Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
I am not sure. If South America had only three spots per world coup, they would probably have still won 7 world cups. It is not just the number it is also the quality.Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:14 pmYes they will, when they constantly meet each other in the knockout rounds. Give Africa16 spots at the WC and see how many times we make the finals. In fact place 2 African teams in a worldcup group and see how many make it to round 2 or q finals. The more reps you have the better the chances of winning the worldcup. Brazil and Argentina have done so well winning 7 worldcups .kalani JR wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:58 pmIf every central american and carribean country was in the World Cup would they have the advantage?Guv007 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:23 amAs long as UEFA Countries have the numbers at the WC they will always have the advantage.Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:52 pmin the last 6 or 7 World cups, which country has performed better than Brazil other than France or Germany? 2018(Q-final) 2014( Semis) 2010( q-final) 2006( q-final) 2002( winners) 1998( finalist) 1994(winners) last 7 WCs : 2 tiles, 1 final, 1 semi, and 3 q-finalsScipio Africanus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:40 pm I highly doubt Brazil will make it past the quarter finals(that's their new level) in the next WC, but we'll circle back to this topic next year.
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Numbers are a huge factor. We are talking about reps here . The more participants a continent has. The better their chances are. So let's assume Europe produces 5 reps. Italy, Germany, France , Spain and England, how many times do you think they would make the last 4 of the world cup if CAF had 16 or SA had 10 or Asia had 16 etc?
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
if your argument is about making it to the last 4, I agree, but winning the whole thing is a different matter. A decent team can make it to the last 4, but you need to be excellent to win. This is why I argue that it is the number of quality teams that matter and not the whole number of teams, if you look at the winners of the WC.Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:14 pm Numbers are a huge factor. We are talking about reps here . The more participants a continent has. The better their chances are. So let's assume Europe produces 5 reps. Italy, Germany, France , Spain and England, how many times do you think they would make the last 4 of the world cup if CAF had 16 or SA had 10 or Asia had 16 etc?
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
The numbers work both ways. By just looking at the numbers, it is more likely for a European team to win it than an African team (assuming all teams are equally strong). It is also more likely that a knocked out team (for example during the group stage) is european than african. Yet at the 2018 World Cup more African teams went out after the group stage than European teams (5 vs 4).
Also usually there 13-14 European Teams at the World Cup (out of 32), so a European team winning the cup should less likely than a non-european team winning it. Unless of course other factors are at play (quality of the teams, possible home (continent) advantage, rigged refs etc)
Also usually there 13-14 European Teams at the World Cup (out of 32), so a European team winning the cup should less likely than a non-european team winning it. Unless of course other factors are at play (quality of the teams, possible home (continent) advantage, rigged refs etc)
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Nigeria finished third at the AFCON are you backing them to perform well at the World Cup?Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:18 pmActually Colombia finished 3rd in Copa AmericaKing Futcha wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:55 amexactly, that thot just likes to run her mouth.kalani JR wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:40 amWhen did you last watch Colombia?bret- hart wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:50 am These Euro teams are overrated. Brazil and Argentina will win it again soon. Even Colombia can win. f we had a good coach not that senle old man **** Nigeria would beat most of these Euro teams. Dont forget also that the World Cup is designed for them to win. 32 teams 16 alone from Europe. WTF.
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Your hypothesis is wrong. Europeans teams are better than african teams. That is why the number of teams is not an important factor.kofi86 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:41 pm The numbers work both ways. By just looking at the numbers, it is more likely for a European team to win it than an African team (assuming all teams are equally strong). It is also more likely that a knocked out team (for example during the group stage) is european than african. Yet at the 2018 World Cup more African teams went out after the group stage than European teams (5 vs 4).
