Re: 2013/2014 CHELSEA RUMOR TRANSFER/DEVELOPMENT THREAD!!!!

[paj]

G4L,
I disagree.. Your quip with Mata has always been about his inability to withstand the physical/defensive battle.. Get shoved off ball easily and so on..

The debate with txj is on intelligence and as far as AM/playing in the hole is concerned, mata does it more intelligently than Oscar.. You can't downgrade a player's intelligence because e no sabi how to mark/defend.. That is a skill set he just does not have..

As for disappearing in big games.. depends on which big game una wan complain of.. IMO, when CFC is on the back foot and forced to defend, Mata is short one as evident in UCL... As has been pointed out already..

Given his all round game, Oscar definitely provides greater tactical balance, but it will come at the cost of greater offensive play. I agree we are yet to see the best of Oscar but currently, Mata is the better AM IMO.

I agree. I think despite Mata's lack of physical presence you can kinda see weaknesses in Chelsea's overall play against physical teams(Juve,City) so you can't single out Mata. There are sometimes things missing in our movement and sometimes the other team is just simply quicker to the ball(Bayern,Barca). We didnt have the sort of pressing game that Jose wants now so we went ultra defensive and hoped to launch counters..we ceded possession to teams that demanded it.Mata has more accurate passing and shooting while Oscar is stronger all over the field(dude can run for ages)....
Pa

Sorry but I think you two bros are dreaming, talking about Mata being the better AM.

Intelligence wise there isn't much separating the two. They both have good vision tho Mata currently is better in picking that final pass. Not surprising cuz he's a specialist at it (its all he focuses on and doesn't bother wining any balls). He was perfect for CFC when the club didn't have any creative 10s. He can chill, eat a burger & fries while waiting for hustlers around him to feed him more food.

But now tori done change small. There are others who can play there and still give you that balance (Oscar & Hazard ... Jury out on KdB). And top coaches notice these weaknesses and are always looking to improve (Rafa busted up Mazacar trio due to this and now Jose seems to be leaning the same way).

Tactical balance or lack thereof is exposed against good opposition. Assuming Oscar can be equally effective at 10 against the likes of Hull & them (tho he may not rack up more offensive stats), the tipping point becomes performance against bigger teams. Mata doesn't always disappear but when he does its painfully obvious that you're playing short one. It also limits what you can do going forward as the entire team has to compensate. You're right: UCL is a painful exhibit. ... Did he play against Barca home or away? Name one thing he did. ... Bayern nko? Was he dia? Also in Confed Cup, you saw how he vanished in the game. After the first 5mins of that game when I saw Oscar & them on him like white on rice, I knew it was going to be rough for Mata.

Nonetheless, I love the bobo as well (Mata) and won't trade him for anything b/c he's very good but let's not kid ourselves about the impact of his limitations. And good managers always say "we are happy, although we're unhappy"

1.It was his first season and had played A LOT more matches in one season then he experienced before-fatigue
2.He apparently wasn't as physical as any of his teammates who were EPL veterans...dat na like tossing an Ajebota into the mix of Ajepakis wey dem don chook army injection it will be obvious.David Silva was no different in his first season..difference is Mancini, being Italian,worked on him to improve him physicality..not sure Chelsea coaches have bothered to do that..perhaps scared that could affect the way he plays?
Everyone "disappeared" in that game vs Brasil so U can't single Mata out...Iniest did, Xavi did,even Navas the jackrabbit didnt do jack..not sure what was in the air but this was the same team that demolished others inthe Euros..so U can't pick out one match bro..
He is lightweight physically, but he more than makes up for it in the stats.He reads the game very very well and @ his physical best knows how to pop up in the box and smash it in...Trading him would be a huge mistake..will benefit Chelsea more to make him more physical..pretty much like Jose did with Ozil @ Madrid..it's no secret why other teams are drooling to have him..even the so called "physical" teams(e.g. Athletico Madrid) because they so something we'd be foolish to give up because we think we have too much of it..
Pa

[Bigpokey24]

Oscar is a much better player than Mata

[phantomjournalist]

There's also the possibility he could be involved in an exchange for Wayne Rooney..

