FT: Zimbabwe 1 vs Nigeria 1

[airwolex]

This will get pushback from the usual FC/LC pundits but I dont think this is a coaching issue at it's core:
1. I don't see great coaching at the national level generally speaking.
2. So, while our coach is not great, he is on par woth all the other below to average managers on the Continent. So at worst we are even at coaching with most of our fellow Africans.

Meaning, if we suck or play poorly (especially the way in which we play poorly) its a talent issue here first an foremost.

I see 3 players I think are average:
Iwobi, Bright and Aina. I see 5 below average in Boniface, Ajayi, Simon, Collins, and Nacho. Everyone else is poor to very poor. I.e. below replacement level. Its hard to be good; talk less great when you have no good players, 3 average players, 5 below average, and everyone else bad.


Coaching cant fix that. Sourcing better technical talent is severely required. Iwobi should be the worst technical midfielder on the team. Not the best and ONLY guy who can pass beyond 5 yards... Thats just pathetic.

How does one then explain their performance at club level? And I'm not talking about the Championship players.

Nothing average about Boniface, Moffi, Lookman, Tella, etc in their clubs.

Even in MF, we have technical players. Are they the level of KDB? Absolutely not!
But the likes of Onyeka, Ndidi, Onyedika, etc can do a top job for you if you have clear ideas about how to play, you pay attention to details, and enforce a high standard. As THEY DO at their clubs!

Again, I have not been watching most of this particular set of players as closely at club level. But as I have long ago noted, an athletic player can excel in a team full of less athletic players who are technically superior to the athlete. So, you put a superior athlete with deficiencies in his game in the midst of 10 less athletic but technically sound players, and the outcome would be better than if you simply had 11 similarly situated technical players.
no no
I have long sensed that we suffer from this problem. We create lots tough no-nonsense-tackling DMs and CBs who are lacking in the finer details, athletic wingers and Big physical specimens for Strikers. But we generally lack that everyday technically and tactically sound guy who isn't special at anything but makes very few mistakes because they a sound in their technical skill and above average in their tactical awareness.

Right now, I only see 2 players who fit that bill. Iwobi and Bright Osayi-Samuel. Aina is borderline too. Everyone else is below technical standards, it seems.


I mean, I couldn't have been the only one who saw, on multiple occasions, an unpressured Nigerian player misplacing passes to a teammate or trying a cross field pass that gets no where close to the intended target. These are not situations where pressure or the opponent's tactics befuddle said players. Both Zimbabwe and Lesotho set up as basic a formation as one could imagine. And our players were just failing at doing basic footballing things well.

Boniface has been sensational for the top team in the Bundesliga. Lookman was Atalanta's top performer last season and he has been in good form this year. Awoniyi and Aina have been good for Forest, Moffi had an amazing season last year, Kelechi has been good for Leicester. These are clearly decent players, so what is the issue? Why does it seem they can't make a basic pass?

[airwolex]

Lookman is particularly annoying. In Atlanta, he hardly puts a foot wrong. Very good technically with two good feet, he gets here and you think he plays for Remo Stars. Him and his fellow club performer, Chukwueze annoy me so much. They can be doing so much better

[The YeyeMan]

Wow! Thus we didn't lose? It's a good result if you ask me, though a victory against Zimbabwe would have been better, considering we couldn't beat
Lesotho in our backyard, but this result is not bad, at all.

Drawing "away" to Zimbabwe is not a good result.

Soon there'll be a thread which says we didn't play badly after all.

I watched about 5 - 10 minutes of this game and we looked sloppy AF.

[danfo driver]

Lookman is particularly annoying. In Atlanta, he hardly puts a foot wrong. Very good technically with two good feet, he gets here and you think he plays for Remo Stars. Him and his fellow club performer, Chukwueze annoy me so much. They can be doing so much better

BECAUSE HE IS PLAYING AS A STRIKER AT ATALANTA!!!! The tactics is also different there. In the Super Eagles, he plays as a winger.

If you are going to play a striker as a winger, you have to build a structure where he will be successful.

