Re: AKPAN UDOH

[wale1974]

Sad and pitiful thread. This is demeaning and certainly not the mindset that CE should enthuse. What can be done to discourage crap like this?

I finished my secondary school at 14+. We had gifted students playing for school in Form 2 and one of them played in the U17 WC winning squad of 1985. He was that good.

Are you saying we actually took a true under 17 to China 85? Waiting for your answer................Thread carefully because most of us are still friends with a few players on that squad.

Yes I am saying we took a true under 17 to China 85

Sure and you still believe in Santa too abi?

[wale1974]

Sad and pitiful thread. This is demeaning and certainly not the mindset that CE should enthuse. What can be done to discourage crap like this?

I finished my secondary school at 14+. We had gifted students playing for school in Form 2 and one of them played in the U17 WC winning squad of 1985. He was that good.

Are you saying we actually took a true under 17 to China 85? Waiting for your answer................Thread carefully because most of us are still friends with a few players on that squad.

Yes I am saying we took a true under 17 to China 85

Guy you are on your own with that statement oh.

You dey mind that guy..........Even the players on that team go slap him for saying that rubbish.

[wale1974]

Yep am sure you have proof that they were all not under 17. I'm waiting to see it. But i do understand that this is the point the essay writting normally starts.

Please if you are seeking attention stop that right away, would you like to speak on the phone to a few players on that team?

What kind rubbish is this man saying on here

[GIN]

Yep am sure you have proof that they were all not under 17. I'm waiting to see it. But i do understand that this is the point the essay writting normally starts.

Please if you are seeking attention stop that right away, would you like to speak on the phone to a few players on that team?

What kind rubbish is this man saying on here

The man knows what he is talking about when it comes to Baldwin Bazuaye who completed form 5 during the 86/87 school year and made his debut with bendel insurance in 1988.

[Al B Sure]

GIN you are too quick let them carry on for a little bit more.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

GIN you are too quick let them carry on for a little bit more.

abi o? All naijas na crooks now, no be so?

[1naija]

GIN you are too quick let them carry on for a little bit more.

abi o? All naijas na crooks now, no be so?

I don't know about being crooks but you have to wonder how someone like yemiobrassier has surved for 45 years (not counting the 32 years he spent at home before his father finally said enough was enough and kicked him out) without any real job.

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

[Igugu]

Are you telling me that you have not heard of kids starting school much earlier than 6 in Nigeria? Is that really strange to you? I started primary school at the age of 4. And no, i'm not saying that to imply that is what Akpan did, but it does happen more often than you think. You keep saying the year that he started primary school was 2005. How do you know this for a fact? If we take a count of folks here on CE who started before 6, i bet it will be more than 20%. Numerous people on this thread have also told you they started earlier than 6, but it does not seems to fit the narratives that you have for this boy. The facts as we know it are:

1) Akpan was in ss2 last year (2014)
2) By august of 2015, he would have finished his secondary school program
3) Is it possible for one to finish school at 16? Yes!
4) 1999 to 2015 = 16

Now it gets even better, especially for those asking for 'evidence' and telling us how they, their sister and cousins brother went to primary school straight from the womb!


WORLD BANK data shows the starting age for primary school the world over.

In Nigeria, between 2001 and 2005, the starting age for Nigerian primary school is 6 years.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.PRM.AGES?page=2

Udoh was born in 1999. His start year for primary school is thus 2005.

If he was 6yrs in 2005, he thus finished primary school in 2011 at 12yrs old.

How can he then be in SS2 in 2014?

No its not strange, but that is not the normal pattern.

The normal completion age for secondary school based on the 6-3-3-4 is the 16-17 range, but there are exceptions.

What is however laughable is how every age apologist on CE started primary school straight from the womb!!!!


The chronology doesn't add up.

There is no rational explanation for his being in SS2 in 2014, based on the chronology published.

There is a little thing in Nigeria called jumping classes. Your hypothesis has been judged to have a flaw. Learn from it and try another hypothesis. IF you can find genuine proof that those boys are overaged, I will personally support you. If you cant and keep on attacking people with a faceless moniker .. you are on your own and should be sued for libel.

Yes there is jumping classes in Nigeria. But that is the exception, not the norm.

Nobody will or can sue me for libel, so quit making things up!

I have not said Udoh is overaged. I have only said that the chronology that places him in SS2 in 2014 does not add up.

Really. If Akpan Udoh was to get this thread and he had a good advisor, you really think you wouldnt be in trouble especially if it could be shown that your unproven statements have the chance of endangering his livelihood.[/quote]


There you go! Now you are talking. Only heavy law suit will teach these soft headed bad-belles in this forum a lesson. I hope Akpan does and some good lawyer picks this up. If this were to happen in US, na big money Akpan don bank be dat! Weda you pay am for dis life or the next one to come.