One of the dumbest ideas brought about in this transfer season.

Just imagine Mata operating behind RVP in the number 10 position. Simply not going to happen. Such an exchange would benefit Man U more than it would Chelsea.

[txj]

G4L,
I disagree.. Your quip with Mata has always been about his inability to withstand the physical/defensive battle.. Get shoved off ball easily and so on..

The debate with txj is on intelligence and as far as AM/playing in the hole is concerned, mata does it more intelligently than Oscar.. You can't downgrade a player's intelligence because e no sabi how to mark/defend.. That is a skill set he just does not have..

As for disappearing in big games.. depends on which big game una wan complain of.. IMO, when CFC is on the back foot and forced to defend, Mata is short one as evident in UCL... As has been pointed out already..

Given his all round game, Oscar definitely provides greater tactical balance, but it will come at the cost of greater offensive play. I agree we are yet to see the best of Oscar but currently, Mata is the better AM IMO.

I think you need some more guidance from G4L...

Your debate with me is about overall abilities of both players vis a vis Jose's team.

And overall Oscar is the superior player. To repeat myself, he thinks of the game at a higher level than Mata, and not just in the #10 role.

yes Mata is creative; he is flamboyant, etc

But Oscar, to borrow from Benitez, is a cutting edge player. Its not just about his skills, which are considerable, but its far more about how he puts it to the benefit of the team.

You need to understand the concept of movement in football. The positions Oscar takes on the field, esp without the ball, and the movements he makes are on a level beyond Mata's abilities.

[bamenda boy]

Not! I hear he has already signed with Chelshite!

[Aj1211]

Not confirmed. There are even conflicting reports that Chelsea turned him down and he's now talking to Inter.

What reminding though is that he's officially 32.

[bamenda boy]

I thought he took a one year offer?

[Comrade Machel]

How come BBC is not reporting anything about Eto'o issue

[paj]

Oscar is a much better player than Mata

..care to pull their stats from last season..mumu?
Pa

[paj]

honestly..i laugh @ all this 'stuff' about Oscar being a better player..when all of last season when Mata no play we no dey near goal...I mean..what are U dudes talking about?Is it the ability to be effective or the ability to dance azonto on the ball??#SMH!U dont win "PLAYER OF THE YEAR" two years in a row without being the best on the team..PERIOD!
Pa

[txj]

honestly..i laugh @ all this 'stuff' about Oscar being a better player..when all of last season when Mata no play we no dey near goal...I mean..what are U dudes talking about?Is it the ability to be effective or the ability to dance azonto on the ball??#SMH!U dont win "PLAYER OF THE YEAR" two years in a row without being the best on the team..PERIOD!
Pa

I can understand why you are having such difficulty coming to terms with this, even given the fact one player is ensconced as a starter and the other is being quietly hawked around Europe, player of the year and all...

With a considerable portion of your grey matter devoted to azonto, and liberal portions of iyan, its understandable.

Its okay son...its ok.

[paj]

honestly..i laugh @ all this 'stuff' about Oscar being a better player..when all of last season when Mata no play we no dey near goal...I mean..what are U dudes talking about?Is it the ability to be effective or the ability to dance azonto on the ball??#SMH!U dont win "PLAYER OF THE YEAR" two years in a row without being the best on the team..PERIOD!
Pa

I can understand why you are having such difficulty coming to terms with this, even given the fact one player is ensconced as a starter and the other is being quietly hawked around Europe, player of the year and all...

With a considerable portion of your grey matter devoted to azonto, and liberal portions of iyan, its understandable.

Its okay son...its ok.

