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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am 
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danfo driver wrote:
green4life wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
The Darren Moore journey continues...with Doncaster Rovers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48942565


Wow! And Lampard is coaching cheslea.

This is what you were trying to tell G4L.


Abeg don't drag me into this one. :P

Lampard got the job because he's one of the club's biggest legends. Obviously, being white helps a lot but there are other more qualified white names that were bypassed so racism doesn't come into play with respect to the Chelsea decision. He'd have had a point had Drogba been coaching and was bypassed in preference for Lampard.


Bro, there is no need for argument. This is not fight. My comment had NOTHING to do with racism. I am just pointing out to Kalani that this is an example of what he was trying to tell you-- White coaches get top jobs, black coaches don't. for whatever reason. Gerrard is also coaching Glasgow Rangers, from no where.


I understand his point and definitely agree with him (and you) however the Chelsea example was misplaced because it's not ripe.

By the way, the same occurred in the NFL until the implemented the rule requiring at least one black candidate to be interviewed which then opened doors to the point where it is today. But it's been a long and ongoing process in USA. It appears they are trying to replicate what 'worked' in USA in England but if the Moore situation is any indication for future success, this will take a min. Blacks will have to dig in and keep pounding away. Baby steps.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:22 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:


:curse: :curse: :curse:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:48 pm 
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Poor example for inference of racism. F9.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:09 am 
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green4life wrote:


Poor example for inference of racism. F9.



I AGREE


Winning percentage may not be the best or only way to determine how good or how bad a coach is. The environment has a lot to say about that. Unfortunately, all too often, owners, fans, the media, and even players, pay undue attention to it.
Bell

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:30 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This take hits the nail on the head. Hope those who believe there is a level playing ground in football for all races need to listen to this.


Wow!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


We will only effectively deal with racism when more white folks follow AD’s lead. In the UK, a lot of the racism we encounter manifests itself through passive aggression.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:03 am 
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green4life wrote:


Poor example for inference of racism. F9.


Genius :???: :???: :???: ..................now, we awaiting you great 'inference' of what is racism.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:11 am 
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Dr. Wazobia wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This take hits the nail on the head. Hope those who believe there is a level playing ground in football for all races need to listen to this.


Wow!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


We will only effectively deal with racism when more white folks follow AD’s lead. In the UK, a lot of the racism we encounter manifests itself through passive aggression.


Yep. It is so often cryptic, silent and extremely pernicious.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:42 pm 
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green4life wrote:

Poor example for inference of racism. F9.

The issue is racial discrimination - different treatment on the basis of race. Both are rookie coaches, one black, one white.
The stats show the black coach performed better and was sacked and ends up at Doncaster. Lampard was no great shakes and still ends up at a higher level. Moore had to earn the right to be considered for the job by getting great results as interim coach. Despite thatn many "pundits" said he shouldn't get the job. Those same "pundits" had no problem with Lampard being appointed at Derby.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:07 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
green4life wrote:

Poor example for inference of racism. F9.

The issue is racial discrimination - different treatment on the basis of race. Both are rookie coaches, one black, one white.
The stats show the black coach performed better and was sacked and ends up at Doncaster. Lampard was no great shakes and still ends up at a higher level. Moore had to earn the right to be considered for the job by getting great results as interim coach. Despite thatn many "pundits" said he shouldn't get the job. Those same "pundits" had no problem with Lampard being appointed at Derby.


I dont understand G4L. I think, in his attempt, to defend his Chelsea, he is completely missing the point.

No one has called Chelsea racist. No one has said Chelsea's hiring of Lampard is racism or racist. The actual point is quite obvious, but he isn't seeing it because he is hell-bent on defending his Chelsea from an accusation that does not exist.


G4L, let me put it this way for you. Ignore Lampard and concentrate on Moore alone. A guy who worked wonders at WBA when they were in the EPL and did quite well the following season. He got fired and then had to look for a sh1ttty job because no other top job considered him. Why do you think this is the case? Do you think he was not considered because he is a bad person? His mouth smells? He didnt win the champioship trophy? WBA did not win every game? His undewear is too big? Which one of these, do you think is the reason he did not get a better job? Just concentrate on Moore alone, when thinking through this. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:44 am 
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zee wrote:
green4life wrote:


Poor example for inference of racism. F9.


