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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:37 am 
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gapped wrote:
Totally agree with this writers position and the article. This team to me is the worst coached Nigeria under 17 team in modern memory. As much as folks will like to disagree, soon, this team will be exposed as a team that is not really a team, that lacks cohesive approach to playing as a team, tactically inept, technically underserved and underperforming, and above all, relies more on individual brilliance to succeed. Soon, a team will figure out how to shut down the aces and then what? Creativity is not really there and no discernable pattern of play can be deduced from the disjointed game approach that they have exhibited.

My son played and won both state and regional championships in the US under 17, and I can tell you that the games I have seen his team play in that level is far superior to what I'm seeing in a national team level and that to me is disappointing and unacceptable.

USA 0 vs NED 4.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The alleged "level of superiority" apparently did not reach the national team. SMH
>

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:58 am 
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txj wrote:
Both abroad and at home. You listed both for Nigerian players. And note that the MLS is a higher standard than our NPFL.

On your second point, at the U17 level, individual qualities generally predominate, esp physical advantage which is why we (African countries) do well at this level. We have won on the basis of superior individual qualities.

It's EASY for players to play in their own HOME countries (regardless of what you think the quality of each nation's league is), so that's not a particularly useful measure.

Furthermore, virtually all US U17 players are already on MLS rosters BEFORE they are selected for the US U17 national team, and thus they ending up on MLS clubs is not exactly indicative of 'development'. That would be akin to selecting Eaglets' players from NPFL clubs and then turning around to tout their supposed 'development' when they return to (or end up in other) NPFL clubs.

Finally, it's easier for US players to play in Europe and the UK, not least because the same age restrictions that apply to African youth players do not apply to them (such as the US-born Nigerian-ancestry US U17 WC GK Odunze who recently moved from Canada to Leicester City), so even that criteria is also NOT a particularly useful criteria for comparison.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
txj wrote:
Both abroad and at home. You listed both for Nigerian players. And note that the MLS is a higher standard than our NPFL.

On your second point, at the U17 level, individual qualities generally predominate, esp physical advantage which is why we (African countries) do well at this level. We have won on the basis of superior individual qualities.

It's EASY for players to play in their own HOME countries (regardless of what you think the quality of each nation's league is), so that's not a particularly useful measure.

Furthermore, virtually all US U17 players are already on MLS rosters BEFORE they are selected for the US U17 national team, and thus they ending up on MLS clubs is not exactly indicative of 'development'. That would be akin to selecting Eaglets' players from NPFL clubs and then turning around to tout their supposed 'development' when they return to (or end up in other) NPFL clubs.

Finally, it's easier for US players to play in Europe and the UK, not least because the same age restrictions that apply to African youth players do not apply to them (such as the US-born Nigerian-ancestry US U17 WC GK Odunze who recently moved from Canada to Leicester City), so even that criteria is also NOT a particularly useful criteria for comparison.



You are the one who included LOBI in your list of clubs. The key measure is breakthrough in Europe as I already indicated.
And yes, breakthrough to the MLS given its current standard (less than Europe but greater than the NPFL) is indicative of 'development'...That is why Tyler Adams for instance is able to move from club academy to first team NYCFC and first team RB Leipzig.

Secondly, the age restriction on international transfers is universal.

Thirdly, it ultimately comes down to the quality of the player starting out, irrespective of origin. For instance, given the rigor of training of GKs in the US, it is more than likely that a US GK prospect will be chosen over his Nigerian counterpart 10 times out 10!

That is the key point I'm trying to make to you. Any way you look at it, it comes down to quality, even while recognizing the challenges African players typically have.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
gapped wrote:
Totally agree with this writers position and the article. This team to me is the worst coached Nigeria under 17 team in modern memory. As much as folks will like to disagree, soon, this team will be exposed as a team that is not really a team, that lacks cohesive approach to playing as a team, tactically inept, technically underserved and underperforming, and above all, relies more on individual brilliance to succeed. Soon, a team will figure out how to shut down the aces and then what? Creativity is not really there and no discernable pattern of play can be deduced from the disjointed game approach that they have exhibited.

My son played and won both state and regional championships in the US under 17, and I can tell you that the games I have seen his team play in that level is far superior to what I'm seeing in a national team level and that to me is disappointing and unacceptable.

