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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:23 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Flipping the argument one last time using my favorite example of Sarr; if the AFCON is only played in the summer but Sarr is an average chap who Watford isn’t sure will help their team, they won’t say “Ewo, let us pity you and give you a chance since you won’t leave during the season for AFCON’. The point being that the AFCON angle is a cop out argument. Yes, they’d rather not lose the player once every other year for a tournament but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t make much of a difference for decision makers.


Not sure the basis of your conclusion here. Klopp a current manager in the game tells you it does make a difference.

In any case, lets not take his word. Look back at the reaction of clubs before the summer switch. How many players were delayed from joining up; how many had clauses inserted in their contracts; how many feigned injury or lost their way to the airport.

It impacts everything.

Lets take the hypothetical case of Sarr that you cited incorrectly. The decision cannot be about mercy signing an average player. It almost always comes down to a choice between a cohort of players- players of similar skills set and standards. At which point the fact of losing a player midseason will become a factor...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:22 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Flipping the argument one last time using my favorite example of Sarr; if the AFCON is only played in the summer but Sarr is an average chap who Watford isn’t sure will help their team, they won’t say “Ewo, let us pity you and give you a chance since you won’t leave during the season for AFCON’. The point being that the AFCON angle is a cop out argument. Yes, they’d rather not lose the player once every other year for a tournament but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t make much of a difference for decision makers.


The claim that they will not buy Afeican players is laughable. It seems that many here believe that these clubs are there to do us a favor. Please face the fact that African players present value and are not asking for handouts. They are there in merit.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:27 am 
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“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:43 am 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
green4life wrote:
Flipping the argument one last time using my favorite example of Sarr; if the AFCON is only played in the summer but Sarr is an average chap who Watford isn’t sure will help their team, they won’t say “Ewo, let us pity you and give you a chance since you won’t leave during the season for AFCON’. The point being that the AFCON angle is a cop out argument. Yes, they’d rather not lose the player once every other year for a tournament but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t make much of a difference for decision makers.


The claim that they will not buy Afeican players is laughable. It seems that many here believe that these clubs are there to do us a favor. Please face the fact that African players present value and are not asking for handouts. They are there in merit.
The point being made here aside from the obvious absence of players during the AFCON is the potential of injuries. Na that one be the koko of the matter. Players are gone for the duration of the tournament, return with knocks and the team is stuck with the bill, 4 weeks could easily turn into a 3 month lay off. He saying that could be factored into whether its worth the risk of purchasing an African player..

I get all that..but same player can get hurt playing for the club in week 2 and be out for the season. So its a matter of control to me. Players often find themselves in a tough spot between club and country.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Cristao wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.
Stop endorsing fewer opportunities for African players to play at the highest level.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:55 pm 
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The other problem with this is that it may lead clubs to apply even greater pressure on players with dual nationality to not pledge their future to African countries.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:59 pm 
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CAF isn't progressive

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Are we still debating the comments of a man who needed teeth transplant because his mouth is permanently rotten?! No be plague be that? A curse from God? :lol:

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:26 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
Cristao wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.
Stop endorsing fewer opportunities for African players to play at the highest level.


With all due respect to Liverpool - they are only one of the top clubs in the world. They may kindly go eff themselves with regards to purchasing African players. The AFcon didn't stop them from buying Diouf, Diao et Al.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Cristao wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.
Stop endorsing fewer opportunities for African players to play at the highest level.


With all due respect to Liverpool - they are only one of the top clubs in the world. They may kindly go eff themselves with regards to purchasing African players. The AFcon didn't stop them from buying Diouf, Diao et Al.


:clap: :clap: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: And we all know where they will be without Mane, Matip and Salah.

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:07 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Cristao wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.
Stop endorsing fewer opportunities for African players to play at the highest level.


With all due respect to Liverpool - they are only one of the top clubs in the world. They may kindly go eff themselves with regards to purchasing African players. The AFcon didn't stop them from buying Diouf, Diao et Al.

You've missed the point. Klopp didn't say they'd stop buying African players - no decisions have been taken - but it will be a factor they consider when looking at African players - especially as a team with three already. Other top clubs WILL make the same considerations when assessing African players.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:18 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Cristao wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Quote:
“The other [problem is], it doesn’t help African players. We will not sell Sadio, Mo or Naby because they have a tournament in January or February, of course not, but if you have to make a decision about bringing in a player, it’s a massive one.

