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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 5:54 pm 
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Hi guys,

I hope everyone's well. As anyone who follows me on Twitter may know, I've embarked this afternoon on attempting to correct an injustice whereby ACL Sports have made the claim that Pinnick & Rohr 'despise locally grown talent'. Obviously, anyone can see how incendiary and damaging this kind of accusation is, and must not be taken lightly.

However, the article contains falsehoods and opinion dressed as fact. For example, ACL claim that at the Afcon 2019 the Super Eagles were swallowed by a "Madagascar team of local Malagasy players", yet no members of their team played for Malagasy clubs whereby our goalkeeper Ikechukwu Ezenwa did play for a Nigerian club.

Even after I pointed the falsehood out, the editors opted to keep the error in the article, refusing to make the correction. Why would they do this? Why are they so keen to peddle lies in order to make their points?

Anyone who knows me is aware of my love for Nigerian soccer and passion for the Super Eagles, but I am so dismayed by this irresponsible coverage and utter contempt for Nigerian readers. How can they simply lie like this and expect people to believe it, indirectly slandering Pinnick and Rohr in the process?

I'd love to see more NPFL players in the team, but this is not the way to do it, is completely damaging, and we are in danger of allowing ourselves to be manipulated by people with agendas. Does anyone care about facts anymore?

You can follow the debate on my Twitter here: https://twitter.com/EddyDove

And read the article here: https://www.aclsports.com/now-that-the- ... re-signed/

Would love people's opinions on this, the community at Cybereagles has always been there for me and I know there are many people here who care deeply about the Nigerian game, NPFL, Super Eagles.

I think ACL should be held accountable for their misrepresentation of fact and their utter disregard for the truth.

Best,


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:05 pm 
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This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.

In fact characterizing the article as full of falsehood is ridiculous by Ed Dove. Ed has no more love than I do for Nigerian football, neither does he know more about Nigerian football than I do. I urge you to read the piece regardless of your perspective about Nigerian football.

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Last edited by Enugu II on Fri May 29, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Eddydove wrote:
However, the article contains falsehoods and opinion dressed as fact. For example, ACL claim that at the Afcon 2019 the Super Eagles were swallowed by a "Madagascar team of local Malagasy players", yet no members of their team played for Malagasy clubs whereby our goalkeeper Ikechukwu Ezenwa did play for a Nigerian club.

Even after I pointed the falsehood out, the editors opted to keep the error in the article, refusing to make the correction. Why would they do this? Why are they so keen to peddle lies in order to make their points?
They have written an 'Editor's note' at the bottom of the article correcting what you pointed out but strangely refused to correct it in the main article.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:12 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Ooops!
I was about to post that it has a strange 'Cybereagles' feel to it and that I wouldn't be surprised to find it was written by someone here on CE.
Then I saw your post above! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Anyway, no yawa. :thumb:

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Ooops!
I was about to post that it has a strange 'Cybereagles' feel to it and that I wouldn't be surprised to find it was written by someone here on CE.
Then I saw your post above! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Anyway, no yawa. :thumb:


Damunk,

The guy sure comes off as if has ultimate knowledge of Nigerian football. That is something that I know he has very little knowledge of, comparatively. Read the piece please if you find the time. Thank you.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Agents are mad that business has been shut down, so they protest, given all manner of nonsensical reasoning, all in an attempt to make money marketing their clients.

God forbid we ever return to the corrupt days of Keshi.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Prof, we all want the same thing and have a passion for the SE.
Those that differ are not necessarily angry, just passionate.

It would be silly of me to disrespect you because of a difference of opinion on the SE and vice versa.
So I don't think he was trying to "discredit" you the author or the central thrust of your piece.
I often feel the same frustration when people post (or completely ignore) half truths and/or inaccuracies just to further their argument.

I've generally found Ed Dove's articles to be fair and accurate, even if I disagree sometimes.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:43 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Prof, we all want the same thing and have a passion for the SE.
Those that differ are not necessarily angry, just passionate.

It would be silly of me to disrespect you because of a difference of opinion on the SE and vice versa.
So I don't think he was trying to "discredit" you the author or the central thrust of your piece.
I often feel the same frustration when people post (or completely ignore) half truths and/or inaccuracies just to further their argument.

I've generally found Ed Dove's articles to be fair and accurate, even if I disagree sometimes.


Damunk,

I understand that and I know where you and others come from. While we disagree on some things, I do know your real love for SE. But this guy, Ed Dove, is certainly not cut from the same cloth in his perspective and intent. That I certainly do not respect.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Prof, we all want the same thing and have a passion for the SE.
Those that differ are not necessarily angry, just passionate.

It would be silly of me to disrespect you because of a difference of opinion on the SE and vice versa.
So I don't think he was trying to "discredit" you the author or the central thrust of your piece.
I often feel the same frustration when people post (or completely ignore) half truths and/or inaccuracies just to further their argument.

