Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

[Skylolo]

@Skylo, re: while Arsenal plan to challenge for the highest Championship in England, and battle for the best for Europe's top prize...please define challenge and explain how finishing 19 pts adrift signifies said challenge.

Kindest regards.

3rd position 19 points behind in the Premier league title is better than 4th position, 5th position, 6th position and so on...that 17 other Premier league teams occupied.

It is also a heck of a lot better than being in the Championship ..I am sure you will agree.

[balo]

brutal.brutal!!!

http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/vir ... rop-183898

The consistency is commendable. 3rd or 4th. Why be 6th only to go win CL?

[paj]

...Babanla Upgrade..

[Coach]

@Skylo, granted playing in the Premiership exceeds playing in the leagues below, but alas, the adjective used was 'challenging'...you have yet to justify its employment. How is finishing 19 points behind the frontrunners, mounting a challenge? Also, what sort of a challenge was offered in the cup competitions?

[mke1010]

The two lines of attack that are pure manure and no longer carry spin power.

(i) Anyone criticizing Arsenal is not a fan or is not a real fan.
How many times have we heard this old tired line of attack? The tides have turned so it is actually those who support the status quo that must be questioned on their patriotism.

(ii) Look at Leeds. Do you want what happened to them to happen to us? I remember what Arsenal used to be like pre Wenger. Do you want us to go back to the dark ages?
Another absolutely rubbish tactic designed to create the illusion that those asking for meaningful/reasonable change are irresponsible and threaten to jeopardize the welfare of the club by seeking risky change.

The above contentions are simply hog wash. Arsenal is not Leeds. We are not asking Arsenal to live beyond its means. And those who trumpet these lines of attack know this very well. We are simply asking the team to spend the proceeds from player sales and not pocket it. Stop hanging on to players that are no longer weapons on the field simply out of being cheap. Stop falling short by just one or two players when it may mean a championship simply because you dont want to spend. Once in a while put championship aspirations ahead of profit. This season had we held on to RVP, our chances to win a title would definitely have been higher. Would I take an EPL title or FA cup title in lieu of 24 million for RVP? Hell yes.

Finally, the management team of Kroenke is more interested in its long term investment than championships. And anyone who thinks this is not a threat to the tradition, pride and accomplishment of our great club is in serious denial. Any time you have an owner who could careless whether championships are won as long as the profit margin goals are being met, the fans are in serious trouble. In our case we are in deep doodoo because Lucifer does not even like football. He has no passion for the game. You think he gives a crap about titles? The outrage of intelligent, faithful and hardcore fans at the management/fan meetings tells you that majority of fans have little faith in the status quo. So if any section of fans need to re-examine their vision of the club, it is the status quo group.

[Waffiman]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 27781.html

James Lawton: Fans hungry for success should accept Arsene Wenger is talking sense

The Arsenal manager believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it

26 October 2012

What Arsenal need is not the smattering of ­desperate souls who got up the nerve to heckle Arsene Wenger at the club’s Annual General Meeting but people who have genuine stoicism and vision and quite like the idea of being led towards a better world, one which rewards a degree of idealism and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Wenger didn’t quite put it this way yesterday when he rose to his feet at what was generally seen as another critical point in his extraordinary career but that was his drift — and, in not the least surprising development of what was supposed to be a tumultuous day, he received a standing ovation.

He got that, at least it is pretty to believe, because if he has not won a trophy for seven years — and if it is six since he missed out on what would have been such a natural climax to one of the most glorious passages of a great club’s history in the Champions League Final at the Stade de France — he continues to represent something very fine, and very rare, in today’s game.

He believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it, and not either put itself in hock — e.g. Manchester United — or tout for huge windfalls from such random sources as mineral rich oligarchs or sheikhs, e.g. Chelsea and Manchester City, the latter having earlier dallied for some time with a Thai politician who, despite apparently being an excellent companion over 18 holes, from time to time found himself accused of grave offences against humanity.

You may say that among the contenders for power at Arsenal, the American sports entrepreneur and chief shareholder Stan Kroenke and the Uzbek oligarch Alisher Usmanov are not utterly outstanding examples of philanthropy, the latter having racked up a fortune of around £14billion in a society where doctors and teachers were known to wait months for their meagre salaries, but nevertheless the club do operate on the basis that one day, in a saner world, it will be the one which operates in a seamless and successful future.

Chief executive Ivan Gazidis ran a gauntlet of scorn yesterday when he declared that the Arsenal faithful may have to wait just two years before the benefits of the Financial Fair Play regulations put them back in the forefront of winning clubs but it was a promise that surely had some foundation in reality.

Wenger, inevitably, made the point most eloquently when he said: “My job is to deliver a team with the resources we have and I have never complained about that. I want a club paying players from its own resources and there is no shame in that. It is important that we keep our strength and stay united for the good of Arsenal.”
He said the defeats by Norwich and Schalke were hard to explain but assured the shareholders that the team had a fantastic focus and attitude and that with injured players returning to action — most notably the inspiring Jack Wilshere — the most important challenge of maintaining a constant presence in the Champions League was once again within the club’s grasp.

It was not as if Arsenal were down among the dead men. They were still exhibiting vital signs, they still boasted of a quality currently best expressed by the extraordinary Santi Cazorla, and if the faith was kept there might just be a sweet, even heavenly reward.