Also usually there 13-14 European Teams at the World Cup (out of 32), so a European team winning the cup should less likely than a non-european team winning it. Unless of course other factors are at play (quality of the teams, possible home (continent) advantage, rigged refs etc)
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
I'VE IDENTIFIED THE PROBLEM YOU RAISED & TO OVERCOME IT...Orion wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:28 pm There is clearly a gap growing mainly due to globalization. All the money is flowing to the centre - Europe. The European leagues are getting richer and more powerful while South American leagues have regressed from the standard that created the likes of Pele, Zico, Maradona, Romario, Ronaldo etc. Many of those players ended up in Europe, of course, but they were developed in South America. How long can that continue if their leagues continue to decline?
...I proposed a regional structure in world soccer. It would start with W. Africa as the test bed where the region becomes one league with most of the countries contributing one, two or three teams. If competently established and managed in the way that I proposed, It'd would be good enough financially and organizationally to bring back the region's best players. The same template would be used by N. Africa, East/Central Africa and then S. America and Asia, not necessarily in that sequence. I'm still waiting to hear some open-minded discussion on this other than someone saying it's not perfect, therefore, dump it. Instead people, including FIFA, are just going with flow with everybody seeking to identify with a team in Spain or England.
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
^Imagine. Cyclical since when? Brazil will be mbanefoed any given Sunday should they meet any of Europe’s elite. Argentina the same. The less said of the rest the better. South America, Africa, Asia etc are akin to the white man in the 100M final. There to make up the numbers.
Remember when Pele said “an African country will win the World Cup” and all manner of bowjangling followed. Not any time soon. Said it then, will say it now. As close to no chance as probability allows.
Remember when Pele said “an African country will win the World Cup” and all manner of bowjangling followed. Not any time soon. Said it then, will say it now. As close to no chance as probability allows.
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
A South American country will NOT win in '22, after that yes and it will be Brazil.
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Brazil are done for as long as they now have donkeys like Richarlison playing for them in a Copa final. Before 2010 guys like him would be at best be groundsman
Today the only samba player they have in the mould of the old stars is Neymar and that's it
Sad
I hope Argentina never win it. I hate them
Today the only samba player they have in the mould of the old stars is Neymar and that's it
Sad
I hope Argentina never win it. I hate them
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Many factors.
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Messi would have been different from Mbappe or Kante because he came to Europe as a star. But he turn down so that does not count.Molue Conductor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:37 pm Many factors.
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
Those players like Mbappe or Kante were born in raised in France. So it is a bit insulting to say that they have a first pick on players who learned the game in Europe. They reap what they sow. I wish they extended this to education too. Look at Germany today versus in the 80s. The team is more diverse, which is an indication they they do a better job at finding talents in the whole society.
How about they have 6 out of 7 because they deserve this?
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
They are learning from that experience. Defense is serious for them these days.
Man is comfortable in His imperfection but uncomfortable in His perfection. Me. (Inspired by Karol Józef Wojtyła - Crossing the Threshold of Hope)
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Add me to the list of Argentina haters. What those fascists did to the Indian population is worst than what Hitler did to the Jews.Comrade Machel wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:05 am Brazil are done for as long as they now have donkeys like Richarlison playing for them in a Copa final. Before 2010 guys like him would be at best be groundsman
Today the only samba player they have in the mould of the old stars is Neymar and that's it
Sad
I hope Argentina never win it. I hate them
Man is comfortable in His imperfection but uncomfortable in His perfection. Me. (Inspired by Karol Józef Wojtyła - Crossing the Threshold of Hope)
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
I don't think Brazil is often at a real disadvantage, other than Thiago I can't think of a Brazilian who outright rejected Brazil for their other country.Molue Conductor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:37 pm Many factors.
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
I think first pick is not the right word, they get options.kalani JR wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:30 amI don't think Brazil is often at a real disadvantage, other than Thiago I can't think of a Brazilian who outright rejected Brazil for their other country.Molue Conductor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:37 pm Many factors.
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
There are a few Brazilians Jorginho, Eduardo, Diego Costa, Pepe. Comes to mind for Brazilians.
But this is bigger than Brazil.
