted as saying that his plan was always to involve the youth players. I believe him because that is what he has done in his previous clubs - Ajax (where he won the CL with a bunch of kids), Barca (where he promoted Puyol, Iniesta, Xavi, Valdes, Gbenga Okunowo, and many others from the youth team ), and Bayern (where he brought Alaba, Muller, etc from the youth teams).

The reality is that if LVG had not sold the likes of Hernadez and Wellbeck, the likes of Rashford would have had their paths to the first team blocked despite the 15-16 injuries. Hernandez and Welbeck would have played when those 15-16 injuries happened and Rashford would never have had a chance. He would probably have been snapped up by Man City. So, no matter how Robson cuts it, Rashford got his chance because the likes of Hernandez, Welbeck, Falcao were not there to cover for those injuries and LVG made the CONSCIOUS DECISION not to buy replacements.

2) Rooney playing in midfield was not part of an LVG master plan either. He had to play Rooney in midfield when he returned from injury because Rashford's spectacular form (4 goals in his first 2 games) made him undroppable and he would have had a mutiny on his hands if he dropped Rashford or left his captain Rooney out of the first 11. Ergo Rooney had to be squeezed into midfield as the only way of playing him and Rashford at the same time.

It was not part of the ORIGINAL plan, but a coach's job is to find solutions and that is what he did. He was NOT OBLIGED to play Rooney in midfield. He was never a midfielder. He did not play midfield even when RVP was playing center forward. Playing Rooney in midfield was not the OBVIOUS option. He could have played Rooney at No. 10 and dropped Mata to the wing or pushed Rooney to the wing (as Ferguson sometimes did to accommodate RVP). Instead, he had the idea that Rooney could do something in midfield. It did not work out immediately but he persisted despite all the criticism from the media and fans. It worked, so the people who criticized him for trying it should be big enough to give him credit.

3) You say LVG replaced the players he sold. I am not sure that is true. He sold 8 attackers (RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Di Maria, Falcao, Nani, Henriquez, Zaha) and bought only 2 to replace them (Martial and Depay). That left a deficit of 6 attackers. Even the players he did "replace" were replaced by inferior players. Is Depay a better player than Di Maria? Is Herrera really a 29 million upgrade on Kagawa or Cleverley?

See point No. 1. There was no need to buy 6-8 strikers to replace the six that were sold because the idea was that youth players would fill the gaps. In addition to Martial, Depay, Young, and Rooney, he had Lingard and the youth team players. Even Barcelona does not have 8 strikers in the first team. It does not make sense when you have a youth system. At most, you need one experienced striker on the bench and leave the remaining bench space for youth strikers to fill, which is what LVG did.

As for the quality of Depay vs Di Maria, that was not the point of Robson's claim. His claim was that the sale of mid-level players left a gap that was not filled. My argument is that the gaps were filled by new signings and youth players. LVG was just unlucky that 15 players were injured at the same time. That is unusual.

4) For all the talk of LVG's courage of "putting youngsters in the first team", apart from Rashford what other youth team players were playing in the first 11 every week? (I do not count Lingard (who is nearly in his mid-20s!) as a "youngster").

Regardless of age, Lingard is still a product of the youth system. He only just turned 23 five months ago Why keep Hernandez on the bench and send Lingard on loan when Lingard can fill his place on the bench? What about the likes of Jackson-Borthwick and the Ghana/Dutch kid who played lots of games throughout the season? You don't really expect to have half the first team made up of newly promoted youth players. 3-4 newly promoted youth players is a lot for a top team.

[wiseone]

Sky sports have reported that MUFC have agreed a fee of 26.3 million pounds with Dortmund to buy Henrikh Mkhitaryan. If so - Juan Mata may need to find a new employer soon.

[tfco]

Sky sports have reported that MUFC have agreed a fee of 26.3 million pounds with Dortmund to buy Henrikh Mkhitaryan. If so - Juan Mata may need to find a new employer soon.

just saw this on my BB Groups News

BVB fans - Zee and DAngry, vat iz ze news on this guy? He was in the BVB team that destroyed Spuds, yes?

[kajifu]

I can't believe Manu is buying Henrikh Mkhitaryan over Arsenal a CL team.Dam so if Manu start playing CL next year we should forget to sign players they wanted.
Sad that Henrikh Mkhitaryan is an Arsenal fan yet his agent told him its manu or stay in Dortmund.

[YemiBrazil]

I can't believe Manu is buying Henrikh Mkhitaryan over Arsenal a CL team.Dam so if Manu start playing CL next year we should forget to sign players they wanted.
Sad that Henrikh Mkhitaryan is an Arsenal fan yet his agent told him its manu or stay in Dortmund.

Kajifu, form is temporary - missing a few CL won't erase the history of any truly big team

[bamenda boy]

I can't believe Manu is buying Henrikh Mkhitaryan over Arsenal a CL team.Dam so if Manu start playing CL next year we should forget to sign players they wanted.
Sad that Henrikh Mkhitaryan is an Arsenal fan yet his agent told him its manu or stay in Dortmund.

Kajifu, form is temporary - missing a few CL won't erase the history of any truly big team

So Ghana can be mentioned with Naiha, Camair, and Egypt when it comes to ANC Trophies?

[danfo driver]

I can't believe Manu is buying Henrikh Mkhitaryan over Arsenal a CL team.Dam so if Manu start playing CL next year we should forget to sign players they wanted.
Sad that Henrikh Mkhitaryan is an Arsenal fan yet his agent told him its manu or stay in Dortmund.

this one said. "His agent told him " do you live in the real world ? Do you even know the role of an agent. You think an agent who is the employee of the player will be directing a player? stop drinking please.

The player selected United because the player believes the worst of united is better than the best of Arsenal

[wiseone]

Daily Mail is reporting that Ryan Giggs will leave Man Utd after 29 years at the club:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... offer.html

[platinum]

ibrahimovic has confirmed that he's headed to united

[wiseone]

In the world's worst kept secret and slowest moving transfer of the decade. As long as he doesn't disrupt the dressing room with his ego and block the progress of Rashford.

ibrahimovic has confirmed that he's headed to united

[bamenda boy]

In the world's worst kept secret and slowest moving transfer of the decade. As long as he doesn't disrupt the dressing room with his ego and block the progress of Rashford.

ibrahimovic has confirmed that he's headed to united

We actually need someone to let Rooney know that he ain't all that .

[YemiBrazil]

I can't believe Manu is buying Henrikh Mkhitaryan over Arsenal a CL team.Dam so if Manu start playing CL next year we should forget to sign players they wanted.
Sad that Henrikh Mkhitaryan is an Arsenal fan yet his agent told him its manu or stay in Dortmund.

Kajifu, form is temporary - missing a few CL won't erase the history of any truly big team

So Ghana can be mentioned with Naiha, Camair, and Egypt when it comes to ANC Trophies?

We are talking about the likes of Man United here not Nottingham Forest