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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:45 am 
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Is it me or Lampard sure has some serious white fragility and entitlement syndrome? Just watch his video responding to Raheem on his privilege vis a vis Sol Campbell and others. He got so defensive, talking about how he worked hard before becoming Chelsea coach. Dude, if you don’t think your whiteness, and privilege pave the way for you, then you are seriously lost. How many players from your generation that are black get to coach a world class team at this level? Like Drogba, Makalele, Ashley Coles are not as hardworking as you? Give me a break!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:15 am 
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furiously frank wrote:
Is it me or Lampard sure has some serious white fragility and entitlement syndrome? Just watch his video responding to Raheem on his privilege vis a vis Sol Campbell and others. He got so defensive, talking about how he worked hard before becoming Chelsea coach. Dude, if you don’t think your whiteness, and privilege pave the way for you, then you are seriously lost. How many players from your generation that are black get to coach a world class team at this level? Like Drogba, Makalele, Ashley Coles are not as hardworking as you? Give me a break!


You have a point.
However, Lampard dived into management a year after retirement
In his first managerial season in charge of Derby, he guided the club to the Championship play-offs .

Instead of pursuing a managerial career, Sol Campbell went into British politics. He only turned to management 5 years after his career
Drogba & the Ashley Coles have failed to even take the first step
Makélélé has taken the right steps at the right time, but he is simply a bad coach

It is tough for blacks, but they should go into management when they are still famous, i.e. a year or two after retirement.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:03 am 
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Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:26 am 
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marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:59 am 
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theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


not exactly lost on me, i did mention his path to management was certainly easier due to the privilege we all mention but he is a decent coach, thats my opinion

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:27 pm 
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marko wrote:
theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


not exactly lost on me, i did mention his path to management was certainly easier due to the privilege we all mention but he is a decent coach, thats my opinion

Yeah, but the issue was never about his ability. That's an unnecessary distraction from the crux of the point, which is his privilege got him the opportunity to prove he's a decent coach.

It's somewhat like you're trying to All Lives Matter the issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:31 pm 
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Rawlings wrote:

You have a point.
However, Lampard dived into management a year after retirement
In his first managerial season in charge of Derby, he guided the club to the Championship play-offs .

Instead of pursuing a managerial career, Sol Campbell went into British politics. He only turned to management 5 years after his career
Drogba & the Ashley Coles have failed to even take the first step
Makélélé has taken the right steps at the right time, but he is simply a bad coach

It is tough for blacks, but they should go into management when they are still famous, i.e. a year or two after retirement.

Why do you think they hesitate to do so or don't even bother?

Quote:
Ex-Ghana coach Appiah claims prejudice in salary delay

By Juliet Mafua
BBC Sport Africa
Last updated on 17 June 2020


Former Ghana coach Kwesi Appiah has said he is being treated in a way no white coach in Africa would be as he awaits salary arrears totalling nearly $200,000 from his time in charge of the Black Stars.

Appiah's second spell in charge of Ghana, which started in April 2017, ended at the turn of the year.

The Ministry of Youth and Sports says it will pay the money "soon", blaming the delay on the coronavirus pandemic.

"I was owed money since August 2019 when there was no Covid-19," Appiah told BBC Sport Africa. "Would they owe a white coach for 11 months?"

The 59-year-old, who has previously said he feels 'disrespected' by the way his case is being handled, says he is owed $185,000, most of which covers five months' unpaid salary.

"(My predecessor) Avram Grant was not owed more than a month when his contract ended," Appiah explained.

The reason the Israeli, who led the Black Stars between 2014-2017, was not paid at that time was because he had yet to file a report on the 2017 Africa Cup of Nations on time, but his arrears were swiftly settled once he did.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/53001488

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:33 pm 
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furiously frank wrote:
Is it me or Lampard sure has some serious white fragility and entitlement syndrome? Just watch his video responding to Raheem on his privilege vis a vis Sol Campbell and others. He got so defensive, talking about how he worked hard before becoming Chelsea coach. Dude, if you don’t think your whiteness, and privilege pave the way for you, then you are seriously lost. How many players from your generation that are black get to coach a world class team at this level? Like Drogba, Makalele, Ashley Coles are not as hardworking as you? Give me a break!