Genius :???: :???: :???: ..................now, we awaiting you great 'inference' of what is racism.


I thought it's obvious that Lampard got the job because he's one of the top 3 biggest legends in Chelsea's history on not merely because he's white. Being white helps big time, but that's not what got LAMPARD this job. Did he earn the job? No he did not. But did he get the job because he is white? No. To make that case, you have to come up with a similarly situated but better qualified black candidate who was bypassed for the job.

Try to comprehend the different issues. This is much closer to nepotism than racism.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:03 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
green4life wrote:

Poor example for inference of racism. F9.

The issue is racial discrimination - different treatment on the basis of race. Both are rookie coaches, one black, one white.
The stats show the black coach performed better and was sacked and ends up at Doncaster. Lampard was no great shakes and still ends up at a higher level. Moore had to earn the right to be considered for the job by getting great results as interim coach. Despite thatn many "pundits" said he shouldn't get the job. Those same "pundits" had no problem with Lampard being appointed at Derby.


Good argument but your analysis is misplaced because all things being equal, neither Moore nor Lamapard would be considered for the job. For 'all things to be equal' relative to Moore, we have to presume that Lampard is not a Chelsea player (talkless of a massive legend). Also, Chelsea would not have a transfer ban which means they'd be able to entice the usual big name manager who will arrive knowing that he'd have a budget of 100+ million.

In the 'all things being equal' fact pattern, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But as it turns out, all things aren't equal. Lampard is a huge legend and that is exactly a big reason why they went after him along with the fact that given the transfer ban, he (and his assistant & former CFC academy coach, Jody Morris) will use this opportunity to blood in some of their academy products - players that they are already very familiar with and who are eager to impress them. This anything but racism.

This is why I gave you an F9 with respect to your racism argument.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:11 am 
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danfo driver wrote:


G4L, let me put it this way for you. Ignore Lampard and concentrate on Moore alone. A guy who worked wonders at WBA when they were in the EPL and did quite well the following season. He got fired and then had to look for a sh1ttty job because no other top job considered him. Why do you think this is the case? Do you think he was not considered because he is a bad person? His mouth smells? He didnt win the champioship trophy? WBA did not win every game? His undewear is too big? Which one of these, do you think is the reason he did not get a better job? Just concentrate on Moore alone, when thinking through this. Thanks.


Don't get me wrong: Moore is a victim of racism. There is no question in my mind with respect to that.

However, the use of Lampard's situation to compare with Moore, without proper consideration of the unique situation at play is disingenuous at best and flat out irrelevant at worst for the various reasons I've previously documented on this thread.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:06 am 
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green4life wrote:
danfo driver wrote:


G4L, let me put it this way for you. Ignore Lampard and concentrate on Moore alone. A guy who worked wonders at WBA when they were in the EPL and did quite well the following season. He got fired and then had to look for a sh1ttty job because no other top job considered him. Why do you think this is the case? Do you think he was not considered because he is a bad person? His mouth smells? He didnt win the champioship trophy? WBA did not win every game? His undewear is too big? Which one of these, do you think is the reason he did not get a better job? Just concentrate on Moore alone, when thinking through this. Thanks.


Don't get me wrong: Moore is a victim of racism. There is no question in my mind with respect to that.

However, the use of Lampard's situation to compare with Moore, without proper consideration of the unique situation at play is disingenuous at best and flat out irrelevant at worst for the various reasons I've previously documented on this thread.


i give up!

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:21 am 
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green4life wrote:

Good argument but your analysis is misplaced because all things being equal, neither Moore nor Lamapard would be considered for the job. For 'all things to be equal' relative to Moore, we have to presume that Lampard is not a Chelsea player (talkless of a massive legend). Also, Chelsea would not have a transfer ban which means they'd be able to entice the usual big name manager who will arrive knowing that he'd have a budget of 100+ million.

