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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:24 am 
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danfo driver wrote:
This will hurt some people. After all their agenda about Mou hating Mata. etc etc. :lol: :lol: :lol:




It does not Mata

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:44 am 
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danfo driver wrote:
This will hurt some people. After all their agenda about Mou hating Mata. etc etc. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Have you heard the expression fattening the cow to command a bigger price?

Not all teams are dumb and directionless like Arsenal who allow their prized asset to run down the lane of depreceation while penny pinching only to lose it all at the end. While i am noy saying there is trouble between Jose and Mata, the truth here is there is more to a cobtract extension thaan being in the manager's good books, especially when the club is being run like a proper club as opposes to elemu n get on club down over at north London.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Benteke, thanks for that link. One interesting (and often forgotten) element of the Glazer takeover, is that SAF was indirectly responsible for the instability that allowed the Glazers to buy the club (a fact that Roy Keane famously taunted SAF about to his face just before his acrimonious exit from the club): viewtopic.php?f=1&t=254069&hilit=keane

It was SAF's dispute with shareholders Magnier and McManus (men who owned nearly one-third of the club) that led them to sell their shares to the Glazers. Imagine an employee picking fights with the owners of the company that employs him. Not even the legendary SAF could win that one.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:47 pm 
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I have been saying for years that Man Utd should stop this experiment of playing Tony V and Young (wingers) at FB. It works against lower division/weaker teams where they rarely get tested, but they can be exposed against quality attackers. Yesterday was a case in point. Young just switched off and watched Eriksen run past him and score. A "natural" defender would have been more alert. It is not Young's fault that he is being asked to do things that are not natural to his game.

Why play Young at LB at all when the club has Shaw, Blind, Rojo, and Darmian (ACTUAL defenders) who play LB?


Last edited by wiseone on Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Of the generation of young CDs signed by big clubs this season, Umtitti and Skriniar are head and shoulders above everybody else.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:35 pm 
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txj wrote:
Of the generation of young CDs signed by big clubs this season, Umtitti and Skriniar are head and shoulders above everybody else.

Laporte?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:41 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
txj wrote:
Of the generation of young CDs signed by big clubs this season, Umtitti and Skriniar are head and shoulders above everybody else.

Laporte?

Too early to judge. Yerry Mina also has all the necessary physical tools to be an absolute beast alongside Umtiti.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:13 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
txj wrote:
Of the generation of young CDs signed by big clubs this season, Umtitti and Skriniar are head and shoulders above everybody else.

Laporte?


Not this season

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:14 pm 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

:D :clap:

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:35 pm 
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platinum wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
txj wrote:
Of the generation of young CDs signed by big clubs this season, Umtitti and Skriniar are head and shoulders above everybody else.

Laporte?

Too early to judge. Yerry Mina also has all the necessary physical tools to be an absolute beast alongside Umtiti.


Looking at performance this season, not simply talent/potential.

A very good defender can/will start for United as CD, like Bailly. You need more than that to start for Barca.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:36 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually, re-Umtiti.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Last edited by txj on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:23 am 
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txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

Arrant nonsense :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:28 am 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

It's debatable. I thought Umtiti started his Barca career slowly but he's been strong this season. Saw him in the flesh when Barca played Valencia earlier in the season and he stood out. France has a ridiculous number of quality centre-backs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:32 am 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

It's debatable. I thought Umtiti started his Barca career slowly but he's been strong this season. Saw him in the flesh when Barca played Valencia earlier in the season and he stood out. France has a ridiculous number of quality centre-backs.

In comparison, what was your opinion when you saw Chairman Bailly in the flesh?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:33 am 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

It's debatable. I thought Umtiti started his Barca career slowly but he's been strong this season. Saw him in the flesh when Barca played Valencia earlier in the season and he stood out. France has a ridiculous number of quality centre-backs.

In comparison, what was your opinion when you saw Chairman Bailly in the flesh?

