John Obi Mikel: Development

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

If a case like this is taken to DRC what do you think will be the VERDICT.
An agent pressured his player to terminate his contract with his club. The agent helped the player to a bigger club. Later the player changed his mind and said he has agreed with the his club that he remains their player. The player's agent and the new club took the player to DRC for adjudication. What decision do you expect?

In the case above, sure, the verdict is clear. But it is NOT analogous to the Mikel case. You postulate that he was pressured, I have seen no PROOF of that.

It is just what you claim... Basically what you say - without any backup - is that he must have been pressured because I do not like the way it turned out for me... That is no proof.

Erik G

I am only trying to help you to comprehend the verdict so that you as a fan dont think FIFA was wrong in the decision. Many people like you are out there without knowledge whatsoever about FIFA rules and regulations and basing their decision on what Morgan Andersen has to say.

Okay for the sake of arguement let me rephrase the scenario.

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

[FrostyZ]

Okay for the sake of arguement let me rephrase the scenario.

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

This is still not relevant to the Obi case

[Football Manager]

Okay for the sake of arguement let me rephrase the scenario.

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

This is still not relevant to the Obi case

Why do you say so?
Do you know that each of the player, the club and players' agent is regulated by FIFA?

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

You know the answer as well as I do. FIFA "Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players", Art 13ff states basically that a contract cannot be terminated unilaterally unless for "just cause" (Art. 14) or "sporting just cause" (Art. 15).

Unless "just cause" or "sporting just cause" can be proven, FIFA would rule that the players contract with Club A is still valid.

But what has this to do with the Obi case ??? Are you trying to say that Obi had a "contract" with Chelsea?

Erik G

[Ziontrain]

So you know better than just about every observer in Norway? Have you seen any matches in Norway this year?

All seems to agree, while certainly Rosenborg had a bad season, the top 5-6 teams all got very much better this year.

Yes I've seen games. My wife is Norwegian and we go there from time to time, since we moved from also. Also you can get NRK here on satellite.

As for the "top" teams, none of them are operating on a level that Rosenborg used to at its peak. So the best the league has to offer today is a drop from what it was. To deny this is a waste of time.

BTW, still waiting for you to post the video of Start-Vålerenga, so people can see that it resembled a game in English div 2 (aka "The Campionship". That pretty much says it all.

I don't know why Obi is delaying. For his talent level, he is wasting away valuable time in Norway. Messi is inferior to him in ability and Messi is getting playing time at Barcelona in champions league. If Obi thinks that Norwegian league is useful to his develpment at this point, he is on crack.

[junior]

Adultery is the highest invasion of a man's property and so if I kill him, I can still plead insanity in court with a good lawyer.

In American law, You cannot plead insanity.

insanity plea

All about the insanity defense by Mark Gado

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/24/ ... .killings/

http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1229b-1.html

http://www.justicetalking.org/joindebat ... progID=114

http://www.virginia.edu/facultyexperts/?root_id=3096

http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/56910.html


etc, etc, etc.......

Fegwu, i guess i did not explain myself properly (no time).

1.) Pleading insanity as to the defence for killing or injuring a man who is caught sleeping with ones wife is-

a.) Not usually done

b.) Attorneys will tell u that pleading sufficient provocation is easier.
i.) Sufficient provocation is easier because it is recognised by the model penal code as a defence for this crime, and is easier to proove. All defendant has to do is negate the burden, showing that there was not enough time to cool off.

2.) Also, before i went to law school, i had the line of thinking that everyone has. "Once u state insanity as ur defence, u are fine."
Thats simply not true. Out of 100% of those cases that are based on insanity defences, probably only 5% actually proove it. And that 5% are the one's we hear on TV. It is seriously, and i stress the word-seriously, difficult to proove insanity. I dont have time now, but when i do, i will send u a PM stating the "prong test" one must pass inorder to proove insanity.

Real numbers please and no speculation.

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

You know the answer as well as I do. FIFA "Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players", Art 13ff states basically that a contract cannot be terminated unilaterally unless for "just cause" (Art. 14) or "sporting just cause" (Art. 15).

Unless "just cause" or "sporting just cause" can be proven, FIFA would rule that the players contract with Club A is still valid.

But what has this to do with the Obi case ??? Are you trying to say that Obi had a "contract" with Chelsea?

Erik G

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

[junior]

Football Manager wrote:

A player unilaterally terminated his contract with his Club A. The player's agent then help the player find a bigger Club B and signed a contract with this Club B. Later the player for no reason made known to us in public we find the player insisting both in audio and visual comments that Club A remains his club. Then the player's agent and the Club B took the player to DRC for DRC to make a declaration that the player belongs to Club B. What do you think the decision would be?

