John Obi Mikel: Development

[anointed]

If you slap a man you catch in bed with your wife, you are the one who has committed a criminal offence, not the man who has come to defile your matrimonial bed! For me, this Obi case is another instance in which the law will not provide justice.

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

[Ziontrain]

To Ziontrain:

You cannot know very much of Norwegian football. Technically speaking, our players are not world class, but they partly make up for it by work-rate, fitness and tactical skills. All observers say that the Norwegian league has made great strides forward over that last few years. If you do not know and acknowledge this, you know nothing about Norwegian football.

And we are playing a qualifying match for the WC... Remind me, how did the "super" Eagles do...?..

Erik G

Sorry, no offense but I lived in Norway for almost two years. I watched that crap league more than enough times.

Also feel free to get us a video of the Start vs Vålerenga game and post it here. I have no doubt that most people here would be shocked at the lack of technically ability dispalyed by the top two teams in the league. I'm pretty sure that neither of them would be sure of promotion in English lower league.

As for the SE, I don't recall you making any noise when Norway was sitting their #$% at home during WC 2002. And being in the playoffs (where you will certainly get viciously spanked by the Czech Republic anyway) is just simply prolonging your agony. You are not going to make it to WC 2006. Period.

So no offense, but playing in Norwegian league is not anything remotely close to a 2nd rate football league. I have seen higher quality football played in the Premiership reserve league, to be honest. Obi has not proven anything over there - not any more than Seyi did.

[LynOslo]

To Ziontrain:

You cannot know very much of Norwegian football. Technically speaking, our players are not world class, but they partly make up for it by work-rate, fitness and tactical skills. All observers say that the Norwegian league has made great strides forward over that last few years. If you do not know and acknowledge this, you know nothing about Norwegian football.

And we are playing a qualifying match for the WC... Remind me, how did the "super" Eagles do...?..

Erik G

Sorry, no offense but I lived in Norway for almost two years. I watched that crap league more than enough times.

Also feel free to get us a video of the Start vs Vålerenga game and post it here. I have no doubt that most people here would be shocked at the lack of technically ability dispalyed by the top two teams in the league. I'm pretty sure that neither of them would be sure of promotion in English lower league.

As for the SE, I don't recall you making any noise when Norway was sitting their a$$ at home during WC 2002. And being in the playoffs (where you will certainly get viciously spanked by the Czech Republic anyway) is just simply prolonging your agony. You are not going to make it to WC 2006. Period.

So no offense, but playing in Norwegian league is not anything remotely close to a 2nd rate football league. I have seen higher quality football played in the Premiership reserve league, to be honest. Obi has not proven anything over there - not any more than Seyi did.

How long is it since you've been in Norway?

The Norwegian leauge has become much better in the last years.

Middle placed teams like Viking and Tromsø are beating teams like Monaco and Galatasaray.

Even Rosenborg, with a lousy team this year, managed to beat Olympiakos in Athens in this years Champions Leauge.

[Ziontrain]

Just post the Start-Vålerenga game here so that we can all laugh when you claim that Obi can learn anything at all in Norway. The Nowegian leageue has not gotten better. What has happened is that Rosenborg has dropped its standards.

But all these "new big" teams are all full of mediocre players. Steffen Iverson? Man, that dude is only at Vålerenga becuase nobody in the premiership will pay him to take up space and don't score goals! Leonadsen? Are you kidding me?

Just post the video and let it speak for itself.

[kaycee2g]

If you slap a man you catch in bed with your wife, you are the one who has committed a criminal offence, not the man who has come to defile your matrimonial bed! For me, this Obi case is another instance in which the law will not provide justice.

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

What you plead is sufficient provocation. There are several cases that could be used as precedence to highlight provocation.

The model Penal code (used bt American courts) states in section 210.3 that "influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance" is sufficient to negate culpability.

Even with that though, burden of proof rests on the defence. He has to show that there was insufficient time to cool down- E.g- People v. Berry- Man killed wife, after she taunted him of sleeping with another.

All in all, there are many cases that holds provocation as a defence for man killing wife after seeing her in an adulterous adventure.

[Catalyst]

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

insanity plea

All about the insanity defense by Mark Gado

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/24/ ... .killings/

http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1229b-1.html

http://www.justicetalking.org/joindebat ... progID=114

http://www.virginia.edu/facultyexperts/?root_id=3096

http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/56910.html


etc, etc, etc.......

[Africana]

Jesus, man if you need a propaganda outlet, at least go and set up your own website instead of using CE.

You came here and yabbed for ages about "he is going to Chelsea", now the hammer is about to fall - and you are exposed - and you are setting it up as "well they are trying to conving him"!

Really, enough of this crap.

Kpom!