I've only seen him play on TV. He's very good, no doubt at all about that.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:40 am 
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Didn't you watch Bailly in La Liga? He is an excellent passer up there with the likes of Stones. He is at 86 percent. Umtiti is at 92 percent but think the difference is Umtiti gets more shorter passing opps at Barca. Bailly could have thrived at Barca too

But like he I said they are all very good. Let's see how it plays out long term

txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually, re-Umtiti.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 pm 
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I did, in the two clubs he played for. Improved greatly at Villareal, but was never elite talent.
My views remain. He doesn't and never had the level for what is expected of a CB at Barca.


YUJAM wrote:
Didn't you watch Bailly in La Liga? He is an excellent passer up there with the likes of Stones. He is at 86 percent. Umtiti is at 92 percent but think the difference is Umtiti gets more shorter passing opps at Barca. Bailly could have thrived at Barca too

But like he I said they are all very good. Let's see how it plays out long term

txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually, re-Umtiti.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:08 pm 
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He didn't play much at Espanyol. In fact he was snapped up after only a handful of games. Five to be exact. This was his first stint at any top level so of course he'd continue to improve. At Villarreal he started to show signs that he could be elite but at Man U, he's been elite. IMO at least. The stats also suppoo this. His passing percentage, won tackles etc all point to this. He is also great at dealing with elite attackers.

I am quite sure Barca scouted him

txj wrote:
I did, in the two clubs he played for. Improved greatly at Villareal, but was never elite talent.
My views remain. He doesn't and never had the level for what is expected of a CB at Barca.


YUJAM wrote:
Didn't you watch Bailly in La Liga? He is an excellent passer up there with the likes of Stones. He is at 86 percent. Umtiti is at 92 percent but think the difference is Umtiti gets more shorter passing opps at Barca. Bailly could have thrived at Barca too

But like he I said they are all very good. Let's see how it plays out long term

txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually, re-Umtiti.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:51 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
He didn't play much at Espanyol. In fact he was snapped up after only a handful of games. Five to be exact. This was his first stint at any top level so of course he'd continue to improve. At Villarreal he started to show signs that he could be elite but at Man U, he's been elite. IMO at least. The stats also suppoo this. His passing percentage, won tackles etc all point to this. He is also great at dealing with elite attackers.

I am quite sure Barca scouted him

txj wrote:
I did, in the two clubs he played for. Improved greatly at Villareal, but was never elite talent.
My views remain. He doesn't and never had the level for what is expected of a CB at Barca.


YUJAM wrote:
Didn't you watch Bailly in La Liga? He is an excellent passer up there with the likes of Stones. He is at 86 percent. Umtiti is at 92 percent but think the difference is Umtiti gets more shorter passing opps at Barca. Bailly could have thrived at Barca too

But like he I said they are all very good. Let's see how it plays out long term

txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually, re-Umtiti.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...


He's done well so far, but elite is stretching it; much as one admires the Umbuntu thingy on here...Wouldn't even class Skriniar or Umtiti elite just yet; and both are well ahead of him this season. I suspect he may need to alter his approach a bit to stay healthy for extended stretches...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:26 pm 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
txj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Not cut and dry that Bailly is better than Laporte or Umtiti. It will take a while to make that determination. But as it stands, they are all very good defenders


It is, actually.

The Barcelona philosophy places a much, much higher demand on the CD than United's.

At Barca, the CD doesn't just have to stop an attack, he has to recover the ball technically, without loss of possession, in order to function as the foundation of the attacking game and of ball possession.

Few EPL defenders have the ability to do that.

Doesn't necessarily make them bad defenders; just of a lower technical level...

Arrant nonsense :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:26 pm 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Chairman Bailly is head, shoulder and stomach above Umtiti, Skriniar, Laporte etc without any question.

It's debatable. I thought Umtiti started his Barca career slowly but he's been strong this season. Saw him in the flesh when Barca played Valencia earlier in the season and he stood out. France has a ridiculous number of quality centre-backs.

In comparison, what was your opinion when you saw Chairman Bailly in the flesh?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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