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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:00 pm 
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Some pundits might believe that #AFC have paid off the stadium debt, but this is not true. Arsenal had £217m debt remaining in 2018 with the majority only due to be repaid in 2029 (£50m in 2031). #MUFC still have around £500m, while #THFC debt will rise due to new stadium. https://t.co/DIXSckbW54


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:03 pm 
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How legitimate is this Swiss Ramble, are his figures solid, is he telling the truth.

Is he correct on the stadium that Arsenal still owes some money.
Please i am asking kindly, i want to understand how the American owners are also holding back Arsenal if that's the case.

Clarification will help a lot


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm 
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benteke wrote:
How legitimate is this Swiss Ramble, are his figures solid, is he telling the truth.

Is he correct on the stadium that Arsenal still owes some money.
Please i am asking kindly, i want to understand how the American owners are also holding back Arsenal if that's the case.

Clarification will help a lot


His figures are solid. They are from Arsenal's accounts. His interpretation of the figures are also very good because he is quite objective and tries to avoid being judgemental.

I have covered these issues consistently almost every year. Almost every season, I make this point of saying the debt is not cleared up.

Arsenal have £231m in cash and total debt of £217m according to the last set of accounts. With cash more than debt, many people came to this wrong conclusion that we have paid off the debt. We have not.

With regards to the Owner. My beef with him is clear. Up until 2016. Arsenal were tied down to long term deals from the stadium project. But we got past it paying the £25m yearly mortgage to service the debt. We new deals kicked in, it injected a further £120m over 3 years in revenue. The idea was to use these funds in developing the playing squad into championship contenders.

But the club decided to use it for capital expenditure (Capex) they spent over £70m in redeveloping Hale End (youth academy) London Colney and more on Arsenalisation of the Emirates. Liverpool having been stuck in the Europa league decided the best way to get out was not to use club funds on Capex. Instead their Owner gave the club low interest (2%) and interest free loans to rebuild the stand in the stadium, plus a new youth facility etc etc. The owner of Liverpool put in £93m, so they had money to spent on transfers. whilst over the same period we spent over £70m we could have used for funding transfers and salaries on Capex.

Arsenal in the same period also increased cash reserves and had 30% of all proceeds from players sales not reinvested in the squad.

Finally, it was the Owner who introduced StatsDNA, the software they decided to start using in recruiting players. We ditched our old scouting model for this and IMHO this has been a major problem when you look at the majority of the players we bought.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:30 pm 
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benteke wrote:


Some pundits might believe that #AFC have paid off the stadium debt, but this is not true. Arsenal had £217m debt remaining in 2018 with the majority only due to be repaid in 2029 (£50m in 2031). #MUFC still have around £500m, while #THFC debt will rise due to new stadium. https://t.co/DIXSckbW54

See Chelsea, they got no debt, that is a serious footballing club

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Arsenal should have more transfer funds available.

Arsenal new kit deal with addidas, 5 years 300 million pounds, that is about 60 MP a season. The previous deal was 5 years 170 MP with puma

Also Premier league TV earnings has increased.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:49 am 
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Waffiman wrote:

Arsenal have £231m in cash and total debt of £217m according to the last set of accounts. With cash more than debt, many people came to this wrong conclusion that we have paid off the debt. We have not.



Is there any accounting or tax advantage from such an arrangement.

And also when Wenger was about to retire i think i saw him talk about having paid off the stadium, what did he mean by that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:38 pm 
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benteke wrote:
Waffiman wrote:

Arsenal have £231m in cash and total debt of £217m according to the last set of accounts. With cash more than debt, many people came to this wrong conclusion that we have paid off the debt. We have not.



Is there any accounting or tax advantage from such an arrangement.

And also when Wenger was about to retire i think i saw him talk about having paid off the stadium, what did he mean by that.


To the detriment of squad, Wenger as the main driver of the Emirates project always had this emotional attachment. He even put £3m of his own money into the project. Wenger talked about his pride at leaving Arsenal having more cash than debt. That is what he meant when the phraseology 'debt free' is used. In theory, it is correct but the reality is the debt is not paid off despite having the cash in the bank.

Do not forget that one time, Arsenal had debt of just over £750m. The banks even made him sign up for at least 5 years or else the club would not have got the loan for the stadium. The relief at Arsenal is they now have freedom from the banks who once owned the club, but many fans can now see the true cost on the pitch.

There are advantages and disadvantages. I have talked about the huge advantage of having money if you need and chose to spend it. On this front, Arsenal can compete if they chose to spend, they will not be putting the club at risk.

Also, clubs seeing the cash have no fear of selling players on long term structured deals, consequently Arsenal always get away with paying for all their transfers on 4 to 5 year arrangements.

However, a major disadvantage is tax. We have paid taxes of just over £50m in the last 5 years, while most clubs have not paid a dime because they have made losses. The good thing is I am projecting losses on coming years, so they will not be paying any taxes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:59 am 
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To Waffi
Enos Stan kroenke have stated that he didnt buy arsenal to win trophies.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 02046.html
We can both agree that the turf have changed. We have seen players worth 11 million now going for 30 million. Other teams above and below us someone managed to adjust their strategies or accept things for what they are. We have seen the likes Aston Villa,Everton, West Ham, Leicester City e.t.c go for individual players for prices ranging from 30-50 million not only in one season but in countless seasons. Right now we cant find money to sign a Kieran Tierney. Man City just signed back Angelino for peanuts and everybody knows that arsenal needs a replacement for Ramsey. There is a central midfielder at empoli who was amongst the top five central midfielders in serie A last season whilst playing for the lowly Empoli. He is arguably the best player so far at the current afcon. Both Napoli and Milan are fighting for his signature and arsenal has the first refusal(as far as i know). The said player is Ishmael Bennacer. Dont you think it would make sense to bring him back instead of cashing on the sell on clause?
We can both agree that Stanley Kroenke's Arsenal has lost one of their core competencies(thanks to statdna) which is the ability to find bargains where nobody would dare look.
With that said, there is no money to compete in transfer market and scouting network is poor.

My question is........in your opinion......do you think arsenal as a club is on the right track under the stewardship of Kroenke? Is there any strategy ? If yes....what is Arsenal's current strategy?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:36 am 
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bk-one wrote:
My question is........in your opinion......do you think arsenal as a club is on the right track under the stewardship of Kroenke? Is there any strategy ? If yes....what is Arsenal's current strategy?

In all honesty, I can't see how these finances and the manager's aspirations can keep us in the top 4 in the forseeable future.

We are stretching it for top 6 but other clubs are catching up financially.

So be prepared to have a club coasting through to simply remain in the Premier League. This is reality so wake up smell the coffee and adapt.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:41 pm 
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cchinukw wrote:
bk-one wrote:
My question is........in your opinion......do you think arsenal as a club is on the right track under the stewardship of Kroenke? Is there any strategy ? If yes....what is Arsenal's current strategy?

In all honesty, I can't see how these finances and the manager's aspirations can keep us in the top 4 in the forseeable future.

We are stretching it for top 6 but other clubs are catching up financially.

So be prepared to have a club coasting through to simply remain in the Premier League. This is reality so wake up smell the coffee and adapt.


That I am not disagreeing with but I really dont get what Kroenke is trying to achieve in regards to Arsenal. On-field success brings more commercial appeal thus more money for him but somehow he seems to be content with the prevailing mediocrity at Arsenal. That is his investment rotting but he seems okay with that.


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