SE and Foreign Born Players

[Bigpokey24]

i do not get this , Onyeka, Yusuf, Nwabali, Our Osimhen, Iwobi, Sanusi, Simon Moses were all born in Nigeria.

Aribo , Ekong, Lookman, Calvin, Ajayi( Who time after time Damunk abuses on these forums) Aina were born from Nigerian Parents . No one on this forum says both recruiting formats cannot work. The issue here is we neglected scouting . The previous scout who lived in London only chose to scout most of the time at Leyton Orient, we all heard him speak on a zoom call a while back.
We all saw the football match vs Ghana in Abuja and we all know how that ended. Okoye had a blunder vs Tunisia ( mind you we played with 10 men) Uzoho cost us the WC birth.

Instead of some of una to focus and concentrate on the the last two games, some of you are here early shouting . We've been to the last four 16 times out of 19 AFCON appearances .

Everyone is excited about the new determination and efforts the SE have added to their games, we know Our Osimhen, Onyeka, Nwabali , Bassey , Aina , Lookman, Simon etc have all put in great shifts .

Once again no one said we cannot have both, however football fans are all fickle .

[packerland]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

If the likes of Finidi can’t recommend good local players to him then maybe he needs to share some of the blame. Rumours are that Ojo is in the team not because he’s the best NPL goal keeper but because of his affiliation with Finidi at Enyimba.

[wanaj0]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

If the likes of Finidi can’t recommend good local players to him then maybe he needs to share some of the blame. Rumours are that Ojo is in the team not because he’s the best NPL goal keeper but because of his affiliation with Finidi at Enyimba.

Blame can go round. Personally, just give everyone EQUAL opportunity to compete. The idea that we need to BEG some players while others have to BEG to be even considered is not good. Made worse when we start to BEG players that are not significantly different from the ones we have

[packerland]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

If the likes of Finidi can’t recommend good local players to him then maybe he needs to share some of the blame. Rumours are that Ojo is in the team not because he’s the best NPL goal keeper but because of his affiliation with Finidi at Enyimba.

Blame can go round. Personally, just give everyone EQUAL opportunity to compete. The idea that we need to BEG some players while others have to BEG to be even considered is not good. Made worse when we start to BEG players that are not significantly different from the ones we have

Stop using the word beg. I prefer recruit. Only poor Nigerians beg. NFF officials are proud men and they’re not going out there to beg. Instead they will boast. Maybe Saka would be playing for us had Pinnick begged his people (I’m clearly joking).

[Coach]

@Tbite, this is idealistic more than anything else. Once upon a time, long before the advent of global powerhouses and multinational involvement, football was the sport of the brutish underclass. A poor man's game. Today, it is far removed from its origin. Such has been the global growth of the sport, all but one of the atlas' countries has a recognised mens national team. Professionals are found from all social strata and with the cow having been fattened sufficiently, it is expanding the middle class (from a household income perspective) in a heartbeat.

To address the intricacies of your argument, firstly, the term footballing migrant, implies what exactly? Someone who moves from one country to another to play football? Is a particular socioeconomic background prerequisite for the term's employment? What is the impetus behind their migration? Is it the pursuit of a playing field or a source of income through their chosen profession? One would argue, a football migrant is no different to a medical workforce migrant, who in turn (at base level) is no different to those who migrate in short skirts and low cut tops to Las Ramblas. All move for want of money, optimised earning potential and pursuit of better than what they have. All are economic migrants, any other nomenclature is semantics.

The charge laid at the foot of the migrating middle class, who, for want of simplification, are equally economic migrants, is misplaced. If middle class existence in Nigeria was comparable to middle class existence beyond, would they be hop, skipping and jumping in droves to escape it? As polarised as the existences of the middle and lower classes are in Nigeria, both seek an escape route, some courtesy of BA, others less privileged via underground rail roads. There comes a point when even the most ardent idealist must lend a hint of reality to their romanticism. If the water is leaking from the ceiling, it matters not whether its hot or cold water, the issue is obvious, a tap has been left running and the plug holes are blocked. If, in this instance, Nigeria doesn't address its myriad shortcomings, the drip will coalesce to a puddle and eventually a full sized olympic swimming pool in the kitchen downstairs.

The insinuation that middle class national selection has economic ramifications in excess of diaspora remittances would be more credible with statistical confirmation rather than conjecture. How much is taken from the economy? Is the assumption that every Iwobi denies a local league player a stage on which to entice their audience and propagandise their suitability for economic, sorry, footballing migration?