Yes, it may be a reach. It may require Arsenal fans to grit their teeth yet again, this time at the re-emergence of Chelsea, not withstanding their ambush by an impressive young Ukrainian team in Donetsk, as a seriously competitive team imbued with new levels of skill and inspiration provided by such expensive imports as Oscar and Eden Hazard.

Arsenal’s following is being asked to forfeit the instant gratifications of big-money football commerce. It has to agree that when a Samir Nasri or a Robin van Persie, even a Bacary Sagna, say their loyalty may come only at an unacceptable price, a stand has to be made if the future is to be secured truly. This, in the current climate of English football, is no doubt a huge requirement. It is a plea for some vision beyond the trenches, some idea of how both Arsenal and the wider world of football can achieve not just a degree of stability but also, who knows, a degree of competitive justice.

These, surely, are unusual demands to make on the modern football fan. He has grown up, after all, in a world where spending money, borrowed money, donated money, money that may not always be on tap, has become the prerequisite of success.

Doggedly, with the fierce eyes of a natural-born seer, Wenger continues to insist there is another way, another dream. Some of course say that he is mad. Maybe so, but then who in football can so easily look into the mirror before making such a charge?

[ohenhen1]

Oh please

[mke1010]

Yup sensible responsible mature news reporting. Why? Becos it caters to a certain mind set. Should anyone post similar reporting with the opposing viewpoint, it becomes irresponsible ignorant and uninformed journalism.
No wahala I have read the above piece and it does nothing to change the fact that Lucifer and his cohorts do not care about Arsenal's ambitions on the pitch outside of CL qualification and profits.


p.s- for every one of these board sponsored talking points, there are 10 that dispute the integrity and sense of the so called long term plan. Let me remind folks that the same people who are pushing this talking point where once pointing to 2010/2011/2012 as the future. They said the sacrifices of yester years would be the foundation of the "future."
Today, they are pushing the same philosophy. Ask them exactly when will "future" arrive and they remain silent. When will this plan come to fruition? For many of them if it takes forever, they will sit tight at the back of the bus waiting for forever. Just watch, when 2015 arrives the same people talking about the future today will still be talking about the future then.
The truth is that we have arrived at the future. The future is now. Unfortunately kroenke has a different vision of the future which means our present is fvvvcked.

[anikulapo]

John Cross is right when he says that that senile old goat PHW really thinks that Arsenal is his private members club and that the fans are just a necessary inconvenience....What a shocking imbecile What this old buffoon brings to this club except incorrigibly pompous attitude is beyond me...

Shocking angel* Where have you gone David Dein

[platinum]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 27781.html

James Lawton: Fans hungry for success should accept Arsene Wenger is talking sense

The Arsenal manager believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it

26 October 2012

What Arsenal need is not the smattering of ­desperate souls who got up the nerve to heckle Arsene Wenger at the club’s Annual General Meeting but people who have genuine stoicism and vision and quite like the idea of being led towards a better world, one which rewards a degree of idealism and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Wenger didn’t quite put it this way yesterday when he rose to his feet at what was generally seen as another critical point in his extraordinary career but that was his drift — and, in not the least surprising development of what was supposed to be a tumultuous day, he received a standing ovation.

He got that, at least it is pretty to believe, because if he has not won a trophy for seven years — and if it is six since he missed out on what would have been such a natural climax to one of the most glorious passages of a great club’s history in the Champions League Final at the Stade de France — he continues to represent something very fine, and very rare, in today’s game.

He believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it, and not either put itself in hock — e.g. Manchester United — or tout for huge windfalls from such random sources as mineral rich oligarchs or sheikhs, e.g. Chelsea and Manchester City, the latter having earlier dallied for some time with a Thai politician who, despite apparently being an excellent companion over 18 holes, from time to time found himself accused of grave offences against humanity.

You may say that among the contenders for power at Arsenal, the American sports entrepreneur and chief shareholder Stan Kroenke and the Uzbek oligarch Alisher Usmanov are not utterly outstanding examples of philanthropy, the latter having racked up a fortune of around £14billion in a society where doctors and teachers were known to wait months for their meagre salaries, but nevertheless the club do operate on the basis that one day, in a saner world, it will be the one which operates in a seamless and successful future.

Chief executive Ivan Gazidis ran a gauntlet of scorn yesterday when he declared that the Arsenal faithful may have to wait just two years before the benefits of the Financial Fair Play regulations put them back in the forefront of winning clubs but it was a promise that surely had some foundation in reality.

Wenger, inevitably, made the point most eloquently when he said: “My job is to deliver a team with the resources we have and I have never complained about that. I want a club paying players from its own resources and there is no shame in that. It is important that we keep our strength and stay united for the good of Arsenal.”
He said the defeats by Norwich and Schalke were hard to explain but assured the shareholders that the team had a fantastic focus and attitude and that with injured players returning to action — most notably the inspiring Jack Wilshere — the most important challenge of maintaining a constant presence in the Champions League was once again within the club’s grasp.

It was not as if Arsenal were down among the dead men. They were still exhibiting vital signs, they still boasted of a quality currently best expressed by the extraordinary Santi Cazorla, and if the faith was kept there might just be a sweet, even heavenly reward.

