Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

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bushboy
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by bushboy »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
Nacho is purely left footed, and that left foot is definitely magical. But "best finisher" is a stretch. If he were that good, I promise you he wouldn't be in the 2nd division right now. Many teams need a good "finisher" and none have come for Nacho. Is he even one of the leading scorers in the championship? I doubt it.

As a striker, he is the 4th best "finisher" we have. But with purely shooting accuracy using ONE foot. I agree, he's the most precise shooter we have.
Bushboy's bushmen : 1.Isaac Success 2. Terem Moffi 3. Victor Boniface 4. Samuel Omorodion. 5. Samson Tijani. 6. Rafiu Durosinmi.
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.


Still haven't answered the question!!!

What do you mean shooting accuracy? How do you measure that?
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by txj »

bushboy wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:09 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm


Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
Nacho is purely left footed, and that left foot is definitely magical. But "best finisher" is a stretch. If he were that good, I promise you he wouldn't be in the 2nd division right now. Many teams need a good "finisher" and none have come for Nacho. Is he even one of the leading scorers in the championship? I doubt it.

As a striker, he is the 4th best "finisher" we have. But with purely shooting accuracy using ONE foot. I agree, he's the most precise shooter we have.


Shooting accuracy using one foot?
What does that mean?
What metrics is this and what is it ultimately measuring?
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by onovo »

Babalawo wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:54 pm Division 2 player or not! Nacho starts in the SE ahead of Chukwueze, full stop!
Never ! He has to justify it ! Let him play for a decent club in a decent league. The Super Eagles lost its spark/direction when backwater league players where used to play the world cup in 2002. That act alone done by Onigbinde/NFF ushered in an era where players from leagues in Ukraine, Greece, Isreal, Russia, Norway and other back water leagues had a grip of our once darling eagles. It became a norm at a time that a backwater league player is considered a super eagles material. The quality of our players dropped as a result. If Kele was to be within the U-17/U-20 age category, I would not have an issue with him warming the bench in a division 2 club, as he is considered to still be in the developmental stage of his career. After all, Boniface/Simon/Lookman/Orban/Zaidu/Mikel/etc. all played in the backwater leagues at the young stage of their career. But for someone like him who should be in his prime, warming the bench in a division 2 club, I have all the issue with it ! No vex, nah Super Eagles matter we dey talk so ! Our Kele needs to step up !
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by nzeogwu »

A smart coach can accommodate Nacho and Iwobi just as Bonfrere and CHUKWU accommodated Okocha, Kanu, Odemwingie, Utaka and Aghahowa.


In 1996, Oruma, Babangida, Kanu, Okocha, Amunike and Amokachi were also played. I truly believe in a 3/5/2 variant.

What do we have to lose? Is that not what Argentina has done to Naija in just about alevery World Cup? 3/4/3. Yes, we could have beaten them and yes it sacrifices balance but if we can play Ndidi and Iwobi, drop Lookman and Samu, Nacho should be the free lance wide man.

Boniface and Osimhen or either of their deputies (Awoniyi and Moffi) should be the twin strike force.

It’s time to make other teams adjust to our style. Why should we have to be balanced? Why not terrorize everyone and make them respect us? Why not score and devastate everyone and then adjust to a more conservative set up afterwards.

It worked before and due to the counter attacking transitional style that we played. I don’t care if it is 2023 or 2024, Naija has the firepower to destroy anyone. Period.

All we need is a good goalie. And let’s be very clear, this is the best collection of Eagles personnel ever. 1994, 1996 and 2013 are not even close.
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by nzeogwu »

A smart coach can accommodate Nacho and Iwobi just as Bonfrere and CHUKWU accommodated Okocha, Kanu, Odemwingie, Utaka and Aghahowa.


In 1996, Oruma, Babangida, Kanu, Okocha, Amunike and Amokachi were also played. I truly believe in a 3/5/2 variant.

What do we have to lose? Is that not what Argentina has done to Naija in just about alevery World Cup? 3/4/3. Yes, we could have beaten them and yes it sacrifices balance but if we can play Ndidi and Iwobi, drop Lookman and Samu, Nacho should be the free lance wide man.