..so..Oga expert..how come this was NOT even in conversation, unthinkable and unfathomable just 10 weeks ago? I mean.many of U seem to be leaning the same way cyber pundits out there are leaning because he's not a "mourinho type player"by some measurement of your imagination.Btw..the player that's being "quietly hawked around Europe" is the same one sworn to be kept by Mourinho..bros..I'd recommed U stop subscribing to the Ikebe Super Sport section..the difference on the field barely 3 matches in is due to fitness levels.....if in doubt, we'll revisit this issue again Xmas time..
Pa

[txj]

honestly..i laugh @ all this 'stuff' about Oscar being a better player..when all of last season when Mata no play we no dey near goal...I mean..what are U dudes talking about?Is it the ability to be effective or the ability to dance azonto on the ball??#SMH!U dont win "PLAYER OF THE YEAR" two years in a row without being the best on the team..PERIOD!
Pa

I can understand why you are having such difficulty coming to terms with this, even given the fact one player is ensconced as a starter and the other is being quietly hawked around Europe, player of the year and all...

With a considerable portion of your grey matter devoted to azonto, and liberal portions of iyan, its understandable.

Its okay son...its ok.

..so..Oga expert..how come this was NOT even in conversation, unthinkable and unfathomable just 10 weeks ago? I mean.many of U seem to be leaning the same way cyber pundits out there are leaning because he's not a "mourinho type player"by some measurement of your imagination.Btw..the player that's being "quietly hawked around Europe" is the same one sworn to be kept by Mourinho..bros..I'd recommed U stop subscribing to the Ikebe Super Sport section..the difference on the field barely 3 matches in is due to fitness levels.....if in doubt, we'll revisit this issue again Xmas time..
Pa

You mean the same way he 'swore' he was only interested in signing one player, Rooney?

[analyzer]

G4L,
I disagree.. Your quip with Mata has always been about his inability to withstand the physical/defensive battle.. Get shoved off ball easily and so on..

The debate with txj is on intelligence and as far as AM/playing in the hole is concerned, mata does it more intelligently than Oscar.. You can't downgrade a player's intelligence because e no sabi how to mark/defend.. That is a skill set he just does not have..

As for disappearing in big games.. depends on which big game una wan complain of.. IMO, when CFC is on the back foot and forced to defend, Mata is short one as evident in UCL... As has been pointed out already..

Given his all round game, Oscar definitely provides greater tactical balance, but it will come at the cost of greater offensive play. I agree we are yet to see the best of Oscar but currently, Mata is the better AM IMO.

I think you need some more guidance from G4L...

Your debate with me is about overall abilities of both players vis a vis Jose's team.

And overall Oscar is the superior player. To repeat myself, he thinks of the game at a higher level than Mata, and not just in the #10 role.

yes Mata is creative; he is flamboyant, etc

But Oscar, to borrow from Benitez, is a cutting edge player. Its not just about his skills, which are considerable, but its far more about how he puts it to the benefit of the team.

You need to understand the concept of movement in football. The positions Oscar takes on the field, esp without the ball, and the movements he makes are on a level beyond Mata's abilities.

txj, stop putting up arguments we never had.. We (at least not me) were not talking about over all ability as main talking point.. This discussion started when I posted

For now its all rumours. ? Will be revisited later.
To be clear, mata and willian are NOT in anyway similar.
Jm could be thinking kdb/hazard/oscar can do mata's job. Make no mistake, none of them is currently as good as mata.

And your first response

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=235422&start=920

For now its all rumours. ? Will be revisited later.
To be clear, mata and willian are NOT in anyway similar.
Jm could be thinking kdb/hazard/oscar can do mata's job. Make no mistake, none of them is currently as good as mata.
The obsession with rooney is ridiculous imo. But na siddon look mode activated. Definitely need a striker

Oscar is more intelligent, tactically...and offers much greater balance

Mata of course is superior going forward...

That is the koko of the matter..
Intelligent - NO.. at worse, both are similar.. Tactically and overall team balance, will give it to Oscar.. But what is the point of balance when you cannot create much..
Offensively, oscar cannot shine Mata's shoes currently.. Mata plays the 10 at a higher level than oscar currently can.. Reads the final 3rd of the pitch perfectly with his passing and movement!!! This is needed vs. tight defenses.. Oscar IMO is still a neophyte in that 10 role..
Mata's downfall is that he cannot defend/not good at it..

