NIGERIA 0 V 1 GERMANY GAME THREAD

[theYemster]

Lets see the excuses at the next youth world cup as some of you call it, same old, once again poor defending and poor decisions has been killing Nigerian football since 1994, sometimes, i just wished we pack it in and look for another sport to excel in, we just dont cut it in football, we are just there to make up the numbers

The problem is our attitude, not the sport. Regardless of whatever sport we take up, the outcome will be the same.

We need an attitude adjustment. We need altruistic AND knowledgeable people.

[Damunk]

If the analysis of the Nigerian team's weaknesses is predicated on 'brainlessness', then I'm sorry, it aint going anywhere beneficial. The fact that you are not calling it out suggests you probably subscribe to the 'diagnosis'.
A constructive discussion is what we want, not some 'brainless', free-for-all shouting match.


Just cus I refuse to partake in ur decision to acknowledge such emotional clap trap to be anything more serious than mere hot air, does not mean I subscribe to it. For everyone of such outbursts, there are legions on practically every football fan forum on the internet.

Your (erroneous) view that I am trying to 'foreclose' the discussion also hints at your own refusal to acknowledge the wide gap in the two teams, evident not only on the field of play, but also backed up by the 'CV' profiles of the players. Anyone pushing the argument that the Nigerian coach is clueless/brainless and the players of 'low IQ' will not be served by acknowledging the difference in pedigree of the German players.

We are happy to talk about Isaac Success and his 'experience' over the others, but not the Germans.
We can't have our cake and still eat it.

The fact you keep harping on 'pedigree of players' in a youth tournament tells me all I need to know about your tendency to default to excuse making, along with the likes of Cellular and Gotti. If a Nigerian player was playing at the same club as the German captain, we would be ridiculing him!

The issue is not pedigree, its about the quality of talent development. And what u should be harping on for instance, is the corruption in our game that leads to the practice of 'parking' youth players in pseudo-academies rather than exposing them to the NPL, even with its own limitations.

And BTW, 'experience' when used in the context of youth tournaments in Nigeria, is usually a code word for use of overaged players. Lets hope we don't dig even deeper a hole for ourselves...

I'm game for discussing any form of corruption in our system as long as it is based on facts and not BPG.
You for instance are notorious for your tenacious preoccupation with one-upmanship and a tendency to patronise those with an opposing view, ascribing to yourself some kind of superior knowledge.
Not everyone has that kind of time to be going round in circles.
Your quiet insistence on smearing our 'overage' U17s of the 2013 WC that somehow beat the MRI scans without an iota of proof on your part refers.

[F360]

Now there is a massive leap from U-17 to U-20, the gulf in class is so massive, believing we can easily graduate U-17 players who are not even playing regularly at a decent level is akin to self deception and refusing to face the truth.

MOTM Man City U21 vs Porto U21 suggests he's good enough for this level.
Plus just watch at how good he has been in the last two months for ManCity U21.

That is why you see players trying to take on 3 players when a simple pass would have sufficed.

I dunno. Maybe because we are playing gra gra footballers instead of starting the intelligent players like Yahaya and Iheanacho, who pass the ball, when its the best option?

Something tells me there was trouble in the camp, these days because all the players are made to dress and sit on the bench we dont really know if the coach has excluded them from the team.

If so, I blame the coach for alienating his 4 star players. Terrible man management.

Yeah that is why England has U-21 here...that apart how many matches has he played coming into this tourney? As far as Nacho is concerned the issue around him is simply fitness..biko try to separate issues, i agree i bunched everything up. I highlighted my reason when i mentioned stepping up..i thought it was obvious i implied team play in the Nigerian context?

