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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Nope, euthanasia. Pellegrini is done, he has refused to evolve tactically and is now making the same mistakes as if stuck in a groundhog day. Manuel has had ample time and coinage with which to establish an ever evolving entity, instead, he continues to roll out the same generic shape, system, ideology, whatever the weather, with the in-play reactivity of a retired motor neurone. 4-4-2 vs Barcelona, with open concession of the midfield, one again, what has been learned from past failure? Where is the evolution? He's peaked and is now at plateau, following that plummet. There is every possibility City will lose their hold on 2nd in the coming weeks. He's done his bit. Out.


Done after two seasons? The first in which he won two titles?
You cannot base such serious decisions on ephemerals like his use of the 4-4-2. Afterall, the man won two titles with it!
Where is the stability in such short termism?

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:15 pm 
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txj wrote:
Coach wrote:
Nope, euthanasia. Pellegrini is done, he has refused to evolve tactically and is now making the same mistakes as if stuck in a groundhog day. Manuel has had ample time and coinage with which to establish an ever evolving entity, instead, he continues to roll out the same generic shape, system, ideology, whatever the weather, with the in-play reactivity of a retired motor neurone. 4-4-2 vs Barcelona, with open concession of the midfield, one again, what has been learned from past failure? Where is the evolution? He's peaked and is now at plateau, following that plummet. There is every possibility City will lose their hold on 2nd in the coming weeks. He's done his bit. Out.


Done after two seasons? The first in which he won two titles?
You cannot base such serious decisions on ephemerals like his use of the 4-4-2. Afterall, the man won two titles with it!
Where is the stability in such short termism?

City will let him go.If Jose dont win the league with his advantage might follow him.
Hopefully City and Chelsea open yash this coming weekend to make the race tied


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:46 pm 
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@Tx, City are on the verge of losing their grip on second and could find themselves in a struggle for top four. Manuel is on the cusps of finished,


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:41 pm 
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Coach wrote:
@Tx, City are on the verge of losing their grip on second and could find themselves in a struggle for top four. Manuel is on the cusps of finished,

Chei has been poor sha


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:10 am 
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Rear court press and clobbered!!!

@Tx, when you're quite ready.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:07 pm 
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No surprises here TBH. A little worse than I expected, but without Skrtel especially, it was going to be a huge ask.

Problem IMO wasn't tactical. It came right down to personnel and squad weaknesses. A 3-4-3 is a solid formation, as long as you have proper wingbacks. Liverpool don't have one, and didn't recruit for the formation in the summer. It came from a clever manager adapting as best he can.

Someone will point to the summer spending, but how much you spend is contingent on how deep a hole you are filling in the first place. I fault the owners in this. At the top level in the EPL, you need to invest in one fell swoop and then top up as you go along.

Arsenal is the perfect example of the perils of installmental investment; players leave before the project comes together...Ultimately, the story is not that LFC spend 100mp in the summer; its how that compares with the squad of rivals. Yesterday, United had Falcao, Di Maria, Rafael on the bench...

With a proper and fit goal scorer, Liverpool would've taken the lead after Mignolet's early saves and the game would've been different. Same with the United game.

But credit to Arsenal. It was a wonderful display of attacking football, even if the defensive balance was lacking, as LFC opened up that central defence enough times. The real test will be against Jose's team though...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:06 pm 
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And to the summer, does Rodgers build around this basis, or plug more holes, as per previous? Liverpool certainly need a right wingback and Emre Can must grace the midfield with his presence, thus making a sound centre-half an essential acquisition.

Agreed, the 3-4-3/3-4-2-1 is indeed a sound and sensible system, less so than a 3-2-4-1, but a firm foundation nonetheless. What happened to Manquillo? Is Moreno good for a full season at left wingback, does Sterling stay or go? Does Mignolet move on?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:43 pm 
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txj wrote:
No surprises here TBH. A little worse than I expected, but without Skrtel especially, it was going to be a huge ask.

Problem IMO wasn't tactical. It came right down to personnel and squad weaknesses. A 3-4-3 is a solid formation, as long as you have proper wingbacks. Liverpool don't have one, and didn't recruit for the formation in the summer. It came from a clever manager adapting as best he can.