You know the answer as well as I do. FIFA "Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players", Art 13ff states basically that a contract cannot be terminated unilaterally unless for "just cause" (Art. 14) or "sporting just cause" (Art. 15).

Unless "just cause" or "sporting just cause" can be proven, FIFA would rule that the players contract with Club A is still valid.

But what has this to do with the Obi case ??? Are you trying to say that Obi had a "contract" with Chelsea?

Erik G

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.[/quote]

So how does one 'fire' his agent? Unilaterally or Bilaterally? And please be honest in your comparisons between an player-agent contract and player-club contract.

[Frag]

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

That obviosuly depends on the contracts themselves.

If he could terminate them, all is well.

If he could not terminate them, he needs to come to an agreement with his advisors. This does however not free him from contracts signed without his advisors' approval.

[erikga]

Ziontrain wrote:

As for the "top" teams, none of them are operating on a level that Rosenborg used to at its peak. So the best the league has to offer today is a drop from what it was. To deny this is a waste of time.

Your logic is flawed, my friend... Yes, Rosenborg got worse, but 5-6 other teams got better = the overall standard of play got better!

And I do not have a video of the Start-Vålerenga game and I fail to see what that would prove.

Erik G

[erikga]

Football Manager wrote:

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

Contracts between a player and an agent is not regulated by THOSE FIFA regulations. The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is for a fixed period of time. I do not know what type of contract was signed between Obi's legal guardian and agent(s), nor the length of these contracts.

Anyway, Art 16.2 in the FIFA Player Agent's Regulations gives the right to the player of NOT naming an agent in a specific transfer deal.

Erik G

[Ayo Akinfe]

Football Manager wrote:

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

Contracts between a player and an agent is not regulated by THOSE FIFA regulations. The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is for a fixed period of time. I do not know what type of contract was signed between Obi's legal guardian and agent(s), nor the length of these contracts.

Anyway, Art 16.2 in the FIFA Player Agent's Regulations gives the right to the player of NOT naming an agent in a specific transfer deal.

Erik G

Like FM, you know your stuff. I see both of you have read the agents handbook well.

Erik and FM, could you two meet up to resolve this matter because I am beginning to believe that you two hold the key to this problem.

[erikga]

To Ayo Akinfe and FM!

I'll very be happy to meet FM in a duel! I am in London.

My choice of weapons would be Fact of the Case at dawn...

I nominate FrostyZ and frag to be my Seconds.

And Ayo Akinfe, would you do us the honor of being the referee?

Erik G

[anointed]

Ayo Akinfe wrote:

Where Man U may have a problem is if Obi says that he was threatened with severe reprimands if he did not sign it.

We have been through this before, he cannot just say it , it has to be proven beyond doubt. It will be his word against 6-7 others, sworn affidavits that he was happy with the deal with ManU, video from NRK of a beaming Obi after signing, etc...

And what severe reprimands?
From ManU? No! They had no relationship with him.
From Lyn? Why? It is logical and it has been established the Lyn in fact would benefit from keeping Obi longer before selling him.

And the repercussions for FIFA of setting aside the ManU contract would be serious - imagine every player who wants out of a contract just saying he was pressured to sign...

Erik G.

I dont see any repercussions that is why FIFA has in place a regulated system of Licensed agencies.

There will certainly be. FIFA should be very wary and reluctant of setting a dangerous precedent.

You av not confirmed that you are not John Shittu or the agent of Agent John Shittu so I take it you are JS.

[MountainKing]

Latest development:

Both Mikel and Ogbuke were booed from the stands during the ceremony when the team was awarded with bronze medals after the home game against FK Bodø/Glimt.

Mountain King

[omonija]

Latest development:

Both Mikel and Ogbuke were booed from the stands during the ceremony when the team was awarded with bronze medals after the home game against FK Bodø/Glimt.

Mountain King

bronze medals?? what competition?

[MountainKing]

Latest development:

Both Mikel and Ogbuke were booed from the stands during the ceremony when the team was awarded with bronze medals after the home game against FK Bodø/Glimt.

Mountain King

bronze medals?? what competition?

The Norwegian league ended last saturday, FC Lyn Oslo finishing on a strong 3. place, 2 pts. behind the winner VIF.

[Frag]

Latest development:

Both Mikel and Ogbuke were booed from the stands during the ceremony when the team was awarded with bronze medals after the home game against FK Bodø/Glimt.