Yes, it may be a reach. It may require Arsenal fans to grit their teeth yet again, this time at the re-emergence of Chelsea, not withstanding their ambush by an impressive young Ukrainian team in Donetsk, as a seriously competitive team imbued with new levels of skill and inspiration provided by such expensive imports as Oscar and Eden Hazard.

Arsenal’s following is being asked to forfeit the instant gratifications of big-money football commerce. It has to agree that when a Samir Nasri or a Robin van Persie, even a Bacary Sagna, say their loyalty may come only at an unacceptable price, a stand has to be made if the future is to be secured truly. This, in the current climate of English football, is no doubt a huge requirement. It is a plea for some vision beyond the trenches, some idea of how both Arsenal and the wider world of football can achieve not just a degree of stability but also, who knows, a degree of competitive justice.

These, surely, are unusual demands to make on the modern football fan. He has grown up, after all, in a world where spending money, borrowed money, donated money, money that may not always be on tap, has become the prerequisite of success.

Doggedly, with the fierce eyes of a natural-born seer, Wenger continues to insist there is another way, another dream. Some of course say that he is mad. Maybe so, but then who in football can so easily look into the mirror before making such a charge?

Wenger is an economist, many times economists are the last to see that the theory doesnt apply to the practical. Like I said all yesterday and have been saying for a minute now, these guys are banking on FFP, they may find that it isn't the salve they anticipated...then what?

In ANY business, you simply have to be agile. gility in our case would have been buying ONE key man or keeping ONE key man. Why is Arsenal always one yar behind? Take this year, we've got all these guys in and gotten rid of some but we're one key man short, we can all agree that if RVP was in this squad with Santi et al, this becomes one of the scariest in Europe. Previous years, we did same, getting in Arteta and co too late (we lost nasri and cesc).

I appreciate the LONGTERM planning here, the club is better run from a business pov than probably any other in the EPL but the fact is it's sports, if you're not winning any trophies to show for your finely tuned machine then all you have is eyecandy. In today's world, a brand can get a bad name very quickly, yesterday City was City, today City is oil money, tomorrow they'll be something else...we're getting to the point were the generations today know Arsenal as the bridesmaid, you and i can cough and hack all we want and talk of the history, this gen doesnt care, they want gratification and they want it now... Arsenal is playing a dangerous game betting on FFP, they'd better be hedging that bet but they don't seem to be doing so.

I don taya to complain, time to sip some whiskey and relax...I see Arsene's point very clearly and I disagree, it's a very economist way of seeing things.

[mke1010]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 27781.html

James Lawton: Fans hungry for success should accept Arsene Wenger is talking sense

The Arsenal manager believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it

26 October 2012

What Arsenal need is not the smattering of ­desperate souls who got up the nerve to heckle Arsene Wenger at the club’s Annual General Meeting but people who have genuine stoicism and vision and quite like the idea of being led towards a better world, one which rewards a degree of idealism and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Wenger didn’t quite put it this way yesterday when he rose to his feet at what was generally seen as another critical point in his extraordinary career but that was his drift — and, in not the least surprising development of what was supposed to be a tumultuous day, he received a standing ovation.

He got that, at least it is pretty to believe, because if he has not won a trophy for seven years — and if it is six since he missed out on what would have been such a natural climax to one of the most glorious passages of a great club’s history in the Champions League Final at the Stade de France — he continues to represent something very fine, and very rare, in today’s game.

He believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it, and not either put itself in hock — e.g. Manchester United — or tout for huge windfalls from such random sources as mineral rich oligarchs or sheikhs, e.g. Chelsea and Manchester City, the latter having earlier dallied for some time with a Thai politician who, despite apparently being an excellent companion over 18 holes, from time to time found himself accused of grave offences against humanity.

You may say that among the contenders for power at Arsenal, the American sports entrepreneur and chief shareholder Stan Kroenke and the Uzbek oligarch Alisher Usmanov are not utterly outstanding examples of philanthropy, the latter having racked up a fortune of around £14billion in a society where doctors and teachers were known to wait months for their meagre salaries, but nevertheless the club do operate on the basis that one day, in a saner world, it will be the one which operates in a seamless and successful future.

Chief executive Ivan Gazidis ran a gauntlet of scorn yesterday when he declared that the Arsenal faithful may have to wait just two years before the benefits of the Financial Fair Play regulations put them back in the forefront of winning clubs but it was a promise that surely had some foundation in reality.

Wenger, inevitably, made the point most eloquently when he said: “My job is to deliver a team with the resources we have and I have never complained about that. I want a club paying players from its own resources and there is no shame in that. It is important that we keep our strength and stay united for the good of Arsenal.”
He said the defeats by Norwich and Schalke were hard to explain but assured the shareholders that the team had a fantastic focus and attitude and that with injured players returning to action — most notably the inspiring Jack Wilshere — the most important challenge of maintaining a constant presence in the Champions League was once again within the club’s grasp.

It was not as if Arsenal were down among the dead men. They were still exhibiting vital signs, they still boasted of a quality currently best expressed by the extraordinary Santi Cazorla, and if the faith was kept there might just be a sweet, even heavenly reward.

