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Enugu II
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 am 
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There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html

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john12
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:26 am 
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How can they be african best when they couldn't reach wc quarter finals? Africa best is either cameroun 1990 Senegal 2002 or Ghana 2010. I think Ghana 2010 got it but because dem be midgets, I will give it to Senegal 2002
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folem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:27 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


The bolded is clearly untrue?
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kalani JR
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:36 am 
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Off the top if we're ranking them post 1990, it's Egypt 2008, Ghana 2010 tied with Nigeria 1994 and Cameroon 2002, Senegal 2002 then Keshi's Nigeria.
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scholl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:50 am 
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kalani JR wrote:
Off the top if we're ranking them post 1990, it's Egypt 2008, Ghana 2010 tied with Nigeria 1994 and Cameroon 2002, Senegal 2002 then Keshi's Nigeria.


Nigeria's 1994 team ended the tourney with 2 wins and 2 losses. Not exactly great. They were surely talented and exciting to watch.

I don't want anyone to tell me nonsense because I watched the ANC and WC at the time.
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Orion
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:44 am 
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Africa's best teams ever at the World Cup are:
1. Ghana 2010
2. Senegal 2002
3. Cameroon 1990
4. Nigeria 1994
5. Algeria 1982

Overall, if we also factor in the team's performance at the AFCON then the SE 1994 team ranks higher IMO:
1. Cameroon 1990 (1988 AFCON win)
2. Nigeria 1994 (1994 AFCON win)
3. Ghana 2010 (2010 AFCON final)
4. Senegal 2002 (2002 AFCON final)
5. Algeria 1982 (1980 AFCON final)

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TonyTheTigerKiller
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:35 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


EII, I do not judge the quality of teams solely on the basis of statistics because statistics can be very misleading. Case in point is the 1990 Cameroon team which got to the quarterfinals of the World Cup but was really mediocre in many of their games during that World Cup; they did let in 6 goals against Russia, remember? In fact, without Roga Milla, a last minute addition to the team, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the group.

Back to Nigeria 1994, I saw 3 of the 4 games they played at the World Cup and I can tell you for a fact that both of their losses were, unequivocally, courtesy of the referees. I can also tell you with the utmost certainty that if Nigeria had held on against Italy, they would have played in the final match of that World Cup. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Nigerian World Cup team of 1994 is the absolute best team Africa has ever sent to a World Cup. You can take that to the bank :!:


Cheers.
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john12
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 am 
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Lol Nigerians are DELUSIONAL foreal. They dont care about stats facts etc just speak based on their ideology
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Enugu II
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:23 am 
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scholl wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Off the top if we're ranking them post 1990, it's Egypt 2008, Ghana 2010 tied with Nigeria 1994 and Cameroon 2002, Senegal 2002 then Keshi's Nigeria.


Nigeria's 1994 team ended the tourney with 2 wins and 2 losses. Not exactly great. They were surely talented and exciting to watch.

I don't want anyone to tell me nonsense because I watched the ANC and WC at the time.


It appears your analysis is limited in scope. In the piece the 1994 squad is used as a base and then judged on games beyond that single tournament. It is a wider scope of analysis. Read the piece.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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scholl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:43 am 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


EII, I do not judge the quality of teams solely on the basis of statistics because statistics can be very misleading. Case in point is the 1990 Cameroon team which got to the quarterfinals of the World Cup but was really mediocre in many of their games during that World Cup; they did let in 6 goals against Russia, remember? In fact, without Roga Milla, a last minute addition to the team, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the group.

Back to Nigeria 1994, I saw 3 of the 4 games they played at the World Cup and I can tell you for a fact that both of their losses were, unequivocally, courtesy of the referees. I can also tell you with the utmost certainty that if Nigeria had held on against Italy, they would have played in the final match of that World Cup. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Nigerian World Cup team of 1994 is the absolute best team Africa has ever sent to a World Cup. You can take that to the bank :!:


Cheers.


Oga, you are mixing events of 1990 and 1994.
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scholl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:50 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
scholl wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Off the top if we're ranking them post 1990, it's Egypt 2008, Ghana 2010 tied with Nigeria 1994 and Cameroon 2002, Senegal 2002 then Keshi's Nigeria.


