Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

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txj
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:20 am
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:49 pm
Enugu II wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:03 pm
aruako1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:38 pm
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:04 pm
aruako1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:06 am
ANC wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 8:39 am whats the obsession with local based players, really?
They are the biggest pipeline for SE players no matter what delusion we want to have on CE. Chelle should be open to looking at local players but in the end, he should pick his team - I do not support having even one player imposed on him. If the CHAN team does well I see him picking some players there.

Not really and not DIRECTLY in the last 25 years.

The biggest pipeline for SE players is the European league, which develops the HB players.

And the biggest pipeline for transfer of HB players to Europe is our youth teams and academies.
The majority of the SE players today started out locally. Local based players are still the biggest pipeline. They may move abroad but most started in Nigeria. I agree with you though that it is not directly.
Aruako1

It has changed over the years. In fact, Nigeria is increasingly using players that never developed anywhere in the country. That is really what has changed overtime. However, it is also clear, that players developed in the country continue to make waves. When you track players that are recruited to foreign clubs from their home country, Nigeria continues to lead the rest of Africa and globally remains in the Top 10 of exporting countries. That indicates a continued production of talent from Nigeria. You only need to check the frequent research conducted and published by CIES.


The CIES data is limited though and doesn't count intra academies movements from the kind of youth academy relationships that exist widely in francophone countries, with European clubs, especially France.

In addition, it does not stratify between top and lower tier destinations.

Also, there is not a single transfer of a fully developed HB player directly to a top tier European league since Gbenga Okunowo.
Txj,

Academy players i.e. players under 18 cannot move abroad by rule except with their family or the like. That is a rule to prevent trafficking. CIES data, therefore, does not focus on the small number of such players who may move. Nevertheless, as per the discussion here, the CIES data gives us a good look as to the changes that is currently taking place globally. Clearly, the global changes associated with national team football is impacting Nigeria as is the case elsewhere when one reviews the composition of the national team and where those players have been developed at any point in their careers. The likes of Osimhen, partly developed in Nigeria, are becoming fewer.

But academy players are regularly moving, as there are walkarounds. And the numbers are significant, even in Nigeria, because clubs are developing relationships directly with academies. For instance, Barcelona's La Masia has relationships with the academies owned by their former players, Eto'o and Seydou Keita.

There are probably more Americans transferring to academies than Nigerians, b/c they are able to use their European ancestry. I have 3 families do this just in my neighborhood...

And my point is that CIES does not track any of this.. The reality is that the data has considerable limitations, which they actually recognize..
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Enugu II
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:10 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:20 am
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:49 pm
Enugu II wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:03 pm
aruako1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:38 pm
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:04 pm
aruako1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 10:06 am

They are the biggest pipeline for SE players no matter what delusion we want to have on CE. Chelle should be open to looking at local players but in the end, he should pick his team - I do not support having even one player imposed on him. If the CHAN team does well I see him picking some players there.

Not really and not DIRECTLY in the last 25 years.

The biggest pipeline for SE players is the European league, which develops the HB players.

And the biggest pipeline for transfer of HB players to Europe is our youth teams and academies.
The majority of the SE players today started out locally. Local based players are still the biggest pipeline. They may move abroad but most started in Nigeria. I agree with you though that it is not directly.
Aruako1

It has changed over the years. In fact, Nigeria is increasingly using players that never developed anywhere in the country. That is really what has changed overtime. However, it is also clear, that players developed in the country continue to make waves. When you track players that are recruited to foreign clubs from their home country, Nigeria continues to lead the rest of Africa and globally remains in the Top 10 of exporting countries. That indicates a continued production of talent from Nigeria. You only need to check the frequent research conducted and published by CIES.


The CIES data is limited though and doesn't count intra academies movements from the kind of youth academy relationships that exist widely in francophone countries, with European clubs, especially France.

In addition, it does not stratify between top and lower tier destinations.

