Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by platinum »

Tunisian Gooner wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
platinum wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Skylolo wrote: I see you have conviniently forgotten other signings like.....Cazorla, Sagna, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Arteta etc etc

You can continue to repeat the same old points and make all the noise you want, see you at Reading next week! Or maybe not, I know we wont see you when we win anyway. :taunt:

Sagna, Koscielny and Mertesacker load of rubbish

Slow down RT... You're driving faster than you can control your vehicle. Those are three top shelf players. If they're not top shelf, they're second level at worst...those are all savvy buys.
Sagna cannot cross to save his life. Mers is slow and cannot win 50-50 headers. Kos is rubbish total and complete rubbish
This is a good side, not great but good.

IMO Arsenal are a shoe in for 4TH and have a real shot at third. The PL is not really that good. Man Utd can't defend to save their lives, simply been carried by a certain Dutch CF. Man City hardly akin to Barca, Chelsea meh... facts are we should been near the top of the table.

Facts are had we taken care of business against vastly inferior sides i.e Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham, Villa and Swansea we be only 3 points behind Man Utd. Fookin can't stand how some Gooners act as if just being competitive with Man Utd is akin to curing hunger and ensuring peace on Earth...JOKE!!!!
dude, you don't help matters with all this talk of 'had we taken care of business'...that's been the issue for years...ifs, buts and what if's...
We ought to be a shoe-in for the UCL, i've been saying that for months but unless we snap out of this funk real quick, it'll be too late.
Evans Bipi, had declared to the press, “Why must [Governor Amaechi] be insulting my mother, my Jesus Christ on earth?”
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by platinum »

realtrouble wrote:
platinum wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Skylolo wrote: I see you have conviniently forgotten other signings like.....Cazorla, Sagna, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Arteta etc etc

You can continue to repeat the same old points and make all the noise you want, see you at Reading next week! Or maybe not, I know we wont see you when we win anyway. :taunt:

Sagna, Koscielny and Mertesacker load of rubbish

Slow down RT... You're driving faster than you can control your vehicle. Those are three top shelf players. If they're not top shelf, they're second level at worst...those are all savvy buys.
Sagna cannot cross to save his life. Mers is slow and cannot win 50-50 headers. Kos is rubbish total and complete rubbish

Sagna can't cross to save his life but the more pertinent question is why on God's green earth is he crossing at all???? We have Giroud and that's it! No one else attacks crosses so what's the point? He's not been voted one of the best RB's in EPL for years for nothing, while I like Jenks, Sagna is still quite a baller (he had a pi$$poor game against Bradford)...
Per is slow but that argument is almost as tired as he is slow. The guy has excellent anticipation and when he's not there, the difference is clear. I should go find the threads of the games he missed to catalog the moanings of gunners but i really dont have the time to do so. The guy is steady as it comes and it's no mistake he's a regular in the German squad.
Kos hasn't kicked off like last season but last year he was one of the best CB's in all of England! This year thing have been shaky for most of the D but even with that he has shown more than enough quality to justify being worth many times more than worth we got him for...
Evans Bipi, had declared to the press, “Why must [Governor Amaechi] be insulting my mother, my Jesus Christ on earth?”
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by paj »

[/video]
Gunners Anthem 8-)
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by platinum »

paj wrote:[/video]
Gunners Anthem 8-)

You stink of denial...
It's like your first love, after she has jilted you and you have 'moved' on and married, you still can't help but ogle at her, and wish she was yours.
Arsenal will still accept you, you don''t have to keep ogling from a distance and shouting 'hey baby'...you can walk up and say hello.
Evans Bipi, had declared to the press, “Why must [Governor Amaechi] be insulting my mother, my Jesus Christ on earth?”
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Skylolo »

"I think I am frankly tired of getting up here and delivering the same message," said Gazidis. "Tuesday night was not good enough and it made us all upset and angry. I would like to apologise to all of you, especially the fans who travelled up there. It was unbelievable support as ever and you deserved better.

