There is no Improvement

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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by danfo driver »

Tobi17 wrote:Well until Rohr's contract ends, there's little or nothing you and I can do except he gets sacked(which is unlikely). Much to his credit, he has discovered a crop - almost a generation of young and very talented players who are in their prime to hit that plateau of a golden generation... And I agree with you that having Rohr as coach, is the lowest glass ceiling for us right now if we hope to win trophies and compete among the best( it's not too unrealistic to set such standards for ourselves)... but he's got only one year left on his contract I believe, so we might as well just hang in there till he's gone for good... and the next available "world class" coach/manager comes along.
The deepest insult to a black man is the insult received from other black men! Thats how they have been teaching our parents, us and our children that Mungo Park discovered River Niger. After all, the natives who lived there closed their eyes when they walked past the river.

Please, name all the players Rohr discovered. Just from yesterday:

Uzoho - Rohr discovered him?
Ola Aina - Rohr discovered him?
Ekong - ROhr discovered him?
Semi - ROhr discovered him?
Collins -
Etebo - Rohr discovered him?
Aribo -
Iwobi - ROhr discovered him?
Chukwueze - ROhr discovered him?
Samuel Kalu - Rohr discovered him?
Osimehn - Rohr discovered him?
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

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Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:Well until Rohr's contract ends, there's little or nothing you and I can do except he gets sacked(which is unlikely). Much to his credit, he has discovered a crop - almost a generation of young and very talented players who are in their prime to hit that plateau of a golden generation... And I agree with you that having Rohr as coach, is the lowest glass ceiling for us right now if we hope to win trophies and compete among the best( it's not too unrealistic to set such standards for ourselves)... but he's got only one year left on his contract I believe, so we might as well just hang in there till he's gone for good... and the next available "world class" coach/manager comes along.
The deepest insult to a black man is the insult received from other black men! Thats how they have been teaching our parents, us and our children that Mungo Park discovered River Niger. After all, the natives who lived there closed their eyes when they walked past the river.

Please, name all the players Rohr discovered. Just from yesterday:

Uzoho - Rohr discovered him?
Ola Aina - Rohr discovered him?
Ekong - ROhr discovered him?
Semi - ROhr discovered him?
Collins -
Etebo - Rohr discovered him?
Aribo -
Iwobi - ROhr discovered him?
Chukwueze - ROhr discovered him?
Samuel Kalu - Rohr discovered him?
Osimehn - Rohr discovered him?
Ok discovered wasn't the right word to use, I give you that... Maybe "giving the young players a chance to prove their quality" was a better and more ideal expression... given the history of our local coaches and their penchant for dubious agent-inducing player selections (something we all invariably complained about)... you can't help but give Rohr some credit for always picking a team 80% of Nigerian fans for once have no problem with.
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
Bro I challenge you to pull up THE STATS!!! We had more shots on goal than they did , I know the game I watched, Ukraine had few chances thanks to our terrible defensive lapses, but we created FAR GILT EDGED goal scoring opportunities especially in the first half where we would save for selfishness on the part of our forwards, have buried them by at least 5 goals!! Bros wetin you dey yarn sef? I no be Rohr fan and still believe he's $#%, but as for yesterday's game... we were the better team my a margin or two. They edged us in possession, but we had the better attacking moments. Even their second goal was very dubious!!
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by john12 »

even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related. all these crooks are bent on disparaging the man character for non-football reasons and we must fight against them. these criminals are asking for Rohr termination but you ask who should replace him? (MUTE) NO replacement in your mind but you want him terminated. To me, the most impressive thing about rohr is INTEGRITY. also, his penchant for selecting young talented players has been a plus. Rohr era signifies another period of selecting "merited" players. there's no more "hey you" or "agent ridden" Selection
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by danfo driver »

Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
Bro I challenge you to pull up THE STATS!!! We had more shots on goal than they did , I know the game I watched, Ukraine had few chances thanks to our terrible defensive lapses, but we created FAR GILT EDGED goal scoring opportunities especially in the first half where we would save for selfishness on the part of our forwards, have buried them by at least 5 goals!! Bros wetin you dey yarn sef? I no be Rohr fan and still believe he's $#%, but as for yesterday's game... we were the better team my a margin or two. They edged us in possession, but we had the better attacking moments. Even their second goal was very dubious!!
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by john12 »

its Rohr fault that players are selfish and were failing to pass the ball to an open net. its Rohr fault that the referee awarded a clear handball goal. (2nd goal) its rohr fault that 80 nigerians were caught by FBI for fraud. its rohr fault that Buhari won the presidential candidate. yes, we know its rohr FAULT but the beauty of it is that CRIMINALS cannot do anything about it. when the hate dosen't work, Lies are the next option. when that dosen't work, what's the next option??
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Re: There is no Improvement

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john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by john12 »



Criminals will say it’s only a meaningless friendly but the same principles wouldn’t apply to Ukraine match. Delusional grandeur!
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by john12 »

We won yesterday game. That 2nd goal was a clear “HANDBALL” but Criminals hatred for ROhR wouldn’t allow them to say the truth
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Re: There is no Improvement

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danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
Bro I challenge you to pull up THE STATS!!! We had more shots on goal than they did , I know the game I watched, Ukraine had few chances thanks to our terrible defensive lapses, but we created FAR GILT EDGED goal scoring opportunities especially in the first half where we would save for selfishness on the part of our forwards, have buried them by at least 5 goals!! Bros wetin you dey yarn sef? I no be Rohr fan and still believe he's $#%, but as for yesterday's game... we were the better team my a margin or two. They edged us in possession, but we had the better attacking moments. Even their second goal was very dubious!!
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
I dared you to shut me up with STATS but that's all you got in your arsenal? OK ooo :D :taunt:
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by danfo driver »

Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
Bro I challenge you to pull up THE STATS!!! We had more shots on goal than they did , I know the game I watched, Ukraine had few chances thanks to our terrible defensive lapses, but we created FAR GILT EDGED goal scoring opportunities especially in the first half where we would save for selfishness on the part of our forwards, have buried them by at least 5 goals!! Bros wetin you dey yarn sef? I no be Rohr fan and still believe he's $#%, but as for yesterday's game... we were the better team my a margin or two. They edged us in possession, but we had the better attacking moments. Even their second goal was very dubious!!
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
I dared you to shut me up with STATS but that's all you got in your arsenal? OK ooo :D :taunt:
Bro, I have better things to do. Whether you shut up or not, my bank account will remain the same. You just said that we were the better team. I had to laugh and move on. It is clear we watched different games. take care, bro!
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by danfo driver »

Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
It wasnt basic defending. it was a system breakdown everytime we were under attack.

Again, did you watch the same game? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
blueangel wrote:Lets look at Ukraine,

Were they better organised ?

Their defense was very porous.

If our players were not selfish in the Ukraine 18 yard box, or the point blank header was scored, Ukraine fans for burn that stadium down with the 5-0 in the first half dem for collect from our Super Eagles.

It appears we were sitting back and letting them come to us.

Ukraine definitely pass the ball brilliantly when attacking but we definitely were not out coached.

The biggest problem as usual is timely substitution by Rohr.
Also why him no play all those players on the bench like Ukraine did ?
On fair balance of the game, the result would have been Nigeria 5 vs Ukraine 2 cause we created far better chances but for the selfishness of our forwards, especially Chukwueze.
We clearly were watching two different games, bro.

Have you forgotten the chance Ukraine had where 3 of their players missed an open net?

Have you forgotten the multiple one-on-one chances that Uzoho had to save?

Have you forgotten the multiple times that Ola Aina prostrated on the floor, allowing the Ukrainians to shoot at Uzoho, as if he was visiting his in-laws for the first time?

have you forgotten the first 2 times, Etebo willingly gave the ball to the opponent right in front of the 18 yard box and we were saved by last-ditch tackles?