I agree , his race played a huge factor and this is systematic. You should hear dwight York, who even had alex Ferguson as a mentor , and coaches refused to hire him . Hopefully a type of Rooney rule can be applied in the UK similar to the US of freaking racist A

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:33 pm 
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theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


Guess everyone is beginning to know Marko. When I said for years that he is one of the dumbest forumers in the history of the internet, you guys said I was being too harsh.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:45 pm 
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Did Raheem have to name names tho? When U name names wetin U expect tho?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:39 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:
theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


Guess everyone is beginning to know Marko. When I said for years that he is one of the dumbest forumers in the history of the internet, you guys said I was being too harsh.



I am wondering about this Marko too. Danfo, you're lucky you abstain from R'nR
According to Marko,
1. Obama and his people were/are about to be indicted for crimes against Candidate Trump.
2. Bill Gates owns the patent to coronaviruses, and he has the vaccine.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:07 pm 
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paj wrote:
Did Raheem have to name names tho? When U name names wetin U expect tho?

PaJ, we are at a place where you need to name names. He did the same thing when the racist mofo British press called out Adarabioyo's for buying house for Mum and said nothing about Folden:

Quote:
Sterling posted two pictures showing headlines from the Daily Mail newspaper. One talked about a young black player, Tosin Adarabioyo, spending millions of pounds buying a house, while the other headline talked about a young white footballer, Phil Foden buying his mum a home.
In fact, both players were buying homes for their mothers.
The point that Sterling was making was that the young white players are shown in a more positive way than young black players.


If he didn't do that, British press will barely report it. You had to call out systemic racism directly, otherwise it gets whitewashed by the press. He was doing the same thing here. I know this hurt, as you are a Chelsea fan, but take this one on the chin. He was right on the money.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/47639883

England's Danny Rose has told the BBC that his teammates were "over the moon" to see Raheem Sterling criticise the media's coverage of black players saying he was "spot on".
Sterling, who plays for Manchester City, was allegedly racially abused by a Chelsea fan during a Premier League match in December 2018.
After the incident, Sterling posted on his Instagram saying that British newspapers help 'fuel racism' by the way they portray black footballers.
"Raheem was only saying what we all say in the dressing room," said Danny Rose, who is Sterling's England teammate.
Rose was speaking ahead of England's European Championship qualifier against the Czech Republic on Friday.
When asked about Sterling's view on the media's portrayal of black players, Rose said: "It's sad really but he's 100% spot on with what he said."
"The stick he used to get from the media was bang out of order. When he put the [Instagram] post up about the media we were all over the moon with that because we all agree. Fair play to Raheem.

"One of the few positive things about social media now is you have a voice and you can influence people," Rose added.
"Now it's not just boys in the dressing room talking about the media targeting Raheem, the general public have now seen it."
"We hope it changes but it doesn't affect Raheem in any way, which we are all grateful for."

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:08 pm 
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Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Kabalega wrote:
Rawlings wrote:

You have a point.
However, Lampard dived into management a year after retirement
In his first managerial season in charge of Derby, he guided the club to the Championship play-offs .

Instead of pursuing a managerial career, Sol Campbell went into British politics. He only turned to management 5 years after his career
Drogba & the Ashley Coles have failed to even take the first step
Makélélé has taken the right steps at the right time, but he is simply a bad coach

It is tough for blacks, but they should go into management when they are still famous, i.e. a year or two after retirement.

