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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:16 am 
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Vincent. wrote:
I knew YUJAM would deliver an uppercut to the EPL :rotf: :rotf:
This is the second time in three years that all EPL teams are exiting at the first hurdle. The good thing about this is that we can enjoy the Champions League calmly without the EPL hyperbole


Football started in the last 3 years. Neither the European Cup or even CL nor any Euro competition started in the last 3 years, so you guys give it a rest. The EPL is the toughest of the leagues physically with the hardest duels, playing opponents who never give up, and you do not get a mid winter break. The EPL is the league that commands the largest audience thus the most money because of its unique attributes like its competitiveness.

However, these attributes that have given the EPL club advantages have now left them exposed to the other top leagues in Europe - especially the clubs with big money. Tactically, the clubs have always been up there with the best, however, these clubs have caught up on the physical side of the game. Their players have bulked up and are as strong as big as the EPL rivals. I have seen EPL teams lose sharpness many a time because there had nothing left both physically. It is now a real problem which must be addressed, or else they keep on losing close games to fresher European sides.

It is up to the EPL to seriously look at the practices which are affecting their game. For me, it is only a question of time before a 2 week break is introduce in the EPL. Before that, there will be Friday football, currently it is the police stopping it but it is only a matter of time, these games will be taken up by CL teams who play the next Tuesday. I expect to see changes because physically, it is now becoming too demanding for team in the EPL to compete in Europe and their league.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:47 am 
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benteke wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


i agree with this too :thumb:


I don't know why this is a biggie. It's not even as if the margin of defeats were that wide. Chelsea and Arsenal lost on the agr. It happens to all the big footballing countries and clubs. England has been there before. Likewise Spain. I remember a time when English clubs were so bad in Europe that Barca once whooped Man Utd 4-0 with Stoichkov and Romario scoring twice each. That same Man Utd around that period beat Barca 2-1 in the Euro Cup Winners Cup final. When did Real win the UCL before their triumph last season? When did Barca even start winning the UCL?

This is just overkill.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:31 pm 
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This winter break induced fatigue excuse is BS. The problem for EPL teams is one of skill level and tactical awareness. Anyone who watches La Liga, Bundesliga or even the Pprtuguese league will tell you that teams there exhibit far more skill and tactical cohesiveness than what you see in the EPL.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:55 pm 
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amafolas wrote:
Skylolo wrote:
amafolas wrote:
Skylolo wrote:
Some soul searching to do for the EPL....technically and tactically we are being left behind.

I can only speak for my own club Arsenal, I think our rebuilding is almost done and we will be better when we come back to the competition next year. But the truth is regardless of what we do it is hard to see us being anywhere close to the big 3 in Europe these days...Barca, Bayern and Real.

Stop using we for arsenal. You are not not one of us. And carry your inferiority complex and go.


You should try and think for once instead of making trivial comments that do not add anything to the useful discussion here that will interest any stakeholder in English top flight football especially the top clubs....based on past form do you think it matters to me what a complete nonentity like you thinks? :laugh:

Were you not the one saying last summer when we were trying to sign Alexis that we should not buy players from Barca and Real because according to you they are all "overrated"...I actually agree I am not one of you, I am not a "we" with blind sheep! :oops:


But I am still a gunner and you are not. You are a Juventus (or is it PSG fan) who also fancies Arsenal every now and then. Little wonder you have so little emotion invested in Arsenal and can shrug off every managerial incompetence withut care. You are not one of us. I am so glad i am wrong about Alexis. Overpriced okpolo eyes and that yeye Argentine Manure bought are in their ways proving I am not altogether wrong.

About the EPL, these things go in cycles. EPL will be back. Arsenal should be stronger next season. ManCity needs to hit F5 button on their squad. Their current team has run its course and have lost their hunger. Mourinho and Chelsea will get this summer to reload and get a team more attuned to the way he wants to play. EPL will be fine. The money advantage they have is huge but it is a 2-edged sword. Big EPL teams are no longer dependent on champions league income like they were in the early 2000s. Playing in the EPL is now more lucrative than playing in the champs league. I won't be shocked if recent trends subliminally reflect that shift. Playing in the champs league is now mainly about player recruitment and not income generation for the top clubs.


Don't need your endorsement and not interested in a discussion with you....get lost.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.

Not doing much better in the Europa league as well...Everton may be bundled out tonight.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Skylolo wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.


so it must be the coaches then.