I've generally found Ed Dove's articles to be fair and accurate, even if I disagree sometimes.


Damunk,

I understand that and I know where you and others come from. While we disagree on some things, I do know your real love for SE. But this guy, Ed Dove, is certainly not cut from the same cloth in his perspective and intent. That I certainly do not respect.

Is it because he's not Nigerian? Nigeria is a global brand with fans all over the world. Some non Nigerian fans are more up to date and knowledgeable about the SE than some of us die hard fans.
Unlike CE, the wider social media can be extremely harsh as the legendary Segun Odegbami found out when he wrote a piece asking that Rohr's contract should not be renewed.
The vitriolic responses he got shocked me.
I have followed the responses to your article on Twitter and most commentators who are Nigerians, have taken the same stance as Ed Dove.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:41 pm 
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This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This is a piece written by me for ACL.

The piece reflects my view of Rohr's invitations that I have expressed here. I am glad that it is getting a lot of views onTwitter. Ed, apparently angered by the views of the piece, believes that he can use an error since corrected by ACL as a crusade to discredit the central piece of the article. I stand firmly with the tenet of the piece and will not be railroaded by Ed Dove.
Prof, we all want the same thing and have a passion for the SE.
Those that differ are not necessarily angry, just passionate.

It would be silly of me to disrespect you because of a difference of opinion on the SE and vice versa.
So I don't think he was trying to "discredit" you the author or the central thrust of your piece.
I often feel the same frustration when people post (or completely ignore) half truths and/or inaccuracies just to further their argument.

I've generally found Ed Dove's articles to be fair and accurate, even if I disagree sometimes.


Damunk,

I understand that and I know where you and others come from. While we disagree on some things, I do know your real love for SE. But this guy, Ed Dove, is certainly not cut from the same cloth in his perspective and intent. That I certainly do not respect.

Is it because he's not Nigerian? Nigeria is a global brand with fans all over the world. Some non Nigerian fans are more up to date and knowledgeable about the SE than some of us die hard fans.
Unlike CE, the wider social media can be extremely harsh as the legendary Segun Odegbami found out when he wrote a piece asking that Rohr's contract should not be renewed.
The vitriolic responses he got shocked me.
I have followed the responses to your article on Twitter and most commentators who are Nigerians, have taken the same stance as Ed Dove.


Dammy,

It has nothing to do with him not being a Nigerian but due to some comments that he has made. Read the comments and the insinuations. You can have a different view, and many do, but to then attack and make false accusations without support goes beyond even what he claims that I have attempted to do. I have little respect for that to be frank.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:35 pm 
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imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:23 pm 
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fabio wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.



Perhaps because they did not meet a performance level higher than the current members?

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:30 am 
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fabio wrote:
How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Simple answer. They were invited simply to satisfy the critics even when they're not up to the level of the foreign pros and even the bench. As soon as they got foreign contracts, they no longer had the privilege of a local player who could get a call up even when they're not up to the level of the team.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:44 am 
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Eddydove wrote:
Hi guys,

I hope everyone's well. As anyone who follows me on Twitter may know, I've embarked this afternoon on attempting to correct an injustice whereby ACL Sports have made the claim that Pinnick & Rohr 'despise locally grown talent'. Obviously, anyone can see how incendiary and damaging this kind of accusation is, and must not be taken lightly.

However, the article contains falsehoods and opinion dressed as fact. For example, ACL claim that at the Afcon 2019 the Super Eagles were swallowed by a "Madagascar team of local Malagasy players", yet no members of their team played for Malagasy clubs whereby our goalkeeper Ikechukwu Ezenwa did play for a Nigerian club.

Even after I pointed the falsehood out, the editors opted to keep the error in the article, refusing to make the correction. Why would they do this? Why are they so keen to peddle lies in order to make their points?

Anyone who knows me is aware of my love for Nigerian soccer and passion for the Super Eagles, but I am so dismayed by this irresponsible coverage and utter contempt for Nigerian readers. How can they simply lie like this and expect people to believe it, indirectly slandering Pinnick and Rohr in the process?

I'd love to see more NPFL players in the team, but this is not the way to do it, is completely damaging, and we are in danger of allowing ourselves to be manipulated by people with agendas. Does anyone care about facts anymore?

You can follow the debate on my Twitter here: https://twitter.com/EddyDove

And read the article here: https://www.aclsports.com/now-that-the- ... re-signed/

Would love people's opinions on this, the community at Cybereagles has always been there for me and I know there are many people here who care deeply about the Nigerian game, NPFL, Super Eagles.

I think ACL should be held accountable for their misrepresentation of fact and their utter disregard for the truth.

Best,


Falsehoods or falsehood? :sneaky:

After reading the piece I find it rather pedantic that what you took out of the article is the "falsehood" about Madagascar. Does it negate the crux of the article?

