Is this the best dutch side ever?

[kofi86]

Bret

After 1982 they stopped producing world class players in abundance. When was the last time you saw a dominating German forward like Rumminegge? Sorry, Klinsmann and Voeller were not at all as good as KarlHeinz, who had close ball control and the ability to create something out of nothing. Matheus for me was the last German player who could truly dominate and change a match. Ballack

In 1982, Germany cheated with Austria against Algeria. They committed crime against France, physically knocking out Battiston.

In 1986, they were laughably outplayed by Argentina in the final. There was a night and day difference between the teams in terms of ball playing ability.

In 1990, I doubt they were better than Italy and needed a penalty kick to beat a Diego Maradona led Argentina. Since then, they have hardly done anything...getting crushed in 1998 by Croatia...getting to the final in the last WC, but needing more cheating to beat the US in the quarterfinals.

Cheers, Mate

wow. for unknown reasons (maybe the euro 96 you mentioned) you really hate germany.
you think it is luck that germany won the euro 3 times, was 2nd 2 times and 1x first (way better than any other team)
you think it is luck that germany won the wc 3 times, 4x final and 2y semis (2n best record)?
germany is the 2nd most succesfull team of the world so give them their credit they deserve.
apart from that argentina is the country that is known for cheating etc. you remember maradonas goal in 86?

But, they really believed their own propaganda that football is first tactics, coaching, and body-building as opposed to evaluating and letting the strengths of the players dictate play.

please explain me the cl final porto - monaco, explain how liverpool won the cl and please explain how greece won the euro! definately not, because the strong greece players dictated play!

[mate]

apart from that argentina is the country that is known for cheating etc. you remember maradonas goal in 86?

Germany deserves as much of a cheating reputation as Argentina. Please!

I actually loved Germany as a kid until what they did to France in the 1982 WC. From then on, I noticed a serious decline in their ability to play controlling football and produce top level players.

Yes, they are indeed one of the more successful nations in football of all time. No argument from me. However, they have had their share of luck, questionable calls, and cheating. And, most of all, they have been a bit on the downward spiral since the early 80s...especially when one takes a closer look at their results.

Let's see next summer. They might have the makings of a formidable team if their youth corps comes of age.

Cheers, Mate

[dizzle]

Guys

The 1974 Dutch WC team was their greatest, period. They simply annihilated most of their opponents and were extremely unfortunate to lose to a lucky, albeit skilled, German team in the final. The Dutch played an impressive array of opponents, including Brazil and Argentina, to reach the final. Germany on the other hand even lost in the 1st round and were fortunate to beat Poland in the semi-final.

Rarely have European national teams managed to play flowing football like the Dutch of the 70s. Even the Brazilians gave kudos to the Dutch love and skill for football as it should be played. The galloping Magyars Hungarian team of 1954 comes close, as does that champagne French team of 1982. How ironic that a German machine managed to deny both of these storied outfits their rightful WC victories!!! I will always believe France was ROBBED by corrupt officiating and CRAP GERMAN CHEATING in 1982, especially by Schumacher.

Yes, my childhood innocence died the day I saw Platini, Tigana, Gengini, Giresse, Amoros, Six, and Rocheteau lose that day to Germany on penalty kicks!!!

:x :x :x

Unfortunately, European football is too often about rigid defensive tactics, power and fitness, conformity, and a lack of individual expression. No doubt the players are there, but coaches seem to be more important. Contrast this to the South American school of football.

Incidentally, most African teams started to develop a style and approach reminiscent of the Brazilian way. Unfortunately, I steadily have seen most of them abandon what they do best in an attempt to emulate the general European approach...ignoring what teams like the 1954 Magyars, 1974 Dutch, and 1982 French represented.

In truth, for me, those European teams were the best from the continent and should have done better in terms of continuity. Unlucky circumstance threw them off their then footballing approach, morphing them into something less appealing.