Saudi Arabia's expansion into the footballing arena is an easy example of the expenditure required to establish an entry level brand. Look at the Chinese experiment, the commitment of the USA to be more than a bunch of Lalases and Hacksaw Jim Duggans. The 1990s saw Nigeria make a global impact on the football pitch, Olympic gold and memorable moments at the 1994 Mundial, fast forward 30 years, has the investment and development in sports infrastructure alone been comparable to other new starters? Look at brand MLS, USMNT since the same 1994, whilst they remain extravagantly useless, the branding puts many others to shame. What is the Nigerian model? Or is it's absence the curse of the diaspora too?

[Damunk]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

Yaaaawwwwwwn!
When Nigerian ‘keepers are invited (as they always are), you people come up with the same tired excuse: “they are not the best in the NPFL, yadayadayada…”
From Agbim to Ezenwa to Afelokhai, Thomas, Bankole…..always the same story.

Equal opportunity is important, but that does not imply that quality needs to be compromised just so that everybody is represented. Finidi manages a local NPFL side. He must know any local keeper worth checking out more than the sentimental ITKs on this forum.
After all, he is supposed to be the next local coach in line to take over the SE.

[wanaj0]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

Yaaaawwwwwwn!
When Nigerian ‘keepers are invited (as they always are), you people come up with the same tired excuse: “they are not the best in the NPFL, yadayadayada…”
From Agbim to Ezenwa to Afelokhai, Thomas, Bankole…..always the same story.

Equal opportunity is important, but that does not imply that quality needs to be compromised just so that everybody is represented. Finidi manages a local NPFL side. He must know any local keeper worth checking out more than the sentimental ITKs on this forum.
After all, he is supposed to be the next local coach in line to take over the SE.

I don't know the YOU PEOPLE but my point is clear. Give opportunity irrespective of where they are born, live or play.

That Nwabali was never given opportunity until now says a lot. Even when he played against Mexico he was still not deemed good enough even to be invited to camp

Yes Finidi is an ASSISTANT coach. He does not make the decision. Those with the final decision should not use place of birth or residency to determine who is good enough for the SE.

[Damunk]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

If the likes of Finidi can’t recommend good local players to him then maybe he needs to share some of the blame. Rumours are that Ojo is in the team not because he’s the best NPL goal keeper but because of his affiliation with Finidi at Enyimba.

Blame can go round. Personally, just give everyone EQUAL opportunity to compete. The idea that we need to BEG some players while others have to BEG to be even considered is not good. Made worse when we start to BEG players that are not significantly different from the ones we have

Stop using the word beg. I prefer recruit. Only poor Nigerians beg. NFF officials are proud men and they’re not going out there to beg. Instead they will boast. Maybe Saka would be playing for us had Pinnick begged his people (I’m clearly joking).

The ridiculous word is used deliberately to discredit the players that decline and the whole recruitment process in general.
How would it be different from the way clubsides approach and try and recruit players that have options every half season?
They beg?
They’re just being disingenuous and we know those that use the silly term, when, for whom and why.

[fabio]

Why is it difficult for some people to accept that everyone eligible, should be given an opportunity.

[Damunk]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

Yaaaawwwwwwn!
When Nigerian ‘keepers are invited (as they always are), you people come up with the same tired excuse: “they are not the best in the NPFL, yadayadayada…”
From Agbim to Ezenwa to Afelokhai, Thomas, Bankole…..always the same story.

Equal opportunity is important, but that does not imply that quality needs to be compromised just so that everybody is represented. Finidi manages a local NPFL side. He must know any local keeper worth checking out more than the sentimental ITKs on this forum.
After all, he is supposed to be the next local coach in line to take over the SE.

I don't know the YOU PEOPLE but my point is clear. Give opportunity irrespective of where they are born, live or play.

That Nwabali was never given opportunity until now says a lot. Even when he played against Mexico he was still not deemed good enough even to be invited to camp

Yes Finidi is an ASSISTANT coach. He does not make the decision. Those with the final decision should not use place of birth or residency to determine who is good enough for the SE.

So you’re saying he’s a figurehead.
If he has no say in the matter of local recruitment as you suggest, then what is he doing there?

And your point about ‘place of birth’ is EXACTLY why I refer to you as ‘YOU PEOPLE’.
No wonder you people are advocating for quota as a panacea for perceived discrimination.

[Damunk]

Why is it difficult for some people to accept that everyone eligible, should be given an opportunity.

Why is it difficult for you to stop erecting strawmen?
You get horse for your yard?

[fabio]

Why is it difficult for some people to accept that everyone eligible, should be given an opportunity.