Boniface and Osimhen or either of their deputies (Awoniyi and Moffi) should be the twin strike force.

It’s time to make other teams adjust to our style. Why should we have to be balanced? Why not terrorize everyone and make them respect us? Why not score and devastate everyone and then adjust to a more conservative set up afterwards.

It worked before and due to the counter attacking transitional style that we played. I don’t care if it is 2023 or 2024, Naija has the firepower to destroy anyone. Period.

All we need is a good goalie. And let’s be very clear, this is the best collection of Eagles personnel ever. 1994, 1996 and 2013 are not even close.
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by nzeogwu »

A smart coach can accommodate Nacho and Iwobi just as Bonfrere and CHUKWU accommodated Okocha, Kanu, Odemwingie, Utaka and Aghahowa.


In 1996, Oruma, Babangida, Kanu, Okocha, Amunike and Amokachi were also played. I truly believe in a 3/5/2 variant.

What do we have to lose? Is that not what Argentina has done to Naija in just about alevery World Cup? 3/4/3. Yes, we could have beaten them and yes it sacrifices balance but if we can play Ndidi and Iwobi, drop Lookman and Samu, Nacho should be the free lance wide man.

Boniface and Osimhen or either of their deputies (Awoniyi and Moffi) should be the twin strike force.

It’s time to make other teams adjust to our style. Why should we have to be balanced? Why not terrorize everyone and make them respect us? Why not score and devastate everyone and then adjust to a more conservative set up afterwards.

It worked before and due to the counter attacking transitional style that we played. I don’t care if it is 2023 or 2024, Naija has the firepower to destroy anyone. Period.

All we need is a good goalie. And let’s be very clear, this is the best collection of Eagles personnel ever. 1994, 1996 and 2013 are not even close.
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Sunset »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
You got time to be entertaining these stupid questions but it seems clear some people want to be dishonest with themselves on such a manner for whatever reason. Simply put if he's not the best finisher in the team then who is? Because he has a lot of deficiencies in his game but finishing is what he excels in
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Scipio Africanus »

nzeogwu wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:46 am A smart coach can accommodate Nacho and Iwobi just as Bonfrere and CHUKWU accommodated Okocha, Kanu, Odemwingie, Utaka and Aghahowa.


In 1996, Oruma, Babangida, Kanu, Okocha, Amunike and Amokachi were also played. I truly believe in a 3/5/2 variant.

What do we have to lose? Is that not what Argentina has done to Naija in just about alevery World Cup? 3/4/3. Yes, we could have beaten them and yes it sacrifices balance but if we can play Ndidi and Iwobi, drop Lookman and Samu, Nacho should be the free lance wide man.

Boniface and Osimhen or either of their deputies (Awoniyi and Moffi) should be the twin strike force.

It’s time to make other teams adjust to our style. Why should we have to be balanced? Why not terrorize everyone and make them respect us? Why not score and devastate everyone and then adjust to a more conservative set up afterwards.

It worked before and due to the counter attacking transitional style that we played. I don’t care if it is 2023 or 2024, Naija has the firepower to destroy anyone. Period.

All we need is a good goalie. And let’s be very clear, this is the best collection of Eagles personnel ever. 1994, 1996 and 2013 are not even close.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I like your way of thinking. In fact I like it very much!

Wha choo looking at?!
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:54 am
vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm


Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
You got time to be entertaining these stupid questions but it seems clear some people want to be dishonest with themselves on such a manner for whatever reason. Simply put if he's not the best finisher in the team then who is? Because he has a lot of deficiencies in his game but finishing is what he excels in


The best finisher in any team is the one who has finished the most chances and therefore scored the most goals.

Anything else is mere frivolity
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Coach »

@Tx, statisticians nowadays are trying to metricate everything and anything. The xG and one’s performance against it is arguably the closest one can get to an assessment of chance conversion (finishing) that considers chance quality.
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by txj »

Coach wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:10 pm @Tx, statisticians nowadays are trying to metricate everything and anything. The xG and one’s performance against it is arguably the closest one can get to an assessment of chance conversion (finishing) that considers chance quality.


