Where's DAMUNK?

Where Eagles dare! Discuss Nigerian related football (soccer) topics here.

Moderators: Moderator Team, phpBB2 - Administrators

User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

Tobi17 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:35 am
😡
:D
I know say you dey vex, but nobody makes the best decisions when the red mist descends and beclouds their judgement.
Calm down.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, this isn’t about you, what you did or didn’t do.
This is about the “public outcry” as we all remember.
Whoever has the superior record is immaterial at this point.
No two records are identical.
Stamp your ‘failure’ on the current record and let us know what you are or aren’t saying, why, and what you recommend.
There are very strong similarities in both cases, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not.

Point is, what next?
That’s all I’m interested in. :idea:
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23616
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk

The point made, as I see it, is that Rohr is DONE whenever his contract is over. He should not stay a second longer. Here is what I think.

1. This team for all the NFF has done seeking talent from all over has not produced to the expectation.

2. The team, disappointingly, has not regularly dominated games even those that it has won. This is down to the coaching approach.

3. While Rohr has built a stable and deep squad, the on field performance has not been inspirational. Think about how Nigeria as well as other African countries dealt with Algeria just a few years ago. Algeria has since grown rapidly under Belmadi.... yet we have not only stagnated but recent results indicate a possible decline without reaching the goal.

4. For five years; the team still lacks poor talent in certain positions but same players persist even when possible replacements are either in the squad or available for call ups.

5. While seeking time for the manager of a national team is important for obvious reasons, one has to be intuitive to know when to cut loose. You should not be stuck with a poor manager simply because you seek management longevity. What is good is rather longevity for a GOOD manager and not every manager.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:07 am Damunk

The point made, as I see it, is that Rohr is DONE whenever his contract is over. He should not stay a second longer. Here is what I think.

1. This team for all the NFF has done seeking talent from all over has not produced to the expectation.

2. The team, disappointingly, has not regularly dominated games even those that it has won. This is down to the coaching approach.

3. While Rohr has built a stable and deep squad, the on field performance has not been inspirational. Think about how Nigeria as well as other African countries dealt with Algeria just a few years ago. Algeria has since grown rapidly under Belmadi.... yet we have not only stagnated but recent results indicate a possible decline without reaching the goal.

4. For five years; the team still lacks poor talent in certain positions but same players persist even when possible replacements are either in the squad or available for call ups.

5. While seeking time for the manager of a national team is important for obvious reasons, one has to be intuitive to know when to cut loose. You should not be stuck with a poor manager simply because you seek management longevity. What is good is rather longevity for a GOOD manager and not every manager.
I def agree with you on (2) and (3) and I don’t think anybody will.
“Possible decline” is arguable and has some merit, but let’s not paint the situation worse than it actually is.
We are still on track and the ‘decline’ isn’t proven yet and definitely isn’t on an irreversible downward spiral.
Let’s not bury them before they die.

As for (4), unless you are arguing that Rohr’s squad recruitment and selections have been highly questionable, then there’s not much anyone can do if the best players we have aren’t good enough. Your (or my) opinions on who is better in certain positions are highly subjective and no better than the next guy’s who totally disagrees with them. Debate here on CE reflects this every single day.

There is nothing glaringly poor or highly suspicious to the majority of us wrt selections. One man’s meat is another man’s poison: Nwakali, Alhassan, Okoye, Uzoho, Moses, Kalu, Musa, Onuachu. The list is endless.
That’s why someone gets paid (well, occasionally) to take the decisions. :D

For (5), my position has always been not to leave a vacuum. Don’t just change because you are unhappy and can only point to subjective feelings, rather than facts. But most importantly, have a plan B that is at least promises to be arguably better than what you have.
Not equivalent to. Not a ‘creative experimental’ choice. But better.

Prof, you feel Amuneke is a better choice, or at least equivalent to what we have.
But I put it to you that if Amuneke were anything other than a Nigerian (eg a Ghanaian, South African, Ivorian etc) you wouldn’t give him a second look.
That right there is pure sentiment. :idea:
If I had Amuneke’s ear, I’d advise him to steer clear for now.
Why?
Because I wouldn’t want his name and reputation smeared by these same Nigerians who are calling for him to take charge when he’s not ready.
Anyway, about a year ago he said he wasn’t interested. Wise man.
I hope he hasn’t changed his mind yet.
.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23616
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:37 am
Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:07 am Damunk

The point made, as I see it, is that Rohr is DONE whenever his contract is over. He should not stay a second longer. Here is what I think.

1. This team for all the NFF has done seeking talent from all over has not produced to the expectation.

2. The team, disappointingly, has not regularly dominated games even those that it has won. This is down to the coaching approach.

3. While Rohr has built a stable and deep squad, the on field performance has not been inspirational. Think about how Nigeria as well as other African countries dealt with Algeria just a few years ago. Algeria has since grown rapidly under Belmadi.... yet we have not only stagnated but recent results indicate a possible decline without reaching the goal.

4. For five years; the team still lacks poor talent in certain positions but same players persist even when possible replacements are either in the squad or available for call ups.

