Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:58 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:54 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:18 pm
Posts: 10214
This quote from Jonathan Woodgate today intrigued me. A part of it rings true but am I so set in my way?
Quote:
"Of course, I'm unhappy with conceding from two headers. Defenders seem to want to mark areas rather than opponents these days and space never scored a goal.

_________________
Image
“Each of us is more than the worst thing we've ever done.”- Bryan Stevenson, JUST MERCY: A story of Justice & Redemption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 13126
lol. zonal-marking.

I despise it, but many argue that it is more effective than man-to-man.

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:51 am
Posts: 15138
furiously frank wrote:
This quote from Jonathan Woodgate today intrigued me. A part of it rings true but am I so set in my way?
Quote:
"Of course, I'm unhappy with conceding from two headers. Defenders seem to want to mark areas rather than opponents these days and space never scored a goal.

Disagree.

_________________

WC go sweet o
DNQ no good o

-
Cellular quotes
"Thank God na oyibo be coach." - Nov 16, 2017
"The Yeyeman is hardly ever vulgar when dealing with anyone. " - Mar 23, 2018
"I will take Trump over Clinton but I am in the minority." - Jul 19, 2016
-
© The YeyeMan 2019
This post is provided AS IS with no warranties and confers no rights.
It is not authorised by CyberEagles. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Posts: 29956
Sad...he can at least try and understand the concept.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:29 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:06 am
Posts: 4628
danfo driver wrote:
lol. zonal-marking.

I despise it, but many argue that it is more effective than man-to-man.


I think man to man is outdated and leaves the defending team at a disadvantage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 29924
Old adage told by many long before Woody Woodpecker. The whole point of zonal marking is to create spatial awareness. No space has never scored the goal rather it’s exploitation affords the attacker the opportunity to do so. The issue here is not the pitfall of zonal marking, rather the dunce of defenders who are doing a hybrid of both man-to-man and zonal marking. The produce, a Frankenstinian monstrosity that fails woefully in both regards. Players pick up the man in their zone follow him out of the zone, then upon remembering they’re zonal setting, stand aloof seemingly expecting the next gateman to automatically pick up the intruder.

The failure is in the realisation that both gatemen are equally exercising their right to incompetence.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Posts: 29956
Coach wrote:
Old adage told by many long before Woody Woodpecker. The whole point of zonal marking is to create spatial awareness. No space has never scored the goal rather it’s exploitation affords the attacker the opportunity to do so. The issue here is not the pitfall of zonal marking, rather the dunce of defenders who are doing a hybrid of both man-to-man and zonal marking. The produce, a Frankenstinian monstrosity that fails woefully in both regards. Players pick up the man in their zone follow him out of the zone, then upon remembering they’re zonal setting, stand aloof seemingly expecting the next gateman to automatically pick up the intruder.

The failure is in the realisation that both gatemen are equally exercising their right to incompetence.



And Woody? Quintessential old English stock.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:21 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:07 am
Posts: 43424
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.

_________________
Image
"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 13126
oloye wrote:
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

As to the other part of your post, I entirely agree!

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 13126
kalani JR wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
lol. zonal-marking.

I despise it, but many argue that it is more effective than man-to-man.


I think man to man is outdated and leaves the defending team at a disadvantage.


I wouldnt argue against your point. Like I said, many top people in the game prefer zonal-marking and say its better. My preference is just man-to-man. Maybe its because I am petty! I want to know who the culprit of the goal was..clearly! No excuses of "it wasnt my space." I know it was you because I specifically told you to mark him! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Posts: 29956
oloye wrote:
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.


In a set piece situation, that would hardly ever happen that Kante would mark VVD.

Folks should watch Ariggo Satchi’s Milan to truly understand how the zonal marking works.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:07 am
Posts: 43424
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.


In a set piece situation, that would hardly ever happen that Kante would mark VVD.

Folks should watch Ariggo Satchi’s Milan to truly understand how the zonal marking works.

But it has happened, there was a picture of that trending sometime last season. Everyone was laughing. Or was it Tobera vs VVD.

_________________
Image
"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 13126
oloye wrote:
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.


In a set piece situation, that would hardly ever happen that Kante would mark VVD.

Folks should watch Ariggo Satchi’s Milan to truly understand how the zonal marking works.

But it has happened, there was a picture of that trending sometime last season. Everyone was laughing. Or was it Tobera vs VVD.


Image

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Posts: 29956
oloye wrote:
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
I would think Woodgste being a good defender in his time would be given the benefit of doubt. Zonal marking or man to man marking during set pieces, each have its flaws, and it the question about which is better or most effective remains a debatable one.
Lazy players can easily exploit zonal marking refusing to bulge or do anything even when common sense demands they move to save the situation. As far as they are concerned they are busy looking after a zone. The flaw of zonal marking is what would throw up a situation where Kante would be marking VVD in a set piece situation.

Man marking is not perfect either, but at least it would eliminate the two highlighted points above.

As they say it is not the systems, it is the personnel in the system that counts. Systems should be fashioned after the personnel available.. I watched Pogba and Rashford made a hash job of anticipating the danger posed by a free unmarked Southampton defender yesterday while both were taking care of their zones. Which begs the question, should the tallest person in United defence not be looking out for the tallest person on the Southampton team? It was pathetic watching Liendolf a pathetic defender in the air trying to stop the Southampton fella... It was a mismatch, zonal or man marking.


In a set piece situation, that would hardly ever happen that Kante would mark VVD.

Folks should watch Ariggo Satchi’s Milan to truly understand how the zonal marking works.

But it has happened, there was a picture of that trending sometime last season. Everyone was laughing. Or was it Tobera vs VVD.



I saw the picture and that would obviously be a mistake. But then again, it would also depend on the nature of the zone and who is part of it. Sometimes, the short player's assignment is simply to prevent the taller player getting a run on a header...

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:57 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:07 am
Posts: 43424
The craziness of zonal marking... How do I know that is zonal marking.... Because it would be daft to call this man marking at set piece
Image

_________________
Image
"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group