[junior]

If you slap a man you catch in bed with your wife, you are the one who has committed a criminal offence, not the man who has come to defile your matrimonial bed! For me, this Obi case is another instance in which the law will not provide justice.

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

What you plead is sufficient provocation. There are several cases that could be used as precedence to highlight provocation.

The model Penal code (used bt American courts) states in section 210.3 that "influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance" is sufficient to negate culpability.

Even with that though, burden of proof rests on the defence. He has to show that there was insufficient time to cool down- E.g- People v. Berry- Man killed wife, after she taunted him of sleeping with another.

All in all, there are many cases that holds provocation as a defence for man killing wife after seeing her in an adulterous adventure.

The books in the prison library are outmoded. Stop trying to impress with your fake knowledge. Cut and Paste Attorney.

[kaycee2g]

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

insanity plea

All about the insanity defense by Mark Gado

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/24/ ... .killings/

http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1229b-1.html

http://www.justicetalking.org/joindebat ... progID=114

http://www.virginia.edu/facultyexperts/?root_id=3096

http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/56910.html


etc, etc, etc.......

Fegwu, i guess i did not explain myself properly (no time).

1.) Pleading insanity as to the defence for killing or injuring a man who is caught sleeping with ones wife is-

a.) Not usually done

b.) Attorneys will tell u that pleading sufficient provocation is easier.
i.) Sufficient provocation is easier because it is recognised by the model penal code as a defence for this crime, and is easier to proove. All defendant has to do is negate the burden, showing that there was not enough time to cool off.

2.) Also, before i went to law school, i had the line of thinking that everyone has. "Once u state insanity as ur defence, u are fine."
Thats simply not true. Out of 100% of those cases that are based on insanity defences, probably only 5% actually proove it. And that 5% are the one's we hear on TV. It is seriously, and i stress the word-seriously, difficult to proove insanity. I dont have time now, but when i do, i will send u a PM stating the "prong test" one must pass inorder to proove insanity.

[kaycee2g]

If you slap a man you catch in bed with your wife, you are the one who has committed a criminal offence, not the man who has come to defile your matrimonial bed! For me, this Obi case is another instance in which the law will not provide justice.

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

What you plead is sufficient provocation. There are several cases that could be used as precedence to highlight provocation.

The model Penal code (used bt American courts) states in section 210.3 that "influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance" is sufficient to negate culpability.

Even with that though, burden of proof rests on the defence. He has to show that there was insufficient time to cool down- E.g- People v. Berry- Man killed wife, after she taunted him of sleeping with another.

All in all, there are many cases that holds provocation as a defence for man killing wife after seeing her in an adulterous adventure.

The books in the prison library are outmoded. Stop trying to impress with your fake knowledge. Cut and Paste Attorney.

Junior.....(interesting choice of name). With the $45,000.00 a year I pay at my school, one will imagine that they update the books at the library. Schocking, isn't it?

[erikga]

This seems to have become at least two threads. maybe the people who want to discuss insanity, can do that on another part of the forum?

Back to the topic...

Ziontrain wrote:

The Nowegian leageue has not gotten better. What has happened is that Rosenborg has dropped its standards.

So you know better than just about every observer in Norway? Have you seen any matches in Norway this year?

All seems to agree, while certainly Rosenborg had a bad season, the top 5-6 teams all got very much better this year.

As to what Obi can learn, I think that is pretty evident:
- he can learn the right attitudes...
- he can learn tactical skills
- he can learn to apply himself

What Obi could bring to the table (if he wanted to...) is a far better level of skills than most players in the TL. In the four matches he played before Shittu snatched him away, he sparkled, when he returned, he was out of shape and did not seem to want to apply himself.

Erik G

[Football Manager]

As to what Obi can learn, I think that is pretty evident:
- he can learn the right attitudes...
Erik G

Why not complete it. maybe you wanted to rwrite "he can learn the right attitudes" on how to terminate a contract with his advisors unilaterally.

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

Why not complete it. maybe you wanted to rwrite "he can learn the right attitudes" on how to terminate a contract with his advisors unilaterally.

No, the rest of the sentence should have read: "he can learn the right attitudes on how to:
- stand by a contract he signed and
- not sabotaging his current contract..."

Those are skills needed to pursue a meaningful career in the real world, not the cloudcuckoo-land created for him by his advisor(s).

Erik G

[Ayo Akinfe]

Everything now depends on whether that Man U contract was signed under duress or not. Where Man U may have a problem is if Obi says that he was threatened with severe reprimands if he did not sign it.

However, I fear he may struggle to prove this, which is why I think Chelsea will lose out. At the end of the day, it is Chelsea's fault for not signing him up to a youth contract, scholarship or a professional contract when he turned 18.

