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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:16 am 
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Now the honeymoon is over with LVG, in my opinion these next few fixtures are very important that the team gets wins nomatter what, we mess up here with silly draws and a stupid loss or 2 and we can kiss top 4 goodbye coz the teams behind us have so called "easy" run of games coming up as well

It is very important for Manchester United to get maximum points from these games, because what comes after the Spurs game is a very difficult run against many top teams and many potential banana slips all the way till end of season
Very important games, maximum points a must !

QPR v Man Utd
Man Utd v Leicester
West Ham v Man Utd
Man Utd v Burnley
Swansea v Man Utd
Man Utd v Sunderland
Newcastle v Man Utd
Man Utd v Spurs


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:21 am 
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Benteke

I agree, the silly strings of draws and losses are not good enough for Top 4...Southampton has now leapfrogged us and Arsenal are breathing down our necks

LVG must ditch the 3-5-2 asap and incorporate in form Falcao into the mix

Rooney must play up top and Di Maria back on the wing where he can do more damage

His formation yesterday was awful

Players were just passing with no penetration... Only Valencia came to play yesterday (and maybe Luke Shaw)

Smalling, Jones...less said the better

Hopefully LVG has seen enough...let's see what we do in the next month or so

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:08 am 
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@Akam, agreed, the set-up yesterday was at best buffoonery. The problem with Van Gaal's 3-5-2 is first and foremost, its undeserved serendipity. Luck hasn't been a lady, rather Louis' concubine, giving her all for the most apathetic of offerings in return. Any claim to orgasm would certainly be contentious and most definitely, fraudulent. United has been poor, but in spite of this, sit within the business room of the Premier League. If not justified by produce, then by paper, theirs is a collection of worldly names and supposed heir apparents to said acclamation, The list reads, in parts, like a who's who of top pedigree players:

Van Persie
Rooney
Juan Mata
Angel Di Maria


Then theres the supposed potential of Luke Shaw, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling; players once upon a time argued to be England's future stalwarts, bullion of the next golden generation. Why has it gotten so rotten? Again, league standings are reasonable, top four, albeit under threat from all comers, but why have United fallen into relative normalcy? There an air of ordinariness about today's United, a farcry from the ravenous beast of old who, with seconds before the bell, was a sure bet to land a huge haymaker, throwing the scorecards into disarray. Many hands have thrown the finger of blame at the 3-5-2, the irony being, only last summer was this system celebrated as the messianic motif they would deliver United's 11 disciples from the road to perdition. How is it that so bright a light neath Christ the Redeemer has become so impious and ignominious? How is that fullbacks given greater licence to go forward as wingbacks, look all the more pathetic for such privilege?

As ingenious as he has been on occasions, the ignorance of the key principle of Guardiolaism or Pepism, is his greater failing and wields great influence over proceedings.

"Don't believe what people say. Barça didn't do tiki-taka! It's completely made up! Don't believe a word of it! In all team sports, the secret is to overload one side of the pitch so that the opponent must tilt its own defence to cope. You overload on one side and draw them in so that they leave the other side weak.

"And when we've done all that, we attack and score from the other side. That's why you have to pass the ball, but only if you're doing it with a clear intention. It's only to overload the opponent, to draw them in and then to hit them with the sucker punch. That's what our game needs to be. Nothing to do with tiki-taka."
(of the all conquering Barcelona era).

Is it any wonder the golden childs of the next golden generation look pathetic, where are the overloads. Luke Shaw, grossly overrated indeed, but surely of the nous of Paul Konchesky atleast to be able to get forward and contribute. Nope, too afraid of being countered, why? Because there's no overload and so, low in esteem and confidence, he pits his skill against his marker or retreats and reneges on those tactical privileges playing at wingback. Van Gaal has got it horribly wrong and funny enough, with a team lacking in runners and movement, a Danny Wellbeck peeling into the channels with pace, offering an overload, would come in handy for both sh*te wingbacks.