USA 0 vs NED 4.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The alleged "level of superiority" apparently did not reach the national team. SMH
>


You know it is quite possible that these same US players will breakthrough in greater numbers than their Nigerian counterparts.

It seems strange to me reducing assessment at this level simply to scores.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:06 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
gapped wrote:
Totally agree with this writers position and the article. This team to me is the worst coached Nigeria under 17 team in modern memory. As much as folks will like to disagree, soon, this team will be exposed as a team that is not really a team, that lacks cohesive approach to playing as a team, tactically inept, technically underserved and underperforming, and above all, relies more on individual brilliance to succeed. Soon, a team will figure out how to shut down the aces and then what? Creativity is not really there and no discernable pattern of play can be deduced from the disjointed game approach that they have exhibited.

My son played and won both state and regional championships in the US under 17, and I can tell you that the games I have seen his team play in that level is far superior to what I'm seeing in a national team level and that to me is disappointing and unacceptable.

USA 0 vs NED 4.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

The alleged "level of superiority" apparently did not reach the national team. SMH
>

When the standard is low everything looks smooth but when you are playing the best youth around the world it’s not the same as playing Arizona minors so you’ll not always going to find it easy!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:59 pm 
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txj wrote:
You know it is quite possible that these same US players will breakthrough in greater numbers than their Nigerian counterparts.

It seems strange to me reducing assessment at this level simply to scores.

It’s also quite possible that the Nigerian players will breakthrough in greater numbers than their US counterparts... :lol:

Nonetheless, dude was talking about their alleged “level of superiority” TODAY...
And rational folk prefer to use a measurable yardstick such as results/performance in the same competition.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:26 pm 
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txj wrote:
You are the one who included LOBI in your list of clubs. The key measure is breakthrough in Europe as I already indicated.
And yes, breakthrough to the MLS given its current standard (less than Europe but greater than the NPFL) is indicative of 'development'...That is why Tyler Adams for instance is able to move from club academy to first team NYCFC and first team RB Leipzig.

Secondly, the age restriction on international transfers is universal.

Thirdly, it ultimately comes down to the quality of the player starting out, irrespective of origin. For instance, given the rigor of training of GKs in the US, it is more than likely that a US GK prospect will be chosen over his Nigerian counterpart 10 times out 10!

That is the key point I'm trying to make to you. Any way you look at it, it comes down to quality, even while recognizing the challenges African players typically have.

It’s NOT....
Because they are ALREADY at MLS clubs.

The US GK move illustrates the limited opportunities for NIGERIAN youth players outside of the youth NTs to transit to foreign clubs...
Even if the GK at Diamond Academy or Enyimba Feeders shows world-class quality, Leicester (or any foreign club) is unlikely to know that.

Meanwhile, Tyler Adams debuted for RB Leipzig at 4 years after he played U17 (and 2 years after his full US NT debut) at 20...
In contrast, Kelechi Iheanacho debuted for Manchester City (a much better club) barely 2 years after playing for Nigeria U17 at 19.

The circumstances of individual players are unique...
If it was not, every US (or Nigerian) youth player would end up as Adams (or Iheanacho).

Nonetheless, as a general statement of OBJECTIVE FACT (not SUBJECTIVE opinion)...
Nigeria has done as well as most nations (if not better) in transitioning youth NT players to the senior NT - that’s measurable development!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:57 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
txj wrote:
You are the one who included LOBI in your list of clubs. The key measure is breakthrough in Europe as I already indicated.
And yes, breakthrough to the MLS given its current standard (less than Europe but greater than the NPFL) is indicative of 'development'...That is why Tyler Adams for instance is able to move from club academy to first team NYCFC and first team RB Leipzig.

Secondly, the age restriction on international transfers is universal.

Thirdly, it ultimately comes down to the quality of the player starting out, irrespective of origin. For instance, given the rigor of training of GKs in the US, it is more than likely that a US GK prospect will be chosen over his Nigerian counterpart 10 times out 10!

That is the key point I'm trying to make to you. Any way you look at it, it comes down to quality, even while recognizing the challenges African players typically have.

It’s NOT....
Because they are ALREADY at MLS clubs.

It takes development to progress from the academy to first team.

