SE and Foreign Born Players

[airwolex]

It is what it is. All countries have to deal with this one way or the other. From a country like France with mostly African players, to Croatia with mostly players born outside of Croatia. You guys are really beginning to sound a bit like right wing Euro Nationalists. If you continue like this you will start scaring away prospects from the National team.

Sure, I'd like a revival of the local league, but in the meantime we need to keep the SE competitive. What would you rather have? A cap on foreign born players?

Tbh, I don't really care where the Nigerians that play for the SE are from. Bassey, Lookman, Ekong etc for me are as Nigerian as Osimhen and Kelechi.

[Cellular]

@Cellular, it is well evidenced by the annals of history, for a nation to succeed, success must be the privilege of the people and purpose of the state. Soviet-eta propaganda sought a sense of superiority in its people, a state-sponsored doping program gave its athletes performance enhancement.

Even in the darkened corners and crevices of the conscience, there’s an awareness that state involvement is a must to achieve anything at national level.

Sorry, there can be no romanticism in this regard, no rallying of patriots through satire and sarcasm, “let everyone leave” or better yet “let oyinbo colonise our lands and run our administrations” (or to that effect). Such statements, no matter how tongue in cheek, come to the mouth with some element of truth. Why not, in place of Oyinbo, a credible candidate on ground capable of driving social reformation? Why must the undesirable extreme be presented before the public to turn their backs away in fear and horror?

This isn’t about neo-colonialism, rather about thr existential crisis continent wide, socioeconomic development. Throughout human history people have moved and settled out of need more than anything else. Capacity to do so is often secondary. When Viking longboats entered the seas, it wasn’t because they knew England was over yonder, rather due to a need to find fertile soils for vegetation, a more favourable climate for agriculture, gold for their coffers and war for their warriors.

If Nigeria will not embark on the requisite socioeconomic advancements, the essential reforms and creation of a state that functions as such, need will continue to open the oceans for thousands to move and settle.

In pursuit of success, in assembling the best available betters one’s chance. It is a vicious cycle that lays its blame in the same heap before the elect, as the intellectual talent brain drained to Europe and beyond.

Are there state wide initiatives to curb this need? Is there investment and legislation at Federal level to address the driving forces? Health, welfare, work, education, do detail the orders and actions from the power wielders to build the social system imperative to achieve the idealism being preached by yourself and Tbite.

Does the government care? Then the people must care for themselves. If the state reneges on its duties as state, the people will find a solution for the state they have been left in.

You lose what you cannot keep. Nigeria’s loss at one point will become its gain, to some extent, at another. The cycle will not relent till there is reform and a revolution of sorts in norms of state leadership. Till then, it’s just a dream that wakes to its nightmare day in, day out.

Coach, I actually agreed with your initial write-up and this one as well.

Tbite said it was a complex issue. And it is.

[Cellular]

It is what it is. All countries have to deal with this one way or the other. From a country like France with mostly African players, to Croatia with mostly players born outside of Croatia. You guys are really beginning to sound a bit like right wing Euro Nationalists. If you continue like this you will start scaring away prospects from the National team.

Sure, I'd like a revival of the local league, but in the meantime we need to keep the SE competitive. What would you rather have? A cap on foreign born players?

Tbh, I don't really care where the Nigerians that play for the SE are from. Bassey, Lookman, Ekong etc for me are as Nigerian as Osimhen and Kelechi.

Nobody said to have a cap. Give EVERY Naijarian the same opportunity.
This AFCON butteresses the point even further.
You are allowed 27 players, the coach/FA said no, they don't need 27 they will take 25. Why not take 2 local guys to give them exposure since you said that you don't need 27? Isn't the exposure of local players not worth the FA paying for 2 extra players?

Pa Onigbinde played a HUGE role in the development of the National team. He took a young Vinny to the World Cup and gave him a game. It increased Vinny's profile. He was competitive in the game he played against England. He showed you can do both... build a solid team for today and also have an eye for the future.

You talk about Croatia having most of its players from the diaspora but they are just barely 4 million of them.

[Tbite]

Funnily enough I am a strong opposer of the quota system in virtually all circumstances.

I think quota systems are almost always a ludicrous idea. I think part of the reason why Nigeria does not succeed is because of quota systems. In Nigeria we DO NOT field our best in various areas. It is very stupid. We field those 'closest to us'. This type of mentality brings the productivity of the nation down.

An Igbo man would rather a stupid Igbo man than a smart Yoruba man, a Yoruba man would rather a stupid Yoruba man than a smart Igbo man, a Hausa or a Fulani would rather the same. Nepotism, quota systems is all very stupid, all over the world, and in almost all contexts. Whether it is about diversity hiring or women/male participation etc. It is not a smart idea.

BUT I am also not one of those stupid ultra conservatists who does not believe in any form of interventionism (such people are very strange to me, and there are MANY intelligent people among them).

It is a giant leap from saying, we don't want too much regulation, or we don't want quotas, to saying, that there should never been any form of intervention. Markets are not benevolent. Markets are there to level out the most efficient agents, whomever they may be (equilibrium). Markets DO NOT exist to make the world better. You ALWAYS need intervention. Governments always have a strong role to play. Don't let ultra conservatives or libertarians fool you (they are morons, albeit smart morons, some of them).