Tactically, the 3-5-2's not working, once Luck realises there are bigger d*cks to indulge, the defeats will rack up. If such is the desire to play a back three, then there must be greater emphasis on attacking width and an aggressive press to prevent the obvious weaknesses being exposed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:07 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
The Bale "rumours" are BS. Why would Madrid sell their second best player? Also, why would Bale leave the European Champions, and World Champions, to play for a team that is not in the Champions League? (and not even in the Europa League!)

More realistic transfer targets right now are Khedira, De Jong, Bolasie, and Shawcross.

Bolasie another Sahasque signing ...these players thrive in their habitat, leave them there dont expose them. Taking players like that out of that habitat is akin to taking fish out of water. I have not seen anything in Bolaise to warrant the hype, Saha or is it Zaha did 3 times more than Bolaise did , he fell flat when he got to the big stage. These players lack the tactical discipline required at the biggest stage, ask Januzaj how he is faring once his running trick has become known.

Ditto for Shawncross...he is better than Evans no doubt, but once again ..levels!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:45 pm 
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^In addendum...The game ain't tasting as sweet, Cats flow is stale, and they complacent with beats...

Van Gaal shouldn't be allowed to spend any more money, failing that, the mandate need be a centreback and absolutely no more! Wealth has been squandered amassing a Pro Evo squad with no concept of purpose or intention. 3-5-2, Di Maria to play the Arjen Robben role presumably, Rooney, Wes Sneijder...the success of Holland was the premise for such fallacy. In knockout contest, someone has to throw the first punch and shoulder rolling, the Dutch were able to counter with aplomb, though may be an exaggeration in itself, Spain was the zenith of their innings. Few teams will attack United relentlessly, their history is enough to earn such respect. Those teams that do, tend to soften up the belly at the same time as tenderising the head. Covering up does no more than blind sight.

Tactically, Van Gaal has got it all wrong. If it must be a 3-5-2, then surely there must be an emphasis on the aggressive recovery of possession to allow for its advantages to be effected. More importantly, if there is to be a build up from the back, there needs to be cover for Carrick. Rather than revel in his arrogance, Louis would be wise to revisit the Azzurri's use of this motif. Pirlo is the organ grinder protected by the deployment of De Rossi, who equally shows for the ball, leaving a spare man, should the marker stay with the old master. United are too easy to decipher. The centrehalves are just that, centrehalves, lacking acumen in possession to push forward thus creating an unnecessary overload in the defensive third to the detriment of the attack. The hot potato is shuffled to Carrick as soon as possible and much to the relief of Smalling, Jones and whoever else, the former's marked up, the rest of the field is too far upfield, too sterile and it grinds to a halt.

A 3-2-3-2 would perhaps give Carrick more positional freedom and certainly offer a spare man at the start of the possession phase 3-2 vs 1-3 (of the 4-2-3-1).

Then theres the issue of attacking width and overloads and the glaringly obvious weaknesses of the system in this arena becomes all the more obvious. At present United are making no sense, nonsense to be exact, with no plausible excuse or explanation, there is enough there to effect a fluid, functional system. Whether Jones et al are inept in possession is irrelevant, t'is what is going on ahead of them and what is being done with the other seven outfield players that is causing United's malaise. The 3-5-2 isn't the answer, just as it isn't the plague blighting United's season. Van Gaal is failing and luck, exhausted, will eventually run out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:40 pm 
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oloye wrote:
wiseone wrote:
The Bale "rumours" are BS. Why would Madrid sell their second best player? Also, why would Bale leave the European Champions, and World Champions, to play for a team that is not in the Champions League? (and not even in the Europa League!)

More realistic transfer targets right now are Khedira, De Jong, Bolasie, and Shawcross.

Bolasie another Sahasque signing ...these players thrive in their habitat, leave them there dont expose them. Taking players like that out of that habitat is akin to taking fish out of water. I have not seen anything in Bolaise to warrant the hype, Saha or is it Zaha did 3 times more than Bolaise did , he fell flat when he got to the big stage. These players lack the tactical discipline required at the biggest stage, ask Januzaj how he is faring once his running trick has become known.

Ditto for Shawncross...he is better than Evans no doubt, but once again ..levels!

