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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:39 pm 
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It is always been obvious from day 1 that there was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

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Last edited by Cristao II on Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:51 pm 
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Kabalega wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Kabalega wrote:
jette1 wrote:
mcal wrote:
...success bring scrutiny. Their rise is questionable.

It’s not about that bro. It’s about money flowing in/ spending exceeding what the club actually makes and in fact any of the premier league club is susceptible to same accusation

The FFP rules were put in place to protect the status quo of the big clubs like ManU, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich.

PSG, Man City, Chelsea, e.t.c.... are just playing catchup to these guys.
But the old guard don''t like it one bit!
So they came up with "legal" schemes like this to protect themselves.
When you have a conspiract theory, at least make your case.
Do you know for a fact Man City are 'not guilty' of what they've been accused of? Enlighten us
Do you know for a fact that this is a new law enacted to entrap Man City? Tell us
Do you know for a fact that Man City are just one of several clubs outside the 'old guard' to fall foul of this selective law? Show us.

Otherwise, how do you expect us to take your theory seriously? :D

This is not a theory but a fact!
Michelle Platini and his cronies came up with this ruse to slow down the new kids on the block.

City is accused of doing what every other club is doing.
Barca got funding from Qatar to help them balance their books.
City got Emirates.

However, the evidence used against City was illegally obtained (hacked emails).
The Eufa, honcho. involved was clearly biased from the get go.

There's always someone willing to defend illegality. I don't care if their emails hacked or their account books stolen. Where they cooking their books and getting unfair advantage?

If you obey the rules then you have no problem if your emails were hacked.

Please stop this ya nonsense about every other club is doing it. Really?

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Last edited by pajimoh on Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:52 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:54 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.


Fortunately or unfortunately is not your call. The rules are there. They are not the first to be punished. Keep emotions out of it. Which fans are asking for this? UEFA fans?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:43 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.


Fortunately or unfortunately is not your call. The rules are there. They are not the first to be punished. Keep emotions out of it. Which fans are asking for this? UEFA fans?


Emotions? Lol! I'm not the one calling for disproportionate punishment, I simply stated that relegation doesn't fit the crime and we should be weary of punishing players over what is a back room infringement. Relegation and stripping titles should only happen when there is an on field infringement.

I also said this has nothing to do with legality, it's simply an alleged violation of UEFA rules, the punishment meted is up to UEFA. I never said it was my call.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:00 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.



Its a contravention of UEFA financial regulations to cook the books. That is illegal-1.

Its a contravention of accounting regulations. That is illegal-2

Its an obstruction of a valid investigation to refuse to cooperate. That is illegal-3

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:03 pm 
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txj wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.



Its a contravention of UEFA financial regulations to cook the books. That is illegal-1.

Its a contravention of accounting regulations. That is illegal-2

Its an obstruction of a valid investigation to refuse to cooperate. That is illegal-3


Violation of UEFA rules doesn't necessarily mean illegal, "cooking the books" to comply with UEFA policy isn't necessarily illegal either. They may have done something illegal but I didn't see anything illegal anywhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:06 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
txj wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.


Relegated for improper financial practices. The crimes written above are not the only crimes in football.

There was nothing illegal as far as I can see, the only infringement was failing to report income to UEFA. Sorry but that not illegal, it's simply a UEFA infringement.

Relegated for failing to report income to UEFA is just rival fans looking to use technicalities to get rid of a new money club who "shouldn't be there, it's a silly sense of entitlement that has been developed over the years of being at the top.



Its a contravention of UEFA financial regulations to cook the books. That is illegal-1.

Its a contravention of accounting regulations. That is illegal-2

Its an obstruction of a valid investigation to refuse to cooperate. That is illegal-3


Violation of UEFA rules doesn't necessarily mean illegal, "cooking the books" to comply with UEFA policy isn't necessarily illegal either. They may have done something illegal but I didn't see anything illegal anywhere.

