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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:58 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
We should not be condoning racism on CE. In either direction.

This thread is racist.


You call it condoning racism, I call it criticizing injustice. Why must an overwhelmingly black group be led by a white person :?: :!:

Here’s an anecdote. I asked for help on a project I was leading at work. The project group was pretty diverse. Anyway, this young, White intern, a college junior at the time, was assigned to help out. Right from the get go, he was behaving as if he was in charge. Of course, I told him, as subtly as I could, where to get off. Thereafter, he got with the program :!:


Cheers.


so you are essentially looking for a payback and not justice

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:59 pm 
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oscar52 wrote:
I sometimes thank God there are no whites in Nigeria. SA vs Spain, the only white SA player on the field is the captain (the coach looks east Indian). USA vs Ecuador U20, 9 of the 11 players are blacks, mixed, or Latino yet one of the two white players is the captain (the coach is white). I know its a team but those things send an unhealthy message that blacks cant lead. Not a good look.


But there are white Nigerians.

Are they deserving to be captains?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:21 pm 
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jette1 wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
We should not be condoning racism on CE. In either direction.

This thread is racist.


You call it condoning racism, I call it criticizing injustice. Why must an overwhelmingly black group be led by a white person :?: :!:

Here’s an anecdote. I asked for help on a project I was leading at work. The project group was pretty diverse. Anyway, this young, White intern, a college junior at the time, was assigned to help out. Right from the get go, he was behaving as if he was in charge. Of course, I told him, as subtly as I could, where to get off. Thereafter, he got with the program :!:


Cheers.


so you are essentially looking for a payback and not justice


Gosh, don’t you ever tire of talking just for the sake of it? What do you mean by payback? OK, the next time you go to work, try giving your supervisor an assignment and see how well it goes down :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:19 am 
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ohenhen1 wrote:
oscar52 wrote:
I sometimes thank God there are no whites in Nigeria. SA vs Spain, the only white SA player on the field is the captain (the coach looks east Indian). USA vs Ecuador U20, 9 of the 11 players are blacks, mixed, or Latino yet one of the two white players is the captain (the coach is white). I know its a team but those things send an unhealthy message that blacks cant lead. Not a good look.


But there are white Nigerians.

Are they deserving to be captains?


Yes after paying their dues or having leadership qualities not because an head coach thinks a white person should be. I am not against whites or making whites captain of mostly black teams, just making sure its not some implicit bias because the coaches are usually white in those cases or Asian.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:57 am 
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The South African captain has played for them for donkey years. I think she used to play as far back as Mercy Akide's era. The real question you should be asking is why our team the Super Falcons is being coached by a washed up European coach??? Another question is why are CAF and other African FAs silent on blatant biased officiating at the expense of African teams in FIFA competitions? This ish has been going on since the 80s FFS. Abeg chop rice leave stone jare.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:41 am 
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bret- hart wrote:
The South African captain has played for them for donkey years. I think she used to play as far back as Mercy Akide's era. The real question you should be asking is why our team the Super Falcons is being coached by a washed up European coach??? Another question is why are CAF and other African FAs silent on blatant biased officiating at the expense of African teams in FIFA competitions? This ish has been going on since the 80s FFS. Abeg chop rice leave stone jare.


These issues are often related, you allow bias in one area it shows up in another.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:21 am 
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jette1 wrote:
akamoke wrote:
I live in SA and follow the Banyana Banyana team and Janine van Wyk is the deserved captain of the team, everything else is just looking for trouble when there isnt one. Just like there is a black Captain of the South African mostly white team...keeping it moving ->


since you live in sa why are there no white football players in the team but one



Probably majority white SA women play netball (& cricket/hockey) instead of football or rugby (& basketball/handball). The world ranking of netball team is higher than the football team. Team sports in SA that are dominated by blacks are still in the developing stage including Soccer.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:42 am 
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The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:10 am 
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goke313 wrote:
The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.

We are living with a nation of 150 million blacks employing a white foreign coach to manage her national team.
You are a citizen of that country!
Stop throwing stones because u live in a glass house

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:00 pm 
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goke313 wrote:
The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.


That's a lazy and ridiculous argument. Criticizing a criticism justifies the original criticism? :dream:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:06 pm 
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So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?

Is that also injustice.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Rawlings wrote:
What do u expect when a country of 150 million blacks employs a white coach to manage their national team?

:clap:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:30 pm 
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txj wrote:
So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?

Is that also injustice.


Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injustice :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:03 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?

Is that also injustice.


Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injustice :!:


Cheers.


So it’s now about preponderance of teams?

Pray what facts exactly support this theory of preponderance?

Btw, it doesn’t take painstaking effort to watch the WC and to see that the Italian captain is black.

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:18 pm 
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txj wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?

Is that also injustice.


Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injustice :!:


Cheers.


So it’s now about preponderance of teams?

Pray what facts exactly support this theory of preponderance?

Btw, it doesn’t take painstaking effort to watch the WC and to see that the Italian captain is black.


It would have been nice if you had a logical and relevant response instead of this rather dull rhetoric :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm 
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Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:43 pm 
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ohenhen1 wrote:
Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.


I know you’d love nothing more than to detract from the substance of this discussion and make it subjective. A proper response to your question would be, for all the competent white captains you can identify, how do you know there isn’t a more competent black person? Don’t bother to answer that because it is rhetorical and just like your question, irrelevant. The only relevant thing in this discussion is the fact that in all walks of life, wherever you have a group of black people with at least one white person, the white person tends to be selected as the leader of the group. Now if you want to dispute that fact, by all means, do so in a logical and relevant manner. Neither you nor I are familiar with the qualities of all white captains in the world so, don’t ask me stupid and subjective questions about white captains :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:49 pm 
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akamoke wrote:
Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.


What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussion :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:20 pm 
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ohenhen1 wrote:
Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.


I won't say the eventual captain didn't deserve it overall, but remember when Jerome Boateng an outfield player was overlooked for the goalkeeper Manuel Neuer?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:24 pm 
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kalani JR wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.


I won't say the eventual captain didn't deserve it overall, but remember when Jerome Boateng an outfield player was overlooked for the goalkeeper Manuel Neuer?



I do not know the full reason for this decision, but just on the basis of seniority alone, Neuer made his debut ahead of Boateng.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:47 am 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
akamoke wrote:
Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.


What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussion :!:


Cheers.


:clap:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:08 am 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
akamoke wrote:
Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.


What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussion :!:


Cheers.

As much as you are off tangent on the topic at hand, you also miss the mark in your judgement of my being.
If you know me well you will know that I rock the boat very well with my Afrikaans "friends" here in SA, including my employers. When arguing these points, I take emotions out of the equation and argue based on FACTS not feelings, else I wont be taken seriously, this is what experience teaches you.
The difference here is I do not cry foul when there is no legitimate reason to do so
Nothing uncomfortable about talking about institutional racism or prejudice, its just than in this case Van Wyck was always the obvious captain , one may even argue that it took so long considering her long service over 14 yrs and she only recently became captain having earned like 150 caps
If my rather calm approach to life, especially in this particular case is seen as "don't rock the boat", well, to each his own I guess :)

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