Nigeria's 1994 team ended the tourney with 2 wins and 2 losses. Not exactly great. They were surely talented and exciting to watch.

I don't want anyone to tell me nonsense because I watched the ANC and WC at the time.


It appears your analysis is limited in scope. In the piece the 1994 squad is used as a base and then judged on games beyond that single tournament. It is a wider scope of analysis. Read the piece.


Bros, it is not. Perhaps your use of non equitable terminology is the issue here. Base means exactly what it means....base. You also made reference to individual player achievement, to suggest the 1994 team being the strongest. If so, it still does not make it the best team.
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TonyTheTigerKiller
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:14 pm 
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scholl wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


EII, I do not judge the quality of teams solely on the basis of statistics because statistics can be very misleading. Case in point is the 1990 Cameroon team which got to the quarterfinals of the World Cup but was really mediocre in many of their games during that World Cup; they did let in 6 goals against Russia, remember? In fact, without Roga Milla, a last minute addition to the team, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the group.

Back to Nigeria 1994, I saw 3 of the 4 games they played at the World Cup and I can tell you for a fact that both of their losses were, unequivocally, courtesy of the referees. I can also tell you with the utmost certainty that if Nigeria had held on against Italy, they would have played in the final match of that World Cup. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Nigerian World Cup team of 1994 is the absolute best team Africa has ever sent to a World Cup. You can take that to the bank :!:


Cheers.


Oga, you are mixing events of 1990 and 1994.


In what way exactly? Perhaps, you are confused by my reference to the Cameroonian team of 1990. That reference was made only to emphasize that statistics are ultimately not very important in my assessment of a team’s quality :!:


Cheers.
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Enugu II
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:37 pm 
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scholl wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
scholl wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Off the top if we're ranking them post 1990, it's Egypt 2008, Ghana 2010 tied with Nigeria 1994 and Cameroon 2002, Senegal 2002 then Keshi's Nigeria.


Nigeria's 1994 team ended the tourney with 2 wins and 2 losses. Not exactly great. They were surely talented and exciting to watch.

I don't want anyone to tell me nonsense because I watched the ANC and WC at the time.


It appears your analysis is limited in scope. In the piece the 1994 squad is used as a base and then judged on games beyond that single tournament. It is a wider scope of analysis. Read the piece.


Bros, it is not. Perhaps your use of non equitable terminology is the issue here. Base means exactly what it means....base. You also made reference to individual player achievement, to suggest the 1994 team being the strongest. If so, it still does not make it the best team.


Sure you can argue about whether it is the best or not. That is the goal. I expect different perspectives, BTW.

However, the argument should be based on the scope here. The scope isn't just the AFCON of 1994. That appears to be what you have focused on. The scope is far beyond that. BTW, the base simply means a foundation which is exactly how it is used here. Except if you have a different conception of what a base means.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Enugu II
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:46 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


EII, I do not judge the quality of teams solely on the basis of statistics because statistics can be very misleading. Case in point is the 1990 Cameroon team which got to the quarterfinals of the World Cup but was really mediocre in many of their games during that World Cup; they did let in 6 goals against Russia, remember? In fact, without Roga Milla, a last minute addition to the team, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the group.

Back to Nigeria 1994, I saw 3 of the 4 games they played at the World Cup and I can tell you for a fact that both of their losses were, unequivocally, courtesy of the referees. I can also tell you with the utmost certainty that if Nigeria had held on against Italy, they would have played in the final match of that World Cup. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Nigerian World Cup team of 1994 is the absolute best team Africa has ever sent to a World Cup. You can take that to the bank :!:


Cheers.



TTTK,

Statistics serves its purpose and that should never be underestimated. It does give us a valuable view of the actual variations of any object. However, on this subject, statistics is not the only measure used. A significant part of the analysis is a qualitative-like examination.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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theYemster
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:50 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
scholl wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
There is no disputing the pedigree of Nigeria's 1994 national team that was ranked No.5 in the world, won the Cup for African Nations (AFCON), and reached the last 16 at the World Cup. Clearly, no Nigerian team has come close before and since then. Although, there are those who may argue that the 2013 team comes close but certainly not in the minds of a great number of Nigerian teams that witnessed that 1994 team.