Yes, it may be a reach. It may require Arsenal fans to grit their teeth yet again, this time at the re-emergence of Chelsea, not withstanding their ambush by an impressive young Ukrainian team in Donetsk, as a seriously competitive team imbued with new levels of skill and inspiration provided by such expensive imports as Oscar and Eden Hazard.

Arsenal’s following is being asked to forfeit the instant gratifications of big-money football commerce. It has to agree that when a Samir Nasri or a Robin van Persie, even a Bacary Sagna, say their loyalty may come only at an unacceptable price, a stand has to be made if the future is to be secured truly. This, in the current climate of English football, is no doubt a huge requirement. It is a plea for some vision beyond the trenches, some idea of how both Arsenal and the wider world of football can achieve not just a degree of stability but also, who knows, a degree of competitive justice.

These, surely, are unusual demands to make on the modern football fan. He has grown up, after all, in a world where spending money, borrowed money, donated money, money that may not always be on tap, has become the prerequisite of success.

Doggedly, with the fierce eyes of a natural-born seer, Wenger continues to insist there is another way, another dream. Some of course say that he is mad. Maybe so, but then who in football can so easily look into the mirror before making such a charge?

Wenger is an economist, many times economists are the last to see that the theory doesnt apply to the practical. Like I said all yesterday and have been saying for a minute now, these guys are banking on FFP, they may find that it isn't the salve they anticipated...then what?

In ANY business, you simply have to be agile. gility in our case would have been buying ONE key man or keeping ONE key man. Why is Arsenal always one yar behind? Take this year, we've got all these guys in and gotten rid of some but we're one key man short, we can all agree that if RVP was in this squad with Santi et al, this becomes one of the scariest in Europe. Previous years, we did same, getting in Arteta and co too late (we lost nasri and cesc).

I appreciate the LONGTERM planning here, the club is better run from a business pov than probably any other in the EPL but the fact is it's sports, if you're not winning any trophies to show for your finely tuned machine then all you have is eyecandy. In today's world, a brand can get a bad name very quickly, yesterday City was City, today City is oil money, tomorrow they'll be something else...we're getting to the point were the generations today know Arsenal as the bridesmaid, you and i can cough and hack all we want and talk of the history, this gen doesnt care, they want gratification and they want it now... Arsenal is playing a dangerous game betting on FFP, they'd better be hedging that bet but they don't seem to be doing so.

I don taya to complain, time to sip some whiskey and relax...I see Arsene's point very clearly and I disagree, it's a very economist way of seeing things.

And that has always been my beef. Who does the eye candy benefit? Certainly not the fan. And if the eye candy continues to sweeten day after day even without championships, is there any incentive to win silverware by ownership? Of course not!!!!!!!!

And that is why fans like you and I can see when we are 1 or 2 key players away and management cant see it. Becos they are looking at it from a different perspective. Had someone who cared about football and the fans been at the helm of affairs, RVP would have seen out the last year of his contract- 24 million be damned. Arsenal would have been a much more lethal club and a real threat. But the investors and economists that run the club cant even fathom such a decision because it is not in their DNA. We all appreciate how the club is run. But when you are too rigid and inflexible in your methods, failure is not too far down the road.

This idea that in a couple of years, Manu, Barca, Real, Chelsea, Man City et al will all disappear due to FFP is the biggest pipe dream I have ever seen. Talk about building a fantasy on sand. All these teams will crumble and only Arsenal will be left standing to dominate forever. lol.........Talk about certifiable delusions.

[platinum]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 27781.html

James Lawton: Fans hungry for success should accept Arsene Wenger is talking sense

The Arsenal manager believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it

26 October 2012

What Arsenal need is not the smattering of ­desperate souls who got up the nerve to heckle Arsene Wenger at the club’s Annual General Meeting but people who have genuine stoicism and vision and quite like the idea of being led towards a better world, one which rewards a degree of idealism and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Wenger didn’t quite put it this way yesterday when he rose to his feet at what was generally seen as another critical point in his extraordinary career but that was his drift — and, in not the least surprising development of what was supposed to be a tumultuous day, he received a standing ovation.

He got that, at least it is pretty to believe, because if he has not won a trophy for seven years — and if it is six since he missed out on what would have been such a natural climax to one of the most glorious passages of a great club’s history in the Champions League Final at the Stade de France — he continues to represent something very fine, and very rare, in today’s game.

He believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it, and not either put itself in hock — e.g. Manchester United — or tout for huge windfalls from such random sources as mineral rich oligarchs or sheikhs, e.g. Chelsea and Manchester City, the latter having earlier dallied for some time with a Thai politician who, despite apparently being an excellent companion over 18 holes, from time to time found himself accused of grave offences against humanity.

You may say that among the contenders for power at Arsenal, the American sports entrepreneur and chief shareholder Stan Kroenke and the Uzbek oligarch Alisher Usmanov are not utterly outstanding examples of philanthropy, the latter having racked up a fortune of around £14billion in a society where doctors and teachers were known to wait months for their meagre salaries, but nevertheless the club do operate on the basis that one day, in a saner world, it will be the one which operates in a seamless and successful future.

Chief executive Ivan Gazidis ran a gauntlet of scorn yesterday when he declared that the Arsenal faithful may have to wait just two years before the benefits of the Financial Fair Play regulations put them back in the forefront of winning clubs but it was a promise that surely had some foundation in reality.