[Rawlings]

Naija do well
2 matches 0 loss

[danfo driver]

Wow! Thus we didn't lose? It's a good result if you ask me, though a victory against Zimbabwe would have been better, considering we couldn't beat
Lesotho in our backyard, but this result is not bad, at all.

Drawing "away" to Zimbabwe is not a good result.

Soon there'll be a thread which says we didn't play badly after all.

I watched about 5 - 10 minutes of this game and we looked sloppy AF.

The mentality of some of the fanbase is so so so bad. And the worse is that it is the same mentality that **** forced them to accept, that Peseiro seems to have carried on and that the team has been built upon.

I dont know if you were on the Zoom call earlier today, but we discussed about this. Our mentality is so so so bad. Needs to change.

[txj]

This will get pushback from the usual FC/LC pundits but I dont think this is a coaching issue at it's core:
1. I don't see great coaching at the national level generally speaking.
2. So, while our coach is not great, he is on par woth all the other below to average managers on the Continent. So at worst we are even at coaching with most of our fellow Africans.

Meaning, if we suck or play poorly (especially the way in which we play poorly) its a talent issue here first an foremost.

I see 3 players I think are average:
Iwobi, Bright and Aina. I see 5 below average in Boniface, Ajayi, Simon, Collins, and Nacho. Everyone else is poor to very poor. I.e. below replacement level. Its hard to be good; talk less great when you have no good players, 3 average players, 5 below average, and everyone else bad.


Coaching cant fix that. Sourcing better technical talent is severely required. Iwobi should be the worst technical midfielder on the team. Not the best and ONLY guy who can pass beyond 5 yards... Thats just pathetic.

How does one then explain their performance at club level? And I'm not talking about the Championship players.

Nothing average about Boniface, Moffi, Lookman, Tella, etc in their clubs.

Even in MF, we have technical players. Are they the level of KDB? Absolutely not!
But the likes of Onyeka, Ndidi, Onyedika, etc can do a top job for you if you have clear ideas about how to play, you pay attention to details, and enforce a high standard. As THEY DO at their clubs!

Again, I have not been watching most of this particular set of players as closely at club level. But as I have long ago noted, an athletic player can excel in a team full of less athletic players who are technically superior to the athlete. So, you put a superior athlete with deficiencies in his game in the midst of 10 less athletic but technically sound players, and the outcome would be better than if you simply had 11 similarly situated technical players.
no no
I have long sensed that we suffer from this problem. We create lots tough no-nonsense-tackling DMs and CBs who are lacking in the finer details, athletic wingers and Big physical specimens for Strikers. But we generally lack that everyday technically and tactically sound guy who isn't special at anything but makes very few mistakes because they a sound in their technical skill and above average in their tactical awareness.

Right now, I only see 2 players who fit that bill. Iwobi and Bright Osayi-Samuel. Aina is borderline too. Everyone else is below technical standards, it seems.


I mean, I couldn't have been the only one who saw, on multiple occasions, an unpressured Nigerian player misplacing passes to a teammate or trying a cross field pass that gets no where close to the intended target. These are not situations where pressure or the opponent's tactics befuddle said players. Both Zimbabwe and Lesotho set up as basic a formation as one could imagine. And our players were just failing at doing basic footballing things well.

Bottomline is you don't know these players or follow them well enough in their clubs.

[danfo driver]

This will get pushback from the usual FC/LC pundits but I dont think this is a coaching issue at it's core:
1. I don't see great coaching at the national level generally speaking.
2. So, while our coach is not great, he is on par woth all the other below to average managers on the Continent. So at worst we are even at coaching with most of our fellow Africans.

Meaning, if we suck or play poorly (especially the way in which we play poorly) its a talent issue here first an foremost.

I see 3 players I think are average:
Iwobi, Bright and Aina. I see 5 below average in Boniface, Ajayi, Simon, Collins, and Nacho. Everyone else is poor to very poor. I.e. below replacement level. Its hard to be good; talk less great when you have no good players, 3 average players, 5 below average, and everyone else bad.


