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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:33 pm 
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txj wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
txj wrote:
I would like to look beyond this issue to comment about much deeper manifestations of racism. By that I refer to the institutional kind.

Don't get me wrong, Silva was stupid and will deservedly be punished, in some form or the other.

Then what?

But the fight against racism cannot be focused on the lowest common denominators of words, symbols, tweets, etc, when the real manifestations of the issue is much deeper.

I am tired of the uproar about words and black-faces and all. Not saying they shouldn't be condemned, but how about we reserve the biggest outrage for the deeper manifestations of this cancer....

I ain't tired at all. If it was a Jewish or LGBT target, there'd be hell to pay. Heck, it might even have meant an end to his professional career.


But this sort of link to what he's saying, everyone is always focused and outraged by the incidents rather the problem itself.


how do we focus on the problem itself without focusing on the incidents?


Well, we are focused on the incidents, while the institutional issues remains unaddressed.

Look at Danny Rose at Spurs- says he cannot wait to retire as a result of racist abuse; look at pretty much the entire Italian league, with players left to fend for themselves in what is a deep societal issue.

And we are fighting over tweets, black face and all...

you ain't fought for nothing in your life, all you do is post on CE like a jobless troll..... Now lets see someone on your street run around with a black face... get the heck with pointing fingers, these people are fighting against hate, you are busy doing ATF on CE talking about black face etc don't matter..The freaking Canadian president wore black faces, he won an election, sit there and think those folks like you because they built some Abercrombie and Fitch 2 miles from your house... delusional de grandeur

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:36 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
txj wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
txj wrote:
I would like to look beyond this issue to comment about much deeper manifestations of racism. By that I refer to the institutional kind.

Don't get me wrong, Silva was stupid and will deservedly be punished, in some form or the other.

Then what?

But the fight against racism cannot be focused on the lowest common denominators of words, symbols, tweets, etc, when the real manifestations of the issue is much deeper.

I am tired of the uproar about words and black-faces and all. Not saying they shouldn't be condemned, but how about we reserve the biggest outrage for the deeper manifestations of this cancer....

I ain't tired at all. If it was a Jewish or LGBT target, there'd be hell to pay. Heck, it might even have meant an end to his professional career.


But this sort of link to what he's saying, everyone is always focused and outraged by the incidents rather the problem itself.


how do we focus on the problem itself without focusing on the incidents?


Well, we are focused on the incidents, while the institutional issues remains unaddressed.

Look at Danny Rose at Spurs- says he cannot wait to retire as a result of racist abuse; look at pretty much the entire Italian league, with players left to fend for themselves in what is a deep societal issue.

And we are fighting over tweets, black face and all...

you ain't fought for nothing in your life, all you do is post on CE like a jobless troll..... Now lets see someone on your street run around with a black face... get the heck with pointing fingers, these people are fighting against hate, you are busy doing ATF on CE talking about black face etc don't matter..The freaking Canadian president wore black faces, he won an election, sit there and think those folks like you because they built some Abercrombie and Fitch 2 miles from your house... delusional de grandeur



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:58 pm 
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marko wrote:
Coach wrote:
@Marko, Eto’o’s age was questioned because he’s black and he’s African. The same charges were not levied at the likes of Carvalho and Robben, both of whom look way beyond their years. Why not? Race has shaped an opinion and the conclusions reached, a classic example of prejudice. The truth is, it is everywhere and anywhere.


perhaps due to the fact some African players do lie about their ages? at least they have verified birth records here so 1 cannot get away with falsifying ages in Western Europe?
Its a bit dangerous to bring Age cheating into the picture! we only have ourselves to blame for this topic!


Lukaku was also accused as a youth player and he was born in Belgium!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:45 am 
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Where’s John Barnes? Must be on holiday, surprised he hasn’t been asked to lend his weight to the debate.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:56 am 
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Coach wrote:
Where’s John Barnes? Must be on holiday, surprised he hasn’t been asked to lend his weight to the debate.