Mountain King

Mikel was at least, by about 10% of the home crowd or so. Some people may have booed for Edu as well, but the amount must have been minimal (I heard nothing).

I certainly understand the fans who chose to show their feelings about Mikel's latest actions, but not really knowing what's Mikel and what's Shittu, I chose to remain silent when his name was announced. When Edu was called up, I cheered as much as I did for any other player.

[Ziontrain]

And I do not have a video of the Start-Vålerenga game and I fail to see what that would prove.

As you well know, it would prove that the two top teams in that your so-called "improved" league would not even be sure of promotion to the Premership, let alone to cope in the Premiership.

As I said, I've seen better football played in Arsenal reserves games than what I saw in Start vs Vålerenga. So what Obi is doing still wasting time in that place, I don't know....

[Football Manager]

Football Manager wrote:

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

Contracts between a player and an agent is not regulated by THOSE FIFA regulations. The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is for a fixed period of time. I do not know what type of contract was signed between Obi's legal guardian and agent(s), nor the length of these contracts.

Anyway, Art 16.2 in the FIFA Player Agent's Regulations gives the right to the player of NOT naming an agent in a specific transfer deal.

Erik G

1) The contracts between a player and licensed agent is regulated. Please refer to Art 17 ss 2 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes.
2) The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is NEVER for a fixed period of time BUT does have a maximum duration of length. This however can be renewed at the express request of both parties. Also additional agreements are permissible. Please refer to Art 12 ss2 and ss9 of Players Agent Regulations.
3) FIFA NEVER stated that minors cannot sign a contract. Please refer to Art 12 ss11 of the Players Agent Regulations.
4) According to Art 13 second sentence: Only the players' agent himself is entitled to represent and promote the interests of players and/or clubs with other players and/or clubs. You may compare this aspect of the regulations with the audio and video proof of Andersen claiming they (Lyn Oslo management) negotiated a very good contract for Obi Mikel.
5) With reference to Art 16 ss 2

If a player does not use the services of a players' agent, this fact shall also be explicitly stated in the relevant employment contract

Again Man United and Lyn Oslo erred accccording to this Art since NOWHERE in the purported contract signed was this information NOTED.

[Waffiman]

erikga sadly, your position is tinged with bias. You cannot be objective om this matter because of your love for your club. I understand, I am like that sometimes.

In the beginning I was dismayed with Shittu's actions when he went to remove Obi away from his employers. But as he facts started coming out, I began to understand why Shittu acted the way he did.

But as the facts have come out, it becomes clear that Lyn, Manure, Chelski and Morgan Anderson are all just as bad as each other. They are all seeking to protect their interest and damn Obi. Shittu too is seeking to protect his interest but at least he is not stabbing no one. Obi is just a pawn in this dirty murky affair.

The fact is Morgan Anderson and Manure tried to stab Shittu in the back and they have failed. Morgan stabbed Chelski in the back for Manure but I have no qualms with that because Manure got stabbed by Chelski in the first place for Obi.

However, we cannot get away from certain facts.

Obi has a contract with Lyn which was signed in the presence of Shittu when he became a professional.

Seven days later Obi signs for Manure without Shittu being present. We later hear that Obi fired Shittu in a letter written to him asking for their contract to be terminated. I do not know who wrote this letter but I also do not believe who wrote is relevant. IMHO, this letter Obi is alledged to have written cannot hold in any court of law.

My A-Level Law tells me you cannot disolve a contract arbitrarily or on a whim without due consideration. So long as one party has not acted in a manner that is grossly in breach of the contract one party cannot terminate a contract just like that. There must be compensation and this must be settled before either party can act in accordance with the obligations written into the contract.

Do not get me wrong, there is nothing stopping Obi terminating his contract with Shittu so long as there has been consideration for Shittu. Obi cannot terminate the contract and then immediately sign a contract with another club and another person acting as his agent without settling or considering Shittu first and foremost.

In effect, my understanding of contract law is; Shittu was still Obi's agent when he signed for Manure. Therefore it was wrong and against the contract Obi has with Shittu for Obi to sign for Manure It was also wrong and a breach of the contract Obi has with Shittu for another agent to be present for that signing. The only agent acting for Obi who should have been present is Shittu.

Obi firing Shittu in that letter cannot hold because he should have settled (compensation) Shittu according to the terms of his contract with Shittu before he can employ another agent or sign for Manure.

Given the above, Obi's contract with Manure is null and void. Given the above, the sale of Obi to Manure by Lyn is null and void. Obi is still a Lyn player but Lyn cannot sell Obi to any club without Shittu acting for Obi. In fact, Manure's only hope is to persuade Shittu to switch sides from Chelski to Manure.