[lagos777]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

You don't need to vouch for them but the scientific evidence does point ot the fact that they are at least in that age grouping, if not exact. Bone fusion carries more weight with me than anything anyone posts on CE or any documents they show up with from Ajegunle. Also I think it has more direct impact on future physical development than the actual chronological ages of the players.
A 14yr with fused bones is not gonna grow any more whereas a 19yr with without is still growing.
When I would be concerned is if we are found to be actually falsifying the MRI results, which I don't believe is the case.

[metalalloy]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

And i dont think anyone ITT asking for the benefit of the doubt will stick their lives on it either. The reason for "attacking" the messenger is because the OP is based off innuendo which were attempted to be refuted by personal anecdotes of people ITT and the OP dismissed those outright. Other data that goes against his world bank link is met with silence. THAT is the reason why people "attack" messages or whatever this thread is presumed to be.

Adokie presented HARD evidence with pictures. None of you have presented a modicum of evidence beyond innuendos and speculation. It is not too much to ask for something that shoes that these set of kids are something other than what they claim to be.

[wanaj0]

Yemster, he was attacked because he LIED just to prove a non existing point.

Udoh is not on CE so who is he asking the question? Why not conduct investigation before trying to destroy the image of a teenager?

Yes I cannot vouch for you but it will be irresponsible of me to start to question yoyr integrity without proof and in a place where you are not available to defend yourself.

Have cheated before? Yes. Same thing with Mexico, Brazil etc! Not sure everyone from that country is considered a cheat like we are doing now.

If you have evidence of any falsification of age, bring it out! Dont however hide under anonymity to malign people's character.

[Cristao II]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

TY, All that has been said is that txj's hypothesis is flawed. He can make a flawed hypothesis the foundation for a fact. He has even admitted making an error in part.

IKman provided more than enough details. Adokie did and so did KoC. What txj has done is put forward a 'fact' and the foundation of that 'fact' was found to be faulty.

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

TY, All that has been said is that txj's hypothesis is flawed. He can make a flawed hypothesis the foundation for a fact. He has even admitted making an error in part.

IKman provided more than enough details. Adokie did and so did KoC. What txj has done is put forward a 'fact' and the foundation of that 'fact' was found to be faulty.

Those three guys provided evidence cos they categorically stated that the kids (at least one in particular) was overage. txj hasn't claimed this kid is overage. He was asking a question about something that didn't add up. Yes most of the explanations are very plausible but aren't the standard norm.

What I'm saying is, based on our antecedents, it's something worth verifying by the authorities just to be sure regardless
of txj's motives.

And FYI even if he is a year older, he is still overage and thus cheating even if it is a significant improvement on past cheating. The real victims are the genuine u17s being denied an opportunity.

[theYemster]

Yemster, he was attacked because he LIED just to prove a non existing point.

Udoh is not on CE so who is he asking the question? Why not conduct investigation before trying to destroy the image of a teenager?

Yes I cannot vouch for you but it will be irresponsible of me to start to question yoyr integrity without proof and in a place where you are not available to defend yourself.

Have cheated before? Yes. Same thing with Mexico, Brazil etc! Not sure everyone from that country is considered a cheat like we are doing now.

If you have evidence of any falsification of age, bring it out! Dont however hide under anonymity to malign people's character.

I haven't gone through the entire thread. Where did he lie?

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

And i dont think anyone ITT asking for the benefit of the doubt will stick their lives on it either. The reason for "attacking" the messenger is because the OP is based off innuendo which were attempted to be refuted by personal anecdotes of people ITT and the OP dismissed those outright. Other data that goes against his world bank link is met with silence. THAT is the reason why people "attack" messages or whatever this thread is presumed to be.

Adokie presented HARD evidence with pictures. None of you have presented a modicum of evidence beyond innuendos and speculation. It is not too much to ask for something that shoes that these set of kids are something other than what they claim to be.

That's where I disagree with you. Unfortunately for them I don't believe these players deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not on this, and not just yet. Until we are totally rid of this scourge. It's not of their doing but of those before them. I'm not saying we should accuse them but any potential discrepancy should be properly investigated. The wish of damage to our reputation is far greater and important than the sensitivities of any of these kids that's might feel offended that they aren't taken at their word...for now.

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

You don't need to vouch for them but the scientific evidence does point ot the fact that they are at least in that age grouping, if not exact. Bone fusion carries more weight with me than anything anyone posts on CE or any documents they show up with from Ajegunle. Also I think it has more direct impact on future physical development than the actual chronological ages of the players.
A 14yr with fused bones is not gonna grow any more whereas a 19yr with without is still growing.
When I would be concerned is if we are found to be actually falsifying the MRI results, which I don't believe is the case.

Being in the age grouping isn't being within the age limit.