Wenger, inevitably, made the point most eloquently when he said: “My job is to deliver a team with the resources we have and I have never complained about that. I want a club paying players from its own resources and there is no shame in that. It is important that we keep our strength and stay united for the good of Arsenal.”
He said the defeats by Norwich and Schalke were hard to explain but assured the shareholders that the team had a fantastic focus and attitude and that with injured players returning to action — most notably the inspiring Jack Wilshere — the most important challenge of maintaining a constant presence in the Champions League was once again within the club’s grasp.

It was not as if Arsenal were down among the dead men. They were still exhibiting vital signs, they still boasted of a quality currently best expressed by the extraordinary Santi Cazorla, and if the faith was kept there might just be a sweet, even heavenly reward.

Yes, it may be a reach. It may require Arsenal fans to grit their teeth yet again, this time at the re-emergence of Chelsea, not withstanding their ambush by an impressive young Ukrainian team in Donetsk, as a seriously competitive team imbued with new levels of skill and inspiration provided by such expensive imports as Oscar and Eden Hazard.

Arsenal’s following is being asked to forfeit the instant gratifications of big-money football commerce. It has to agree that when a Samir Nasri or a Robin van Persie, even a Bacary Sagna, say their loyalty may come only at an unacceptable price, a stand has to be made if the future is to be secured truly. This, in the current climate of English football, is no doubt a huge requirement. It is a plea for some vision beyond the trenches, some idea of how both Arsenal and the wider world of football can achieve not just a degree of stability but also, who knows, a degree of competitive justice.

These, surely, are unusual demands to make on the modern football fan. He has grown up, after all, in a world where spending money, borrowed money, donated money, money that may not always be on tap, has become the prerequisite of success.

Doggedly, with the fierce eyes of a natural-born seer, Wenger continues to insist there is another way, another dream. Some of course say that he is mad. Maybe so, but then who in football can so easily look into the mirror before making such a charge?

Wenger is an economist, many times economists are the last to see that the theory doesnt apply to the practical. Like I said all yesterday and have been saying for a minute now, these guys are banking on FFP, they may find that it isn't the salve they anticipated...then what?

In ANY business, you simply have to be agile. gility in our case would have been buying ONE key man or keeping ONE key man. Why is Arsenal always one yar behind? Take this year, we've got all these guys in and gotten rid of some but we're one key man short, we can all agree that if RVP was in this squad with Santi et al, this becomes one of the scariest in Europe. Previous years, we did same, getting in Arteta and co too late (we lost nasri and cesc).

I appreciate the LONGTERM planning here, the club is better run from a business pov than probably any other in the EPL but the fact is it's sports, if you're not winning any trophies to show for your finely tuned machine then all you have is eyecandy. In today's world, a brand can get a bad name very quickly, yesterday City was City, today City is oil money, tomorrow they'll be something else...we're getting to the point were the generations today know Arsenal as the bridesmaid, you and i can cough and hack all we want and talk of the history, this gen doesnt care, they want gratification and they want it now... Arsenal is playing a dangerous game betting on FFP, they'd better be hedging that bet but they don't seem to be doing so.

I don taya to complain, time to sip some whiskey and relax...I see Arsene's point very clearly and I disagree, it's a very economist way of seeing things.

And that has always been my beef. Who does the eye candy benefit? Certainly not the fan. And if the eye candy continues to sweeten day after day even without championships, is there any incentive to win silverware by ownership? Of course not!!!!!!!!

And that is why fans like you and I can see when we are 1 or 2 key players away and management cant see it. Becos they are looking at it from a different perspective. Had someone who cared about football and the fans been at the helm of affairs, RVP would have seen out the last year of his contract- 24 million be damned. Arsenal would have been a much more lethal club and a real threat. But the investors and economists that run the club cant even fathom such a decision because it is not in their DNA. We all appreciate how the club is run. But when you are too rigid and inflexible in your methods, failure is not too far down the road.

This idea that in a couple of years, Manu, Barca, Real, Chelsea, Man City et al will all disappear due to FFP is the biggest pipe dream I have ever seen. Talk about building a fantasy on sand. All these teams will crumble and only Arsenal will be left standing to dominate forever. lol.........Talk about certifiable delusions.

*raises glass of Makers Mark... Cheers. No need to add more.

[wanaj0]

What is this FFP talk about? I've asked many times, will it stop clubs from raising money via equity????? Yes it will impact their ROE but who cares? Chelsea can just issue new shares to Roman to raise more money for example. How does FFP handles that?

The problem is that Arsenal Shareholders are not willing to INVEST in the club! Every business when you need more money for expansion etc turns to debt or equity. While FFP may reduce clubs ability to raise money via debt cant see how it will stop them from raising money via equity! Dont even talk about sponsorship 'deals' that can always be arranged! FFP will change NOTHING.

[Coach]

@Wanajo, fools three sheets to the wind, mutter 'FFP' from beer stenched mouths, few have any understanding of its mandate. Financial Fair Play will not level any playing field, rather force a consolidation of power at the top and preserve the longevity of the status quo. The sole purpose of said 'ground-breaking economical initiative', is not to promote growth amongst the lessers, but rather, to stop the big boys blowing budgets and sliding down into the doldrums ala Leeds and Glasgow Rangers.

