Saka for Nigeria

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Polly
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Polly »

EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:
Mr Shows wrote:Just be happy for the guy whatever his choice... Nigeria will not be worse for wear.. The way we are going, we are probably going to roll out the most exciting team in the next WC. with or without Saka...
I ain't. Shoooot.... Saka would have absolutely no care in the world if he scored or assisted on a goal that knocked us outta the WC.We wait 4 years to get to the WC. I don't care if his family is from Ibadan and they live in Bodija. Screw him. I gives no damns about him unless he's a SE. :thumb:
Emir, I am beginning to worry about you. Privileged Bodija? What if he is a Molete boy, would you still dismiss him? Because you are really going to lose votes o!
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kalani JR
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

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Nope.
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Rawlings »

Mods, merge thread :winking:

In case you miss road: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=301827
Nwabali -- Aina, Bassey, TroostEkong, Sanusi --- Chukwueze, Aribo, Ndidi, Iwobi --- Osimhem, Sadiq Umar
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

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WHAT SHALL BE SHALL BE SABI
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by marko »

quote-



“My dad was born here, my mum was born in Nigeria, but they both grew up in Nigeria and met each other in Nigeria,” he added.


They came over and when they came to England it wasn’t easy for them because obviously, it’s a new country.


“It’s really cold for them, but they adapted well, and as soon as they had me and my brother they always left everything out the way and put us first.


“Especially my football career, my dad always pushed me, he took me to training on days where sometimes it would take two hours to get to training,” he continued.


“So I’ll always be so grateful for my parents for the work they’ve done for me.”


junk journalism! His dad moved back to the Uk in 1987, he met his mum during a visit to Nigeria, this was around 1998-99, she moved to the UK around 200-01, so all this crap about it was really cold for them is just bull****, adapted well! his dad Yomi was only 17 when he moved back to London, sometimes one has to laugh when i read stuff like this
So angry Nigeria got kicked out of the world cup once again, i nearly told my wife that i caught my girlfriend with another man today!

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Re: Saka for Nigeria

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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Tbite »

This is what I have been trying to explain to Nigerians for years but they still don't understand.

If a person grows up in an environment in the manner that Saka did, he is going to feel a stronger familiarity with that environment OBVIOUSLY. You guys overestimate the genetic factor, relative to the environmental factor. What could push somebody over the line is if they felt like they didn't belong in that environment, i.e. racially abused etc. And even that is not guaranteed, but generally speaking someone who is born and raised in a 'foreign environment' will feel a stronger connection to that environment.

This is just obvious to me. In fact, even the footballers who DID choose the African nations do not even represent a deviation from this! I can state that it it is highly likely for example that someone like Ademola Lookman, feels more English than Nigerian. Just because he played for Nigeria does not even change that. Because a footballer will also feel a connection to their ancestral home and a footballer will also make business decisions. The footballer may make a decision that represents one aspect of their lifestyle, but overall may still feel a different way.

One of the interesting ones is Balotelli, this is a guy who was abused to to end all over Europe, including his 'native' Italy. But I suspect that he still feels more Italian than Ghanaian, even with all of the racism. That just goes to show you just how conclusive my points are. I don't think I am even making a contentious argument here. I think it is likely that I have a landslide verdict here. The facts are simply too strong.

but you guys are arguing with emotions.

I could keep going on and on and making the point in so many ways. The funny thing is even if one of these people said "I am not English", that aspect of their being would be so prominent that it would be akin to a trout proclaiming that it is not a fish. In a sense (not entirely), but in a sense, they do not even have a choice in the matter. Who you are is a combination of the objective realities and the subjective perceptions, and of course the two fluidly interact.

It's like one of my mentors, an American chap, who desperately wants to be Australian and not American, but his American lived experience is so prominent that it follows him without invitation.

Could Saka have played for Nigeria? Yes, why not! Was it more natural for Saka to play for Nigeria than England? Definitely not. The Nigerian possibility was more a 'hope' than the natural course. Of course as Nigerians we are 'biased' and have a vested interest, and because of that, we would like to disregard the reality of the matter.

of course there is more to this general discussion. This arrogance that Nigerians have about how genetic export and also naivety about the economic ruin that lies in Africa and the consequences that it has for future generations. The premise that we can destroy Nigeria, and use the machinery of abroad to create a more functional Nigeria that is not entirely rooted in its firm geographical position, but is a broader nation infiltrating into European, American and other territories. This is largely a pipe dream. While Nigeria does exist in many ways outside of Nigeria, it exists in those places at the mercy of the environmental pressures within those areas. Nigeria can exist in England, but not without the English influence! That is only common sense. Even our resident CEs who were raised in Nigeria but reside in England and do not consider themselves to have a strong affiliation to England, are in many ways English! To deny your environment would be to numb your senses, to pretend that everything you ever saw, heard, tasted, touched etc. did not exist!