I gotta disagree with you here sir. England U-21/U20's not being in the tournament has nothing to do with the quality of play in the U21 system for English clubs. A fair amount of foreign players play for the various clubs U-21 sides. Some of them in this same U-20 WC.
Also, I believe Nacho played between 7-10 matches for City's U-21s and U-18s coming into the tourney. How many matches do we know that Bulbwa and Saviour played at their Academy's before coming into the tourney? More than 10 on the season? If more than 10, what number would be enough to equal the competition level that one receives when playing U-21 level vs Man United and Chelsea U-21s? Nacho's fitness seemed fine for Vieira at the U-21 level with Man. City.
I don't think the issue with him was simply fitness. I also doubt that Manu had issues with Success, Nacho or Yahaya. I just think it was overreaction on Manu's part to the first game that led him to the replacements for the 2nd game. When the team got the win, I feel Manu just decided to stick with what worked and that led to the downfall in the Germany match.

[Damunk]

Now there is a massive leap from U-17 to U-20, the gulf in class is so massive, believing we can easily graduate U-17 players who are not even playing regularly at a decent level is akin to self deception and refusing to face the truth.

MOTM Man City U21 vs Porto U21 suggests he's good enough for this level.
Plus just watch at how good he has been in the last two months for ManCity U21.

That is why you see players trying to take on 3 players when a simple pass would have sufficed.

I dunno. Maybe because we are playing gra gra footballers instead of starting the intelligent players like Yahaya and Iheanacho, who pass the ball, when its the best option?

Something tells me there was trouble in the camp, these days because all the players are made to dress and sit on the bench we dont really know if the coach has excluded them from the team.

If so, I blame the coach for alienating his 4 star players. Terrible man management.

Yeah that is why England has U-21 here...that apart how many matches has he played coming into this tourney? As far as Nacho is concerned the issue around him is simply fitness..biko try to separate issues, i agree i bunched everything up. I highlighted my reason when i mentioned stepping up..i thought it was obvious i implied team play in the Nigerian context?

I gotta disagree with you here sir. England U-21/U20's not being in the tournament has nothing to do with the quality of play in the U21 system for English clubs. A fair amount of foreign players play for the various clubs U-21 sides. Some of them in this same U-20 WC.
Also, I believe Nacho played between 7-10 matches for City's U-21s and U-18s coming into the tourney. How many matches do we know that Bulbwa and Saviour played at their Academy's before coming into the tourney? More than 10 on the season? If more than 10, what number would be enough to equal the competition level that one receives when playing U-21 level vs Man United and Chelsea U-21s? Nacho's fitness seemed fine for Vieira at the U-21 level with Man. City.
I don't think the issue with him was simply fitness. I also doubt that Manu had issues with Success, Nacho or Yahaya. I just think it was overreaction on Manu's part to the first game that led him to the replacements for the 2nd game. When the team got the win, I feel Manu just decided to stick with what worked and that led to the downfall in the Germany match.

Simple.
Everyone makes errors of judgement.
It's either that or the man's hands were forced by circumstances we are not privy to at the moment. Hopefully, with all the furore, Manu might feel obliged to let us into his thinking.
Until then, I won't be party to this vicious maligning of the man or the boys out of my frustration.

[oloye]

Now there is a massive leap from U-17 to U-20, the gulf in class is so massive, believing we can easily graduate U-17 players who are not even playing regularly at a decent level is akin to self deception and refusing to face the truth.

MOTM Man City U21 vs Porto U21 suggests he's good enough for this level.
Plus just watch at how good he has been in the last two months for ManCity U21.

That is why you see players trying to take on 3 players when a simple pass would have sufficed.

I dunno. Maybe because we are playing gra gra footballers instead of starting the intelligent players like Yahaya and Iheanacho, who pass the ball, when its the best option?

Something tells me there was trouble in the camp, these days because all the players are made to dress and sit on the bench we dont really know if the coach has excluded them from the team.

If so, I blame the coach for alienating his 4 star players. Terrible man management.

Yeah that is why England has U-21 here...that apart how many matches has he played coming into this tourney? As far as Nacho is concerned the issue around him is simply fitness..biko try to separate issues, i agree i bunched everything up. I highlighted my reason when i mentioned stepping up..i thought it was obvious i implied team play in the Nigerian context?