The US GK move illustrates the limited opportunities for NIGERIAN youth players outside of the youth NTs to transit to foreign clubs...
Even if the GK at Diamond Academy or Enyimba Feeders shows world-class quality, Leicester (or any foreign club) is unlikely to know that.

The evidence is that if a player has real quality, he will get an opportunity. So it always comes down to quality.

Meanwhile, Tyler Adams debuted for RB Leipzig at 4 years after he played U17 (and 2 years after his full US NT debut) at 20...
In contrast, Kelechi Iheanacho debuted for Manchester City (a much better club) barely 2 years after playing for Nigeria U17 at 19.

You miss the point, which is that Adams is moving straight from the MLS to being a starter at RB Leipzig. It is indicative of the quality of his development both at the academy level and the MLS. Iheanacho, questionable age, quality and all, has had to go thru the City academy and today cannot get a start at Leicester, where Adams took one month to become a regular starter at Leipzig.



The circumstances of individual players are unique...
If it was not, every US (or Nigerian) youth player would end up as Adams (or Iheanacho).

Completely agree. But it always comes down to quality. And our standards have steadily declined...

Nonetheless, as a general statement of OBJECTIVE FACT (not SUBJECTIVE opinion)...
Nigeria has done as well as most nations (if not better) in transitioning youth NT players to the senior NT - that’s measurable development!

The point is that we should be doing better than we currently are. Because most of these nations are not as dominant as we are at this level, which suggests we should be transitioning much higher numbers, first and foremost, to senior football.

Many of these countries are transitioning more to senior football, while simultaneously having other outlets besides the FIFA U17 tournament. So in effect it does not say much that 'Nigeria has done as well as most nations (if not better)'...

We could be doing much better in this area if we paid attention to properly developing the enormous talent we have. At the risk of sounding repetitive, that is the point here.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:05 am 
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txj wrote:
The point is that we should be doing better than we currently are. Because most of these nations are not as dominant as we are at this level, which suggests we should be transitioning much higher numbers, first and foremost, to senior football.

Many of these countries are transitioning more to senior football, while simultaneously having other outlets besides the FIFA U17 tournament. So in effect it does not say much that 'Nigeria has done as well as most nations (if not better)'...

We could be doing much better in this area if we paid attention to properly developing the enormous talent we have. At the risk of sounding repetitive, that is the point here.


Txj, you have made two rather nebulous and contradictory claims. First, you say that other countries are transitioning more under 17s to senior football than we are then secondly, you assert that they have other outlets for football development besides the u17. If we are to believe that we are not transitioning enough under 17s to senior football then the valid question would be, Where do our senior players come from, if not the under 17? If your assertion is correct, it must mean that, contrary to your claim, Nigeria must have alternative sources for transitioning our young players into the senior team. You need to think more carefully about what you say before you say it because in this case, it doesn’t make any sense :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 am 
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txj wrote:
It takes development to progress from the academy to first team.

No, several of them are PRESENTLY in MLS first-teams...
Such as Bello (whom I kept tabs on because of the Nigerian connection), Yow, Busio and several others.

The evidence is that if a player has real quality, he will get an opportunity. So it always comes down to quality.

Nope. It’s one thing to have “quality” but the most crucial thing is for the relevant persons to get to SEE such quality...
That’s why youth NTs principally provide the best opportunities for Nigerian youth players because no EPL scouts are coming to Uyo or Aba.

You miss the point, which is that Adams is moving straight from the MLS to being a starter at RB Leipzig. It is indicative of the quality of his development both at the academy level and the MLS. Iheanacho, questionable age, quality and all, has had to go thru the City academy and today cannot get a start at Leicester, where Adams took one month to become a regular starter at Leipzig.

Tyler Adams was a FULL SENIOR INTERNATIONAL when he moved to RB Leipzig in 2019, having made his senior debut in 2017...
It would be heretical to expect a 20-year-old full senior US international to go and join the Academy ranks at Leipzig (unlike Iheanacho).

Anyway, not sure we are having an entirely honest dialogue, because you’ve already implied age-fraud for any Nigerian successes...
Nonetheless, that Nigerian youth players with significantly fewer opportunities still end up with similar (or better) success is laudable!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
txj wrote:
It takes development to progress from the academy to first team.