Why is it difficult for you to stop erecting strawmen?
You get horse for your yard?

Don't remember calling your name

[Damunk]

Why is it difficult for some people to accept that everyone eligible, should be given an opportunity.

Why is it difficult for you to stop erecting strawmen?
You get horse for your yard?

Don't remember calling your name

It’s an open discussion.
You people like to hunt in packs.

[wanaj0]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

Yaaaawwwwwwn!
When Nigerian ‘keepers are invited (as they always are), you people come up with the same tired excuse: “they are not the best in the NPFL, yadayadayada…”
From Agbim to Ezenwa to Afelokhai, Thomas, Bankole…..always the same story.

Equal opportunity is important, but that does not imply that quality needs to be compromised just so that everybody is represented. Finidi manages a local NPFL side. He must know any local keeper worth checking out more than the sentimental ITKs on this forum.
After all, he is supposed to be the next local coach in line to take over the SE.

I don't know the YOU PEOPLE but my point is clear. Give opportunity irrespective of where they are born, live or play.

That Nwabali was never given opportunity until now says a lot. Even when he played against Mexico he was still not deemed good enough even to be invited to camp

Yes Finidi is an ASSISTANT coach. He does not make the decision. Those with the final decision should not use place of birth or residency to determine who is good enough for the SE.

So you’re saying he’s a figurehead.
If he has no say in the matter of local recruitment as you suggest, then what is he doing there?

And your point about ‘place of birth’ is EXACTLY why I refer to you as ‘YOU PEOPLE’.
No wonder you people are advocating for quota as a panacea for perceived discrimination.

He is an assistant. He can offer suggestions but the final decision lies with the principal. That's what he is there to do just like any other assistant

I mentioned place of birth, residency and where they ply their trade but guess you only see the one you want to see.

Again eligible players should be given opportunity to compete on equal grounds. If that is your interpretation of quota so be it!

[sarkin doya]

Over the years, similar to many other African teams, the player composition of SE has evolved. At one time, all the players were born in Nigeria and played locally. By the late nineties, most of the players were born in Nigeria but virtually all were playing overseas.

Fast forward to today. Virtually all the players play overseas by the time they are invited to SE. But a lot more of the players were born overseas.

In the game against Angola, if I'm not mistaken - 6 of the 11 starting lineup were born overseas. Should this trend continue, there may come a time when majority of the SE will consist of players of Nigerian heritage born overseas.

Any thoughts? Is this just a trend consistent with the modern times we live in where migration to Western countries continues and so it is a natural outcome with such a large Nigeria diaspora? How will this affect the local game and local leagues 5yrs from now, 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now?

ps I'm not making any remarks on the SE team at Afcon. I believe all the players were invited on merit - based on the perspective of the coach and NFF. My question is about longer term trends and strategy.

NEED NOT BE ONE OR THE OTHER; CAN BE A WIN-WIN, AND...

Bell - this thread is not about one or the other when choosing the team. Although, maybe the initial question was not posed properly, this thread is meant to raise questions about the implications for future. What are conclusions that can be drawn from the trend? What are the best actions to be taken given the limited resources and $ spent on soccer within Nigeria compared to other countries in Europe?
...it's not very complicated. Any foreign-born person eligible to receive a Nigerian passport (birth, marriage, naturalization, refugee, asylum, etc) should have all the rights of those born in Nigeria to play for the SE.

On the other hand, the authorities in Nigeria must strive to provide the highest level of development for those born in Nigeria.

Then the lucky coach gets to choose from these two vast pools based only on merit. Once the team has been selected, the labels "foreign born" and "locals" go away and each player is referred simply as"Eagle".

What's so complicated about this? My only concern is my lack of faith in the hapless NFF. I'm afraid they will sit back and rely almost entirely on the foreign pool to the detriment of all because for all their talk they don't expect to win the WC one day and are therefore not planning accordingly.

Remember the foreign pool is a FIFA creation and can be changed anytime; not so with local kids.
Bell

[sarkin doya]

@Tbite, this is idealistic more than anything else. Once upon a time, long before the advent of global powerhouses and multinational involvement, football was the sport of the brutish underclass. A poor man's game. Today, it is far removed from its origin. .......

To address the intricacies of your argument, firstly, the term footballing migrant, implies what exactly? .............All move for want of money, optimised earning potential and pursuit of better than what they have. All are economic migrants, any other nomenclature is semantics.

.......

Coach - this is true. However, where is the best place for Nigerian $ to be spent to develop the local game - should more be done for developmental youth soccer and youth leagues? Developing the Local League is tough.