I gotta disagree with you here sir. England U-21/U20's not being in the tournament has nothing to do with the quality of play in the U21 system for English clubs. A fair amount of foreign players play for the various clubs U-21 sides. Some of them in this same U-20 WC.
Also, I believe Nacho played between 7-10 matches for City's U-21s and U-18s coming into the tourney. How many matches do we know that Bulbwa and Saviour played at their Academy's before coming into the tourney? More than 10 on the season? If more than 10, what number would be enough to equal the competition level that one receives when playing U-21 level vs Man United and Chelsea U-21s? Nacho's fitness seemed fine for Vieira at the U-21 level with Man. City.
I don't think the issue with him was simply fitness. I also doubt that Manu had issues with Success, Nacho or Yahaya. I just think it was overreaction on Manu's part to the first game that led him to the replacements for the 2nd game. When the team got the win, I feel Manu just decided to stick with what worked and that led to the downfall in the Germany match.

The problem i have with you here is that , number one you need to understand what the U-21 team of clubs are for..they are there to be used as training. You said Nacho was fit enough for Man City u-21, you simply make it obvious that this point has gone missing on you here. The U21 as well as the reserves team are there solely for one thing... to help players get fit. He would be featured as long as his training schedule for his recovery from injury says he is fit to kick and play. He does not need any particular level of fitness to play the U-21, other than being certified to be ready. He would be eased in with minutes increasing with each match. To compare that level of fitness to the fitness at world cup level, i am sorry ..we should not be having this debate if you feel they are the same.

[wanaj0]

How many of the foreign players playing in for the English clubs U21 are on display? What percentage of those youth players went on to have successful careers for with the senior teams?

[metalalloy]

I'm game for discussing any form of corruption in our system as long as it is based on facts and not BPG.
You for instance are notorious for your tenacious preoccupation with one-upmanship and a tendency to patronise those with an opposing view, ascribing to yourself some kind of superior knowledge.
Not everyone has that kind of time to be going round in circles.
Your quiet insistence on smearing our 'overage' U17s of the 2013 WC that somehow beat the MRI scans without an iota of proof on your part refers.

LMAO! #delusions of grandeur

[metalalloy]

I gotta disagree with you here sir. England U-21/U20's not being in the tournament has nothing to do with the quality of play in the U21 system for English clubs. A fair amount of foreign players play for the various clubs U-21 sides. Some of them in this same U-20 WC.
Also, I believe Nacho played between 7-10 matches for City's U-21s and U-18s coming into the tourney. How many matches do we know that Bulbwa and Saviour played at their Academy's before coming into the tourney? More than 10 on the season? If more than 10, what number would be enough to equal the competition level that one receives when playing U-21 level vs Man United and Chelsea U-21s? Nacho's fitness seemed fine for Vieira at the U-21 level with Man. City.
I don't think the issue with him was simply fitness. I also doubt that Manu had issues with Success, Nacho or Yahaya. I just think it was overreaction on Manu's part to the first game that led him to the replacements for the 2nd game. When the team got the win, I feel Manu just decided to stick with what worked and that led to the downfall in the Germany match.

Has manu come out and said that any of his players were not fit? So their fitness could not be ascertained until after the first game of the tourney? Until i see a statement from him, all of dis one is just hot air manufactured by CE "okachamaras" aka "ITK" aka "beer parlor expert"

[marutimon]

Iheanacho may have had fitness issues 2 months ago. But just prior to the U20 World Cup he was playing at such a level that fans and coaches of Man City were discussing whether he's ready for the first team as third / fourth choice striker.

[Siddonlook11]

So wey Muyiwa Inner caucus to tell us the reason why some players where benched ...maybe na koboko this time no be slippers.. Abeg I really wan hear wetin happen for New Zealand.

[marutimon]

Mr Sowiz claims indiscipline.
All Nigeria Soccer claims that Kelechi refused to pay a bribe to Ugbade, while Saviour's agent did all he could to have him play.

Take your pick as to who you believe.

[metalalloy]

Mr Sowiz claims indiscipline.
All Nigeria Soccer claims that Kelechi refused to pay a bribe to Ugbade, while Saviour's agent did all he could to have him play.

Take your pick as to who you believe.

Please do not post anything from that certified lunatic on here.