No, several of them are PRESENTLY in MLS first-teams...
Such as Bello (whom I kept tabs on because of the Nigerian connection), Yow, Busio and several others.

The evidence is that if a player has real quality, he will get an opportunity. So it always comes down to quality.

Nope. It’s one thing to have “quality” but the most crucial thing is for the relevant persons to get to SEE such quality...
That’s why youth NTs principally provide the best opportunities for Nigerian youth players because no EPL scouts are coming to Uyo or Aba.

You miss the point, which is that Adams is moving straight from the MLS to being a starter at RB Leipzig. It is indicative of the quality of his development both at the academy level and the MLS. Iheanacho, questionable age, quality and all, has had to go thru the City academy and today cannot get a start at Leicester, where Adams took one month to become a regular starter at Leipzig.

Tyler Adams was a FULL SENIOR INTERNATIONAL when he moved to RB Leipzig in 2019, having made his senior debut in 2017...
It would be heretical to expect a 20-year-old full senior US international to go and join the Academy ranks at Leipzig (unlike Iheanacho).

Anyway, not sure we are having an entirely honest dialogue, because you’ve already implied age-fraud for any Nigerian successes...
Nonetheless, that Nigerian youth players with significantly fewer opportunities still end up with similar (or better) success is laudable!



1. They had to first play in the academy before making it to the MLS first team; no? It takes progress to go from the Academy to the MLS. Bello had to progress from the Atlanta academy to the first team.

2. We have local scouts/agents. You even have agents coming from Europe to watch the Mock Nations Cup and similar tourneys...If a player has quality he will be seen.

But you are simply echoing my point about Nigerians being largely limited to the NT pathway for breaking into Europe.

Which brings us back to my main point about our comparatively low numbers of successful transition of players to top senior level football, relative to our dominance at this level and compared to other countries who have additional pathways ourside the youth NTs.

3. Again you miss the point about Adams. His ability to transition first from the academy to the MLS, and from thence straight to a starting place at RB Leipzig is indicative of both his quality and the quality of the development of players at both the US soccer academies and the MLS. The last time a Nigerian player went straight to a starting place in a top team from the domestic game was as far back as George Finidi.

4. Nigeria's dominance at this level has been based on age fraud. That is not an opinion but a well documented fact. Our dominance is also based on talent and superior physical strength.

What has been lacking and remains lacking is the right development of players for the modern game, that would allow them maximize their abilities and compete for places in Europe at the level THEIR TALENT DESERVES.

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:00 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
aruako1 wrote:
Several comments. A few insults. Hardly any attempt to challenge the points he made. He us trying to say that the reliance on physical strength is not sustainable and uses the struggles of the 2013 team as an example. I do not agree with him but I am not sure how that stance invites all the insults he has received on thos thread.


The point is that he didn’t make any useful points and neglected to include relevant facts in his analysis, such as the fact that Hungary’s goals were somewhat fortuitous and that Ecuador is quite capable of putting 4 goals past the best u17 teams in the world, like they did against Argentina. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being physically fit or with being capable of come backs. Those are great qualities to have in a team. The only point he really made is that he doesn’t think much of Coach Manu Garba, something that’s totally irrelevant imho :!:


Cheers.


At least you have actually criticised the article properly. I think he was trying to point out that physical fitness or dominance becomes less relevant as footballers progress into more senior teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
aruako1 wrote:
Several comments. A few insults. Hardly any attempt to challenge the points he made. He us trying to say that the reliance on physical strength is not sustainable and uses the struggles of the 2013 team as an example. I do not agree with him but I am not sure how that stance invites all the insults he has received on thos thread.

look here if people choose to reply to a pathetic article with insults exposing the poor critical thinking skills of the worthless article written by some hungry clueless junk journalist, i see nothing wrong with it....T

There are consequences and repercussions for spitting out rubbish... if you cannot stand the heat then get the heck out of the kitchen.... the internet is free...be ready to receive harsh response if ones comments , articles etc makes no sense. I do not get people who talk rubbish and when they get hit back, they get all sensitive, or we get cry cry folks whining about response etc, life is not a bed of roses.......we have many on this forum example pajimoh etc ..sensitivity gets you no where..learn to grow a thick skin.... if not then don't write junk


So you still did not manage to dispute any point in the article?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:40 pm 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
The point is that we should be doing better than we currently are. Because most of these nations are not as dominant as we are at this level, which suggests we should be transitioning much higher numbers, first and foremost, to senior football.