But having stated the above, it is arguable whether that 1994 team can be classified as Africa's best squad ever in spite of its lofty No. 5 ranking back then. Some may well argue that the team's failure to overcome Italy at the 1994 World Cup forever condemns the team to a place in the rankings behind the three African teams that have ventured to the last 8 of a World Cup. But should statistics and records be the deciding factors on this issue of Africa's best? Well, lets take a look.


Quote:
Individual accolades obtained by individual players of players who were starters or fringe in those squads can also tell the story of the strength of the squads. The 1994 Nigerian squad produced, significantly, more players that received such accolades when compared to Cameroon 1990, Senegal 2002, and Ghana 2010 squads. Table 1 below provides the distribution of those accolades. This indicates the strength in depth of the Nigerian squad and how it was sustained several years after 1994.



Details can be found below with stats:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2019/08/1994-nigeria-africas-best-or.html


EII, I do not judge the quality of teams solely on the basis of statistics because statistics can be very misleading. Case in point is the 1990 Cameroon team which got to the quarterfinals of the World Cup but was really mediocre in many of their games during that World Cup; they did let in 6 goals against Russia, remember? In fact, without Roga Milla, a last minute addition to the team, they wouldn’t have gotten out of the group.

Back to Nigeria 1994, I saw 3 of the 4 games they played at the World Cup and I can tell you for a fact that both of their losses were, unequivocally, courtesy of the referees. I can also tell you with the utmost certainty that if Nigeria had held on against Italy, they would have played in the final match of that World Cup. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Nigerian World Cup team of 1994 is the absolute best team Africa has ever sent to a World Cup. You can take that to the bank :!:


Cheers.


Oga, you are mixing events of 1990 and 1994.


In what way exactly? Perhaps, you are confused by my reference to the Cameroonian team of 1990. That reference was made only to emphasize that statistics are ultimately not very important in my assessment of a team’s quality :!:


Cheers.

The 94 Cameroon team was the one that collected six of the best from Russia courtesy of Oleg Salenko who scored virtually all his golden boot winning goals in that one match against Cameroon. The 90 Cameroon team only collected four against Russia.

I think that's the point scholl was trying to make.

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theYemster
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Orion wrote:
Africa's best teams ever at the World Cup are:
1. Ghana 2010
2. Senegal 2002
3. Cameroon 1990
4. Nigeria 1994
5. Algeria 1982

Overall, if we also factor in the team's performance at the AFCON then the SE 1994 team ranks higher IMO:
1. Cameroon 1990 (1988 AFCON win)
2. Nigeria 1994 (1994 AFCON win)
3. Ghana 2010 (2010 AFCON final)
4. Senegal 2002 (2002 AFCON final)
5. Algeria 1982 (1980 AFCON final)

That should be (1990 AFCON group stage)

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Bigpokey24
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:35 pm 
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SE 2013 is up there, they won AFCOn and made the 2nd round in Brazil

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1naija
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!

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scholl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:45 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!


:clap: :agree: The 1994 team made it to the second round. That achievement has been matched 2 more times. That’s mediocre.
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theYemster
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!

How many Brazil football forums do you visit? :?

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1naija
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:06 pm 
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theYemster wrote:
1naija wrote:
Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!

How many Brazil football forums do you visit? :?


I work with 3 avid soccer fans and not once have I heard them say anything about their 1994 trophy. I am assuming you are asking because you visit many Brazil football forums and you hear them relish in their 1994 WC championship.

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kalani JR
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:03 pm 
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theYemster wrote:
1naija wrote:
Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!

How many Brazil football forums do you visit? :?


Are you more likely to hear Brazilians talk about the 1994 or 2002 trophies or their next one?
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theYemster
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:17 pm 
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1naija wrote:
theYemster wrote:
1naija wrote:
Can we just move on? Brazil are not there still celebrating any of their old world cups trophies!

How many Brazil football forums do you visit? :?


I work with 3 avid soccer fans and not once have I heard them say anything about their 1994 trophy. I am assuming you are asking because you visit many Brazil football forums and you hear them relish in their 1994 WC championship.

I'm asking because I'm curious.

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