Hence, I have high hopes for the current Dutch outfit...as well as even my Croatia, which strives to play classical European football. We're getting it together. It's a matter of time before we figure it out and make another serious run at the WC. You'll see, there is a big difference between playing Croatia as opposed to Germany. We're waiting for our Cruyff to ice the cake.



Cheers, Mate

Mos def........

[kofi86]

apart from that argentina is the country that is known for cheating etc. you remember maradonas goal in 86?

Germany deserves as much of a cheating reputation as Argentina. Please!

I actually loved Germany as a kid until what they did to France in the 1982 WC. From then on, I noticed a serious decline in their ability to play controlling football and produce top level players.

Yes, they are indeed one of the more successful nations in football of all time. No argument from me. However, they have had their share of luck, questionable calls, and cheating. And, most of all, they have been a bit on the downward spiral since the early 80s...especially when one takes a closer look at their results.

Let's see next summer. They might have the makings of a formidable team if their youth corps comes of age.

Cheers, Mate

yes, germany is the 2nd most succesful team ever because of luck, questionable calls and cheating

[TD]

The 1988 team with Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Koeman, Van Breukelen was the best ever.

My broda,

That 1988 side was a great tam, but this side of 1974 will take them drink garri.

IMHO, man for man, the 1988 team was better with the exception of Muhren on the left. lets see:

Breukelen, van Aerle, Rijkaard, Koemen, van Tigglen, Vanenburg, Wouters, Erwin Koemen, Muhren, Gullit, van Basten.

Old boy, you miss road big time o. Man for man? You mean Johnny Rep vs van Basten (Rep), Ruud Gullit vs Cryuff (Cryuff) and Rijkaard vs Wim van Hanegem (van H). You want to compare Erwin Koeman to Rudi Krol? and we have not even begun talking of Rensenbrink and Neeskens.

In fact, in the 1988 European Championship, one could argue that the best team was arguably Italy and not Holland.

[Sir V]

The 1988 team with Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Koeman, Van Breukelen was the best ever.

My broda,

That 1988 side was a great tam, but this side of 1974 will take them drink garri.

IMHO, man for man, the 1988 team was better with the exception of Muhren on the left. lets see:

Breukelen, van Aerle, Rijkaard, Koemen, van Tigglen, Vanenburg, Wouters, Erwin Koemen, Muhren, Gullit, van Basten.

Old boy, you miss road big time o. Man for man? You mean Johnny Rep vs van Basten (Rep), Ruud Gullit vs Cryuff (Cryuff) and Rijkaard vs Wim van Hanegem (van H). You want to compare Erwin Koeman to Rudi Krol? and we have not even begun talking of Rensenbrink and Neeskens.

In fact, in the 1988 European Championship, one could argue that the best team was arguably Italy and not Holland.

Neeskens was one of my favourite Dutch players. A great attacking Midfielder.He had a great World Cup scoring five goals including a brilliant chip against Brazil and that second-minute penalty in the final.

[panafrican]

Best teams ever:

[1] 1970 Brazilian team
[2] 1974 Dutch team
[3] 2002 Brazilian team
[4] 1988 Dutch team
[5] 1994 Brazilian team
[6] 1990 German team
[7] 1986 Argentine team
[8] 1986 French team
[9] 1982 Italian team
[10] 1990 Italian team

I would add the 1982 brazilian team. they had not lost any game for 2 years before being defeated by Italy. I read an interview from cafu in 1998 in which he was saying that Brazil 1994 was playing poorly, but won, while Brazil 1982 was really a great team, with playing beautyfully, but never won the world cup. That team made me love football

But You won't desagree that Zico, Socrates, Falcao, Junior, Eder ...etc were really great players.

[panafrican]

Wednesday, 10 April, 2002, 17:25 GMT 18:25 UK

Dream team's Spanish nightmare

Four-times World Cup winners and twice runners-up, Brazil have come to represent all that is best about the tournament.
But, for many Brazilians, the best side the country ever produced did not actually make it to the World Cup final, or even the semi-final.