When a leading coach talks like this it's better to pay attention rather than beat chest.


That is fine. Liverpool can refuse to buy African players. No one is holding a gun to their heads to do so.
Stop endorsing fewer opportunities for African players to play at the highest level.


With all due respect to Liverpool - they are only one of the top clubs in the world. They may kindly go eff themselves with regards to purchasing African players. The AFcon didn't stop them from buying Diouf, Diao et Al.

You've missed the point. Klopp didn't say they'd stop buying African players - no decisions have been taken - but it will be a factor they consider when looking at African players - especially as a team with three already. Other top clubs WILL make the same considerations when assessing African players.


They bought Mane and Salah when the Afcon was still played in Q1. Klopp's points are clearly understood. No one is going to change this because of Klopp's comments.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:10 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
The other problem with this is that it may lead clubs to apply even greater pressure on players with dual nationality to not pledge their future to African countries.


Sure but they are already doing that with top level players and Nigeria for instance has not been able to secure such players with or without AFCON schedule change.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:19 pm 
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It's an age-old problem - one we've discussed here for decades - which is again being brought into sharper focus with the constant reshuffling by CAF.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:33 pm 
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In a different aspect, why can't European leagues switch to playing through the summer period and take the winter off instead of the summer? This will convenient for all parties involved since AFCON is most desirably played in Q1 while European football is brutal on players at that time of the year? Africans should start fighting back.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:26 pm 
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Its a Goal wrote:
In a different aspect, why can't European leagues switch to playing through the summer period and take the winter off instead of the summer? This will convenient for all parties involved since AFCON is most desirably played in Q1 while European football is brutal on players at that time of the year? Africans should start fighting back.



IAG,

What you suggest above was on the table at the start of FIFA's International calendar years ago. It was based on FIFA's belief then that at least some European leagues take a break during the winter and thus that this could be used as a second break in the year i.e. Winter + Summer. Those two periods would then be designated for transfers and also opened for international tournaments. I believe Africa was then using March for the AFCON but agreed to this deal by moving the AFCON to the winter. However, this proposal fell apart when England, particularly, refused the proposal including the proposal two reduce the number of clubs in the elite tier in order to ease the calendar. This is precisely why we are all in the overburdened calendar of today.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:37 pm 
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txj wrote:
green4life wrote:
Flipping the argument one last time using my favorite example of Sarr; if the AFCON is only played in the summer but Sarr is an average chap who Watford isn’t sure will help their team, they won’t say “Ewo, let us pity you and give you a chance since you won’t leave during the season for AFCON’. The point being that the AFCON angle is a cop out argument. Yes, they’d rather not lose the player once every other year for a tournament but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t make much of a difference for decision makers.


Not sure the basis of your conclusion here. Klopp a current manager in the game tells you it does make a difference.

In any case, lets not take his word. Look back at the reaction of clubs before the summer switch. How many players were delayed from joining up; how many had clauses inserted in their contracts; how many feigned injury or lost their way to the airport.

It impacts everything.

Lets take the hypothetical case of Sarr that you cited incorrectly. The decision cannot be about mercy signing an average player. It almost always comes down to a choice between a cohort of players- players of similar skills set and standards. At which point the fact of losing a player midseason will become a factor...

Klopp said this among other factors, people here talk about his comment on Alcon in isolation. Go back and read it again. He talk about English FA Rescheduled replays of Worthless Cup and 2nd legs of semis that directly impacts players like Kane. Afcon is just one of many factors. He’s asking for FIFA to get together with other FAs to fix the mess. CAF should take their own decision until reciprocal arrangements among FAs and Continental association is honored and respected.
I agree with Green, EII etc

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:51 pm 
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Its a Goal wrote:
In a different aspect, why can't European leagues switch to playing through the summer period and take the winter off instead of the summer? This will convenient for all parties involved since AFCON is most desirably played in Q1 while European football is brutal on players at that time of the year? Africans should start fighting back.


How dare the Massa change himself and his routine because of slaves??!! :shock: :shock: Oh! boy no commit sacrilege o! Dont you know that it is only Africans who should kowtow and bend our will to the demands of the Massa?

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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