In short, a teams outlay must be proportional to its revenue generated. If a team makes more, they can spend more. Whilst some will see the fattening of the calf for the meat market as a prerequisite for sustenance in such a climate, those of more clout and championship intention, exploit loopholes elsewhere. Theme parks, hotels, resorts, ventures that will deepen the pool of gold coins in the coffers of the filthy rich, will/are becoming the must haves. Lest we forget the prize of success, look at the bounty afforded a successful Premier League/Champions League innings...And then theres sponsorship deals, how many brands are queuing up to procure affiliation with failures?

Financial Fair Play is a myth that will achieve nothing other than to further polarise the competition. Wenger, a seasoned failure, is the loudest of proponents for such a stance, why? Simply because it weakens the competition around his fourth placed finish.

One wont waste the time delving deeper into the FFP farce, there has been ample writings on its conservatism from learned sources. Many months back, once referenced a paper detailing how FFP was the brainchild of a governing body intent on maximising capital gains from its competitions. Only a Stella Artoised crayon junkie believes FFP will be the knight in shining armour, riding on the palest white horse, bellowing 'gloria! gloria!'.

[wanaj0]

@Wanajo, fools three sheets to the wind, mutter 'FFP' from beer stenched mouths, few have any understanding of its mandate. Financial Fair Play will not level any playing field, rather force a consolidation of power at the top and preserve the longevity of the status quo. The sole purpose of said 'ground-breaking economical initiative', is not to promote growth amongst the lessers, but rather, to stop the big boys blowing budgets and sliding down into the doldrums ala Leeds and Glasgow Rangers.

In short, a teams outlay must be proportional to its revenue generated. If a team makes more, they can spend more. Whilst some will see the fattening of the calf for the meat market as a prerequisite for sustenance in such a climate, those of more clout and championship intention, exploit loopholes elsewhere. Theme parks, hotels, resorts, ventures that will deepen the pool of gold coins in the coffers of the filthy rich, will/are becoming the must haves. Lest we forget the prize of success, look at the bounty afforded a successful Premier League/Champions League innings...And then theres sponsorship deals, how many brands are queuing up to procure affiliation with failures?

Financial Fair Play is a myth that will achieve nothing other than to further polarise the competition. Wenger, a seasoned failure, is the loudest of proponents for such a stance, why? Simply because it weakens the competition around his fourth placed finish.

One wont waste the time delving deeper into the FFP farce, there has been ample writings on its conservatism from learned sources. Many months back, once referenced a paper detailing how FFP was the brainchild of a governing body intent on maximising capital gains from its competitions. Only a Stella Artoised crayon junkie believes FFP will be the knight in shining armour, riding on the palest white horse, bellowing 'gloria! gloria!'.

That is a bit confusing. Let's assume that a club is making a loss, so they are not allow to borrow money and spend.

Will the FFP stop such clubs from raising money via equity? Can't the club issue new shares to Coach so that Coach can invest in the company? Will the club now be stopped from using the money raised to buy players etc! Note that making a loss does not mean that you are in debt!

A club with a Sugar Daddy can always raise funds via equity! Dont think Profit is of concern to them!

[kofi86]

@Wanajo, fools three sheets to the wind, mutter 'FFP' from beer stenched mouths, few have any understanding of its mandate. Financial Fair Play will not level any playing field, rather force a consolidation of power at the top and preserve the longevity of the status quo. The sole purpose of said 'ground-breaking economical initiative', is not to promote growth amongst the lessers, but rather, to stop the big boys blowing budgets and sliding down into the doldrums ala Leeds and Glasgow Rangers.

In short, a teams outlay must be proportional to its revenue generated. If a team makes more, they can spend more. Whilst some will see the fattening of the calf for the meat market as a prerequisite for sustenance in such a climate, those of more clout and championship intention, exploit loopholes elsewhere. Theme parks, hotels, resorts, ventures that will deepen the pool of gold coins in the coffers of the filthy rich, will/are becoming the must haves. Lest we forget the prize of success, look at the bounty afforded a successful Premier League/Champions League innings...And then theres sponsorship deals, how many brands are queuing up to procure affiliation with failures?

Financial Fair Play is a myth that will achieve nothing other than to further polarise the competition. Wenger, a seasoned failure, is the loudest of proponents for such a stance, why? Simply because it weakens the competition around his fourth placed finish.

One wont waste the time delving deeper into the FFP farce, there has been ample writings on its conservatism from learned sources. Many months back, once referenced a paper detailing how FFP was the brainchild of a governing body intent on maximising capital gains from its competitions. Only a Stella Artoised crayon junkie believes FFP will be the knight in shining armour, riding on the palest white horse, bellowing 'gloria! gloria!'.

That is a bit confusing. Let's assume that a club is making a loss, so they are not allow to borrow money and spend.

Will the FFP stop such clubs from raising money via equity? Can't the club issue new shares to Coach so that Coach can invest in the company? Will the club now be stopped from using the money raised to buy players etc! Note that making a loss does not mean that you are in debt!

A club with a Sugar Daddy can always raise funds via equity! Dont think Profit is of concern to them!

No, it is against FFP.

[wanaj0]

What is against FFP? Raising equity????