Many of these countries are transitioning more to senior football, while simultaneously having other outlets besides the FIFA U17 tournament. So in effect it does not say much that 'Nigeria has done as well as most nations (if not better)'...

We could be doing much better in this area if we paid attention to properly developing the enormous talent we have. At the risk of sounding repetitive, that is the point here.


Txj, you have made two rather nebulous and contradictory claims. First, you say that other countries are transitioning more under 17s to senior football than we are then secondly, you assert that they have other outlets for football development besides the u17. If we are to believe that we are not transitioning enough under 17s to senior football then the valid question would be, Where do our senior players come from, if not the under 17? If your assertion is correct, it must mean that, contrary to your claim, Nigeria must have alternative sources for transitioning our young players into the senior team. You need to think more carefully about what you say before you say it because in this case, it doesn’t make any sense :!:


Cheers.


Its a case of poor comprehension or failure to follow the progression of the debate.

Remember the issue here is about quality/development of young players. My point is that the poor development of our young players is constraining our ability to transition players to senior levels in Europe, at a rate to MATCH OUR DOMINANCE at the U17 level.

Made worse by the fact that other countries have alternative avenues for getting young players to Europe at MUCH HIGHER levels than we do.

So its not that we do not have alternative avenues, but that the lack of proper development is limiting those numbers or sending them to locations where they are pretty much lost to us...

It always comes down to quality of development...

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:36 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
What a daft article

'Daft?' No be your friend write-am?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:22 am 
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aruako1 wrote:
At least you have actually criticised the article properly. I think he was trying to point out that physical fitness or dominance becomes less relevant as footballers progress into more senior teams.

First, physical fitness will always be of CRUCIAL relevance in football...
Whether such relevance is "less" or "more" is not a one-size-fit-all phenomena (and quite subjective).

Mere physical fitness or "dominance" was NOT the reason that this team was winning games. Granted it was a key factor in their being able to sustain a high intensity THROUGHOUT 90+ minutes but that is NOT enough by itself. Nonetheless, this characteristic is NOT a flaw (or "deeper issue") but rather a commendable trait (for which considerable CREDIT should go to the coaches). Nevertheless, even that is not enough without the MENTAL STRENGTH, FORTITUDE, SELF-WILL and DISCIPLINE to keep at it until overcoming adversity. But in life there will always be glass half-empty pessimists.

Solace's piece (and many of the comments in support thereof) is the metaphorical equivalent of the mindset of most Nigerians preceding the calamitous SE vs Denmark 1-4 shellacking at the France 1998 WC. These folks are busy fixated over a speculative future in derogation of the immediate task at hand. Thus some people are busy criticizing the team and its coaches about conjectural and speculative future shortcomings while neglecting what the youngsters PRESENTLY require to be successful. Yet, if they 'fail' today there's unlikely to be a meaningful future for most of them.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:53 am 
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txj wrote:
They had to first play in the academy before making it to the MLS first team; no? It takes progress to go from the Academy to the MLS. Bello had to progress from the Atlanta academy to the first team.

2. We have local scouts/agents. You even have agents coming from Europe to watch the Mock Nations Cup and similar tourneys...If a player has quality he will be seen.

But you are simply echoing my point about Nigerians being largely limited to the NT pathway for breaking into Europe.

Which brings us back to my main point about our comparatively low numbers of successful transition of players to top senior level football, relative to our dominance at this level and compared to other countries who have additional pathways ourside the youth NTs.

3. Again you miss the point about Adams. His ability to transition first from the academy to the MLS, and from thence straight to a starting place at RB Leipzig is indicative of both his quality and the quality of the development of players at both the US soccer academies and the MLS. The last time a Nigerian player went straight to a starting place in a top team from the domestic game was as far back as George Finidi.

4. Nigeria's dominance at this level has been based on age fraud. That is not an opinion but a well documented fact. Our dominance is also based on talent and superior physical strength.