The economic migrant who believes he is only ferrying his family halfway across the world to improve their educational and occupational prospects. That is like saying that you are only swimming in the ocean to get closer to marine life and then getting offended that you are now wet!

As if England would just represent a place to hang ones hat, read a few books, and make money. Wishful thinking.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Dammy »

Tbite wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:12 pm This is what I have been trying to explain to Nigerians for years but they still don't understand.

If a person grows up in an environment in the manner that Saka did, he is going to feel a stronger familiarity with that environment OBVIOUSLY. You guys overestimate the genetic factor, relative to the environmental factor. What could push somebody over the line is if they felt like they didn't belong in that environment, i.e. racially abused etc. And even that is not guaranteed, but generally speaking someone who is born and raised in a 'foreign environment' will feel a stronger connection to that environment.

This is just obvious to me. In fact, even the footballers who DID choose the African nations do not even represent a deviation from this! I can state that it it is highly likely for example that someone like Ademola Lookman, feels more English than Nigerian. Just because he played for Nigeria does not even change that. Because a footballer will also feel a connection to their ancestral home and a footballer will also make business decisions. The footballer may make a decision that represents one aspect of their lifestyle, but overall may still feel a different way.

One of the interesting ones is Balotelli, this is a guy who was abused to to end all over Europe, including his 'native' Italy. But I suspect that he still feels more Italian than Ghanaian, even with all of the racism. That just goes to show you just how conclusive my points are. I don't think I am even making a contentious argument here. I think it is likely that I have a landslide verdict here. The facts are simply too strong.

but you guys are arguing with emotions.

I could keep going on and on and making the point in so many ways. The funny thing is even if one of these people said "I am not English", that aspect of their being would be so prominent that it would be akin to a trout proclaiming that it is not a fish. In a sense (not entirely), but in a sense, they do not even have a choice in the matter. Who you are is a combination of the objective realities and the subjective perceptions, and of course the two fluidly interact.

It's like one of my mentors, an American chap, who desperately wants to be Australian and not American, but his American lived experience is so prominent that it follows him without invitation.

Could Saka have played for Nigeria? Yes, why not! Was it more natural for Saka to play for Nigeria than England? Definitely not. The Nigerian possibility was more a 'hope' than the natural course. Of course as Nigerians we are 'biased' and have a vested interest, and because of that, we would like to disregard the reality of the matter.

of course there is more to this general discussion. This arrogance that Nigerians have about how genetic export and also naivety about the economic ruin that lies in Africa and the consequences that it has for future generations. The premise that we can destroy Nigeria, and use the machinery of abroad to create a more functional Nigeria that is not entirely rooted in its firm geographical position, but is a broader nation infiltrating into European, American and other territories. This is largely a pipe dream. While Nigeria does exist in many ways outside of Nigeria, it exists in those places at the mercy of the environmental pressures within those areas. Nigeria can exist in England, but not without the English influence! That is only common sense. Even our resident CEs who were raised in Nigeria but reside in England and do not consider themselves to have a strong affiliation to England, are in many ways English! To deny your environment would be to numb your senses, to pretend that everything you ever saw, heard, tasted, touched etc. did not exist!

The economic migrant who believes he is only ferrying his family halfway across the world to improve their educational and occupational prospects. That is like saying that you are only swimming in the ocean to get closer to marine life and then getting offended that you are now wet!

As if England would just represent a place to hang ones hat, read a few books, and make money. Wishful thinking.
Please edumacate me o! How do you base a conclusion on a suspicion? :lol:
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Tbite »

Dammy wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:35 pm
Tbite wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:12 pm This is what I have been trying to explain to Nigerians for years but they still don't understand.

If a person grows up in an environment in the manner that Saka did, he is going to feel a stronger familiarity with that environment OBVIOUSLY. You guys overestimate the genetic factor, relative to the environmental factor. What could push somebody over the line is if they felt like they didn't belong in that environment, i.e. racially abused etc. And even that is not guaranteed, but generally speaking someone who is born and raised in a 'foreign environment' will feel a stronger connection to that environment.