Give me a few minutes, someone sent me a video of him weighing in on this issue :rotf:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:00 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:42 am 
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benteke wrote:



He has a point!! innit? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:52 am 
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benteke wrote:


Just in time the coon of Kingston mounts another defense of someone accused of being racist.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:01 am 
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On the contrary, Barnes is asking a valid point, why is it racist? What about comparing two black faces, one in infancy another a cartoon character, is racist? Is it the fact that one has stereotyped features? Before heckling Barnes, 'tis worth acknowledging the statement made, in order for it to be seen as racist, he demands to know where the FA, Kick It Out, have seen offence. A very valid point. Without knowing Silva, 'tis likely this was deliberate, but within the realms of what the two have considered banter, an arena where outrageous statements can be made an excused away as "bantz".


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:08 pm 
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txj wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
txj wrote:
I would like to look beyond this issue to comment about much deeper manifestations of racism. By that I refer to the institutional kind.

Don't get me wrong, Silva was stupid and will deservedly be punished, in some form or the other.

Then what?

But the fight against racism cannot be focused on the lowest common denominators of words, symbols, tweets, etc, when the real manifestations of the issue is much deeper.

I am tired of the uproar about words and black-faces and all. Not saying they shouldn't be condemned, but how about we reserve the biggest outrage for the deeper manifestations of this cancer....

I ain't tired at all. If it was a Jewish or LGBT target, there'd be hell to pay. Heck, it might even have meant an end to his professional career.


But this sort of link to what he's saying, everyone is always focused and outraged by the incidents rather the problem itself.


how do we focus on the problem itself without focusing on the incidents?


Well, we are focused on the incidents, while the institutional issues remains unaddressed.

Look at Danny Rose at Spurs- says he cannot wait to retire as a result of racist abuse; look at pretty much the entire Italian league, with players left to fend for themselves in what is a deep societal issue.

And we are fighting over tweets, black face and all...


Yes. You can walk and chew gum. As I’ve mentioned, the Benardo tweet is symbolic of the normalized and rationalization of attitudes towards racism particularly in Europe. That is why racism tacitly gets institutional protection/ cover in Italy, England, Spain, Germany, etc.

Until players and violators see tangible consequences, nothing will change.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:19 pm 
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txj wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
txj wrote:
I would like to look beyond this issue to comment about much deeper manifestations of racism. By that I refer to the institutional kind.

Don't get me wrong, Silva was stupid and will deservedly be punished, in some form or the other.

Then what?

But the fight against racism cannot be focused on the lowest common denominators of words, symbols, tweets, etc, when the real manifestations of the issue is much deeper.

I am tired of the uproar about words and black-faces and all. Not saying they shouldn't be condemned, but how about we reserve the biggest outrage for the deeper manifestations of this cancer....

I ain't tired at all. If it was a Jewish or LGBT target, there'd be hell to pay. Heck, it might even have meant an end to his professional career.


But this sort of link to what he's saying, everyone is always focused and outraged by the incidents rather the problem itself.


how do we focus on the problem itself without focusing on the incidents?


Well, we are focused on the incidents, while the institutional issues remains unaddressed.

Look at Danny Rose at Spurs- says he cannot wait to retire as a result of racist abuse; look at pretty much the entire Italian league, with players left to fend for themselves in what is a deep societal issue.

And we are fighting over tweets, black face and all...

What do you suggest we focus on that Kick it Out! isn't already doing?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:19 pm 
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benteke wrote:


This is a classic exhibit why racism continues to be a massive problem in European football. There’s always a ‘rational’ explanation to justify or minimize the seriousness of these incidents. At the end of the day the punishment is the proverbial slap on the wrist. Barnes is a fcuuking disgrace.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:42 pm 
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green4life wrote:
benteke wrote:


This is a classic exhibit why racism continues to be a massive problem in European football. There’s always a ‘rational’ explanation to justify or minimize the seriousness of these incidents. At the end of the day the punishment is the proverbial slap on the wrist. Barnes is a fcuuking disgrace.
...there are always Judases in every town. I bet he holds flag for Trump in the UK too.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:30 pm 
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green4life wrote:
benteke wrote:


This is a classic exhibit why racism continues to be a massive problem in European football. There’s always a ‘rational’ explanation to justify or minimize the seriousness of these incidents. At the end of the day the punishment is the proverbial slap on the wrist. Barnes is a fcuuking disgrace.

these are the kind of people we call pajimoh... a huge uncle tom,,,,,, ruckus got nothing on this loser, bald headed bo

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:46 pm 
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What Silva posted was very ignorant. It has racist connotations, but it is not an open and shut case of racism b/c of context. He and Mendy are friends. Sometimes jokes b/w friends go too far in the eyes of people outside their circle. There appears to be no malice intended in the post. In racist cases, the intent of the perpetrator and how the “victim” sees the act are both important. Mendy wasn’t offended. But the fact that others could be offended is where the stupidity of the post comes in. This sort of thing should have been b/w the 2 friends. But a lot of people choose to live their lives on social media, so private stuff is put out for public consumption. Silva was definitely thoughtless.

If Silva were a white guy from the UK or the US, ignorance won’t have been a valid excuse for him. He should have known that such a picture would be seen as offensive. People are still very backward in terms of race relations in most of continental Europe. They are no different from many Nigerians that still say stuff like “half caste”, “mulatto”, etc. and don’t even know they are causing offence. Pep should have shut his trap and let the City media team handle this sort of stuff b/c he also comes from a place of little understanding.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:54 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
What Silva posted was very ignorant. It has racist connotations, but it is not an open and shut case of racism b/c of context. He and Mendy are friends. Sometimes jokes b/w friends go too far in the eyes of people outside their circle. There appears to be no malice intended in the post. In racist cases, the intent of the perpetrator and how the “victim” sees the act are both important. Mendy wasn’t offended. But the fact that others could be offended is where the stupidity of the post comes in. This sort of thing should have been b/w the 2 friends. But a lot of people choose to live their lives on social media, so private stuff is put out for public consumption. Silva was definitely thoughtless.

If Silva were a white guy from the UK or the US, ignorance won’t have been a valid excuse for him. He should have known that such a picture would be seen as offensive. People are still very backward in terms of race relations in most of continental Europe. They are no different from many Nigerians that still say stuff like “half caste”, “mulatto”, etc. and don’t even know they are causing offence. Pep should have shut his trap and let the City media team handle this sort of stuff b/c he also comes from a place of little understanding.

:roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:56 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
What Silva posted was very ignorant. It has racist connotations, but it is not an open and shut case of racism b/c of context. He and Mendy are friends. Sometimes jokes b/w friends go too far in the eyes of people outside their circle. There appears to be no malice intended in the post. In racist cases, the intent of the perpetrator and how the “victim” sees the act are both important. Mendy wasn’t offended. But the fact that others could be offended is where the stupidity of the post comes in. This sort of thing should have been b/w the 2 friends. But a lot of people choose to live their lives on social media, so private stuff is put out for public consumption. Silva was definitely thoughtless.

If Silva were a white guy from the UK or the US, ignorance won’t have been a valid excuse for him. He should have known that such a picture would be seen as offensive. People are still very backward in terms of race relations in most of continental Europe. They are no different from many Nigerians that still say stuff like “half caste”, “mulatto”, etc. and don’t even know they are causing offence. Pep should have shut his trap and let the City media team handle this sort of stuff b/c he also comes from a place of little understanding.


I think his ignorance of the connotations of the cartoon also led him to posting it without much additional thought. Many Europeans on this side are shocked when people are offended at their faux pas.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:57 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
What Silva posted was very ignorant. It has racist connotations, but it is not an open and shut case of racism b/c of context. He and Mendy are friends. Sometimes jokes b/w friends go too far in the eyes of people outside their circle. There appears to be no malice intended in the post. In racist cases, the intent of the perpetrator and how the “victim” sees the act are both important. Mendy wasn’t offended. But the fact that others could be offended is where the stupidity of the post comes in. This sort of thing should have been b/w the 2 friends. But a lot of people choose to live their lives on social media, so private stuff is put out for public consumption. Silva was definitely thoughtless.