All I'm saying is that it deserves further examination just to be sure. Mu guy this is a country where just about anything can be forged so I'm not as confident about any MRI results. Do we know the procedure for conducting the tests? Are you sure that the actual player is the one tested? I dunno the answer I'm just asking.

What I do know is I know for sure you can get just about anything in this country for the right price. Why should MRI results be any different?

My point is for now we can't afford to give the benefit of the doubt. We don't deserve it and haven't earned the right to be so confident just yet. For now we should still be in a cautious skepticism mode.

[Cristao II]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

TY, All that has been said is that txj's hypothesis is flawed. He can make a flawed hypothesis the foundation for a fact. He has even admitted making an error in part.

IKman provided more than enough details. Adokie did and so did KoC. What txj has done is put forward a 'fact' and the foundation of that 'fact' was found to be faulty.

Those three guys provided evidence cos they categorically stated that the kids (at least one in particular) was overage. txj hasn't claimed this kid is overage. He was asking a question about something that didn't add up. Yes most of the explanations are very plausible but aren't the standard norm.

What I'm saying is, based on our antecedents, it's something worth verifying by the authorities just to be sure regardless
of txj's motives.

And FYI even if he is a year older, he is still overage and thus cheating even if it is a significant improvement on past cheating. The real victims are the genuine u17s being denied an opportunity.

TY, read the thread from the beginning o!

[aruako1]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

He raised a point and I believe that the responses have adequately addressed his concerns. I will not accept information that has a negative effect on a person's reputation without proof. Hence I did not accept Adokiye's claims until he produced sufficient evidence. If Txj provides sufficient evidence many will agree with him. We know that there is cheating but we do not know that Akpan Udog cheated. In fact the available information suggests that he did not cheat.

[Gotti]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

Sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with the thread...
TXJ raised an issue based on certain predicate, and many have addressed the predicate.

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

He raised a point and I believe that the responses have adequately addressed his concerns. I will not accept information that has a negative effect on a person's reputation without proof. Hence I did not accept Adokiye's claims until he produced sufficient evidence. If Txj provides sufficient evidence many will agree with him. We know that there is cheating but we do not know that Akpan Udog cheated. In fact the available information suggests that he did not cheat.

But that's the point I am trying to make. We know there is rampant age cheating and it still goes on hence why it should be checked out just to be sure. txj provided a legit reason regarding the timeline. It doesn't prove three kid is overage but it should warrant a cross checking.

It's not the same as claiming the kid is overage which is what Adokie did. For that you require actual proof more concrete than what txj provided.

For those who think we've crossed that age cheating hurdle, I'm sorry we haven't. It's not just in footy, civil servants and other officials lie about their age so they can stay longer before retirement. I know of a chose friend who recently died and had his fake/younger DOB on his obituary so that his employers won't know he falsified it when he got employed.

We have no choice but to always remain skeptical until further notice. It's even for these kids benefit as well as ours.

[Gotti]

That's where I disagree with you. Unfortunately for them I don't believe these players deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not on this, and not just yet. Until we are totally rid of this scourge. It's not of their doing but of those before them. I'm not saying we should accuse them but any potential discrepancy should be properly investigated. The wish of damage to our reputation is far greater and important than the sensitivities of any of these kids that's might feel offended that they aren't taken at their word...for now.

Again, sorry but this thread is not about "these" players but about ONE player...
Reality is that characterizations that may be true in the general are not necessarily so in the particular.

For example, while it may be true that many Nigerians are 4-19ers, certificate forgers and ID thieves...
If someone posits that YEMSTER is all of those, you bet it would make sense to seek AFFIRMATIVE evidence thereof.

[theYemster]

This thread is good example of why Nigeria is a mess.

Someone raised a legitimate point about an issue that's plagued us for decades. Even if the boy does proves to be within the age limit, it's still a valid question txj asked. Whether we like it or not, due to our history, many including myself are always going to be skeptical until we develop a more efficient record keeping process. This is a question where a careful investigation oughta be carried out quietly just to be sure rather than attack the messenger. It's the only way we will completely rid ourselves of this plague. This has nothing to do with the Mexicans or other outsiders for that matter. It is for our own benefit and for the benefit of legit under 17 players who would be denied a chance should an overage player slip through the cracks.

The reaction here reminds me of how CE reacted to Adokie and Ikwereman outing the 2007?? squad. And they ended up being vindicated. Ikman I believe has eventually disengaged from CE since then.

That said personally speaking I can't vouch for any of these players. This doesn't mean I think they're overage. No not at all. I'm saying I just don't know and I won't stake my life on it. For the foreseeable future I will subconsciously adopt this mindset. It is what it is.

Sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with the thread...
TXJ raised an issue based on certain predicate, and many have addressed the predicate.

Yes but my point is the personal attack as to why he should even bring it up. Like how dare he.

It was a legitimate issue he raised.