You may not see it as illegal like the top brass at City but that will be tested when it goes to appeal.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:45 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

Saracens in Rugby just got relegated for wages irregularities.
Man City cooked their books. Got a lot of unfair advantage. Yes relegation is a grest deterrent if you want to stop such behaviour. Crime must not pay.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:52 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

Saracens in Rugby just got relegated for wages irregularities.
Man City cooked their books. Got a lot of unfair advantage. Yes relegation is a grest deterrent if you want to stop such behaviour. Crime must not pay.

They can do what they want but relegating a club because of not reporting income is stupid and will open a can of worms. This is just blowing this out of proportion IMHO.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:00 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.



There are rumors of moving them down to league 2. :rotf:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:22 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

Saracens in Rugby just got relegated for wages irregularities.
Man City cooked their books. Got a lot of unfair advantage. Yes relegation is a grest deterrent if you want to stop such behaviour. Crime must not pay.

They can do what they want but relegating a club because of not reporting income is stupid and will open a can of worms. This is just blowing this out of proportion IMHO.

Look at the clubs that have fallen foul of financial regulations lately - City, PSG..... clubs where money is being pumped in from external sources and maybe not operating in a true business sense. They can afford the fines. It's chicken change to them. They crave success and will do anything to get there.
That is why relegation is adequate deterrent. Exactly the opposite of why they are willing to break the law.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:31 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

Saracens in Rugby just got relegated for wages irregularities.
Man City cooked their books. Got a lot of unfair advantage. Yes relegation is a grest deterrent if you want to stop such behaviour. Crime must not pay.

They can do what they want but relegating a club because of not reporting income is stupid and will open a can of worms. This is just blowing this out of proportion IMHO.

Look at the clubs that have fallen foul of financial regulations lately - City, PSG..... clubs where money is being pumped in from external sources and maybe not operating in a true business sense. They can afford the fines. It's chicken change to them. They crave success and will do anything to get there.
That is why relegation is adequate deterrent. Exactly the opposite of why they are willing to break the law.

Only in football where pumping money into an investment a bad thing, lol! The Arabs are pumping billions! Oh no!! FFP is to keep the elites at the top, it's a rotten system and there's nothing good about it, personally I don't blame City for doing what they did. What's really crooked to me is seeing leagues where there have only been one winner for seven years, what's the point? I despise those so club big clubs more than I like City that's why I'm hoping City's lawyers shred FFP. From what I understand they already sent 8 of their lawyers promptly while UEFA sent two and UEFA already asked for a compromise and reduced sentence but City declined.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:29 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
It is always been obvious from day 1 that was a bit of 'abracadabra' about Man City's finances.

They should be relegated from the EPL as well. Nonsense.

Relegated for what? Where refs bribed? Did players take PEDs? If there were on field cheating then yes but to punish players who worked hard is just obvious people don't like new kids taking their spot.

Saracens in Rugby just got relegated for wages irregularities.
Man City cooked their books. Got a lot of unfair advantage. Yes relegation is a grest deterrent if you want to stop such behaviour. Crime must not pay.

They can do what they want but relegating a club because of not reporting income is stupid and will open a can of worms. This is just blowing this out of proportion IMHO.

Look at the clubs that have fallen foul of financial regulations lately - City, PSG..... clubs where money is being pumped in from external sources and maybe not operating in a true business sense. They can afford the fines. It's chicken change to them. They crave success and will do anything to get there.
That is why relegation is adequate deterrent. Exactly the opposite of why they are willing to break the law.

Only in football where pumping money into an investment a bad thing, lol! The Arabs are pumping billions! Oh no!! FFP is to keep the elites at the top, it's a rotten system and there's nothing good about it, personally I don't blame City for doing what they did. What's really crooked to me is seeing leagues where there have only been one winner for seven years, what's the point? I despise those so club big clubs more than I like City that's why I'm hoping City's lawyers shred FFP. From what I understand they already sent 8 of their lawyers promptly while UEFA sent two and UEFA already asked for a compromise and reduced sentence but City declined.