Also, there is not a single transfer of a fully developed HB player directly to a top tier European league since Gbenga Okunowo.
Txj,

Academy players i.e. players under 18 cannot move abroad by rule except with their family or the like. That is a rule to prevent trafficking. CIES data, therefore, does not focus on the small number of such players who may move. Nevertheless, as per the discussion here, the CIES data gives us a good look as to the changes that is currently taking place globally. Clearly, the global changes associated with national team football is impacting Nigeria as is the case elsewhere when one reviews the composition of the national team and where those players have been developed at any point in their careers. The likes of Osimhen, partly developed in Nigeria, are becoming fewer.

But academy players are regularly moving, as there are walkarounds. And the numbers are significant, even in Nigeria, because clubs are developing relationships directly with academies. For instance, Barcelona's La Masia has relationships with the academies owned by their former players, Eto'o and Seydou Keita.

There are probably more Americans transferring to academies than Nigerians, b/c they are able to use their European ancestry. I have 3 families do this just in my neighborhood...

And my point is that CIES does not track any of this.. The reality is that the data has considerable limitations, which they actually recognize..
I understand your point on senior players. For the academy players below 18, there is insignificant movement because of current rules designed to hinder such movement. If they are if age, CIES will track them and have done so. In any case, no current site tracks everything. Each of them merely provide an estimate and I believe CIES does a good job tracking what it does and is adequate to answer the key question -- the movement of club players from different locales.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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txj
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:08 pm
txj wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:10 pm
Enugu II wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:20 am
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:49 pm
Enugu II wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:03 pm
aruako1 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:38 pm
txj wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:04 pm


Not really and not DIRECTLY in the last 25 years.

The biggest pipeline for SE players is the European league, which develops the HB players.

And the biggest pipeline for transfer of HB players to Europe is our youth teams and academies.
The majority of the SE players today started out locally. Local based players are still the biggest pipeline. They may move abroad but most started in Nigeria. I agree with you though that it is not directly.
Aruako1

It has changed over the years. In fact, Nigeria is increasingly using players that never developed anywhere in the country. That is really what has changed overtime. However, it is also clear, that players developed in the country continue to make waves. When you track players that are recruited to foreign clubs from their home country, Nigeria continues to lead the rest of Africa and globally remains in the Top 10 of exporting countries. That indicates a continued production of talent from Nigeria. You only need to check the frequent research conducted and published by CIES.


The CIES data is limited though and doesn't count intra academies movements from the kind of youth academy relationships that exist widely in francophone countries, with European clubs, especially France.

In addition, it does not stratify between top and lower tier destinations.

Also, there is not a single transfer of a fully developed HB player directly to a top tier European league since Gbenga Okunowo.
Txj,

Academy players i.e. players under 18 cannot move abroad by rule except with their family or the like. That is a rule to prevent trafficking. CIES data, therefore, does not focus on the small number of such players who may move. Nevertheless, as per the discussion here, the CIES data gives us a good look as to the changes that is currently taking place globally. Clearly, the global changes associated with national team football is impacting Nigeria as is the case elsewhere when one reviews the composition of the national team and where those players have been developed at any point in their careers. The likes of Osimhen, partly developed in Nigeria, are becoming fewer.

But academy players are regularly moving, as there are walkarounds. And the numbers are significant, even in Nigeria, because clubs are developing relationships directly with academies. For instance, Barcelona's La Masia has relationships with the academies owned by their former players, Eto'o and Seydou Keita.

There are probably more Americans transferring to academies than Nigerians, b/c they are able to use their European ancestry. I have 3 families do this just in my neighborhood...

And my point is that CIES does not track any of this.. The reality is that the data has considerable limitations, which they actually recognize..
I understand your point on senior players. For the academy players below 18, there is insignificant movement because of current rules designed to hinder such movement. If they are if age, CIES will track them and have done so. In any case, no current site tracks everything. Each of them merely provide an estimate and I believe CIES does a good job tracking what it does and is adequate to answer the key question -- the movement of club players from different locales.

Where I disagree with you is the notion that this is insignificant. Far, far from the reality...
It is on the contrary quite significant.
I know from my association with youth football in the US that many kids are foregoing college and going directly to European academies...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

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"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

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"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

Post by danfo driver »

Troost-Ekong has spoken to Eric Chelle

"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
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Re: Official: Eric Chelle to be unveiled on Monday, 13th January

Post by danfo driver »

These guys dey always crack me up

"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD

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