@Wanajo, fools three sheets to the wind, mutter 'FFP' from beer stenched mouths, few have any understanding of its mandate. Financial Fair Play will not level any playing field, rather force a consolidation of power at the top and preserve the longevity of the status quo. The sole purpose of said 'ground-breaking economical initiative', is not to promote growth amongst the lessers, but rather, to stop the big boys blowing budgets and sliding down into the doldrums ala Leeds and Glasgow Rangers.

In short, a teams outlay must be proportional to its revenue generated. If a team makes more, they can spend more. Whilst some will see the fattening of the calf for the meat market as a prerequisite for sustenance in such a climate, those of more clout and championship intention, exploit loopholes elsewhere. Theme parks, hotels, resorts, ventures that will deepen the pool of gold coins in the coffers of the filthy rich, will/are becoming the must haves. Lest we forget the prize of success, look at the bounty afforded a successful Premier League/Champions League innings...And then theres sponsorship deals, how many brands are queuing up to procure affiliation with failures?

Financial Fair Play is a myth that will achieve nothing other than to further polarise the competition. Wenger, a seasoned failure, is the loudest of proponents for such a stance, why? Simply because it weakens the competition around his fourth placed finish.

One wont waste the time delving deeper into the FFP farce, there has been ample writings on its conservatism from learned sources. Many months back, once referenced a paper detailing how FFP was the brainchild of a governing body intent on maximising capital gains from its competitions. Only a Stella Artoised crayon junkie believes FFP will be the knight in shining armour, riding on the palest white horse, bellowing 'gloria! gloria!'.

That is a bit confusing. Let's assume that a club is making a loss, so they are not allow to borrow money and spend.

Will the FFP stop such clubs from raising money via equity? Can't the club issue new shares to Coach so that Coach can invest in the company? Will the club now be stopped from using the money raised to buy players etc! Note that making a loss does not mean that you are in debt!

A club with a Sugar Daddy can always raise funds via equity! Dont think Profit is of concern to them!

No, it is against FFP.

[kofi86]

What is against FFP? Raising equity????

@Wanajo, fools three sheets to the wind, mutter 'FFP' from beer stenched mouths, few have any understanding of its mandate. Financial Fair Play will not level any playing field, rather force a consolidation of power at the top and preserve the longevity of the status quo. The sole purpose of said 'ground-breaking economical initiative', is not to promote growth amongst the lessers, but rather, to stop the big boys blowing budgets and sliding down into the doldrums ala Leeds and Glasgow Rangers.

In short, a teams outlay must be proportional to its revenue generated. If a team makes more, they can spend more. Whilst some will see the fattening of the calf for the meat market as a prerequisite for sustenance in such a climate, those of more clout and championship intention, exploit loopholes elsewhere. Theme parks, hotels, resorts, ventures that will deepen the pool of gold coins in the coffers of the filthy rich, will/are becoming the must haves. Lest we forget the prize of success, look at the bounty afforded a successful Premier League/Champions League innings...And then theres sponsorship deals, how many brands are queuing up to procure affiliation with failures?

Financial Fair Play is a myth that will achieve nothing other than to further polarise the competition. Wenger, a seasoned failure, is the loudest of proponents for such a stance, why? Simply because it weakens the competition around his fourth placed finish.

One wont waste the time delving deeper into the FFP farce, there has been ample writings on its conservatism from learned sources. Many months back, once referenced a paper detailing how FFP was the brainchild of a governing body intent on maximising capital gains from its competitions. Only a Stella Artoised crayon junkie believes FFP will be the knight in shining armour, riding on the palest white horse, bellowing 'gloria! gloria!'.

That is a bit confusing. Let's assume that a club is making a loss, so they are not allow to borrow money and spend.

Will the FFP stop such clubs from raising money via equity? Can't the club issue new shares to Coach so that Coach can invest in the company? Will the club now be stopped from using the money raised to buy players etc! Note that making a loss does not mean that you are in debt!

A club with a Sugar Daddy can always raise funds via equity! Dont think Profit is of concern to them!

No, it is against FFP.

Yes, raising equity by buying new shares is named as an example in the german version of the rules. Note though, that I don't know the penalties, I doubt that Uefa will be quick to ban teams from the CL.

[wanaj0]

Yes, raising equity by buying new shares is named as an example in the german version of the rules. Note though, that I don't know the penalties, I doubt that Uefa will be quick to ban teams from the CL.

Buying OR Issuing new shares?????

So if you stop a 'company' from raising capital via equity what options are there? Debt?

Getting confused!

Make I no derail Arsenal thread

[Tunisian Gooner]

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 27781.html

James Lawton: Fans hungry for success should accept Arsene Wenger is talking sense

The Arsenal manager believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it

26 October 2012

What Arsenal need is not the smattering of ­desperate souls who got up the nerve to heckle Arsene Wenger at the club’s Annual General Meeting but people who have genuine stoicism and vision and quite like the idea of being led towards a better world, one which rewards a degree of idealism and an understanding of the difference between right and wrong.

Wenger didn’t quite put it this way yesterday when he rose to his feet at what was generally seen as another critical point in his extraordinary career but that was his drift — and, in not the least surprising development of what was supposed to be a tumultuous day, he received a standing ovation.