If Silva were a white guy from the UK or the US, ignorance won’t have been a valid excuse for him. He should have known that such a picture would be seen as offensive. People are still very backward in terms of race relations in most of continental Europe. They are no different from many Nigerians that still say stuff like “half caste”, “mulatto”, etc. and don’t even know they are causing offence. Pep should have shut his trap and let the City media team handle this sort of stuff b/c he also comes from a place of little understanding.

:roll: :roll:


You haven't said anything. Monkey noises and bananas are done to directly offend black players most can understand that that is racist, the other stuff -blackface, savages and even slanted eyes- is a lot more esoteric to them.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:08 pm 
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kalani JR wrote:

I think his ignorance of the connotations of the cartoon also led him to posting it without much additional thought. Many Europeans on this side are shocked when people are offended at their faux pas.

Exactly. They are like: what's all the fuss about? See these guys in Belgium.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-belg ... SKCN1VF0X8

The racial awareness of white folks in the UK and the US is from decades of struggle, challenge and education by black people.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:42 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
kalani JR wrote:

I think his ignorance of the connotations of the cartoon also led him to posting it without much additional thought. Many Europeans on this side are shocked when people are offended at their faux pas.

Exactly. They are like: what's all the fuss about? See these guys in Belgium.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-belg ... SKCN1VF0X8

The racial awareness of white folks in the UK and the US is from decades of struggle, challenge and education by black people.


I'm well aware of this but I also give them and the Netherlands slightly less rope because they like Germany have had substantial immigration over the decades. Even a couple of decades ago Mel B, called them out on TV.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:20 pm 
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Coach wrote:
On the contrary, Barnes is asking a valid point, why is it racist? What about comparing two black faces, one in infancy another a cartoon character, is racist? Is it the fact that one has stereotyped features? Before heckling Barnes, 'tis worth acknowledging the statement made, in order for it to be seen as racist, he demands to know where the FA, Kick It Out, have seen offence. A very valid point. Without knowing Silva, 'tis likely this was deliberate, but within the realms of what the two have considered banter, an arena where outrageous statements can be made an excused away as "bantz".


What about the video that Bernado posted, our Barnesey didn't venture into that one


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:29 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
What Silva posted was very ignorant. It has racist connotations, but it is not an open and shut case of racism b/c of context. He and Mendy are friends. Sometimes jokes b/w friends go too far in the eyes of people outside their circle. There appears to be no malice intended in the post. In racist cases, the intent of the perpetrator and how the “victim” sees the act are both important. Mendy wasn’t offended. But the fact that others could be offended is where the stupidity of the post comes in. This sort of thing should have been b/w the 2 friends. But a lot of people choose to live their lives on social media, so private stuff is put out for public consumption. Silva was definitely thoughtless.

If Silva were a white guy from the UK or the US, ignorance won’t have been a valid excuse for him. He should have known that such a picture would be seen as offensive. People are still very backward in terms of race relations in most of continental Europe. They are no different from many Nigerians that still say stuff like “half caste”, “mulatto”, etc. and don’t even know they are causing offence. Pep should have shut his trap and let the City media team handle this sort of stuff b/c he also comes from a place of little understanding.


I would like to think that institutional racism thrives because of "ignorant" people like Bernado who can unknowingly take part in activities that promote racism.
For example a teammate who doesn't get offended by stupid jokes like these would be recommended to the boss as one who fits in with the crew.
A different guy who doesn't tolerate such stuff can be seen as disruptive and aloof.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:44 pm 
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green4life wrote:
benteke wrote:


This is a classic exhibit why racism continues to be a massive problem in European football. There’s always a ‘rational’ explanation to justify or minimize the seriousness of these incidents. At the end of the day the punishment is the proverbial slap on the wrist. Barnes is a fcuuking disgrace.



Barnes is trying to place the issues in proper context, so we can have an intelligent discourse and not simply emotional outbursts.

If we are going to be successful in fighting racism, it must be based on substantive issues, not ephemerals...

What Silva did was stupid. We have no basis to be made, and should not have been a part of a private joke between two friends.

You cannot convince me that Mendy, in all his years in football, is not smart enough to see/feel racial animus, when directed at him, irrespective of the source.

Let us focus on the real issues.

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