You cannot sign up to a rule and then decide to break it because you don't agree with it.
Football is not immuned to "Money Laundering". It's a business and should be rin as such with all the guidelines.

If the Arabs want to operate without any guidelines then I'm sure there are football clubs in the Middle East... If you want to be part of Europe then obey the rules.

The relegation is just my opinion. But my poi t is in Rugby a club was relegated for less and they are like the Man City of Rugby Union.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:48 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
You cannot sign up to a rule and then decide to break it because you don't agree with it.
Football is not immuned to "Money Laundering". It's a business and should be rin as such with all the guidelines.

If the Arabs want to operate without any guidelines then I'm sure there are football clubs in the Middle East... If you want to be part of Europe then obey the rules.

The relegation is just my opinion. But my poi t is in Rugby a club was relegated for less and they are like the Man City of Rugby Union.

The rules are nonsense anyway so I'm not surprised it was breached. You can make a case for money laundering when you bring proof of monies being laundered, shouting firm a rooftop doesn't prove anything. Obeying the rules in this case means the elites can't be touched otherwise they get you out on technicalities by quickly making up rules and using that to hang you with. Abeg this is much ado about nothing.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Nothing wrong with pumping money into football as long as it’s done within the regulations.

It’s easy to cite successful cases like City, but what about numerous other instances where fans were left carrying the bag after the supposed “pumping of money was merely an illusion?

Other clubs have had to play by the rules and balance their accounts, yet City have cooked the books and used fake sponsorship money to sustain high salaries under the tag of image rights, paid through third party companies that they in fact own...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:55 pm 
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Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
You cannot sign up to a rule and then decide to break it because you don't agree with it.
Football is not immuned to "Money Laundering". It's a business and should be rin as such with all the guidelines.

If the Arabs want to operate without any guidelines then I'm sure there are football clubs in the Middle East... If you want to be part of Europe then obey the rules.

The relegation is just my opinion. But my poi t is in Rugby a club was relegated for less and they are like the Man City of Rugby Union.

The rules are nonsense anyway so I'm not surprised it was breached. You can make a case for money laundering when you bring proof of monies being laundered, shouting firm a rooftop doesn't prove anything. Obeying the rules in this case means the elites can't be touched otherwise they get you out on technicalities by quickly making up rules and using that to hang you with. Abeg this is much ado about nothing.


The sad part here is that you have refused to educate yourself about the issue involved.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:02 pm 
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txj wrote:
Mr. Piffington wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
You cannot sign up to a rule and then decide to break it because you don't agree with it.
Football is not immuned to "Money Laundering". It's a business and should be rin as such with all the guidelines.

If the Arabs want to operate without any guidelines then I'm sure there are football clubs in the Middle East... If you want to be part of Europe then obey the rules.

The relegation is just my opinion. But my poi t is in Rugby a club was relegated for less and they are like the Man City of Rugby Union.

The rules are nonsense anyway so I'm not surprised it was breached. You can make a case for money laundering when you bring proof of monies being laundered, shouting firm a rooftop doesn't prove anything. Obeying the rules in this case means the elites can't be touched otherwise they get you out on technicalities by quickly making up rules and using that to hang you with. Abeg this is much ado about nothing.


The sad part here is that you have refused to educate yourself about the issue involved.

I don't care, it's European football so it's not that serious to me. It's all one big mafioso cartel anyway with every block trying to protect their interests, there's no right or wrong. One blocks makes rules that benefit them, another block breaks the rules because it benefits them. Same old game.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:21 am 
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pajimoh wrote:
Kabalega wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Kabalega wrote:
jette1 wrote:
mcal wrote:
...success bring scrutiny. Their rise is questionable.

It’s not about that bro. It’s about money flowing in/ spending exceeding what the club actually makes and in fact any of the premier league club is susceptible to same accusation

The FFP rules were put in place to protect the status quo of the big clubs like ManU, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich.