Rohr has a willing co-conspirator in Pinnick. Pinnick doesn't care much for the local-based players and the league. So it doesn't matter if the coach prefers using already made players playing overseas. If you scrutinize some of his past selection of some kwekwe foreign-based players you are permitted to ask, what exactly was the benefit of taking such a player who has ZERO upsides as opposed to giving the same opportunity to a local based player? The difference is in commitment and willingness to look. He reminds me of the typical foreigner who comes to Naijaria with an inherent bias. And in turn, surrounded by natives who have a bias that affirms the foreigner's bias.

Pinnick lacks vision just like many Naijarian bureaucrats masquerading as leaders. Here you have an opportunity if not for his inherent inferiority complex to change the narrative of the requirement to feature for the National team. He chose the easier option of pooching and looking for anything with a foreign flavor.

Naijaria lost to Madagascar. We lost to a Malagasy team with all our 'better' players playing in better leagues. Rohr fraudulently claimed that we were going to the World Cup to gain experience. The truth is that HE WENT TO THE WORLD CUP AT OUR EXPENSE TO GAIN EXPERIENCE. He took players to the World Cup he had no plans of using after the World Cup. So what benefit was the experience?

The same Rohr has the penchant of setting us up to play like football minors. He is playing like a football minor while using his preferred foreign-based players. So where is there hope? He, without fail, attributes ALL his losses as 'expected'... expected because the other team according to him is better and is expected to win.

If he is trying to build a team for the future he should have looked inwards as well.

Pinnick gave him the luxury he never afforded local coaches... he accepted him learning on the job. He accepted him choosing his own team. He accepted him not getting out of his group at the World Cup. He accepted him winning a Golden Bronze. He accepted him doing all that despite the best preparation and rancour-free tournaments (World Cup and AFCON) we have had in our history.

The truth is that we have resigned to the fact he will continue on the job. He is best served tweaking his approach when it comes to scouting for talent. Those guys fortunate to be overseas are just fortunate. They are not necessarily better.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:47 am 
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My sincere apologies, i only politely asked for names, not theoretical explanations.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:47 am 
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fabio wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.


He invited 100.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:50 am 
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Cellular wrote:
fabio wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.


He invited 100.

I like the defence of no one made the grade, hence they were not invited again. 10 out of 24 shouldn't be hard and the clubs that signed them in Europe.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:52 am 
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fabio wrote:
Cellular wrote:
fabio wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.


He invited 100.

I like the defence of no one made the grade, hence they were not invited again. 10 out of 24 shouldn't be hard and the clubs that signed them in Europe.


He invited them but never played them. The invite was enough for them to get a foreign contract.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:58 am 
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Orion wrote:
fabio wrote:
How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Simple answer. They were invited simply to satisfy the critics even when they're not up to the level of the foreign pros and even the bench. As soon as they got foreign contracts, they no longer had the privilege of a local player who could get a call up even when they're not up to the level of the team.

Please do you know any of them by name? 9 names would suffice.

Thanking you in advance.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:59 am 
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txj wrote:
fabio wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
This quote from Rohr in his interview with Collin Udoh addresses the issue for me
Quote:
“I’ve invited about 24 local players since I was appointed. Funnily, most of them get a contract in Europe almost immediately.“It’s difficult getting local players who are better than the ones we already have. That’s why CHAN is important”

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/04/eag ... or-eagles/

He has invited about 24 home based players and most (that´s a shortfall of a majority) got contract abroad. How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Giving us 10 names would be a good start.



Perhaps because they did not meet a performance level higher than the current members?


Agreed. Please do you have the names of 8 of these players, can't find them using Google.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:18 am 
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fabio wrote:
Orion wrote:
fabio wrote:
How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Simple answer. They were invited simply to satisfy the critics even when they're not up to the level of the foreign pros and even the bench. As soon as they got foreign contracts, they no longer had the privilege of a local player who could get a call up even when they're not up to the level of the team.

Please do you know any of them by name? 9 names would suffice.

Thanking you in advance.

I simply don't have the time right now to go through all his invitations since 2016 to identify these names but I seriously doubt Rohr will lie about inviting 24 locals as it can be easily fact-checked. He has enough critics and detractors who would relish exposing him if he is lying.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:35 am 
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Orion wrote:
fabio wrote:
Orion wrote:
fabio wrote:
How come they don´t get re-invited back to the SE.

Simple answer. They were invited simply to satisfy the critics even when they're not up to the level of the foreign pros and even the bench. As soon as they got foreign contracts, they no longer had the privilege of a local player who could get a call up even when they're not up to the level of the team.

Please do you know any of them by name? 9 names would suffice.

Thanking you in advance.

I simply don't have the time right now to go through all his invitations since 2016 to identify these names but I seriously doubt Rohr will lie about inviting 24 locals as it can be easily fact-checked. He has enough critics and detractors who would relish exposing him if he is lying.

It's rather strange, you and I can't name 3 - 5 of those players off hand.

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By the grace of God I am a Christian, by my deeds a great sinner.....The Way of a Pilgrim


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