Pellegrini, Mourinho, Wenger are tactically clueless ?
But when Pellegrini and Mourinho where outside England they where doing ok, Mourinho won CL twice whilst outside England.
Will give Rogers a pass since he has no experience in Europe.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:31 pm 
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benteke wrote:
Skylolo wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.


so it must be the coaches then.

Pellegrini, Mourinho, Wenger are tactically clueless ?
But when Pellegrini and Mourinho where outside England they where doing ok, Mourinho won CL twice whilst outside England.
Will give Rogers a pass since he has no experience in Europe.


I dont think it is the Coaches, I think it is the culture of English football.....holding these teams back. Though I was a bit sad when Guardiola went off to Bayern and we got Bourinho instead, I would have liked a revolutionary coach like that in England to help move one of the big English sides forward.

The up and down nature of the English game without enough emphasis on "control" is hurting English teams in Europe...sometimes you look at the criticism a very intelligent midfield player like Mesut Ozil gets for trying to add a bit of control and you understand the problems of English football.....

We used to have a big advantage on the fitness side but that is gone. And the way the big 3 in Europe have been able to buy the very best players presents another problem.....let us not deceive ourselves at all, the best players in the World are at Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid. It is their cast offs and the ones that are not good enough for them that come to England....

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:44 pm 
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Skylolo wrote:
benteke wrote:
Skylolo wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.


so it must be the coaches then.

Pellegrini, Mourinho, Wenger are tactically clueless ?
But when Pellegrini and Mourinho where outside England they where doing ok, Mourinho won CL twice whilst outside England.
Will give Rogers a pass since he has no experience in Europe.


I dont think it is the Coaches, I think it is the culture of English football.....holding these teams back. Though I was a bit sad when Guardiola went off to Bayern and we got Bourinho instead, I would have liked a revolutionary coach like that in England to help move one of the big English sides forward.

The up and down nature of the English game without enough emphasis on "control" is hurting English teams in Europe...sometimes you look at the criticism a very intelligent midfield player like Mesut Ozil gets for trying to add a bit of control and you understand the problems of English football.....

We used to have a big advantage on the fitness side but that is gone. And the way the big 3 in Europe have been able to buy the very best players presents another problem.....let us not deceive ourselves at all, the best players in the World are at Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid. It is their cast offs and the ones that are not good enough for them that come to England....


yeah i do agree with fan culture part, i also see how LVG is getting a lot of stick from Man Utd fans and pundits for trying to teach the team a new philosophy of patient build ups and ability to be good on the ball and control games, something that will make Man U better team in Europe - the fans dont even want it, they say its too slow and boring, they want what they call "swashbuckling" football :rotf:

- interestingly the Man Utd team that won Champions League in 2008 was said to be boring by the Old Trafford faithful, it used to grind out 1-0 wins, but in reality that team was tactically sound for Europe, Quieroz was drafted in to inject some tactical innovation in that time.
That one i the last Man Utd team i really thought coud beat anyone in Europe, and your can read more about its tactics here http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/20/ ... d-2006-09/


and its true, all the best players prefer Bayern, Barca, Madrid, but this all doesnt explain the likes of Atletico Madrid and its 4-4-2, cheap players, Dortmund making finals recently etc :biggrin:


Last edited by benteke on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:54 pm 
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I lost count of how many times Man City gave away the ball without any pressure. If City had played a deadly counter attacking game (which Barca planned to defend), they would have had a chance but Barca would probably have been more clinical too.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:56 pm 
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This is what I mean, many teams have lost even before a ball is kicked against these sides......

Quote:
Giorgio Chiellini..
"If I can, I would avoid Bayern," the 30-year-old centre-back told reporters. "But we will still watch the draw with great emotion."


:rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:56 pm 
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the demise of EPL's two traditional heavyweights in Europe - Liverpool & Man U - is not a good thing,these are the EPL teams that know how to navigate Europe, they have a history and know how to create an atmosphere for CL nights, and at their best, they could up the ante and keep EPL standards high.

some stats to ponder for those interested - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_C ... statistics


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:22 am 
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Waffiman wrote:
Vincent. wrote:
I knew YUJAM would deliver an uppercut to the EPL :rotf: :rotf:
This is the second time in three years that all EPL teams are exiting at the first hurdle. The good thing about this is that we can enjoy the Champions League calmly without the EPL hyperbole


Football started in the last 3 years. Neither the European Cup or even CL nor any Euro competition started in the last 3 years, so you guys give it a rest. The EPL is the toughest of the leagues physically with the hardest duels, playing opponents who never give up, and you do not get a mid winter break. The EPL is the league that commands the largest audience thus the most money because of its unique attributes like its competitiveness.