[sarkin doya]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

That is only using one tiny part of the argument to frame the entire thing.

....

Nigeria should be building at least 10 world class academies of the same scale as the Moroccan facility.

Tbite, you raise many good points. I think the point you raise above is the most tangible of the lot. There are many academies of different kinds in Naija. However, the number are insufficient and those that are truly world class are limited.

However, beyond that, i wonder if there is need for a more widespread strategy and action on soccer development from ages 5 to 13? In Europe and North America, such leagues are paid for mostly by the parents. Would such model work in Nigeria? Do parents have the $ resources to do this? Maybe the academy model is better - find the best young ones and then spend the $ and resources for them in academies (something which to some extent is already done)

[Damunk]

All eligible players should be given EQUAL opportunity to compete for shirt irrespective of where they are born or ply their trade.

Unfortunately Pinnick seems to think differently. He is only concerned about those plying their trade abroad (and those born abroad)

While players do improve over time, I doubt we would have considered Nwabali for the SE IF he is still playing in Nigeria. For me not giving players EQUAL opportunity is the issue.

Yaaaawwwwwwn!
When Nigerian ‘keepers are invited (as they always are), you people come up with the same tired excuse: “they are not the best in the NPFL, yadayadayada…”
From Agbim to Ezenwa to Afelokhai, Thomas, Bankole…..always the same story.

Equal opportunity is important, but that does not imply that quality needs to be compromised just so that everybody is represented. Finidi manages a local NPFL side. He must know any local keeper worth checking out more than the sentimental ITKs on this forum.
After all, he is supposed to be the next local coach in line to take over the SE.

I don't know the YOU PEOPLE but my point is clear. Give opportunity irrespective of where they are born, live or play.

That Nwabali was never given opportunity until now says a lot. Even when he played against Mexico he was still not deemed good enough even to be invited to camp

Yes Finidi is an ASSISTANT coach. He does not make the decision. Those with the final decision should not use place of birth or residency to determine who is good enough for the SE.

So you’re saying he’s a figurehead.
If he has no say in the matter of local recruitment as you suggest, then what is he doing there?

And your point about ‘place of birth’ is EXACTLY why I refer to you as ‘YOU PEOPLE’.
No wonder you people are advocating for quota as a panacea for perceived discrimination.

He is an assistant. He can offer suggestions but the final decision lies with the principal. That's what he is there to do just like any other assistant

I mentioned place of birth, residency and where they ply their trade but guess you only see the one you want to see.

Again eligible players should be given opportunity to compete on equal grounds. If that is your interpretation of quota so be it!

So what is your evidence supporting unequal grounds?
Let me guess…
Your NPFL contingent is not making the grade, Abi? Not even being invited.

Just like…uhm…just like Naija-based sprinters were not making our medal-winning relay quartets when we were a sprinting force, until they were able to jappa to US universities, abi?
Just like hurdler Tobi Amusan had to jappa before her raw talent got her to world beater level?

Just like Efe Ajagba a Naija world heavyweight contender and countless legendary Naija boxers before him had to move abroad to reach the level of performance required to compete on the global platform?
Naim you dey vex say dem no invite NPFL players to the elite Super Eagles that I presume you want - and expect - to compete with, and beat the world’s very best?



It’s okay nah.

[Enugu II]

Why is it difficult for some people to accept that everyone eligible, should be given an opportunity.

Fabio

It is difficult for some to comprehend because they have reached a false conclusion as follows:

1. Top players generally emigrate to Europe, in the main.
2. Let's focus recruiting attention to Europe because the best are all in Europe.
3. We can further eliminate work by recruiting from TOP clubs in Europe.

However, the above ignores reality and thus is based on an obvious fallacy. Here is why:

1. While top players generally go to Europe, those classified as top are not FINITE and can never be.

2. The change of who is and is not TOP is based on fluctuating form. There is always emergence of new stars on a conveyor belt that churns and churns in Africa.

3. Scouting is not and will never be a perfect science. No such thing as perfect science in the first place. Thus, errors exist and must exist.

To discover the best talent, therefore:

1. Requires casting a broad net that is not exclusionary in terms of where to look.

2. If we remain exclusionary, we would be today focused on Uzoho and will never locate a goalie in South Africa.

3. That location of a goalie in South Africa is a lesson that the wise should learn from.

Exclusionarism does not help.

[aruako1]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

[Damunk]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

[aruako1]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

[Damunk]

My question is why does this matter? I think the best players should play irrespective of their country of birth.

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.