This is just obvious to me. In fact, even the footballers who DID choose the African nations do not even represent a deviation from this! I can state that it it is highly likely for example that someone like Ademola Lookman, feels more English than Nigerian. Just because he played for Nigeria does not even change that. Because a footballer will also feel a connection to their ancestral home and a footballer will also make business decisions. The footballer may make a decision that represents one aspect of their lifestyle, but overall may still feel a different way.

One of the interesting ones is Balotelli, this is a guy who was abused to to end all over Europe, including his 'native' Italy. But I suspect that he still feels more Italian than Ghanaian, even with all of the racism. That just goes to show you just how conclusive my points are. I don't think I am even making a contentious argument here. I think it is likely that I have a landslide verdict here. The facts are simply too strong.

but you guys are arguing with emotions.

I could keep going on and on and making the point in so many ways. The funny thing is even if one of these people said "I am not English", that aspect of their being would be so prominent that it would be akin to a trout proclaiming that it is not a fish. In a sense (not entirely), but in a sense, they do not even have a choice in the matter. Who you are is a combination of the objective realities and the subjective perceptions, and of course the two fluidly interact.

It's like one of my mentors, an American chap, who desperately wants to be Australian and not American, but his American lived experience is so prominent that it follows him without invitation.

Could Saka have played for Nigeria? Yes, why not! Was it more natural for Saka to play for Nigeria than England? Definitely not. The Nigerian possibility was more a 'hope' than the natural course. Of course as Nigerians we are 'biased' and have a vested interest, and because of that, we would like to disregard the reality of the matter.

of course there is more to this general discussion. This arrogance that Nigerians have about how genetic export and also naivety about the economic ruin that lies in Africa and the consequences that it has for future generations. The premise that we can destroy Nigeria, and use the machinery of abroad to create a more functional Nigeria that is not entirely rooted in its firm geographical position, but is a broader nation infiltrating into European, American and other territories. This is largely a pipe dream. While Nigeria does exist in many ways outside of Nigeria, it exists in those places at the mercy of the environmental pressures within those areas. Nigeria can exist in England, but not without the English influence! That is only common sense. Even our resident CEs who were raised in Nigeria but reside in England and do not consider themselves to have a strong affiliation to England, are in many ways English! To deny your environment would be to numb your senses, to pretend that everything you ever saw, heard, tasted, touched etc. did not exist!

The economic migrant who believes he is only ferrying his family halfway across the world to improve their educational and occupational prospects. That is like saying that you are only swimming in the ocean to get closer to marine life and then getting offended that you are now wet!

As if England would just represent a place to hang ones hat, read a few books, and make money. Wishful thinking.
Please edumacate me o! How do you base a conclusion on a suspicion? :lol:
Because it is not a suspicion. There are countless numbers of books written on this subject. It is a suspicion as it relates to these individuals who I have never met (Lookman, Balotelli etc), but one also based on observation. You are trying to be clever.

It's like me saying that children who are abused have trauma which negatively impacts their productivity or something like that, and then going on to say "I suspect that the child xx yy zz has these attributes".

In fact Saka alludes to the issue directly in his quotes lol. He says his environment is English!

For me it is really strange that I even have to argue this point. YOU guys, not Saka, not Lookman, but YOU guys, not even someone like me who has four siblings that were either born outside of Nigeria or left before the age of 7! (making me more knowledgeable on the topic than MOST of CE), but even you guys who left at age 20 or35 or 40 or even 60!! Even you guys are American and English in a sense!

Damunk who I frequently argue with on this topic is English in a sense lol. Your environment conquers you in a way. I have NEVER met a Nigerian who lived outside of Nigeria who I thought to myself, this guy has been entirely unadulterated by the foreign experience. Not once! The foreign environment changes you, and the change is greater the younger you are. If you are like Saka and are born there, wow it is like an avalanche and a cyclone and a volcanic eruption all at once!

Now many of you are parents, so maybe you think "I gave them eba, and pounded yam and egusi" and took them to the local church. Or maybe you even sent them back to Nigeria for 6 months! That is all well and good, but is it not the African proverb that states that it takes a village to raise a child? What do you think happens when little Saka steps outside of your house? Heck even within your own abode, what do you think happens when he switches on the TV? He damn sure isn't watching NTA news! They become English to a great extent! That's what happens. Essentially English with a tinge of Nigerian. I.e. an Englishman with a Nigerian heritage. Appreciates Suya and Jollof and Afrobeats, but sounds more English than the King and dresses like a roadman innit?