So how does this relate to football. Well I believe in intervention where it is required. And all I was saying is that it is obvious to me that the structure is broken and needs intervention. As someone that is not some whacko ultra conservative, that makes sense to me. It isn't actually about quotas. The initial counter argument that was made about 3-5 years ago was that intervention takes time or cannot be done right now, which has now been abandoned for a newer version, which is, intervention is futile.

But intervention cannot be delayed. As we see in Nigeria, you can delay it forever. How long did it take Nigeria to revamp the Port Harcourt refinery? How long did it take the Dangote refinery to come on stream? I was not born yesterday. You CANNOT delay intervention, you have to do it NOW.

But my ideas had nothing to do with intervening in the team itself. It had to do with intervening OUTSIDE the team. The subject was more to do with raising awareness that intervention is needed immediately. The way Nigerian officials operate, without considerable pressure, it would take them 30-40 years to intervene where they need to. That was the gist.

This was deemed as xenophobia. Something that has nothing whatsoever to do with xenophobia.

[fabio]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

[airwolex]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

At the end of the day this is simply an opinion, bordering on conspircay theory sef. The fact of the matter is that we have never had so many good eligible foreign born Nigerians to pick from and it would be madness not to take advantage of it.

[aruako1]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

Yep. All I want us an SE where all potentials are exploited. If we have an Ndidi but Kante, who is born in France, is eligible, and opts to play for Nigeria of course Kante will start - the team is better for it. But the focus by Pinnick on foreign born Nigerians ahead of those born in Nigeria was an issue and created a dicothomy.

[airwolex]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

Yep. All I want us an SE where all potentials are exploited. If we have an Ndidi but Kante, who is born in France, is eligible, and opts to play for Nigeria of course Kante will start - the team is better for it. But the focus by Pinnick on foreign born Nigerians ahead of those born in Nigeria was an issue and created a dicothomy.

It is interesting you say that because the players themselves seem to get along very well. Is there something I am missing?

[aruako1]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

Yep. All I want us an SE where all potentials are exploited. If we have an Ndidi but Kante, who is born in France, is eligible, and opts to play for Nigeria of course Kante will start - the team is better for it. But the focus by Pinnick on foreign born Nigerians ahead of those born in Nigeria was an issue and created a dicothomy.

It is interesting you say that because the players themselves seem to get along very well. Is there something I am missing?

I have never related it to the current team. They seem to get on very well and the foreign raised players are amazing. My point is more general from a recruitment point of view - policies disproportionately focused on diaspora recruitment are not good (that was what Pinnick did) for our football. My son would be a foreign raised player if he could play so I would never discriminate against him or people like him. But there should be equal opportunity as it increases our SE talent base.

[Damunk]

The main issue, I think was Pinnick approach and dream. which was to have a Super Eagles of players born abroad, because in his opinion, they had supreme footballing education.

Also, Pinnick lack of interest in the Nigerian league and football development in Nigeria.

For me, it's more a 'Southern Nigerian' elite issue, who love everything 'imported' and loathe everything 'made' in Nigeria.

The current NFF chairman has taken a different approach, which certain people are not comfortable with. Which is why, some people refer to his actions and words in derogatory terms.

Yep. All I want us an SE where all potentials are exploited. If we have an Ndidi but Kante, who is born in France, is eligible, and opts to play for Nigeria of course Kante will start - the team is better for it. But the focus by Pinnick on foreign born Nigerians ahead of those born in Nigeria was an issue and created a dicothomy.

It is interesting you say that because the players themselves seem to get along very well. Is there something I am missing?

I have never related it to the current team. They seem to get on very well and the foreign raised players are amazing. My point is more general from a recruitment point of view - policies disproportionately focused on diaspora recruitment are not good (that was what Pinnick did) for our football. My son would be a foreign raised player if he could play so I would never discriminate against him or people like him. But there should be equal opportunity as it increases our SE talent base.

[sarkin doya]

<SNIP>

It is interesting you say that because the players themselves seem to get along very well. Is there something I am missing?

I have never related it to the current team. They seem to get on very well and the foreign raised players are amazing. My point is more general from a recruitment point of view - policies disproportionately focused on diaspora recruitment are not good (that was what Pinnick did) for our football. My son would be a foreign raised player if he could play so I would never discriminate against him or people like him. But there should be equal opportunity as it increases our SE talent base.

I wonder if the equal opportunity should be in SE selection? Rather, maybe there needs to be more resources in some key cities on organized soccer for ages 5 to 13 .... that way, the talent pool grows. The other thing is there is some emphasis on development during ages U13 to U17 but it may not be widespread enough. Focusing on those 2 age groups will naturally grow the talent pool.

[aruako1]

<SNIP>

It is interesting you say that because the players themselves seem to get along very well. Is there something I am missing?

I have never related it to the current team. They seem to get on very well and the foreign raised players are amazing. My point is more general from a recruitment point of view - policies disproportionately focused on diaspora recruitment are not good (that was what Pinnick did) for our football. My son would be a foreign raised player if he could play so I would never discriminate against him or people like him. But there should be equal opportunity as it increases our SE talent base.

I wonder if the equal opportunity should be in SE selection? Rather, maybe there needs to be more resources in some key cities on organized soccer for ages 5 to 13 .... that way, the talent pool grows. The other thing is there is some emphasis on development during ages U13 to U17 but it may not be widespread enough. Focusing on those 2 age groups will naturally grow the talent pool.

I totally agree with you. I don't want it at SE selection level but at a much lower level