I like Bolasie bobo get trick,i will take him at Arsenal


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Spot on. 3-5-2 is painful to watch. The players are not used to it, and it makes players play in unfamiliar positions. Rooney is being wasted in midfield. He should be pushed up front where he can do serious damage. Mata seriously slows down the team's play. The team has got better at retaining possession, but I am alarmed at the number of sideways and backwards passes. Please do not let Man Utd turn into a "short back and sides" team.

Phil Neville said something astute during yesterday's commentary. He said that during SAF's era, SAF would tell them to come out all guns blazing and to throw everything at the opposition during the first 20 minutes at OT. The sheer pace and relentless attacking would wear teams down. Neville then noted that LVG has introduced a slower passing based possession style with a slower tempo. The players are not used to it and it is not in the club's DNA.

akamoke wrote:
Benteke
LVG must ditch the 3-5-2 asap and incorporate in form Falcao into the mix

Rooney must play up top and Di Maria back on the wing where he can do more damage

His formation yesterday was awful

Players were just passing with no penetration
... Only Valencia came to play yesterday (and maybe Luke Shaw)

Smalling, Jones...less said the better

Hopefully LVG has seen enough...let's see what we do in the next month or so


Last edited by wiseone on Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:04 pm 
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akamoke wrote:
Benteke

I agree, the silly strings of draws and losses are not good enough for Top 4...Southampton has now leapfrogged us and Arsenal are breathing down our necks

LVG must ditch the 3-5-2 asap and incorporate in form Falcao into the mix

Rooney must play up top and Di Maria back on the wing where he can do more damage

His formation yesterday was awful

Players were just passing with no penetration... Only Valencia came to play yesterday (and maybe Luke Shaw)

Smalling, Jones...less said the better

Hopefully LVG has seen enough...let's see what we do in the next month or so


personally i do not point the finger too much at 3-5-2, because at times i have noticed these players seem to lack urgency to win, they seem relaxed and have an excuse built up in their heads, something i also noticed last year during Moyes era.
Its as if they got it into their minds that it doesnt matter if they dont win the title because top 4 is enough, something that Fergie never allowed to happen

look at the last few draws, those were victories but some players simply wasted the scoring chances they got, they seemed to be ok with a 0-0 draw because we were playing away.
the fact that we are losing games by 1 goal margins is annoying and shows complacency, lack of urgency, the team could do better

its time chances are taken and we score goals, many of them, coz the defence is doing its job
It doesnt bother me much what formation we playin, Mata is a £37million player and should be finishing those 2 chances he missed and we would have been sitting pretty, instead now everyone is making noise about 0 shots on target. Di Maria is £60 million and i hope he finishes whatever falls in his way, free kicks included

otherwise the team will soon find itself under pressure to win every game just to stay in top 4, we blew a big chance to cement 3rd


Last edited by benteke on Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Alarming stat: at this stage last season, Moyes had exactly the same number of points as LVG...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:40 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Alarming stat: at this stage last season, Moyes had exactly the same number of points as LVG...


i take that as one of those sensationalist stats that pop up each time we lose a game
hidden in that stat is that Moyes had already lost 6 games - most of them at OT.
And Moyes was stuck at 7th, the mood was dire.

All this cannot be spinned in any other way, Moyes had taken Champions and thats what he did with them. Most of those Fergie players are now back in great form under LVG - Carrick, Rooney, Young, Valencia, De Gea.

from 21 games onwars, Moyes stats got worse, lets see what happens with LVG


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:43 pm 
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benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Alarming stat: at this stage last season, Moyes had exactly the same number of points as LVG...


i take that as one of those sensationalist stats that pop up each time we lose a game
hidden in that stat is that Moyes had already lost 6 games - most of them at OT.
And Moyes was stuck at 7th, the mood was dire.

All this cannot be spinned in any other way, Moyes had taken Champions and thats what he did with them. Most of those Fergie players are now back in great form under LVG - Carrick, Rooney, Young, Valencia, De Gea.

from 21 games onwars, Moyes stats got worse, lets see what happens with LVG

Did you add the fact that Moyes has to play CL footie and did not have all this world class players around him?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:45 pm 
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kajifu wrote:
benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Alarming stat: at this stage last season, Moyes had exactly the same number of points as LVG...


i take that as one of those sensationalist stats that pop up each time we lose a game
hidden in that stat is that Moyes had already lost 6 games - most of them at OT.
And Moyes was stuck at 7th, the mood was dire.