The 'dream team' of 1982 arrived in Spain with the whole of Brazil expecting them to return with the trophy.

They were feted as possibly even better than the world champions of 1970 and went into the finals in spectacular form.

Tele Santana's side swept through qualifying and then several friendlies, beating West Germany, host nation Spain, and thrashing the Republic of Ireland 7-0.

The team was loaded with attacking possibilities throughout, with an outrageously talent midfield of skipper Socrates alongside Cerezo and Falcao. Ahead of them were strikers Serginho and Eder, with the natural heir to Pele, Flamego star Zico, given licence to roam wherever he wished.

At the back, the unmistakeable figure of Junior went through the defensive motions but was far happier joining up with the midfield.

Fellow defenders Leandro, Oscar and Luisinho had as much flair as most other sides could field in attack, while keeper Valdir Perez was not so much a weak link as untested.

Brazil were drawn with the Soviet Union, Scotland and New Zealand in the opening phase. On a hot June evening in Seville, Brazil started at their favoured leisurely pace and quickly got a glimpse of what would ultimately prove their downfall.

After half an hour, Perez fumbled a weak shot from Andrej Baja and Russia went ahead.

But Brazil replied magnificently, first through skipper Socrates and then an unbelievable volley from Eder.

Another poor start followed four days later against Scotland. A stunning strike from David Narey after 18 minutes put the Scots ahead, but when Zico levelled soon after with a free-kick the result was never in doubt.

A header from Oscar, a lob from Eder and a long-range effort from Falcao ensured Brazil progressed to the second phase in style.

Zico took the opportunity to show his full range of skills in the final group game against New Zealand.

He opened the scoring with an overhead kick after half an hour and fired in a second two minutes later, before Falcao and Serginho completed the scoring in the second half.

The second phase saw Brazil drawn in a fearsome group alongside fellow heavyweights Argentina and Italy in Barcelona. They began against old rivals and defending champions Argentina and showed their best form of the tournament.

Zico got the opener in the 12th minute when he reacted first after Eder's fierce free-kick came back off the bar. Falcao and Scorates dominated midfield, and Brazil made the game safe in the second half through goals from Seginho and Junior.

Diaz managed a last-minute consolation for Argentina, but their frustration was evident when Diego Maradona was sent off for kicking substitute Batista.

A draw against Italy would be enough to send Brazil into the semi-finals on goal difference, but this was not a side capable of playing for anything other than a win.

Played in the midday heat, the clash with Italy was one of the best in World Cup history. Paolo Rossi ensured that Brazil made their customary poor start, heading Italy into the lead in the fifth minute.

Socrates came to the rescue just seven minutes later, latching on to a Zico pass and slipping the ball between Dino Zoff and the near post. But the defensive frailties would not go away, and in the 25th minute Cerezo gave the ball straight to Rossi, who finished clinically.

Brazil dominated possession but did not get back on level terms until the 68th minute, when Falcao crashed in a shot from 20 yards.

His exuberant celebration was one of relief. Surely this time they would hold on?

Yet again a simple defensive error cost them, as Junior played Rossi onside following a corner, allowing the Italian to complete his hat-trick. There was still time for Zoff to make a breathtaking save from Oscar in the final minute, but the final whistle was greeted with disbelief by the team and the vast Brazilian support.

Socrates, Falcao, Zico, Junior and Oscar all went to Mexico in 1986, but although the team made it to the last eight they failed to match up to the team of four years earlier.

There was only one 'dream team' and its chance had gone.

[panafrican]

http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/peter20020314.html

Everyone loves goals, and everyone has their favorites. In this column I'll rank my 25 favorite goals of the last 5 World Cups, starting in 1982. Note that this is not an attempt to rank the "greatest" goals; many outstanding goals, some of which are very famous, either don't appear here at all or rank lower than in the usual lists. This is just a purely subjective list of my personal favorites, the ones that not only thrilled me when I first saw them on live television, but continue to thrill me as I see them on tape again and again (...)