I know about xG quite well.

But do you and the statisticians know anything about xGl?

Chance conversion efficiency based on 1-foot? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Dammy »

Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
Your head no correct. Learn to respect other people’s opinions. You don’t have monopoly of knowledge.

I will say it again, Nacho is our best finisher. His left foot is as good as any other player in world football. Nacho would have buried some of the chances that fell to Osimhen against Ghana.


It’s still painful whenever I remember how Eguavoen threw the likes of Musa, Sadiq and Ighalo into the fray and left the only player, who could have got a goal out of nothing, Nacho, on the bench when we were looking for the decisive goal against Ghana in Abuja
I am happy
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Sunset »

txj wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:19 am
Sunset wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:54 am
vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pm
It shouldn’t be a debate but here you are trying to complicate simple things, nobody said he’s a world class striker but Nacho is our best finisher.


Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
You got time to be entertaining these stupid questions but it seems clear some people want to be dishonest with themselves on such a manner for whatever reason. Simply put if he's not the best finisher in the team then who is? Because he has a lot of deficiencies in his game but finishing is what he excels in


The best finisher in any team is the one who has finished the most chances and therefore scored the most goals.

Anything else is mere frivolity
And as I said based on that logic Ahmed Musa is Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history. Well done :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:40 pm
txj wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:19 am
Sunset wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:54 am
vancity eagle wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:47 pm
Sunset wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:57 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:41 pm



Best finisher based on what? On what exactly?

Has he scored more goals in the SE in the last 6 months?
1 year?
Going by that logic Ahmed Musa must be Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history :clap: :clap: :clap:


You still have not answered the question.

Based on what is he the best finisher?
In terms of shooting technique and placement, accuracy etc. Nobody even comes close.

And I'm not a big fan of Nacho, but the truth is the truth.
You got time to be entertaining these stupid questions but it seems clear some people want to be dishonest with themselves on such a manner for whatever reason. Simply put if he's not the best finisher in the team then who is? Because he has a lot of deficiencies in his game but finishing is what he excels in


The best finisher in any team is the one who has finished the most chances and therefore scored the most goals.

Anything else is mere frivolity
And as I said based on that logic Ahmed Musa is Nigeria's Greatest ever finisher in World Cup history. Well done :clap: :clap: :clap:


If the stats support it, then he is! Its that simple
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Dammy »

Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
Your head no correct. Learn to respect other people’s opinions. You don’t have monopoly of knowledge.

I will say it again, Nacho is our best finisher. His left foot is as good as any other player in world football. Nacho would have buried some of the chances that fell to Osimhen against Ghana.


It’s still painful whenever I remember how Eguavoen threw the likes of Musa, Sadiq and Ighalo into the fray and left the only player, who could have got a goal out of nothing, Nacho, on the bench when we were looking for the decisive goal against Ghana in Abuja
I am happy
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Re: Nacho must be given a free role around the 18 if we want to score goals

Post by Bigpokey24 »

txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:53 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:39 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:01 am The problem with Nacho is where do you play him and for how long? He is not a 90 minutes player and he slows down the game too often compared to our other wide players.

But he is our best finisher. Osimhen and Boniface can be quite wasteful though they get in scoring positions more than Nacho. The coach has some difficult decisions to make.

Based on what?

Peeps just makes statements from their backsides...

You have a world class striker in Osimhen and you are comparing him to a player who is a benchwarmer in the English championship!

what is wrong with you people!!!
Your head no correct. Learn to respect other people’s opinions. You don’t have monopoly of knowledge.

I will say it again, Nacho is our best finisher. His left foot is as good as any other player in world football. Nacho would have buried some of the chances that fell to Osimhen against Ghana.


I simply asked a question which so far nobody has answered. .

Based on what is he the best finisher?
who has more goals compared to kele Wearing green white green
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