Why do you think they hesitate to do so or don't even bother?
Quote:
Ex-Ghana coach Appiah claims prejudice in salary delay


They fail to try because it is difficult.
However, that is not a good excuse.
E.g. African footballers have it more difficult succeeding in Europe and yet we have had some exceptional players making their mark.
If they (Drogbas, Okochas, Kanus & co) don't even try management/coaching, we will never know-how good they could have been.
As an African/black, we are born into difficulty.

On Ghana's coach Appiah: He is right, but as u can see the problem is not a white-on-black thing. Even we blacks do not trust our own blacks

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Last edited by Rawlings on Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:17 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.

kpom to the 9th degree. Thanks.
PaJ, this is how an objective Chelsea fan should respond to this issue. fair & balanced.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Rawlings wrote:
furiously frank wrote:
Is it me or Lampard sure has some serious white fragility and entitlement syndrome? Just watch his video responding to Raheem on his privilege vis a vis Sol Campbell and others. He got so defensive, talking about how he worked hard before becoming Chelsea coach. Dude, if you don’t think your whiteness, and privilege pave the way for you, then you are seriously lost. How many players from your generation that are black get to coach a world class team at this level? Like Drogba, Makalele, Ashley Coles are not as hardworking as you? Give me a break!


You have a point.
However, Lampard dived into management a year after retirement
In his first managerial season in charge of Derby, he guided the club to the Championship play-offs .

Instead of pursuing a managerial career, Sol Campbell went into British politics. He only turned to management 5 years after his career
Drogba & the Ashley Coles have failed to even take the first step
Makélélé has taken the right steps at the right time, but he is simply a bad coach

It is tough for blacks, but they should go into management when they are still famous, i.e. a year or two after retirement.


Except that he did....

Quote:
His bid to manage in Europe began shortly after he retired in 2012, when he started coaching at the Gunners. Inspired by working under a great like Arsène Wenger, and Harry Redknapp and Glenn Hoddle, he expressed his desire to become a manager, believing he had what it took to succeed.

But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin: “There are no opportunities for me here, not until attitudes change anyway,” Campbell told The Guardian in 2013. “Everyone has to ask themselves why there are not more black managers in this country. I’ve spoken to other black players who want to coach and they feel the same, that attitudes here are archaic.”


https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/08/2 ... est-level/

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:06 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.


KPOM, but how to do we get the good ol boys club to start letting them in these elevators, and actually giving them a fair chance. The NFL's attempt to help with this issue (Rooney Rule) to me isn't necessarily working out either, Teams just interview more black coaches because they are mandated to, but still don't hire them. When we ask for hiring quota they start complaining, but how else will we get in?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:15 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
Rawlings wrote:
furiously frank wrote:
Is it me or Lampard sure has some serious white fragility and entitlement syndrome? Just watch his video responding to Raheem on his privilege vis a vis Sol Campbell and others. He got so defensive, talking about how he worked hard before becoming Chelsea coach. Dude, if you don’t think your whiteness, and privilege pave the way for you, then you are seriously lost. How many players from your generation that are black get to coach a world class team at this level? Like Drogba, Makalele, Ashley Coles are not as hardworking as you? Give me a break!


You have a point.
However, Lampard dived into management a year after retirement
In his first managerial season in charge of Derby, he guided the club to the Championship play-offs .

Instead of pursuing a managerial career, Sol Campbell went into British politics. He only turned to management 5 years after his career
Drogba & the Ashley Coles have failed to even take the first step
Makélélé has taken the right steps at the right time, but he is simply a bad coach

It is tough for blacks, but they should go into management when they are still famous, i.e. a year or two after retirement.


Except that he did....

Quote:
His bid to manage in Europe began shortly after he retired in 2012, when he started coaching at the Gunners. Inspired by working under a great like Arsène Wenger, and Harry Redknapp and Glenn Hoddle, he expressed his desire to become a manager, believing he had what it took to succeed.