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

Why not complete it. maybe you wanted to rwrite "he can learn the right attitudes" on how to terminate a contract with his advisors unilaterally.

No, the rest of the sentence should have read: "he can learn the right attitudes on how to:
- stand by a contract he signed and
- not sabotaging his current contract..."

Those are skills needed to pursue a meaningful career in the real world, not the cloudcuckoo-land created for him by his advisor(s).

Erik G

Okay. He signed a contract with his advisors that he was pressured to terminate. He has now learnt how to stand by it. So any contract which was not professionally negotiated by his advisors paid for that purpose is as good as a nulity.

[erikga]

Ayo Akinfe wrote:

Where Man U may have a problem is if Obi says that he was threatened with severe reprimands if he did not sign it.

We have been through this before, he cannot just say it , it has to be proven beyond doubt. It will be his word against 6-7 others, sworn affidavits that he was happy with the deal with ManU, video from NRK of a beaming Obi after signing, etc...

And what severe reprimands?
From ManU? No! They had no relationship with him.
From Lyn? Why? It is logical and it has been established the Lyn in fact would benefit from keeping Obi longer before selling him.

And the repercussions for FIFA of setting aside the ManU contract would be serious - imagine every player who wants out of a contract just saying he was pressured to sign...

Erik G.

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

Okay. He signed a contract with his advisors that he was pressured to terminate.

That is simply your unsubstantiated claim. When Mikel turned 18, he terminated the "contracts" with various agents that had been signed on his behalf when he was a minor. I believe he did that because:
- he wanted to take back control over his own life
- he did not want to pay a percentage to all the agent that had a stake in him (Fletcher 30%, Shittu 10%(?)... etc.)

Erik G

[Football Manager]

Ayo Akinfe wrote:

Where Man U may have a problem is if Obi says that he was threatened with severe reprimands if he did not sign it.

We have been through this before, he cannot just say it , it has to be proven beyond doubt. It will be his word against 6-7 others, sworn affidavits that he was happy with the deal with ManU, video from NRK of a beaming Obi after signing, etc...

And what severe reprimands?
From ManU? No! They had no relationship with him.
From Lyn? Why? It is logical and it has been established the Lyn in fact would benefit from keeping Obi longer before selling him.

And the repercussions for FIFA of setting aside the ManU contract would be serious - imagine every player who wants out of a contract just saying he was pressured to sign...

Erik G.

I dont see any repercussions that is why FIFA has in place a regulated system of Licensed agencies.

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

Okay. He signed a contract with his advisors that he was pressured to terminate.

That is simply your unsubstantiated claim. When Mikel turned 18, he terminated the "contracts" with various agents that had been signed on his behalf when he was a minor. I believe he did that because:
- he wanted to take back control over his own life
- he did not want to pay a percentage to all the agent that had a stake in him (Fletcher 30%, Shittu 10%(?)... etc.)

Erik G

Do you think it is illegal for U18 to have a contract with FIFA licensed agent so that I know your level of FIFA rules?

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

I dont see any repercussions that is why FIFA has in place a regulated system of Licensed agencies

If you do not see the possible consequences of not requiring any proof for serious claims like this, you should not be in this business...

And in this case, the Licenced Agent is actively aiding and abetting this case which, on the face of it, is entirely without merit. So that is no safeguard...

Erik G

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

Do you think it is illegal for U18 to have a contract with FIFA licensed agent so that I know your level of FIFA rules?

I have not said that - what I said was that I believe he did not want all those agents taking a percentage, so he terminated the contracts.

That is all - read my posts and do not put words in my mouth...

Erik G

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

I dont see any repercussions that is why FIFA has in place a regulated system of Licensed agencies

If you do not see the possible consequences of not requiring any proof for serious claims like this, you should not be in this business...

And in this case, the Licenced Agent is actively aiding and abetting this case which, on the face of it, is entirely without merit. So that is no safeguard...

Erik G

If a case like this is taken to DRC what do you think will be the VERDICT.
An agent pressured his player to terminate his contract with his club. The agent helped the player to a bigger club. Later the player changed his mind and said he has agreed with the his club that he remains their player. The player's agent and the new club took the player to DRC for adjudication. What decision do you expect?

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

If a case like this is taken to DRC what do you think will be the VERDICT.
An agent pressured his player to terminate his contract with his club. The agent helped the player to a bigger club. Later the player changed his mind and said he has agreed with the his club that he remains their player. The player's agent and the new club took the player to DRC for adjudication. What decision do you expect?

In the case above, sure, the verdict is clear. But it is NOT analogous to the Mikel case. You postulate that he was pressured, I have seen no PROOF of that.

It is just what you claim... Basically what you say - without any backup - is that he must have been pressured because I do not like the way it turned out for me... That is no proof.

Erik G