"That is something we will work hard to put right," he added. "We all work here and are desperate to deliver the success and trophies we all want. Look into the eyes of the staff here, look at the way they talk. We will get this right. I initially thought this would be a great opportunity to spread Christmas cheer. I don't think it will be but I hope to speak to all of you
In an interview given before Tuesday's tie, Gazidis conceded that the club must try to do better. He told the magazine Four Four Two: "Let's be clear – we don't see Champions League qualification as enough, we are proud of our record, but we want to do more, and we will.

"Irrespective of Financial Fair Play's impact, we will be among the top five most financially powerful clubs in the world by 2014, that is when we will really start competing."

The first monitoring period for FFP comes to an end in May and clubs will find out at the start of the 2014-15 season what penalties they will face from Uefa for failure to comply.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 12085.html
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Tunisian Gooner »

platinum wrote:
Tunisian Gooner wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
platinum wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Skylolo wrote: I see you have conviniently forgotten other signings like.....Cazorla, Sagna, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Arteta etc etc

You can continue to repeat the same old points and make all the noise you want, see you at Reading next week! Or maybe not, I know we wont see you when we win anyway. :taunt:

Sagna, Koscielny and Mertesacker load of rubbish

Slow down RT... You're driving faster than you can control your vehicle. Those are three top shelf players. If they're not top shelf, they're second level at worst...those are all savvy buys.
Sagna cannot cross to save his life. Mers is slow and cannot win 50-50 headers. Kos is rubbish total and complete rubbish
This is a good side, not great but good.

IMO Arsenal are a shoe in for 4TH and have a real shot at third. The PL is not really that good. Man Utd can't defend to save their lives, simply been carried by a certain Dutch CF. Man City hardly akin to Barca, Chelsea meh... facts are we should been near the top of the table.

Facts are had we taken care of business against vastly inferior sides i.e Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham, Villa and Swansea we be only 3 points behind Man Utd. Fookin can't stand how some Gooners act as if just being competitive with Man Utd is akin to curing hunger and ensuring peace on Earth...JOKE!!!!
dude, you don't help matters with all this talk of 'had we taken care of business'...that's been the issue for years...ifs, buts and what if's...
We ought to be a shoe-in for the UCL, i've been saying that for months but unless we snap out of this funk real quick, it'll be too late.
Who's going to go on a big run?

Everton?

Spurs?

Newcastle?

WBA?

Arsenal are a shoe in for 4TH.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Gooner1 »

Skylolo wrote:
"I think I am frankly tired of getting up here and delivering the same message," said Gazidis. "Tuesday night was not good enough and it made us all upset and angry. I would like to apologise to all of you, especially the fans who travelled up there. It was unbelievable support as ever and you deserved better.

"That is something we will work hard to put right," he added. "We all work here and are desperate to deliver the success and trophies we all want. Look into the eyes of the staff here, look at the way they talk. We will get this right. I initially thought this would be a great opportunity to spread Christmas cheer. I don't think it will be but I hope to speak to all of you
In an interview given before Tuesday's tie, Gazidis conceded that the club must try to do better. He told the magazine Four Four Two: "Let's be clear – we don't see Champions League qualification as enough, we are proud of our record, but we want to do more, and we will.

"Irrespective of Financial Fair Play's impact, we will be among the top five most financially powerful clubs in the world by 2014, that is when we will really start competing."

The first monitoring period for FFP comes to an end in May and clubs will find out at the start of the 2014-15 season what penalties they will face from Uefa for failure to comply.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 12085.html
Gazump has no shame at all, he and the board have facilitated in the destruction of our club......we are now the ridicule of the football league, can you imagine? League 2 club taking the piss out of AFC? You can wait for 2014...until the board are ejected and a new coach replaced, it's business s usual....
“If this year, you cannot compete with Spurs, with all the respect I have for them, and Leicester, then change your sport. I’m sorry.” Emmanuel Petit

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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Coach »

"Irrespective of Financial Fair Play's impact, we will be among the top five most financially powerful clubs in the world by 2014, that is when we will really start competing."