I remember in the CFC thread, i asked "does Mata have enough upside to his game to make him totally indispensable under Jose?"
Anyways, all na rumors for now..

That's precisely what makes him more intelligent!

Without tactical balance you cannot get in the conversation with managers like Jose or Benitez...

If I were Mata's agent, I would be burning up the phones already...

As for our boy Moses, I have one word- Sturridge

You even agreed Mata was superior going forward.. Then we starting quibbling about intelligence..
Throughout the discussion, I always maintained that Mata is very intelligent in the role (AM) he plays and does it better than Oscar.. but Oscar gives better tactical balance.. But oscar replacing mata in the hole will come at lesser offensive play..

Hence why I started asking since Mata's rumors showed up - Does Mata have enough upside in his game to accommodate his weaknesses hence having him in the starting line up.. You dont just in one swoop discard a player that reached 20G + 20A..

[analyzer]

@Paj,
Will take Jose's word with a grain of salt..

When asked about Mata, he said

No speculation, no speculation. He's a player we all like, he's a player we all want to keep. We want more quality in the team, we don't want less quality.

We want to add quality to the quality we have. So Juan is not a player we want to lose.

But when asked about Luiz he said,

We like him. He is an important player and the club is not ready to sell him for any price

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z2d6PAbAIy

Will let you decide which of the two responses sounds more decisive and reassuring..

[analyzer]

Anyone happy with Oscar running offense?

Like I said, this over tactical thing will come at an expense.. Jose need to be careful not to out coach himself.... At some point, need to learn to let the team play to their strengths while figuring out how to plug in the holes..

[txj]

He went to OT not to lose and he succeed

[analyzer]

He went to OT not to lose and he succeed

So whats your point
In assuming he played not to lose, did he not sacrifice tactics/players that could provide better offensive play?

In a rational sense - a point at OT is decent.. But as a fan, one gets the feeling the team could have achieved more.. O well, early days.. I guess na to keep with the pack before trying to break out..

[soma]

To me hazard should be the one that gives way for Mata.

[juventuss]

To me hazard should be the one that gives way for Mata.

No.. Take out that DeBrune dude.

[anikulapo]

Eden Hazard?

on Chelshyt sites na plenty Buyer's remorse

[paj]

honestly..i laugh @ all this 'stuff' about Oscar being a better player..when all of last season when Mata no play we no dey near goal...I mean..what are U dudes talking about?Is it the ability to be effective or the ability to dance azonto on the ball??#SMH!U dont win "PLAYER OF THE YEAR" two years in a row without being the best on the team..PERIOD!
Pa

I can understand why you are having such difficulty coming to terms with this, even given the fact one player is ensconced as a starter and the other is being quietly hawked around Europe, player of the year and all...

With a considerable portion of your grey matter devoted to azonto, and liberal portions of iyan, its understandable.

Its okay son...its ok.

..so..Oga expert..how come this was NOT even in conversation, unthinkable and unfathomable just 10 weeks ago? I mean.many of U seem to be leaning the same way cyber pundits out there are leaning because he's not a "mourinho type player"by some measurement of your imagination.Btw..the player that's being "quietly hawked around Europe" is the same one sworn to be kept by Mourinho..bros..I'd recommed U stop subscribing to the Ikebe Super Sport section..the difference on the field barely 3 matches in is due to fitness levels.....if in doubt, we'll revisit this issue again Xmas time..
Pa

You mean the same way he 'swore' he was only interested in signing one player, Rooney?

Care to bet me a plate of Amala @ Bukom Cafe sey neither Mata or Luiz are leaving? NONE!Neither!!

[soma]

Eden Hazard?

on Chelshyt sites na plenty Buyer's remorse

Honestly what does Hazard do apart from body swerves leading no where, and little darting runs with no end product. Hazard is overrated.

I completely agree with Analyzer, Mourinho needs to be carefully not to out coach himself and let the boys play and he can look to use his coaching ability to plug the gaps. I believe with a little more attacking intent we could have won today.