In the 'all things being equal' fact pattern, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But as it turns out, all things aren't equal. Lampard is a huge legend and that is exactly a big reason why they went after him along with the fact that given the transfer ban, he (and his assistant & former CFC academy coach, Jody Morris) will use this opportunity to blood in some of their academy products - players that they are already very familiar with and who are eager to impress them. This anything but racism.

This is why I gave you an F9 with respect to your racism argument.

You are in denial bro. In fact, most of what you wrote is wrong. Nobody is saying Moore should coach Chelski. The issue is that racial discrimination is part of the deal in both their careers. Moore is more qualified to be West Brom coach than Lamps is to be Chelski coach. Moore was a legend at West Brom, became their assistant manager and then got the caretaker job when Pardew was sacked. His success as caretaker meant he should have got the job without equivocation. But many still said he was not the right choice. If he weren’t black, it would be a different story. He then got sacked even though they were in a playoff position. Now, he ends up at Doncaster in League One – and he is even lucky as a black coach to get a job! Lamps had no experience even as an assistant or caretaker, but got the Derby job. Nobody argued that he wasn’t ready. From Derby, where he didn’t do that great, he is parachuted into Chelski. And it is all b/c he was a “legend” at the club. Why were other legends like Drogba not considered? Makalele has a lot of coaching experience. Only white legends need to bother applying.

What you don’t get about racial discrimination is that it is usually not the only factor in play. But it is clearly a factor here. The race of Moore and Lamps was a factor in the treatment they both got. Even Stevie Wonder can see it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:51 pm 
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CIC, you have made good points but to prevail, racism has to be the only factor at play and not one of multiple factors. In fact, I’ve conceded severally that being white helped Lampard but further explained that there are other more key factors that got him the job.

And if you understand Chelsea, the only black player who rivals Lampard’s legendary status is Drogba. Only a blind person can miss his orange banner permanently hanging at the bridge on game day. Drogba failure to be considered isn’t racism given he doesn’t have coaching experience particularly compared against Lampard.

Also, you asserted that Lampard underachieved relative to Moore when at Lampard’s first bite at the apple, his Derby County team was 1 goal short from earning promotion via playoffs while partly relying on a pack of academy players from various clubs.

Lastly, when Dimateo was fired, 6 months into the job, while CFC was still 4th on the table (5pts from 1st) - in spite of leading CFC to a historic CL / FA Cup double as an interim manager, was it because he’s Italian or was it just a routine business decision?

Look beyond black & white and towards the totality of the circumstances to determine whether Lampard benefited from racism to get the CFC job.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:35 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
green4life wrote:

Good argument but your analysis is misplaced because all things being equal, neither Moore nor Lamapard would be considered for the job. For 'all things to be equal' relative to Moore, we have to presume that Lampard is not a Chelsea player (talkless of a massive legend). Also, Chelsea would not have a transfer ban which means they'd be able to entice the usual big name manager who will arrive knowing that he'd have a budget of 100+ million.

In the 'all things being equal' fact pattern, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But as it turns out, all things aren't equal. Lampard is a huge legend and that is exactly a big reason why they went after him along with the fact that given the transfer ban, he (and his assistant & former CFC academy coach, Jody Morris) will use this opportunity to blood in some of their academy products - players that they are already very familiar with and who are eager to impress them. This anything but racism.

This is why I gave you an F9 with respect to your racism argument.

You are in denial bro. In fact, most of what you wrote is wrong. Nobody is saying Moore should coach Chelski. The issue is that racial discrimination is part of the deal in both their careers. Moore is more qualified to be West Brom coach than Lamps is to be Chelski coach. Moore was a legend at West Brom, became their assistant manager and then got the caretaker job when Pardew was sacked. His success as caretaker meant he should have got the job without equivocation. But many still said he was not the right choice. If he weren’t black, it would be a different story. He then got sacked even though they were in a playoff position. Now, he ends up at Doncaster in League One – and he is even lucky as a black coach to get a job! Lamps had no experience even as an assistant or caretaker, but got the Derby job. Nobody argued that he wasn’t ready. From Derby, where he didn’t do that great, he is parachuted into Chelski. And it is all b/c he was a “legend” at the club. Why were other legends like Drogba not considered? Makalele has a lot of coaching experience. Only white legends need to bother applying.