Thats where you're wrong Gummy bear, the resorts. tourist attractions and floating of shares on stock markets promises to generate huge sums of revenue for the big boys to play with. Coupled with their successes here and now, Gatzidis' war rhetoric is as flawed as Manny Pacquiao vs Mr Marquez. The point is, between now and 2014, Arsenal will become progressively weaker, fall further and further behind the leading pack. 2012 and this shower of sh*t are atleast 5 players away from competing with the top 3, all of whom will strengthen in summer. With the promise of departing next Henry's and the prospect of lining up alongside cerebrally challenged Yao Tubes and failures like Podolski, who'll want to join this sinking ship on its plummet to the doldrums? More Gervaises and Lukases. Gatzidis is a complete fool, talking over the heads of the unknowing who nod heads in agreement sans understanding. FFP will not be the pale white horse that saves Arsenal, it will consolidate power at the top, a position Arsenal far, far from.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Gooner1 »

Fact remains.....AFC have no more 'real' assets that anyone wants, bar Whilshere. Once he gets sold off, the bigger clubs won't come calling because we have no other quality in the main squad.....
Toral, Gnarby, Aneke, Eisfeld will all be sold off in time.....

AFC - Arsenal Feeder Club
“If this year, you cannot compete with Spurs, with all the respect I have for them, and Leicester, then change your sport. I’m sorry.” Emmanuel Petit

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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

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Chei....see Yab from a League 2 pub player? :roll:
Torquay are Better than Arsenal says Bradford skipper
Posted on December 13, 2012 by Bob

Arsenal fans may have thought that things could not get any worse after Tuesday,s humiliating exit from the Capital One cup, but the captain of Bradford City, Gary Jones, has rubbed some salt vigorously into our wounds by stating that their last game, against 10 man Torquay United, was a tougher test of their resolve.

“I think Torquay gave us a tougher game.

“It was like a role reversal against them. Torquay defended well against us, and we defended really well against Arsenal.

“No disrespect to us and our lads, but they should be beating Bradford City. But team spirit means a lot and it can take a team a long way.

“When we saw their team sheet, we couldn’t believe it.

“We thought they would have a lot of youth players and a bit of experience, but nothing like that turned up. They came here and it was probably the best chance of a trophy they’ll have this year. I think it was Arsene Wenger’s worse nightmare going to penalties.”

Wenger probably wishes he did pick more young players now, as they would probably have given a lot more for the Arsenal cause. The manager should read this statement to the players and get them to realise how little fight they put up. We need a drastic response on Sunday when we travel to Reading. Another poor showing from the highly paid players is just unacceptable.
“If this year, you cannot compete with Spurs, with all the respect I have for them, and Leicester, then change your sport. I’m sorry.” Emmanuel Petit

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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by cchinukw »

platinum wrote:
Gooner1 wrote:It's official.......Pep wants to takeover Arsenal next year.......
Knowing the club, they will turn him down for this custard tart of a manager
Representatives of the former Barcelona manager have let it be known to the north London club that he would be very keen to be considered for the manager’s job if it was to become available next year.

Guardiola, who is on a year’s sabbatical in New York, is in the frame for leading posts in England, as well as Continental giants like AC Milan, Inter Milan, Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain.
'ARSENAL HAVE NO PLANS TO SACK WENGER'

Arsenal have no plans to sack Arsene Wenger. Or, indeed, discuss the possibility of the all-powerful Frenchman being replaced mid-season.

That is out of the question for a board who hold the manager in such high esteem for the glory years and then nursing the club through the move to Emirates Stadium that drained their finances.

The embarrassing defeat to League Two minnows Bradford City will hurt supporters far more than the club’s majority owner ‘Silent Stan’ Kroenke, whose radar is unlikely to have been interfered by the Capital One Cup.

For the Arsenal directors, it is all about finishing in the top four and retaining their place aboard the Champions League gravy train.

Rightly or wrongly, Wenger will have a big say in his departure date. If he feels his methods are no longer working, there is a growing feeling he will walk away.