PSG, Man City, Chelsea, e.t.c.... are just playing catchup to these guys.
But the old guard don''t like it one bit!
So they came up with "legal" schemes like this to protect themselves.
When you have a conspiract theory, at least make your case.
Do you know for a fact Man City are 'not guilty' of what they've been accused of? Enlighten us
Do you know for a fact that this is a new law enacted to entrap Man City? Tell us
Do you know for a fact that Man City are just one of several clubs outside the 'old guard' to fall foul of this selective law? Show us.

Otherwise, how do you expect us to take your theory seriously? :D

This is not a theory but a fact!
Michelle Platini and his cronies came up with this ruse to slow down the new kids on the block.

City is accused of doing what every other club is doing.
Barca got funding from Qatar to help them balance their books.
City got Emirates.

However, the evidence used against City was illegally obtained (hacked emails).
The Eufa, honcho. involved was clearly biased from the get go.

There's always someone willing to defend illegality. I don't care if their emails hacked or their account books stolen. Where they cooking their books and getting unfair advantage?

If you obey the rules then you have no problem if your emails were hacked.

Please stop this ya nonsense about every other club is doing it. Really?

Where does the illegality start and stop?

In my book, it starts with Michelle Platini, passing a law to prevent new wealthy owners from spending money on Euro clubs and challenging the status quo.

They cannot compete anymore, so they pass a law to protect their interests and you support that $#%? Heck NO!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:56 am 
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Kabalega wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Kabalega wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Kabalega wrote:
jette1 wrote:
mcal wrote:
...success bring scrutiny. Their rise is questionable.

It’s not about that bro. It’s about money flowing in/ spending exceeding what the club actually makes and in fact any of the premier league club is susceptible to same accusation

The FFP rules were put in place to protect the status quo of the big clubs like ManU, Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich.

PSG, Man City, Chelsea, e.t.c.... are just playing catchup to these guys.
But the old guard don''t like it one bit!
So they came up with "legal" schemes like this to protect themselves.
When you have a conspiract theory, at least make your case.
Do you know for a fact Man City are 'not guilty' of what they've been accused of? Enlighten us
Do you know for a fact that this is a new law enacted to entrap Man City? Tell us
Do you know for a fact that Man City are just one of several clubs outside the 'old guard' to fall foul of this selective law? Show us.

Otherwise, how do you expect us to take your theory seriously? :D

This is not a theory but a fact!
Michelle Platini and his cronies came up with this ruse to slow down the new kids on the block.

City is accused of doing what every other club is doing.
Barca got funding from Qatar to help them balance their books.
City got Emirates.

However, the evidence used against City was illegally obtained (hacked emails).
The Eufa, honcho. involved was clearly biased from the get go.

There's always someone willing to defend illegality. I don't care if their emails hacked or their account books stolen. Where they cooking their books and getting unfair advantage?

If you obey the rules then you have no problem if your emails were hacked.

Please stop this ya nonsense about every other club is doing it. Really?

Where does the illegality start and stop?

In my book, it starts with Michelle Platini, passing a law to prevent new wealthy owners from spending money on Euro clubs and challenging the status quo.

They cannot compete anymore, so they pass a law to protect their interests and you support that $#%? Heck NO!

It is obvious you don't know what you're talking about.
A club belong to the fans as much as the owners.
Football is also a business. If your expenditure is constantly more than you earn then there's going to be a problem. This is basic accounting. Even if you keep borrowing, assuming legitimate lending houses agree to, sooner or later you will fold.

UEFA is not saying the new cash clubs cannot challenge the status quo, they are saying do it within your business earnings. That goes for the status quo too.

If you earn a Dollar but keep spending 100, where is the money coming from, who pays, what's the payment arrangement?

Other clubs are following the rules. They are unable to buy this player or that because of the restrictions. Meanwhile Man City has the same financial restriction but cheat to buy players your business income cannot afford then you cook the books to seem like you have the means to afford it.

Man City could have built a 100,000 capacity stadium to increase their revenue. But they have a small market compared to the staus quo you're mentioning who, over 100 years, have built up their brand.
Man City can spend a trillion if they have a trillion Dollar business.

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