Coaching cant fix that. Sourcing better technical talent is severely required. Iwobi should be the worst technical midfielder on the team. Not the best and ONLY guy who can pass beyond 5 yards... Thats just pathetic.

How does one then explain their performance at club level? And I'm not talking about the Championship players.

Nothing average about Boniface, Moffi, Lookman, Tella, etc in their clubs.

Even in MF, we have technical players. Are they the level of KDB? Absolutely not!
But the likes of Onyeka, Ndidi, Onyedika, etc can do a top job for you if you have clear ideas about how to play, you pay attention to details, and enforce a high standard. As THEY DO at their clubs!

Again, I have not been watching most of this particular set of players as closely at club level. But as I have long ago noted, an athletic player can excel in a team full of less athletic players who are technically superior to the athlete. So, you put a superior athlete with deficiencies in his game in the midst of 10 less athletic but technically sound players, and the outcome would be better than if you simply had 11 similarly situated technical players.
no no
I have long sensed that we suffer from this problem. We create lots tough no-nonsense-tackling DMs and CBs who are lacking in the finer details, athletic wingers and Big physical specimens for Strikers. But we generally lack that everyday technically and tactically sound guy who isn't special at anything but makes very few mistakes because they a sound in their technical skill and above average in their tactical awareness.

Right now, I only see 2 players who fit that bill. Iwobi and Bright Osayi-Samuel. Aina is borderline too. Everyone else is below technical standards, it seems.


I mean, I couldn't have been the only one who saw, on multiple occasions, an unpressured Nigerian player misplacing passes to a teammate or trying a cross field pass that gets no where close to the intended target. These are not situations where pressure or the opponent's tactics befuddle said players. Both Zimbabwe and Lesotho set up as basic a formation as one could imagine. And our players were just failing at doing basic footballing things well.

Bottomline is you don't know these players or follow them well enough in their clubs.

He was the one telling us how Collins "performed" against Lesotho a few days ago. I am tired of this fanbase.

[Odas]

Wow! Thus we didn't lose? It's a good result if you ask me, though a victory against Zimbabwe would have been better, considering we couldn't beat
Lesotho in our backyard, but this result is not bad, at all.

Drawing "away" to Zimbabwe is not a good result.

Soon there'll be a thread which says we didn't play badly after all.

I watched about 5 - 10 minutes of this game and we looked sloppy AF.

Sure! But it's way better than drawing against Lesotho in our backyard

[Bigpokey24]

[Enugu II]

See pressure! Wetin dem dey fear to dey order make persin switch mobile phone off?

[danfo driver]

[Purity]

[waka-man]

Fatzero was on his phone hopefully concluding his deal with Zamalek.

[packerland]

Fatzero was on his phone hopefully concluding his deal with Zamalek.

Or calling his bank to hear his account balance again. As it dey sweet him e dey pain us, as it dey pain us, e dey sweet him.

[Bigpokey24]

[Bigpokey24]

[spastic]

What an Awful position to put yourself in In other words, this guy is bulletproof no matter his results...

[spastic]

Hold on, does this man make 70,000 dollars a month? Did I hear that correctly? I know he hasnt ben paid a dime yet, but he is supposed to earn 70,000 a month?

[Tobi17]

What an Awful position to put yourself in In other words, this guy is bulletproof no matter his results...

Well his contract ends after January so we will have time with a new coach Post-AFCON to press the reset button after the angel* is gone.

I think what will happen is that the NFF will become more influential in the player selections for the AFCON and limit the power of Peseiro to pick his own squad, essentially NFF will pick the players for the AFCON based on popular demands (so lots of new players who haven't gotten their chance at international football will be called up), while some of the deadweights in this current team will be dropped. Pisseiro is more or less now a ceremonial manager who will just see out his contract with little or no coaching decisions till his contract ends in a few months.

[maceo4]

Hold on, does this man make 70,000 dollars a month? Did I hear that correctly? I know he hasnt ben paid a dime yet, but he is supposed to earn 70,000 a month?