Someone will point to the summer spending, but how much you spend is contingent on how deep a hole you are filling in the first place. I fault the owners in this. At the top level in the EPL, you need to invest in one fell swoop and then top up as you go along.

Arsenal is the perfect example of the perils of installmental investment; players leave before the project comes together...Ultimately, the story is not that LFC spend 100mp in the summer; its how that compares with the squad of rivals. Yesterday, United had Falcao, Di Maria, Rafael on the bench...

With a proper and fit goal scorer, Liverpool would've taken the lead after Mignolet's early saves and the game would've been different. Same with the United game.

But credit to Arsenal. It was a wonderful display of attacking football, even if the defensive balance was lacking, as LFC opened up that central defence enough times. The real test will be against Jose's team though...


what simply happened is that the more astute managers with the resources figured out this 3-4-3 stuff, it was only a matter of time.
That is what happens in this league, analysts will sit down for hours and identify weaknesses in a system and target them.
That is also part of the reason why people think Chelsea's form dropped dramatically, its just that every opposition has fine tuned a counter strategy, especially to stop Cesc.

It was good this 3-4-3, and it might still have a life for Rodgers as season comes to an end


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Its not so much about 'figuring out the 3-4-3', as about having the players to exploit the weaknesses of the Liverpool squad (not system). Its not rocket science...Liverpool have not one player who is a wingback, in what is a specialist position. Merely using wide players like Sterling and Ibe, simply doesn't cut it.


@Coach,

His recruitment in the summer would have to address the overall weaknesses of the squad. I think that's how you address it, not simply to be able to play one set formation...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:51 am 
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Coach wrote:
Nope, euthanasia. Pellegrini is done, he has refused to evolve tactically and is now making the same mistakes as if stuck in a groundhog day. Manuel has had ample time and coinage with which to establish an ever evolving entity, instead, he continues to roll out the same generic shape, system, ideology, whatever the weather, with the in-play reactivity of a retired motor neurone. 4-4-2 vs Barcelona, with open concession of the midfield, one again, what has been learned from past failure? Where is the evolution? He's peaked and is now at plateau, following that plummet. There is every possibility City will lose their hold on 2nd in the coming weeks. He's done his bit. Out.


@Tx, he's done.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:25 am 
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And in regard to recruitment in the summer addressing overall shortages, how then does this cover the lack of specialist wingbacks, if the chosen formation, 3-4-3, is not the driving force behind the recruitment strategy?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Coach wrote:
And in regard to recruitment in the summer addressing overall shortages, how then does this cover the lack of specialist wingbacks, if the chosen formation, 3-4-3, is not the driving force behind the recruitment strategy?


It has to be as a matter of managerial due diligence, cover all bases. That's what a balanced squad should give you- the ability to adapt to all possible scenarios; to switch systems as well as adapt to absences, be they from injury, loss of form or suspensions...or just simply to adapt to the opponent.

Already, absent the formation issue, the team is very thin on lateral defenders, be they full or wing backs. There are two really good ones in the academy, but they are 1-2 years away, in spite of being internationals already for Northern Ireland and Australia.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Pelle will be fired if Manu beat them as they might be in hot water fighting for top 4 with spurs and Liverpool..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:38 pm 
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@Tx, what's the procedure with a gun in your face? An afe old conundrum and one Pellegrini will soon answer. 4-4-2 perhaps, as has been his retort all season, lopsided and languid. Fired!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:31 pm 
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txj wrote:
Coach wrote:
Nope, euthanasia. Pellegrini is done, he has refused to evolve tactically and is now making the same mistakes as if stuck in a groundhog day. Manuel has had ample time and coinage with which to establish an ever evolving entity, instead, he continues to roll out the same generic shape, system, ideology, whatever the weather, with the in-play reactivity of a retired motor neurone. 4-4-2 vs Barcelona, with open concession of the midfield, one again, what has been learned from past failure? Where is the evolution? He's peaked and is now at plateau, following that plummet. There is every possibility City will lose their hold on 2nd in the coming weeks. He's done his bit. Out.


Done after two seasons? The first in which he won two titles?
You cannot base such serious decisions on ephemerals like his use of the 4-4-2. Afterall, the man won two titles with it!
Where is the stability in such short termism?