Arsenal’s decline has been evident for two or three years. Wenger’s youth project failed and the collateral damage has been all the star players jumping off the sinking ship.

Mistakes are rife; the inefficient £143 million wage bill; the funds that have been left stubbornly in the bank; the ‘jobs for the boys’ ethos; the lack of boardroom direction.

From the outside, it looks like a mess.

Wayne Veysey | Chief Correspondent

Sources have told Goal.com that Guardiola’s Premier League preference is to take the reins at Arsenal, ahead of Chelsea, Manchester City and Manchester United.
That would be the ideal situation...Pep is a manager with an ideology, much like Arsene. I'd kick Wenger to the curb in a heartbeat for Pep. Not necessarily because Pep is better but because he has fresh ideas and is hungry. Arsene's sell-by date is come and gone, I'm increasingly convinced of that. Last year it first started to dawn on me, this year I know it. It's not a matter of whether he's good or not, the club needs a new voice, the players are nonchalant...even new buys come in and within week's they see the culture and become rubbish. Something's gotta give...
O Lord send us a deliverer in Pep Guardiola. Release us from our oppressors on the board and the bench. :twisted:
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PEP Guardiola wants ARSENAL job.

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Re: PEP Guardiola wants ARSENAL job.

Post by Obiagu »

AW will die first before anyone takes his job from him. The guy is so full of himself it's unbeleivable!!
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Re: PEP Guardiola wants ARSENAL job.

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Prof. Wenger could be sacked next year to make way for Pep G.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Coach »

Arsenal crisis deepens as Wenger's relationship with No 2 Bould is pushed to breaking point and players demanding extra training
By SAMI MOKBEL

Arsenal's faltering season is being hampered by growing tensions between manager Arsene Wenger and his assistant Steve Bould.

Sources claim Bould, who replaced the retired Pat Rice as No 2 at the end of last season, has become increasingly marginalised at the club's London Colney HQ in recent weeks.

It is believed the title-winning defender, whose salary of £1.5million is half that earned by the England manager Roy Hodgson, has grown frustrated at his lack of input into first-team matters.

Certain players are also understood to want more defensive-based training sessions on a regular basis.

Distance between Wenger and Bould, a former Arsenal defender, is so big that, when the boss missed training the day before Arsenal were beaten 2-0 at home by Swansea, fitness coach Tony Colbert took the session.

Pressure on Wenger is at an all-time high following Tuesday's humiliating Capital One Cup defeat to Bradford, a League Two side made up of 10 free transfers.

Speaking on Wednesday former Arsenal player Stewart Robson, who was employed by the club up until last year (obviously harbours bad blood), added weight to the talk of training ground problems.

'Arsene Wenger, because he has got a massive ego, because he's a dictator when it comes to Arsenal Football Club, he’s not allowing Steve Bould to do any work,' said Robson.
'
He’s got a reputation for developing players. Maybe he did that six, seven years ago. He’s actually putting players backwards now.

'I’ve seen Gervinho play for the Ivory Coast before he came to Arsenal, he was a good player. I saw [Andrey] Arshavin play for Russia and Zenit St Petersburg, he was a good player. I've seen [Aaron] Ramsey play for the Welsh Under-21s, he's a good player.

'Arsene Wenger is not doing enough on the training field. He’s not coaching the players, they have got no game strategy and, because he won't let anyone else do it, Arsenal are going backwards and some of their players are going backwards


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z2EwHij0mZ
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Re: PEP Guardiola wants ARSENAL job.

Post by Mr. Piffington »

Right. We believe you.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Skylolo »

Coach wrote:Arsenal crisis deepens as Wenger's relationship with No 2 Bould is pushed to breaking point and players demanding extra training
By SAMI MOKBEL

Arsenal's faltering season is being hampered by growing tensions between manager Arsene Wenger and his assistant Steve Bould.

Sources claim Bould, who replaced the retired Pat Rice as No 2 at the end of last season, has become increasingly marginalised at the club's London Colney HQ in recent weeks.