I now believe Lyn and Morgan Anderson acted dishonourably and disgracefully. Morgan Anderson, Lyn and maybe Manure in the form of Henning Berg colluded and persuaded (pressured) Obi into dumping Shittu because it was the only way the player would have signed for Manure. Why? Shittu is representing Chelski.

I now believe Morgan Anderson is low down shamless opportunist with no scruples who saw his chance to make money and as far as he was concerned, the end justified the means. Morgan underestimated Shittu and treated him with disdain and utter disrespect. I wonder if he would have acted the same way if Shittu was White.

I am with FM because I now take the view FIFA will rule in favour of Shittu on the basis of how I have interpreted events above. I maybe wrong but time will tell.

[FrostyZ]

Football Manager wrote:

Obi had a contract with his advisors! In the same way you felt he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his Club A so he cannot terminate his contract unilaterally with his advisors.

Contracts between a player and an agent is not regulated by THOSE FIFA regulations. The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is for a fixed period of time. I do not know what type of contract was signed between Obi's legal guardian and agent(s), nor the length of these contracts.

Anyway, Art 16.2 in the FIFA Player Agent's Regulations gives the right to the player of NOT naming an agent in a specific transfer deal.

Erik G

1) The contracts between a player and licensed agent is regulated. Please refer to Art 17 ss 2 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes.

True, but no information on how to end such a contract so that has to be dealt with elsewhere. FIFA cannot rule that the cancelletion of Obis contract with shittu couldnt be terminated unilateraly based on their regulations. That would need to be some other body

2) The FIFA Standard Representation Contract is NEVER for a fixed period of time BUT does have a maximum duration of length. This however can be renewed at the express request of both parties. Also additional agreements are permissible. Please refer to Art 12 ss2 and ss9 of Players Agent Regulations.

yes a maximum of two years nad may then be prolonged. Ponit is?

3) FIFA NEVER stated that minors cannot sign a contract. Please refer to Art 12 ss11 of the Players Agent Regulations.

Also true, but also here I fail to see the point based on my comment to point 1

4) According to Art 13 second sentence: Only the players' agent himself is entitled to represent and promote the interests of players and/or clubs with other players and/or clubs. You may compare this aspect of the regulations with the audio and video proof of Andersen claiming they (Lyn Oslo management) negotiated a very good contract for Obi Mikel.
5) With reference to Art 16 ss 2

If a player does not use the services of a players' agent, this fact shall also be explicitly stated in the relevant employment contract

Again Man United and Lyn Oslo erred accccording to this Art since NOWHERE in the purported contract signed was this information NOTED.

If they failed to include that Obi did not use an agent, that would of course not be accoding to these regulations. Have you seen the contract. Are you sure it's not there?

[Ziontrain]

Do not get me wrong, there is nothing stopping Obi terminating his contract with Shittu so long as there has been consideration for Shittu. Obi cannot terminate the contract and then immediately sign a contract with another club and another person acting as his agent without settling or considering Shittu first and foremost.

Typically agent contracts allow the player to fire the agent at any time. After all the agent is an employee of the the player, not vice versa! Otherwise its just legal slavery.

Typically the agent has ongoing rights to his percentage of all deal that the agent has worked on when the player was his clientand which the player is is reciving money.

That has no bearning on any new contract or revenue source which the player may enter into after the agent is fined.

In other words, "settling" has only to do with Shittu getting a cut of Obi's pay from existing Lyn contract etc.

This happens all the time. For example in the NBA, once the new salary cap was instituted, a lot of players simply fired the agent when it came time to re-sign. The agent added no value and the players wisely refused to carry them as freeloaders.

In this case, Shittu was trying profit to serve two masters on opposite sides of the same transaction (Obi and Chelsea) which is exactly the kind of thing that FIFA is trying to remove from the sport.

It was that very confilcit of interest which Shittu had which has driven this mess. Shittu was seeking to close the deal for Chelsea rather having an open market and thus getting the best deal for Obi.

This allowed Man U to jump in and say "ditch the agent, he aint working for you, he's working for Chelsea and riding your back". Thus Obi dumped him - and signed without a load on his back. Its not that complicated

Obviosuly Shittu had to then go back and ask Chelsea to up their offer to Obi. But it was too late - his signature was already on a Man U contract.

So Shittu is not legally entitle to any split of the Man U deal. And its Shittu's own fault. He forgot that the only loophole was Obi himself - and he allowed Obi's head to be turned due to his (Shittu's) own conflict of interest.

Its a textbook lesson in greed coming back to bite you in the a$$.