All this cannot be spinned in any other way, Moyes had taken Champions and thats what he did with them. Most of those Fergie players are now back in great form under LVG - Carrick, Rooney, Young, Valencia, De Gea.

from 21 games onwars, Moyes stats got worse, lets see what happens with LVG

Did you add the fact that Moyes has to play CL footie and did not have all this world class players around him?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Chai, Coach - some of these your quotes were just pure wickedness. :rotf:

Coach wrote:
Luke Shaw, grossly overrated indeed, but surely of the nous of Paul Konchesky atleast to be able to get forward and contribute. Nope, too afraid of being countered, why? Because there's no overload and so, low in esteem and confidence, he pits his skill against his marker or retreats and reneges on those tactical privileges playing at wingback. Van Gaal has got it horribly wrong and funny enough, with a team lacking in runners and movement, a Danny Wellbeck peeling into the channels with pace, offering an overload, would come in handy for both sh*te wingbacks.

Tactically, the 3-5-2's not working, once Luck realises there are bigger d*cks to indulge, the defeats will rack up. If such is the desire to play a back three, then there must be greater emphasis on attacking width and an aggressive press to prevent the obvious weaknesses being exposed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:12 pm 
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kajifu wrote:
benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Alarming stat: at this stage last season, Moyes had exactly the same number of points as LVG...


i take that as one of those sensationalist stats that pop up each time we lose a game
hidden in that stat is that Moyes had already lost 6 games - most of them at OT.
And Moyes was stuck at 7th, the mood was dire.

All this cannot be spinned in any other way, Moyes had taken Champions and thats what he did with them. Most of those Fergie players are now back in great form under LVG - Carrick, Rooney, Young, Valencia, De Gea.

from 21 games onwars, Moyes stats got worse, lets see what happens with LVG

Did you add the fact that Moyes has to play CL footie and did not have all this world class players around him?


yes !

He had reigning Champions, experienced players who won the League before,and he ruined them
I also add that LVG started getting his new signings from the Burnley game, and most of them have not been available for selection for the majority of the time due to injury, 55 injuries or so.

And like i said it a pointless and sensationalist stat that will die a quick death after the next 2 or 3 games, just like how the same kind of stat that was brought up at 4 games simply dissapeared into oblivion together with its cheerleaders :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:56 am 
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wiseone wrote:
Chai, Coach - some of these your quotes were just pure wickedness. :rotf:

Coach wrote:
Luke Shaw, grossly overrated indeed, but surely of the nous of Paul Konchesky atleast to be able to get forward and contribute. Nope, too afraid of being countered, why? Because there's no overload and so, low in esteem and confidence, he pits his skill against his marker or retreats and reneges on those tactical privileges playing at wingback. Van Gaal has got it horribly wrong and funny enough, with a team lacking in runners and movement, a Danny Wellbeck peeling into the channels with pace, offering an overload, would come in handy for both sh*te wingbacks.

Tactically, the 3-5-2's not working, once Luck realises there are bigger d*cks to indulge, the defeats will rack up. If such is the desire to play a back three, then there must be greater emphasis on attacking width and an aggressive press to prevent the obvious weaknesses being exposed.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: There is only one Coach. Wordsmith extraordinaire. No fluke. He will daze you with those lines all year long.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:31 am 
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wiseone wrote:
Spot on. 3-5-2 is painful to watch. The players are not used to it, and it makes players play in unfamiliar positions. Rooney is being wasted in midfield. He should be pushed up front where he can do serious damage. Mata seriously slows down the team's play. The team has got better at retaining possession, but I am alarmed at the number of sideways and backwards passes. Please do not let Man Utd turn into a "short back and sides" team.