But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin: “There are no opportunities for me here, not until attitudes change anyway,” Campbell told The Guardian in 2013. “Everyone has to ask themselves why there are not more black managers in this country. I’ve spoken to other black players who want to coach and they feel the same, that attitudes here are archaic.”


https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/08/2 ... est-level/



"But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin"
Making my point for me. (check my other post)
We all agree it is difficult for the black man, but if we don't try we will never know

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:19 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
green4life wrote:
Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.


KPOM, but how to do we get the good ol boys club to start letting them in these elevators, and actually giving them a fair chance. The NFL's attempt to help with this issue (Rooney Rule) to me isn't necessarily working out either, Teams just interview more black coaches because they are mandated to, but still don't hire them. When we ask for hiring quota they start complaining, but how else will we get in?


The Rooney rule is one step in the right direction. What they need to further combat the problem is a Rooney rule for personnel decision makers (owners & GM's). It won't solve the problem but it will be another tool to bridge the gap a bit. The EPL has nothing in place so its zero hope for a black person with an interest in coaching at the highest level.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Sol Campbell, is perhaps not the best argument against white privilege, given his own sense of entitlement was heavily steeped in "you owe me's", for services rendered. Campbell is more than likely, one of an ever expanding number of ex-professionals relegated from lofty height to obscurity, in search of managerial opportunities, as a consequence of their colouring. The culture concealed by layers of facade, sees inverse proportionality between concentration of melanocytes and ability to effectively manage. Yes, there is need for change, not just in the bigoted views that hold the black ex-professional down, but also in the mentality of the man, that sees him chained to the mast of their ship. Gone are the days of East India, the world is one's oyster. To Campbell and alike, why crawl on one's knees to be acknowledged, there are far more advanced cultures offshore. Germany, Holland for example. Venture.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:49 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Sol Campbell, is perhaps not the best argument against white privilege, given his own sense of entitlement was heavily steeped in "you owe me's", for services rendered. Campbell is more than likely, one of an ever expanding number of ex-professionals relegated from lofty height to obscurity, in search of managerial opportunities, as a consequence of their colouring. The culture concealed by layers of facade, sees inverse proportionality between concentration of melanocytes and ability to effectively manage. Yes, there is need for change, not just in the bigoted views that hold the black ex-professional down, but also in the mentality of the man, that sees him chained to the mast of their ship. Gone are the days of East India, the world is one's oyster. To Campbell and alike, why crawl on one's knees to be acknowledged, there are far more advanced cultures offshore. Germany, Holland for example. Venture.


can't he argue that the lack of opportunities forced him to this condition? could it be a case of, "I would tooth my own horn if you ignore me.
And do you seriously think Lampard comment here is not hewn out of the same sense of entitlement?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:57 pm 
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Rawlings wrote:

"But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin"
Making my point for me. (check my other post)
We all agree it is difficult for the black man, but if we don't try we will never know


:roll: are you sure you read the article? Please go back and read the entire thing. here is another excerpt.

Quote:
It would have been easy to give up and move into the comfort of the television studio or the security of obscurity. But Campbell’s desire didn’t diminish. “People may think that I just want to manage in the Premier League but I’m prepared to go to a non-league club,” he told The Guardian in 2017. “If they can’t pay me a salary just pay me a win bonus. I’m up for that … I’m itching to start, I just need a chance.

That chance didn’t come and Campbell’s frustration only grew as his former England teammates eased into management. Gary Neville went to Valencia, Steven Gerrard found himself at Rangers and Frank Lampard got the Derby gig. All three appointed before Campbell; all three younger than Campbell; all three hired by big clubs.

But of all the appointments, it was that of Joey Barton at League One Fleetwood which really rubbed salt into the wound. Barton, a player who achieved only a fraction of what Campbell did and someone twice as divisive had been given his first managerial job within months of retiring.

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
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He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:41 pm 
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Yea...they hardly give black coaches jobs in Europe, but Africa quickly give Oyibo jobs and it's the Oyibos you never heard of. How will people respect you.


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