I don't think Saka has anything to apologise for, I think we Nigerians should be the ones apologising to Saka for making him think that he had done something wrong. And that is not tongue in cheek. I mean that in all seriousness. We owe him an apology. He made a reasonable choice and we made him feel bad for it.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Tbite »

I have a sister that was born in Finland and two other siblings born in Australia. Yes they have been to Nigeria before, yes they eat plantain chips and pepper soup etc. but I can tell you this much, they are more Australian than they are Nigerian, it is so obvious to see. And if my dad asked them to represent Nigeria not Australia, while they could do it, it would not be an easy decision on their part.

There is something about Afrocentric people where they pretend the environment doesn't exist lol. They say things like all African people are one and the same (bullshit by the way), they act as if genetics is everything. That is essentially the mistake you guys are making. You are being Afrocentric. At some point I almost went down that route...you guys forget at one point I changed by name here to Black Beret? While I remain committed to Nigeria and Africa, I do not do so discounting facts. Afrocentric people typically do not like facts that do not suit their cause.

WE are not entirely entitled to people just because they carry our blood lol. That is Afrocentric arrogance. I understand you guys, I really do. At one point I was probably like you guys. That's what makes me more adamant to make my point, because I have been there done that. It is the wrong path.

Even someone like Israel Adesanya (not a suspicion) who carries the Nigerian flag, decided that he will live in New Zealand for his days (not simply because of the practicality of CKB) but because of, you guessed it, the environment! He fell in love with the environment that he lived in.

Now I have given you guys solutions. If you really want every tom d#$% and harry to play for Nigeria, then invite them at an early age to spend as much time in our system as possible! In the country, in the youth teams. By the time they become adults, it is essentially too late. but of course you guys don't want solutions, you just want the easy way out that Afrocentrism affords.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Damunk »

This discussion can go on forever but environments differ and therefore that sense of identity differs depending on where and how you were brought up.
I’m pretty sure being brought up in Finland or for that matter, Australia is very different from being brought up in the UK and even more specifically, London.
It’s just not the same for Nigerians here and just to illustrate, you made this point which made me laugh:
“I have NEVER met a Nigerian who lived outside of Nigeria who I thought to myself, this guy has been entirely unadulterated by the foreign experience. Not once!”
Come to London.
Dem plenti!!! It’s actually ridiculous.
You will think some of these people arrived from the village in Naija just yesterday! They’ve lived here for decades but it is their children that help them navigate society because they are so insular.
And how is this possible in the UK’s Indian and African communities? It’s because those communities are large enough and concentrated enough to have formed self-sufficient subcultures of their own. You’re hearing pidgin and Yoruba and to a lesser extent Igbo everywhere you turn in many districts in London - and MOST of south London.
You can’t even compare the USA to the UK for reasons probably requiring a whole new discussion thread.

Remember, some of us were not only born and grew up in this country to varying degrees, but now have our own grown children here in whom we see the difference from our own time as African kids when we basically distanced ourselves from our African roots. Today, pop culture has made that African (read ‘Nigerian’) connection even stronger here and that’s just stark reality. It’s actually beautiful to see the pride and projection of our identity even by kids who have never even been to their African mother lands.

Playing for England is of no more significance culturally than you or I taking up a job in Britain, Australia or the USA.
It’s primarily a career choice for the vast majority here.
I can’t say the same for any other western country because my lived experience there is limited.
But this UK one I know.
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by Kneedeep »

Upon all the ethnic squabbles Nigerians love to forment, it does not extend to instilling this precious ethnic identity into your children ? Waaa-uw you learn something new every day
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Re: Saka for Nigeria

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

In a country with over 300 ethnic groups and languages, you can and should expect that there’ll be numerous diverse opinions on this subject.

Nigerians have never been known to be tied to the yoke of Nigerian-ism, arguably unfortunately. We have hero worshipped the likes of Pele, Mohammed Ali, Michael Jackson, etc. who are not Nigerians in the past. There’s nothing wrong with an individual showing maximum love for Saka if they so wish but for that individual to insist that others must share the same feeling is arrogant and patronizing. Like Sean Connery, playing the role of James Bond once said, I prefer to love the women I sleep with. No one should have to make any excuses for reserving their admiration for only players who choose to represent Nigeria. That does not warrant all the platitudes and finger pointing going on as a result of that choice❗️


Cheers.

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