:lol: :lol: Bro, e be like sey you no too watch the game.
Bro I challenge you to pull up THE STATS!!! We had more shots on goal than they did , I know the game I watched, Ukraine had few chances thanks to our terrible defensive lapses, but we created FAR GILT EDGED goal scoring opportunities especially in the first half where we would save for selfishness on the part of our forwards, have buried them by at least 5 goals!! Bros wetin you dey yarn sef? I no be Rohr fan and still believe he's $#%, but as for yesterday's game... we were the better team my a margin or two. They edged us in possession, but we had the better attacking moments. Even their second goal was very dubious!!
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
I dared you to shut me up with STATS but that's all you got in your arsenal? OK ooo :D :taunt:
B :rotf: ro, I have better things to do. Whether you shut up or not, my bank account will remain the same. You just said that we were the better team. I had to laugh and move on. It is clear we watched different games. take care, bro!
Typical :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by john12 »

How can someone watch yesterday game and say Ukraine was better? As in, super eagles could had finished that game in the first 30 minutes
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by cchinukw »

Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
Is he a care taker? Which is why I continue to question why his contract has not been terminated. :roll:
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

john12 wrote:How can someone watch yesterday game and say Ukraine was better? As in, super eagles could had finished that game in the first 30 minutes
I'm not even a Rohr fan in the least sense, yet I'm impartial enough at least judging from the game I WATCHED that we should have buried Ukraine long before the second half even commenced, I mean even all the match highlights and stats showed SE as the better attacking team...
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by danfo driver »

cchinukw wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
Is he a care taker? :roll:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Yes na! Problem existed long before he came. So, its not his job to fix it! Odiegwu! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

cchinukw wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
Is he a care taker? Which is why I continue to question why his contract has not been terminated. :roll:
And what happens after Rohrs contract ends, and the prevailing issues continue with the next coach... will you transfer your bitterness to the next coach, or get a bit more realistic at last?
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by cchinukw »

Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
Is he a care taker? Which is why I continue to question why his contract has not been terminated. :roll:
And what happens after Rohrs contract ends, and the prevailing issues continue with the next coach... will you transfer your bitterness to the next coach, or get a bit more realistic at last?
We need a top foreign coach. Not these journey men.

At the end of Rohr's tenure, you can be certain that the only party with any benefit from this relationship will be Rohr.

There will be nothing of note. I even doubt we would have learnt anything of note.
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Bigpokey24 »

since **** started coaching the SE, not once have i ever seen us let in so many goals or surrender possession to the opponents... We play like minnows
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Re: There is no Improvement

Post by Tobi17 »

cchinukw wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
cchinukw wrote:
john12 wrote:even if rohr likes, let him defeat argentina 10-0, they will say it should had been "11 - 0" They will never give rohr credit for anything and it isn't football related.
At least make him defeat na?

Let him do it. I am pleading to Rohr. All we are saying is defeat Argentina in your tenure as coach. Defeat top opposition.

How difficult is it? Yesterday is a case in point. We should have won the game yesterday convincingly. Even that is beyond Herr Gernot Rohr. That was no surprise :roll:
Well it's not Rohrs fault that your defenders couldn't do the basic job of defending... it's not like these problems haven't existed long before Rohr became coach!
Is he a care taker? Which is why I continue to question why his contract has not been terminated. :roll:
And what happens after Rohrs contract ends, and the prevailing issues continue with the next coach... will you transfer your bitterness to the next coach, or get a bit more realistic at last?
We need a top foreign coach. Not these journey men.

At the end of Rohr's tenure, you can be certain that the only party with any benefit from this relationship will be Rohr.

There will be nothing of note. I even doubt we would have learnt anything of note.
I hope you will be able to pay that top foreign coach on time, make sure you give him the enabling factors and environment for him to thrive, provide all the facilities he needs to excel, be patient when the gong gets rough etc... if you are amble to fulfill those requisites as a fan... then maybe your perspective and expectations will get better.

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