Imagine of Nigeria needs a LB to balance the team, our options are more limited than if Austria/Germany/Belgium etc. needs one. Germany can pull from rejected but still decent LB from players from other countries with some German allegiance. I can only remember one case in Africa, when Tunisia won the ANC in 2004 with their Brazilian striker
The fact is Europe gets this advantage in this respect more so than others, and combined with other things it adds up.
Example on point 1. WC are generally schedules to be played on weather agreeable to Europeans. If it's too hot for them, then water breaks are mandated. If it's too cold for Africans, nothing is done.
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Jorginho and Emerson, who just won the Euros with Italy, are Brazilians who switched nationality to represent Italy.kalani JR wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:30 amI don't think Brazil is often at a real disadvantage, other than Thiago I can't think of a Brazilian who outright rejected Brazil for their other country.Molue Conductor wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:37 pm Many factors.
European monopoly on club football means the rules/referring are continuously consciously and unconsciously being adjusted to suit European style football.
Soccer diaspora means Europe has first pick on players with dual allegiance. (Messi admitted that he was approached to suit up for Spain)
Better economy facilities and infrastructure. US is not even really interested in football but they are on par with most elite African teams simply based on infrastructure availability.
Progressive thinking FA. Europe essentially made the Nation's League to remove the South American advantage in FIFA rankings of playing more "top level games". It worked, 6 of the top seven are European. This affects seeding in the world Cup
Mauro Camoranesi, who won the WC with Italy in 2006, was born in Argentina and came up through their youth football system, but switched to Italy.
Thiago Alcantara, as the son of the Brazilian 1994 WC winner Mazinho, was eligible for Brazil but chose Spain and played for Spain in these just concluded Euros.
I'm sure there are a few more South American stars who chose European teams that I've overlooked.
Wha choo looking at?!
Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
We talking South America not Africa, and UEFA numbers and seedings gives them an advantage over South American/CONMEBOLcamex wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:36 pmYour hypothesis is wrong. Europeans teams are better than african teams. That is why the number of teams is not an important factor.kofi86 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:41 pm The numbers work both ways. By just looking at the numbers, it is more likely for a European team to win it than an African team (assuming all teams are equally strong). It is also more likely that a knocked out team (for example during the group stage) is european than african. Yet at the 2018 World Cup more African teams went out after the group stage than European teams (5 vs 4).
Also usually there 13-14 European Teams at the World Cup (out of 32), so a European team winning the cup should less likely than a non-european team winning it. Unless of course other factors are at play (quality of the teams, possible home (continent) advantage, rigged refs etc)
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
And lost to Argentinaazuka wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:33 pmNot even that self. Brazil finally has a complete team: 2 world class goalies, a world class striker and world class defenders. Add to that a coach that's tactically sound.Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:52 pmin the last 6 or 7 World cups, which country has performed better than Brazil other than France or Germany? 2018(Q-final) 2014( Semis) 2010( q-final) 2006( q-final) 2002( winners) 1998( finalist) 1994(winners) last 7 WCs : 2 tiles, 1 final, 1 semi, and 3 q-finalsScipio Africanus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:40 pm I highly doubt Brazil will make it past the quarter finals(that's their new level) in the next WC, but we'll circle back to this topic next year.
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Re: Will a South American country ever win the WC again?
Brazil alone can't go through all the top UEFA Countries on its own and needs other top teams to soften them up or knock them out and a bit of luck.wanaj0 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:59 amAnd lost to Argentinaazuka wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 4:33 pmNot even that self. Brazil finally has a complete team: 2 world class goalies, a world class striker and world class defenders. Add to that a coach that's tactically sound.Bigpokey24 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:52 pmin the last 6 or 7 World cups, which country has performed better than Brazil other than France or Germany? 2018(Q-final) 2014( Semis) 2010( q-final) 2006( q-final) 2002( winners) 1998( finalist) 1994(winners) last 7 WCs : 2 tiles, 1 final, 1 semi, and 3 q-finalsScipio Africanus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:40 pm I highly doubt Brazil will make it past the quarter finals(that's their new level) in the next WC, but we'll circle back to this topic next year.
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