He got that, at least it is pretty to believe, because if he has not won a trophy for seven years — and if it is six since he missed out on what would have been such a natural climax to one of the most glorious passages of a great club’s history in the Champions League Final at the Stade de France — he continues to represent something very fine, and very rare, in today’s game.

He believes that a football club should generate their own wealth, live on it and in a perfect world win on it, and not either put itself in hock — e.g. Manchester United — or tout for huge windfalls from such random sources as mineral rich oligarchs or sheikhs, e.g. Chelsea and Manchester City, the latter having earlier dallied for some time with a Thai politician who, despite apparently being an excellent companion over 18 holes, from time to time found himself accused of grave offences against humanity.

You may say that among the contenders for power at Arsenal, the American sports entrepreneur and chief shareholder Stan Kroenke and the Uzbek oligarch Alisher Usmanov are not utterly outstanding examples of philanthropy, the latter having racked up a fortune of around £14billion in a society where doctors and teachers were known to wait months for their meagre salaries, but nevertheless the club do operate on the basis that one day, in a saner world, it will be the one which operates in a seamless and successful future.

Chief executive Ivan Gazidis ran a gauntlet of scorn yesterday when he declared that the Arsenal faithful may have to wait just two years before the benefits of the Financial Fair Play regulations put them back in the forefront of winning clubs but it was a promise that surely had some foundation in reality.

Wenger, inevitably, made the point most eloquently when he said: “My job is to deliver a team with the resources we have and I have never complained about that. I want a club paying players from its own resources and there is no shame in that. It is important that we keep our strength and stay united for the good of Arsenal.”
He said the defeats by Norwich and Schalke were hard to explain but assured the shareholders that the team had a fantastic focus and attitude and that with injured players returning to action — most notably the inspiring Jack Wilshere — the most important challenge of maintaining a constant presence in the Champions League was once again within the club’s grasp.

It was not as if Arsenal were down among the dead men. They were still exhibiting vital signs, they still boasted of a quality currently best expressed by the extraordinary Santi Cazorla, and if the faith was kept there might just be a sweet, even heavenly reward.

Yes, it may be a reach. It may require Arsenal fans to grit their teeth yet again, this time at the re-emergence of Chelsea, not withstanding their ambush by an impressive young Ukrainian team in Donetsk, as a seriously competitive team imbued with new levels of skill and inspiration provided by such expensive imports as Oscar and Eden Hazard.

Arsenal’s following is being asked to forfeit the instant gratifications of big-money football commerce. It has to agree that when a Samir Nasri or a Robin van Persie, even a Bacary Sagna, say their loyalty may come only at an unacceptable price, a stand has to be made if the future is to be secured truly. This, in the current climate of English football, is no doubt a huge requirement. It is a plea for some vision beyond the trenches, some idea of how both Arsenal and the wider world of football can achieve not just a degree of stability but also, who knows, a degree of competitive justice.

These, surely, are unusual demands to make on the modern football fan. He has grown up, after all, in a world where spending money, borrowed money, donated money, money that may not always be on tap, has become the prerequisite of success.

Doggedly, with the fierce eyes of a natural-born seer, Wenger continues to insist there is another way, another dream. Some of course say that he is mad. Maybe so, but then who in football can so easily look into the mirror before making such a charge?

Sorry waffi but that's a Mitt Romney like flip flop on your part.

Recall what you said all summer i.e money was there, i.e you would cease to defend clubs frugal policies should they fail to invest said money in the summer of 2012.

Again no Gooner is asking for Messi or Ronaldo, simple club can and should invest what we have to improve our chances...PERIOD!!!!!

[Coach]

@Wanajo, all one needs to know re: FFP, is that it is, from a economic perspective, as right wing as Andrei Kanchelskis. It serves to preserve the status quo and they alone.

[Gooner1]

Now Lucifer is now trying to deceive, abeg....what money has he pumped into the club for player purchases?

Stan Kroenke is ‘majorly disappointed’ by Arsenal’s recent performances and ‘isn’t keen’ on investing more of his money in the club until they start winning silverware, a source close to the American billionaire has claimed.
Kroenke, who is Arsenal’s controlling shareholder, has been in London this week as his NFL side the St Louis Rams play the New England Patriots at Wembley Stadium today.
The 65-year-old attended an Arsenal game for the fourth time since his takeover 17 months ago during yesterday’s 1-0 win over QPR. He was accompanied by his son, Josh, while various high-profile friends of Kroenke’s were also invited into chief commercial officer Tom Fox’s executive box.
“We (Kroenke Sports Enterprises) have a record of reinvestment in our other clubs, and it’s there for everyone to see”, Kroenke insisted at last week’s Arsenal AGM.
Kroenke himself, nicknamed ‘Silent Stan’ for his reluctance to talk with the media, has made clear of his disappointment in the Gunners’ recent form and told a friend he ’could not understand’ how they lost two games in a row to Norwich and Schalke last week.
Recent accounts at Emirates Stadium showed that Arsene Wenger’s side have around £70m swilling around in their transfer pot, while star striker Robin van Persie was sold to Premier League rivals Manchester United in the summer.


Read more: http://goonertalk.com/2012/10/28/kroenk ... z2Ad4T8vFP

[kajifu]

Haba what is this thread about again?