It is believed the title-winning defender, whose salary of £1.5million is half that earned by the England manager Roy Hodgson, has grown frustrated at his lack of input into first-team matters.

Certain players are also understood to want more defensive-based training sessions on a regular basis.

Distance between Wenger and Bould, a former Arsenal defender, is so big that, when the boss missed training the day before Arsenal were beaten 2-0 at home by Swansea, fitness coach Tony Colbert took the session.

Pressure on Wenger is at an all-time high following Tuesday's humiliating Capital One Cup defeat to Bradford, a League Two side made up of 10 free transfers.

Speaking on Wednesday former Arsenal player Stewart Robson, who was employed by the club up until last year (obviously harbours bad blood), added weight to the talk of training ground problems.

'Arsene Wenger, because he has got a massive ego, because he's a dictator when it comes to Arsenal Football Club, he’s not allowing Steve Bould to do any work,' said Robson.
'
He’s got a reputation for developing players. Maybe he did that six, seven years ago. He’s actually putting players backwards now.

'I’ve seen Gervinho play for the Ivory Coast before he came to Arsenal, he was a good player. I saw [Andrey] Arshavin play for Russia and Zenit St Petersburg, he was a good player. I've seen [Aaron] Ramsey play for the Welsh Under-21s, he's a good player.

'Arsene Wenger is not doing enough on the training field. He’s not coaching the players, they have got no game strategy and, because he won't let anyone else do it, Arsenal are going backwards and some of their players are going backwards


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z2EwHij0mZ
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Last season it was a rift between Gazidiz and Wenger..

This year it is a rift between Wenger and Steve Bould...because that disgruntled loose cannon Stuart Robson is seeing things :roll:

We dont need reporters to make these stories up, we can make these stories up on CE ourselves.. :rotf:
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Coach »

@Waffylolo, maybe, but its interesting to read that those one aboard the ship have such views of the admiral.

'He’s got a reputation for developing players. Maybe he did that six, seven years ago. He’s actually putting players backwards now.

'I’ve seen Gervinho play for the Ivory Coast before he came to Arsenal, he was a good player. I saw [Andrey] Arshavin play for Russia and Zenit St Petersburg, he was a good player. I've seen [Aaron] Ramsey play for the Welsh Under-21s, he's a good player.

'Arsene Wenger is not doing enough on the training field. He’s not coaching the players, they have got no game strategy and, because he won't let anyone else do it, Arsenal are going backwards and some of their players are going backwards'.


Where is Walcott today, lest we forget the promise that surrounded his name? Why is he in the shadows of Bale? Ramsey was courted, aggressively by Man United, where is he today? Where is Fabianski, ready to be number 1 a few seasons back?...Even Oxlade looks a shadow of the player he was last year, Vermaellen is going backwards too.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Gooner1 »

Coach wrote:@Waffylolo, maybe, but its interesting to read that those one aboard the ship have such views of the admiral.

'He’s got a reputation for developing players. Maybe he did that six, seven years ago. He’s actually putting players backwards now.

'I’ve seen Gervinho play for the Ivory Coast before he came to Arsenal, he was a good player. I saw [Andrey] Arshavin play for Russia and Zenit St Petersburg, he was a good player. I've seen [Aaron] Ramsey play for the Welsh Under-21s, he's a good player.

'Arsene Wenger is not doing enough on the training field. He’s not coaching the players, they have got no game strategy and, because he won't let anyone else do it, Arsenal are going backwards and some of their players are going backwards'.