[marutimon]

OK. Mr Mowiz however also wrote: "Owner/Chairman of one local team in Nigeria also wanted his ward to be played at all cost...I won't mention if he got to play or not"

[txj]

If the analysis of the Nigerian team's weaknesses is predicated on 'brainlessness', then I'm sorry, it aint going anywhere beneficial. The fact that you are not calling it out suggests you probably subscribe to the 'diagnosis'.
A constructive discussion is what we want, not some 'brainless', free-for-all shouting match.


Just cus I refuse to partake in ur decision to acknowledge such emotional clap trap to be anything more serious than mere hot air, does not mean I subscribe to it. For everyone of such outbursts, there are legions on practically every football fan forum on the internet.

Your (erroneous) view that I am trying to 'foreclose' the discussion also hints at your own refusal to acknowledge the wide gap in the two teams, evident not only on the field of play, but also backed up by the 'CV' profiles of the players. Anyone pushing the argument that the Nigerian coach is clueless/brainless and the players of 'low IQ' will not be served by acknowledging the difference in pedigree of the German players.

We are happy to talk about Isaac Success and his 'experience' over the others, but not the Germans.
We can't have our cake and still eat it.

The fact you keep harping on 'pedigree of players' in a youth tournament tells me all I need to know about your tendency to default to excuse making, along with the likes of Cellular and Gotti. If a Nigerian player was playing at the same club as the German captain, we would be ridiculing him!

The issue is not pedigree, its about the quality of talent development. And what u should be harping on for instance, is the corruption in our game that leads to the practice of 'parking' youth players in pseudo-academies rather than exposing them to the NPL, even with its own limitations.

And BTW, 'experience' when used in the context of youth tournaments in Nigeria, is usually a code word for use of overaged players. Lets hope we don't dig even deeper a hole for ourselves...

I'm game for discussing any form of corruption in our system as long as it is based on facts and not BPG.
You for instance are notorious for your tenacious preoccupation with one-upmanship and a tendency to patronise those with an opposing view, ascribing to yourself some kind of superior knowledge.
Not everyone has that kind of time to be going round in circles.
Your quiet insistence on smearing our 'overage' U17s of the 2013 WC that somehow beat the MRI scans without an iota of proof on your part refers.

Perhaps u can address/focus on the issues?

Like I said, it is erroneous to speak of pedigree and experience in a youth tournament. We can speak about preparation, the quality of a program as well as talent development, but most certainly not about experience...

[F360]

The problem i have with you here is that , number one you need to understand what the U-21 team of clubs are for..they are there to be used as training. You said Nacho was fit enough for Man City u-21, you simply make it obvious that this point has gone missing on you here. The U21 as well as the reserves team are there solely for one thing... to help players get fit. He would be featured as long as his training schedule for his recovery from injury says he is fit to kick and play. He does not need any particular level of fitness to play the U-21, other than being certified to be ready. He would be eased in with minutes increasing with each match. To compare that level of fitness to the fitness at world cup level, i am sorry ..we should not be having this debate if you feel they are the same.

Ah I gotta disagree slightly there. The U-21's/reserves(they're now basically the same thing, they just changed the name last season I think) aren't just for training or to help players get fit. They are to help the EXPERIENCED and regular 1st team squad members get fit. For the younger players, it's a higher competition than youth team football and it steps up the intensity from that level whilst being below Premiership football in terms of competitiveness. Either way, I'm willing to bet that the competition that Man.City U21s face is just a little more intense than the competition that members of Shuttle Academy and FC Sports.
For a young player that hasn't broken into the first team, the U21 is to bring up the level of competition for the player whilst getting and keeping them in peak fitness shape so when a call up to the first team squad arrives, they aren't out of place.
The World Cup level is U20 World Cup level not the actual World Cup level. They are players on various teams that are still playing reserve football in various leagues or playing in College in America or playing in local Academies...like our Nigeria team. Teams (including Germany) don't consist of players that are all playing regular 1st team football at their clubs. A lot of them are playing reserve football or on loan at lower division clubs.