Phil Neville said something astute during yesterday's commentary. He said that during SAF's era, SAF would tell them to come out all guns blazing and to throw everything at the opposition during the first 20 minutes at OT. The sheer pace and relentless attacking would wear teams down. Neville then noted that LVG has introduced a slower passing based possession style with a slower tempo. The players are not used to it and it is not in the club's DNA.


i also dont like this 3-5-2 , but if i remember well its there coz our 1st choice RB & LB are always injured, And our Central defence is very shaky too , if im not mistaken ?

but however i dont understand why our players are finding it so hard, Liverpool has also changed to a similar kind of thing, with a back 3 and many players in unfamiliar positions, but they seem to be getting on with it with little fuss, why our expensive squad not adapting nicely after all this time,


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:44 am 
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The records of LVG and Moyes after 21 games visually (very, very, similar):

Moyes: P21 W11 D4 L6 Points:37 Goals: 35 Conceded: 24
LVG: P21 W10 D7 L4 Points:37 Goals: 34 Conceded: 21


Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:11 am 
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Hmm LVG and Moyes get almost same record so far.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:48 am 
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wiseone wrote:
The records of LVG and Moyes after 21 games visually (very, very, similar):

Moyes: P21 W11 D4 L6 Points:37 Goals: 35 Conceded: 24
LVG: P21 W10 D7 L4 Points:37 Goals: 34 Conceded: 21


Image


what stands out there for me is the 7 draws and only 4 losses so far under LVG

Especially the 7 draws

Sunderland - away
Burnley - away
West Brom - away
Chelsea -home
Villa -away
Spurs - away
Stoke away

apart from the Chelsea draw, the rest were easily winnable matches that we only drew because of missed goalscoring chances, especially the last 3 were silly draws, if only chances were taken then this would be a different story.
Who to blame for those missed chances


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:56 am 
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benteke wrote:
Now the honeymoon is over with LVG, in my opinion these next few fixtures are very important that the team gets wins nomatter what, we mess up here with silly draws and a stupid loss or 2 and we can kiss top 4 goodbye coz the teams behind us have so called "easy" run of games coming up as well

It is very important for Manchester United to get maximum points from these games, because what comes after the Spurs game is a very difficult run against many top teams and many potential banana slips all the way till end of season
Very important games, maximum points a must !

QPR v Man Utd
Man Utd v Leicester
West Ham v Man Utd
Man Utd v Burnley
Swansea v Man Utd
Man Utd v Sunderland
Newcastle v Man Utd
Man Utd v Spurs


to highlight the importance of winning the above matches, here is our run in from after spurs game onward

Liverpool v Man Utd
Man Utd v Aston Villa
Man Utd v Man City
Chelsea v Man Utd
Everton v Man Utd
Man Utd v West Brom
Crystal Palace v Man Utd
Man Utd v Arsenal
Hull v Man Utd


and some of those teams might be in relegation scrap which will make them as dangerous as anyone
LVG and his Galacticos will have to earn their money from now onwards


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:41 am 
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Those fixtures na helele....we have to start winning NOW

I thought LVG was a motivator...surely he has access to these information in his notepad

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:13 pm 
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^na only scribble dey for him notepad, no be Lesta wey ask am wetin he put fo' page? Nonsense...notepad, pad thai, Thai bride, bride groom, groom speech, speech mark, Mark Austin, Austin Powers, PowerPoint. :scared:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:41 pm 
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Man Utd got good value in the past by signing players from smaller teams o...

Roy Keane - Notts Forest
Paul Ince, Carlos Tevez - West Ham
Van der Sar - Fulham
Denis Irwin - Oldham Athletic
Steve Bruce - Norwich
Garry Pallister - Middlesbrough
Rio Ferdinand - Leeds
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Molde
Dwight Yorke - Aston Villa

Oh, and Saha and Zaha = two different players....both of whom played for Man Utd :D

oloye wrote:
Bolasie another Sahasque signing ...these players thrive in their habitat, leave them there dont expose them. Taking players like that out of that habitat is akin to taking fish out of water. I have not seen anything in Bolaise to warrant the hype, Saha or is it Zaha did 3 times more than Bolaise did , he fell flat when he got to the big stage. These players lack the tactical discipline required at the biggest stage, ask Januzaj how he is faring once his running trick has become known.

Ditto for Shawncross...he is better than Evans no doubt, but once again ..levels!


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