2) Eder, Brazil vs. USSR, 1982. The Brazilians have a history of great long-range shooters: Garrincha, Rivelino, Branco, Roberto Carlos, etc. In 1982, their man from distance was the left-footed Eder -- in a second round game against Argentina, one of his free kicks practically broke the crossbar. This goal comes from Brazil's opening match, when they were tied 1:1 with the USSR with only a few minutes left.
A weak Soviet clearance gives a Brazilian possession just to the right of the area about 14 yards out. He sends the ball back and to his left, to Socrates. Except Socrates doesn't play it -- standing almost perfectly still, he executes an incomparable dummy, letting the ball go straight through his legs. And here comes Eder, charging from deep. With his first touch he deftly flips the ball into the air, and with his second, from about 24 yards out, he drills an absolutely unstoppable shot inside the right post. Dasayev, the Soviet keeper, doesn't even move. One of the undisputed all-time great goals.

[Sir V]

http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/peter20020314.html

Everyone loves goals, and everyone has their favorites. In this column I'll rank my 25 favorite goals of the last 5 World Cups, starting in 1982. Note that this is not an attempt to rank the "greatest" goals; many outstanding goals, some of which are very famous, either don't appear here at all or rank lower than in the usual lists. This is just a purely subjective list of my personal favorites, the ones that not only thrilled me when I first saw them on live television, but continue to thrill me as I see them on tape again and again (...)

2) Eder, Brazil vs. USSR, 1982. The Brazilians have a history of great long-range shooters: Garrincha, Rivelino, Branco, Roberto Carlos, etc. In 1982, their man from distance was the left-footed Eder -- in a second round game against Argentina, one of his free kicks practically broke the crossbar. This goal comes from Brazil's opening match, when they were tied 1:1 with the USSR with only a few minutes left.
A weak Soviet clearance gives a Brazilian possession just to the right of the area about 14 yards out. He sends the ball back and to his left, to Socrates. Except Socrates doesn't play it -- standing almost perfectly still, he executes an incomparable dummy, letting the ball go straight through his legs. And here comes Eder, charging from deep. With his first touch he deftly flips the ball into the air, and with his second, from about 24 yards out, he drills an absolutely unstoppable shot inside the right post. Dasayev, the Soviet keeper, doesn't even move. One of the undisputed all-time great goals.

To me the Italians were better than the Brazilians in that quarter final match.

[original skeepolah]

The Italian side of 90 does not come close.

I beg to disagree Sir V. That team was dynamite with the likes of Vialli not even geting into the team.

Just look at the squad which included Donadoni, Maldini, Baresi, Baggio, Schillachi, Zenghar etc. It was by far the best team in the tournament that was only unlucky to lose out on oenalties in the semi finals.

I hope you realise that the team did not concede a goal until the semi finals. They were far better than Argentina who eliminated them and Germany that won the cup in my opinion.

I totally agree...I even told my younger bro at the tiume, that the team that would score against them would probably beat them, and it happened.........I know if they outclassed the agries, they would have totally raped germany, more than they did in 82, and that basket Bodo Ilgner wold not have helped...

[original skeepolah]

apart from that argentina is the country that is known for cheating etc. you remember maradonas goal in 86?

Germany deserves as much of a cheating reputation as Argentina. Please!

I actually loved Germany as a kid until what they did to France in the 1982 WC. From then on, I noticed a serious decline in their ability to play controlling football and produce top level players.

Yes, they are indeed one of the more successful nations in football of all time. No argument from me. However, they have had their share of luck, questionable calls, and cheating. And, most of all, they have been a bit on the downward spiral since the early 80s...especially when one takes a closer look at their results.

Let's see next summer. They might have the makings of a formidable team if their youth corps comes of age.

Cheers, Mate

I beg tell dem Mate...germany would ave boarded Lufthansa quickly after that game against Austria, if the austrians did not give them that game...Algeria would have (& should have) been the 2st african team to cross, not thanks to the Germans and their cheating ways.....