YES, done and dusted!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:08 pm 
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More I watched the game, the more I wondered if Pele was looking to get fired!

For me the key difference is his decision to play a reactive game. Yaya spent more time shadowing Felliani than playing his game. The whole Silva - Milner setup was a play on marking Carrick.

What's more, the decision on the quick delivery, over the top meant that tthey never played to their technical ability to control the game. Ironically their 2 goals would come from periods of control of the game.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:47 pm 
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His time is up, as predicted in January. He's done, turn the cooker off Jemima, the goose is cooked. Today showed how primitive Pellegrini's thinking and confirmed an assertion made early in the day, surrendipity followed the better players last term. Armed with the advantage, the advantage was pressed home. Today, against a very obvious outfit with an obvious ploy, he was pathetic and tendered one of the worst managerial displays in recent history. What was the point of Milner? How does one turn a three man midfield into a beacon of porosity? What was the point of Navas? What was the plan for the ball up to Fellaini? Pathetic and fired, possibly by morning.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:03 pm 
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Coach wrote:
His time is up, as predicted in January. He's done, turn the cooker off Jemima, the goose is cooked. Today showed how primitive Pellegrini's thinking and confirmed an assertion made early in the day, surrendipity followed the better players last term. Armed with the advantage, the advantage was pressed home. Today, against a very obvious outfit with an obvious ploy, he was pathetic and tendered one of the worst managerial displays in recent history. What was the point of Milner? How does one turn a three man midfield into a beacon of porosity? What was the point of Navas? What was the plan for the ball up to Fellaini? Pathetic and fired, possibly by morning.


I'll be shocked if he's fired. That's not how to run a team.. Besides some of the issues around City are deeper than such ephemeral analysis...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:17 pm 
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@Tx, granted the glove didn't fit, but the trigger finger was OJ's. Pellegrini is culpable and must be shot of, he's failed and is showing no signs of viability. Running a team is as much about timely change as it is stability.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:18 am 
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@ Coach,

Do we really need fullbacks in the modern game?

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:31 pm 
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^For simplicity of attack, yes, if one considers the box the borders beyond which thought cannot travel. What is the fullback today besides the most predictable of pawns, straight lines, 90 degrees from the horizontal, up, down, up, down. That football's orthodoxies haven't evolved beyond this prerequisite is quite amazing. An important position in both phases of play, but at the same time, restrictive, for their employment forces the hand greatly as far as tactic be concerned, perhaps too much so. The flat back four, leaving six outfield positions for play and somewhat shrinks the options for their deployment. One has always felt a back three with a double pivoting screen of advanced stoppers and outside centrehalves of savvy in the flanks a more sensible, variable and flexible shape. Why must movement be at ninety degrees? Why not 60? Why runners from outside in, why not from inside to out? Why do tactics look for direct opponents, why not attack the roots of confusion...In the art of Sun Tzu, fight the enemy where they aren't.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:35 pm 
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IMO the fullback position is an anachronism if anyone is willing to think outside the box. Why?

It basically comes down to math.

1. Most teams in the modern game play with one striker.
2. The game in the wide areas is typically inverted, with the zone of weakness being attacked, the gap between the FB and CD.
So what's the point of the FB positioned wide?

3. Even if a team were to attack wide, what's their objective? To deliver the cross...
But in light of the Mayweather theory I ask: Why deploy primarily to stop the cross if/when you can defend the cross?
Evidence 1: Celtic vs Barcelona UCL 2013

4. The key for me is 3 specialist centerbacks with ball playing ability, aerial dominance, speed, ability to read the game, aka anticipation (with the tackle as a last resort)...

5. This allows the team put primary focus on the midfield, in terms of numbers and the diversity of qualities required. Technically, it gives the manager, 6 options in midfield!

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:57 pm 
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Absolutely. That teams place such emphasis on attacking width from so deep a starting point is quite ridiculous, further indictment on the fullback is the vulnerability that comes from the turnover of possession in the advanced phase. All too often, for want of the overlap, the team is left with two defenders to fend off a counter, unsuccessfully. One was somewhat surprised Rodgers didnt evolve on his 3-4-2-1 once injuries etc robbed him anything close to an adequate deputy wingback. A 3-2-4-1 or 3-3-3-1 for instance.


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