Where is Walcott today, lest we forget the promise that surrounded his name? Why is he in the shadows of Bale? Ramsey was courted, aggressively by Man United, where is he today? Where is Fabianski, ready to be number 1 a few seasons back?...Even Oxlade looks a shadow of the player he was last year, Vermaellen is going backwards too.
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

If Weng-lair knew wht he was really doing as regards tactics, & development of players......he would of won the Beer cup by now.....hell Dalglish won something @ Liverpool and got to the final of the FA cup before he was sacked.....Weng-liar hasn't even won a plastic cup......Make Waffi no enta dis site again with BS statistics, dodgy rumours of ex-players and blockus advertising deals......nonsense :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: How David Deins Departure damaged Arsenal

Post by Al B Sure »

18th April 2007 – When it all started to go wrong


On this day, David Dein left the Arsenal board with immediate effect, due to irreconcilable differences with the rest of the board. Dein’s misdemeanour? He sought to introduce a wealthy American benefactor, Stan Kroenke to the club, the rest of the board balked; Peter Hill Wood stated that “(Kroenke) wasn’t our sort” and Dein was shunted out, faster than you could say G-14. Four years later (almost to the day) Kroenke completed the effective takeover of Arsenal Football Club, with the wholehearted support and endorsement of the same board that sacked Dein.

David Dein isn’t perfect, but there are few Arsenal supporters with his passion for the club. He built up a very successful business in the 1970’s, when building a successful business wasn’t easy, and then, in 1983, spent a huge proportion of his accumulated wealth on a £292,000 investment in Arsenal – Peter Hill Wood said at the time that he was crazy. Dein ultimately sold his shares in the club for £75 million, not a bad return…, but I don’t think he ever saw Arsenal as an investment opportunity; he bought sufficient shares to get on the board and then manoeuvred to assume a senior position. Dein had passion, drive and a clear idea of where he thought Arsenal should be, back at the top.
Dein’s was an unusual football club director. In most clubs, it’s the manager who hectors the board for funds to buy players; therefore they are the risk takers and can often afford to be so, as they rarely have a financial stake in the club. Dein was very different, when managers were prevaricating as to whether or not to buy a player; it was he who administered the necessary kick in the arse to get the deal done. Ian Wright, Denis Bergkamp, Marc Overmars, all arrived due to Dein’s insistence that the manager was doing the right thing, he provided the vital lead in the pencil for both George Graham and Arsene Wenger. When Dein was ousted Mr Wenger offered to resign in support, that’s testament to their friendship, but also indicative of Dein’s contribution to Arsenal.


There’s a story, probably apocryphal, about ex President Lyndon Johnson. Asked why he didn’t get rid of J Edgar Hoover on his election in 1964, (Hoover had created huge problems for the Kennedys), he replied, “He’s better inside the tent pissing out, rather than outside the tent pissing in.” When the Arsenal board jettisoned David Dein, they ran the risk of creating a significant enemy. Obviously we all know of his involvement with Usmanov and their vehicle Red and White Holdings, but I believe that although Dein may have good reason to hold a grudge against certain board members, he would never to do anything to harm the club. In fact his resignation from Red and White was apparently to proffer an olive branch to the club; if that’s the case, the board at Arsenal are yet to accept it.

I think Dein can still be a fantastic asset to Arsenal; he is one of the most highly respected senior figures in football and the he bleeds red and white. He’s just what we need, he would provide an effective sounding board for the manager and wouldn’t be afraid to challenge him, and when the time’s right, he would seek out and recruit a replacement. He was instrumental in the appointments of both Graham and Wenger, two appointments which completely re-vitalised the club, because they were exactly what the club was crying out for at the time. I think we are crying out for a change at board level right now. I know it’s unlikely, but the only way back for Dein, is for him to make entreaties to the Kroenke cabal. I sincerely hope he does so, as I have a genuine fear that the Arsenal board is every bit as arrogant as they come across at AGMs. It’s therefore also highly likely that anyone suggesting a change in the direction and makeup of the board is wasting their breath, but if they are concerned about their supporters’ perceptions, they should open the door for David Dein. We need him and so do they.

By Ian Byrne
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by platinum »

New deals in the works at Arsenal for Wilshere and.....Ramsey.
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Re: Arsenal Related News & Developments - 2012/13 Season.

Post by Gooner1 »

platinum wrote:New deals in the works at Arsenal for Wilshere and.....Ramsey.
Like I said nothing will change until we get rid of Weng-liar and the board.......Ramsey has consistently proven that he is a wastepipe more times than he has shown to have promise...... :roll:
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