What has been lacking and remains lacking is the right development of players for the modern game, that would allow them maximize their abilities and compete for places in Europe at the level THEIR TALENT DESERVES.

No different from the likes of Stanley Okoro going from Enyimba's feeder team (or some other local Nigerian academy) to Enyimba's (or any other NPFL) senior team. When Nigeria allowed players at NPFL and NNL league clubs play for the U17 Eaglets, these sorts "development" were common place.

Meanwhile, you keep citing Tyler Adams, who was already a full SENIOR US international before securing a transfer to Europe, but if he was not a relative OUTLIER how come all the other players who played with (as well as before and after) him in the US youth system did not achieve similar 'success'?

Nonetheless, how is his case SUBSTANTIVELY any different from that of (for example) Wilfred Ndidi, who went from the Nigerian youth NT system straight into the first-term of a Belgian league club (which is at least equivalent to the MLS) "and from thence straight to a starting place at" Leicester?!

Anyway, I believe we have to agree to disagree here, given your continued insistence that kids in Agege, Uyo, Damaturu, etc., have SAME access to opportunities to play in Europe as US kids.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:08 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
txj wrote:
They had to first play in the academy before making it to the MLS first team; no? It takes progress to go from the Academy to the MLS. Bello had to progress from the Atlanta academy to the first team.

2. We have local scouts/agents. You even have agents coming from Europe to watch the Mock Nations Cup and similar tourneys...If a player has quality he will be seen.

But you are simply echoing my point about Nigerians being largely limited to the NT pathway for breaking into Europe.

Which brings us back to my main point about our comparatively low numbers of successful transition of players to top senior level football, relative to our dominance at this level and compared to other countries who have additional pathways ourside the youth NTs.

3. Again you miss the point about Adams. His ability to transition first from the academy to the MLS, and from thence straight to a starting place at RB Leipzig is indicative of both his quality and the quality of the development of players at both the US soccer academies and the MLS. The last time a Nigerian player went straight to a starting place in a top team from the domestic game was as far back as George Finidi.

4. Nigeria's dominance at this level has been based on age fraud. That is not an opinion but a well documented fact. Our dominance is also based on talent and superior physical strength.

What has been lacking and remains lacking is the right development of players for the modern game, that would allow them maximize their abilities and compete for places in Europe at the level THEIR TALENT DESERVES.

No different from the likes of Stanley Okoro going from Enyimba's feeder team (or some other local Nigerian academy) to Enyimba's (or any other NPFL) senior team. When Nigeria allowed players at NPFL and NNL league clubs play for the U17 Eaglets, these sorts "development" were common place.

Meanwhile, you keep citing Tyler Adams, who was already a full SENIOR US international before securing a transfer to Europe, but if he was not a relative OUTLIER how come all the other players who played with (as well as before and after) him in the US youth system did not achieve similar 'success'?

Nonetheless, how is his case SUBSTANTIVELY any different from that of (for example) Wilfred Ndidi, who went from the Nigerian youth NT system straight into the first-term of a Belgian league club (which is at least equivalent to the MLS) "and from thence straight to a starting place at" Leicester?!

Anyway, I believe we have to agree to disagree here, given your continued insistence that kids in Agege, Uyo, Damaturu, etc., have SAME access to opportunities to play in Europe as US kids.



1. Really, Stanley Okoro? You've gotta be kidding me!!! Stanley was an adult playing with his peers in the NPFL...

2. Again I'm using Tyler to show you how quality development of young players work. And I am well aware of Ndidi's case, as well as the reviews of his coaches in Belgium on his arrival. But yes, it is quite similar, but also an outlier as it is quite rare for Nigerian players, unlike the US which currently can cite several examples (Weston, Steffen, Wood before them), from a league that is only 20+ years old.

3. Of course kids in Agege, etc do not have the same access! That was never my point. I'm saying the reason they don't have equivalent access comes down to lack of quality in their development.

As you can see, increasingly our U17 players even with worldwide exposure are not getting picked up as before, even as champions and MVP candidates...There's an interesting old report in deportivo about how Barca ran the rule on Kelechi and were not convinced about him and instead chose some Asian kids.

We have the talent. That is what we have proven again and again. But we are not developing them right...All you have to do is watch Manu's current team for 5mins!!!

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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