What you don’t get about racial discrimination is that it is usually not the only factor in play. But it is clearly a factor here. The race of Moore and Lamps was a factor in the treatment they both got. Even Stevie Wonder can see it.


You try! Me, I got tired and decided not to bother. G4L is a smart brother. I am surprised he is not seeing the obvious. its all good sha.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:37 pm 
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green4life wrote:
CIC, you have made good points but to prevail, racism has to be the only factor at play and not one of multiple factors. In fact, I’ve conceded severally that being white helped Lampard but further explained that there are other more key factors that got him the job.

And if you understand Chelsea, the only black player who rivals Lampard’s legendary status is Drogba. Only a blind person can miss his orange banner permanently hanging at the bridge on game day. Drogba failure to be considered isn’t racism given he doesn’t have coaching experience particularly compared against Lampard.

Also, you asserted that Lampard underachieved relative to Moore when at Lampard’s first bite at the apple, his Derby County team was 1 goal short from earning promotion via playoffs while partly relying on a pack of academy players from various clubs.

Lastly, when Dimateo was fired, 6 months into the job, while CFC was still 4th on the table (5pts from 1st) - in spite of leading CFC to a historic CL / FA Cup double as an interim manager, was it because he’s Italian or was it just a routine business decision?

Look beyond black & white and towards the totality of the circumstances to determine whether Lampard benefited from racism to get the CFC job.


No one has said this. Are you purposefully refusing to see the actual issue? :shock:

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Danfo, the specific issue wrt Moore is obviously motivated by racial prejudices.

Just asserting that comparing Lampard returning to Chelsea to Moore’s situation is like comparing apples and oranges for various reasons unrelated to race.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:39 am 
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green4life wrote:
CIC, you have made good points but to prevail, racism has to be the only factor at play and not one of multiple factors. In fact, I’ve conceded severally that being white helped Lampard but further explained that there are other more key factors that got him the job.

And if you understand Chelsea, the only black player who rivals Lampard’s legendary status is Drogba. Only a blind person can miss his orange banner permanently hanging at the bridge on game day. Drogba failure to be considered isn’t racism given he doesn’t have coaching experience particularly compared against Lampard.

Also, you asserted that Lampard underachieved relative to Moore when at Lampard’s first bite at the apple, his Derby County team was 1 goal short from earning promotion via playoffs while partly relying on a pack of academy players from various clubs.

Lastly, when Dimateo was fired, 6 months into the job, while CFC was still 4th on the table (5pts from 1st) - in spite of leading CFC to a historic CL / FA Cup double as an interim manager, was it because he’s Italian or was it just a routine business decision?

Look beyond black & white and towards the totality of the circumstances to determine whether Lampard benefited from racism to get the CFC job.

No sir, there is no way racism can be the only factor. They are both coaches, the discussion is in relation to clubs in which they both played. Such things are factors. But you can’t ignore the evidence of white privilege here.

Telling me about fans having a banner of Drogba is like saying someone isn’t racist b/c he has Bob Marley records. The same Chelski fans that love Drogba will shove a black guy off a train. Drogba wouldn’t be appointed Chelski coach with one season coaching in the Championship. Makalele was not in the running even with more experience than Lampard.

Expectations are different at Chelski from West Brom. So telling me that RDM was fired is not evidence that Moore’s case wasn’t discrimination. I don’t recall any white coach losing his job with his team in the playoff positions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Chelsea’s appointment of Franklin Ugochukwu Lampard was not a consequence of his minimal melanocytism, that, however, was the driving force behind his championing by the media. The English league awash with Johnny Foreigner managers, is desperate for a son of the soil to tear up the daisies and bring a bouquet back for his childhoood sweetheart. The lack of experience and “needs help” sentiment often synonymous with the Black appointment, are seldom lines applied to such situations. White privilege without doubt, but far from the perfect paradigm, an honour reserved for Steve Bruce. Has serial failure even been so well rewarded?


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