However, these attributes that have given the EPL club advantages have now left them exposed to the other top leagues in Europe - especially the clubs with big money. Tactically, the clubs have always been up there with the best, however, these clubs have caught up on the physical side of the game. Their players have bulked up and are as strong as big as the EPL rivals. I have seen EPL teams lose sharpness many a time because there had nothing left both physically. It is now a real problem which must be addressed, or else they keep on losing close games to fresher European sides.

It is up to the EPL to seriously look at the practices which are affecting their game. For me, it is only a question of time before a 2 week break is introduce in the EPL. Before that, there will be Friday football, currently it is the police stopping it but it is only a matter of time, these games will be taken up by CL teams who play the next Tuesday. I expect to see changes because physically, it is now becoming too demanding for team in the EPL to compete in Europe and their league.

Chief, you are missing the point. YUJAM's post is part of a debate that has been going on here since the EPL declared itself "the best league in the world." We have been arguing since then that it is not the best league in the world and that it was extremely overrated. What we have now is a situation where that claim looks completely absurd.

The "best league in the world" slogan is a marketing slogan promoted by Sky Sports, when held most of the TV rights to the EPL. It was a slogan intended to market their product (EPL matches on worldwide TV) and had nothing to do with the quality of the league itself. A lot of EPL fans swallowed it even though they could not actually explain what made it the "best" league. So, they rush here to make absurd proclamations and dismiss other leagues that they don't even bother to watch.

Even in those years when they claimed that EPL teams "dominated" the Champions League (from 2008 to 2011), EPL teams won only one Champions League title (Man United in 2008) while Barcelona won in 2009 and 2011 and Inter in 2010. That is no domination.

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The EPL is the toughest of the leagues physically with the hardest duels, playing opponents who never give up, and you do not get a mid winter break. The EPL is the league that commands the largest audience thus the most money because of its unique attributes like its competitiveness

These are the types unsubstantiated claims we have been arguing against for years. Where is the evidence to back up any of these claims? What were EPL teams winning in Europe before foreign teams "bulked up?" How "bulked up" are players of Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich? Where is the evidence that other top leagues are less "competitive" than the EPL?

As YUJAM said, the main problem with the EPL is the technical quality of most of the players, their tactical intelligence, the quality of youth development, and the level of coaching in the lower teams. In this day and age, physicality and "hardness" will not win you too many games at the elite level (which is why the top EPL teams have very few English players). Instead, you are more likely to get sent off.

Another problem is that the top EPL teams spend most of their time playing against smaller EPL teams that play "hard," "never-give-up," and "competitive" football (which is another way of saying they play kick-and-rush football), as a result of which they are technically and tactically exposed when they step up to play against the European elite.

Another reason is that few of the very best players (the cream of the cream) never come to the EPL or come there when they are about to retire or no longer wanted by the elite European teams. In fact, the best EPL players are the players who are no good enough to play for Real Madrid, Barcelona, or Bayern (David Silva, Mata, Navas, Cazorla, etc) or discarded by Barcelona or Real Madrid (Ozil, Alexis Sanches, Fabregas, etc). The only exceptionms are Arguero, De Gea and others who were banned from moving from Atletico Madrid to Real Madrid because of football politics and not needed by Barca at that time. Those who manage to establish themselves in the EPL move to Barcelona, Madrid, or PSG... That cannot but affect the quality of the league's top teams...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:44 am 
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Skylolo wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.

Not doing much better in the Europa league as well...Everton may be bundled out tonight.

Oboy Barca can do what they do to City to any team even Bayern or Madrid.
Also on a good day,Chelsea or Arsenal can shut down this Barca and make them look clueless.
You think Monaco will beat Arsenal if we play them 4 times straight more than one?
You think PSG will beat Chelsea if they play twice again?Things happen and Arsenal has beat better Barca team 2-1 at emirate with one of our worst teams in recent years.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:29 am 
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The future looks bright though for the EPL. The EPL's main problem is that the best players in the World right now are Germany, Spain and South America. German players move to Bayern, the rest to Barca or Real. EPL is only second choice. We all know that English players won't improve anytime soon, but - luckily for the EPL - it seems that France might develop World Class players again. And in the past French players often moved to the EPL.

The best thing EPL clubs could do with their new tv contract is to just reroute the money straight to French clubs so that they can develop top class players who can compete with German/Spanish/South American players.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:34 am 
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Waffiman wrote:
Football started in the last 3 years..


:clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:57 am 
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kajifu wrote:
Skylolo wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I doubt it, do you see Citeh completely dominating Barca like that in 2 years time?...........Forget about the result it was the way they were out-classed...this could have been 8-2 to Barca.....and the worrying thing is they can do that to any other EPL side imo.

Cast your mind back to the group stages as well, I remember how a 10 man Bayern totally dominated Citeh at the Etihad as well though a great individual performance from Aguero saved them that day.

Remember what Real Madrid did to another European heavyweight Liverpool? It looked like men against boys....game was over very quickly.

It is not players because Citeh and other English teams have great flair players as well; it is something to do with the football culture in this Country.

EPL big teams need to have a re-think and work a lot more on their technique and tactics. 2nd time in 2 years this has happened, we are being left behind.

Not doing much better in the Europa league as well...Everton may be bundled out tonight.

Oboy Barca can do what they do to City to any team even Bayern or Madrid.
Also on a good day,Chelsea or Arsenal can shut down this Barca and make them look clueless.
You think Monaco will beat Arsenal if we play them 4 times straight more than one?
You think PSG will beat Chelsea if they play twice again?Things happen and Arsenal has beat better Barca team 2-1 at emirate with one of our worst teams in recent years.

Right now, Monaco would have more good days than Arsenal in those 4 games.

The EPL is generally, lagging tactically, so I don't blame you for not seeing that Monaco was tactically more mature than Arsenal in both legs.

How many times has Wenger rued his team's naivety this season? I lost count! Tack on his own admissions to coaching mistakes and I don't see Arsenal winning a 4 game contest over Monaco.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:07 am 
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This early CL exit can only be a good wake-up call for EPL !

There will be a massive backlash and arms race this summer transfer window, the EPL and its top teams will come back stronger next season and beyond.

The top teams are Rebuilding !!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:27 am 
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Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I know 2 yrs has elapsed, but we are still back with 4 in the 1/4 finals aren't we :thumbs:
Or is it too early, shall we wait for an EPL champion


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:41 am 
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benteke wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Cyclical. We will be back here in 2 years time laughing at this thread.


I know 2 yrs has elapsed, but we are still back with 4 in the 1/4 finals aren't we :thumbs:
Or is it too early, shall we wait for an EPL champion



The EPL boo boys will not be happy with you unearthing this thread :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:14 am 
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femibyte wrote:
Yujam, remember this - every dog has its day. You're acting like someone with no knowledge of statistics, and having gone to engineering school with you, I know that's not the case. You base your generalization on a sample size of 2 years. C'mon Yus, you're better than that. :tic:

In any case for me, its Liverpool and the EPL for life... :thumbs:
:bump: :bump: :bump:
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 am 
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okidoki wrote:
The only thing wrong with the EPL, is primarily the extra winter month, which we all enjoy when other leagues are shut down. Anyone that follows Chelsea for example, knows that they had lost steam after the wretched winter marathon games they had.
I was praying that we would scrap best PSG, unfortunately we couldn't.
Why many here still equate the Epl, with British players is something i'll never understand. The top teams have less than 15-20% English makeup, with mostly renowned European coaches.
The lack of winter breaks is the biggest issue. This also affects even National teams, with most of their internationals coming from the Epl.
The FA has to finally ask themselves, do they keep focused on just the money, or make their teams more competitive.
It becomes disturbing when an Epl coach would pick his bench warmers for an Europa game, to focus his full attention on his team and their Epl games. They do this because financially it makes more sense for them.
So the second thing is that they have become a victim of their success.
There are other factors, but these two points are the main ones. You can call them names all you want, but Epl will keep powering as it's just more international in nature than any of the other leagues.
:bump: :bump: :bump:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am 
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The EPL is the second best league in Europe no doubt.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:38 am 
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airwolex wrote:
The EPL is the second best league in Europe no doubt.

What does 'best' actually mean?
Its an ambiguous statement and an unwinnable argument.
Just like"
"Michael Jackson is the best musician of all time"
"Usain Bolt is the best athlete we've ever seen"
'Denzel Washington is the best American actor"
"Jollof rice is the best Nigerian food"
"JJ OKocha was the best Nigerian footballer"


The best league is even harder to define. Maybe they should take a La Liga x1, a Bundesliga XI, an EPL XI and a Serie A XI (all regardless of nationality) and have them play a knock out compeition every two years.

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