Now 50K with renewed contract…

[spastic]

Again, I have not been watching most of this particular set of players as closely at club level. But as I have long ago noted, an athletic player can excel in a team full of less athletic players who are technically superior to the athlete. So, you put a superior athlete with deficiencies in his game in the midst of 10 less athletic but technically sound players, and the outcome would be better than if you simply had 11 similarly situated technical players.
no no
I have long sensed that we suffer from this problem. We create lots tough no-nonsense-tackling DMs and CBs who are lacking in the finer details, athletic wingers and Big physical specimens for Strikers. But we generally lack that everyday technically and tactically sound guy who isn't special at anything but makes very few mistakes because they a sound in their technical skill and above average in their tactical awareness.

Right now, I only see 2 players who fit that bill. Iwobi and Bright Osayi-Samuel. Aina is borderline too. Everyone else is below technical standards, it seems.


I mean, I couldn't have been the only one who saw, on multiple occasions, an unpressured Nigerian player misplacing passes to a teammate or trying a cross field pass that gets no where close to the intended target. These are not situations where pressure or the opponent's tactics befuddle said players. Both Zimbabwe and Lesotho set up as basic a formation as one could imagine. And our players were just failing at doing basic footballing things well.

Bottomline is you don't know these players or follow them well enough in their clubs.

Right! But this does not undermine my point. There are obvious answer to why a bunch of players at different clubs play well at club level but don't do so well for the national team. The perpetual LC-ist Danfo pointed out that Lookman plays at striker at his club but gets played as a winger for Nigeria. Perhaps he lacks the natural skill that one would expect from a wide midfielder. This again supports my theory. And in as much as I don't watch lots of these guys, I watch the ones in the Premier League and the Championship, and my claims are true of those players.
SO for example, this applies to Awoniyi. A physical specimen with strength, power and pace who excels in a mostly defensive team that counterattacks against an open defense where he can bully individual defenders 1 v 1. It is not surprising to me that he struggles on a team that controls possession (albeit poorly) trying to breakdown a sucken defensive line.

Oh just for fun, I just watched a highlight of Boniface's best moves and the same issues I saw in one game were all over the highlights. Poor control of the ball, loose technique, etc. But this is interspersed with great show of driving strength when on the ball, a general decent eye for a pass in attacking phases (something he also shows at the National team) a powerful shot and an ability to hold off defenders easily to bring in teammates.

Now if you take all the qualities Boniface is good at and those he is bad at and transplant it to the Super Eagles context it is easy to see how he might turn out poor performances.

1. He holds of defenders well, but if none of the midfielders are running off him, then this would be of little advantage, and he simply passes back.

2. He has a good eye for a pass in the attacking phase (We saw that in his pass to Awoniyi that was fluffed, and again another pass to the tall guy that also fluffed his chance. There was also an occasion late in the Lesotho game where he noodded back a cross into a dangerous area but none of his teammates thought to attack the ball.

3. We see less of his driving at the opposition because Nigeria moves the ball very slowly and deliberately as many players simply are not technically sound enough to quicken the pace of ball movement. They don't trust their technique and for good reason. It is decidedly poor. So that side of Boniface's game (which is one of his best qualities) is gets negated by our style of play.

4. Now to the negative. He isn't very good at controlling the ball very well; even at club level, he fences a lot as part of his tool to wrestle the ball under control before attacking.

Now, take all the above and apply it to the Nigerian context, and what you get is a strong player with a decent eye for a pass, poor ball control, who seldom gets to run at the opposition or showcase his good vision in attacking areas because he is playing with others who get the ball to the front very slowly. It's not a surprise or a shocker that it looks like he isn't playing as well as he does at club level. Its expected.

[spastic]

Hold on, does this man make 70,000 dollars a month? Did I hear that correctly? I know he hasnt ben paid a dime yet, but he is supposed to earn 70,000 a month?

Now 50K with renewed contract…

Yikes! I suppose you have to pay him comparably to what the better players on the team get at club level.