5. While seeking time for the manager of a national team is important for obvious reasons, one has to be intuitive to know when to cut loose. You should not be stuck with a poor manager simply because you seek management longevity. What is good is rather longevity for a GOOD manager and not every manager.
I def agree with you on (2) and (3) and I don’t think anybody will.
“Possible decline” is arguable and has some merit, but let’s not paint the situation worse than it actually is.
We are still on track and the ‘decline’ isn’t proven yet and definitely isn’t on an irreversible downward spiral.
Let’s not bury them before they die.

As for (4), unless you are arguing that Rohr’s squad recruitment and selections have been highly questionable, then there’s not much anyone can do if the best players we have aren’t good enough. Your (or my) opinions on who is better in certain positions are highly subjective and no better than the next guy’s who totally disagrees with them. Debate here on CE reflects this every single day.

There is nothing glaringly poor or highly suspicious to the majority of us wrt selections. One man’s meat is another man’s poison: Nwakali, Alhassan, Okoye, Uzoho, Moses, Kalu, Musa, Onuachu. The list is endless.
That’s why someone gets paid (well, occasionally) to take the decisions. :D

For (5), my position has always been not to leave a vacuum. Don’t just change because you are unhappy and can only point to subjective feelings, rather than facts. But most importantly, have a plan B that is at least promises to be arguably better than what you have.
Not equivalent to. Not a ‘creative experimental’ choice. But better.

Prof, you feel Amuneke is a better choice, or at least equivalent to what we have.
But I put it to you that if Amuneke were anything other than a Nigerian (eg a Ghanaian, South African, Ivorian etc) you wouldn’t give him a second look.
That right there is pure sentiment. :idea:
If I had Amuneke’s ear, I’d advise him to steer clear for now.
Why?
Because I wouldn’t want his name and reputation smeared by these same Nigerians who are calling for him to take charge when he’s not ready.
Anyway, about a year ago he said he wasn’t interested. Wise man.
I hope he hasn’t changed his mind yet.
.
4. Yes my argument is that his selection is questionable. We have seen Awaziem play, for instance, not only is he comfortable in the ball but a very good defender but Rohr persists with his central defense choices who clearly are not as comfortable on the ball nor are they clearly better defending. This is just an example and there are others.

5. I really do not understand your persistence in this. Belmadi was waiting when Algeria picked him? Was he in staff at the time? Nope. For the NT, you can pick a replacement from wherever.

You seem think Amuneke is pure sentimental. I certainly think not. He took Tanzania to credible AFCON appearance after years of ninqualufication. That is no mean feat for Tanzania. That is an indication of his quality. Then he won the FIFA youth Cup.

The above is not sentimental if you ask me. Not at all. My only concern with Amuneke is simply the style. He plays a very exciting style based on persistent pressure. However, i wonder how veterans on the team will take to it. That is my only worry.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
Lolly
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 50077
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:03 pm
Location: The Kingdom
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Lolly »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Why do you guys like to rewrite history? Amodu's crime was the atrocious performance of his team at the ANC. It was horrible and the loss to Senegal was just the final straw. Amodu was a good manager no doubt though I never liked his style of football but that ANC performance was so bad on the eye, that a lot of people wanted him replaced before the world cup.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:09 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Why do you guys like to rewrite history? Amodu's crime was the atrocious performance of his team at the ANC. It was horrible and the loss to Senegal was just the final straw. Amodu was a good manager no doubt though I never liked his style of football but that ANC performance was so bad on the eye, that a lot of people wanted him replaced before the world cup.
Being “bad on the eye” is EXACTLY what I remember about the man’s sacking.
Nigerians including myself I must add, didn’t like his style of play and that was the whole injustice of the decision, despite his results.
His game wasn’t “exciting” like the Finidi, Okocha, Amuneke era of 94-98 when we were described as “the most entertaining team” of one of those World Cups. The ferocious attacking style was further embedded in our consciousness by the ‘96 Olympic gold medal winning team.

People have either truly forgotten or have conveniently forgotten….or never knew in the first place because they are/were too young.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:09 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Why do you guys like to rewrite history? Amodu's crime was the atrocious performance of his team at the ANC. It was horrible and the loss to Senegal was just the final straw. Amodu was a good manager no doubt though I never liked his style of football but that ANC performance was so bad on the eye, that a lot of people wanted him replaced before the world cup.
Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
User avatar
Lolly
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 50077
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:03 pm
Location: The Kingdom
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Lolly »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:09 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Why do you guys like to rewrite history? Amodu's crime was the atrocious performance of his team at the ANC. It was horrible and the loss to Senegal was just the final straw. Amodu was a good manager no doubt though I never liked his style of football but that ANC performance was so bad on the eye, that a lot of people wanted him replaced before the world cup.
Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Bros, performance is not just the results. I said it was "bad on the eye". You need to go through the CE archives and read what people were saying.
The football his team played during that ANC was so poor. Majority were screaming for a change before we go and disgrace ourselves at the World Cup. In hindsight, we should have given him the chance to redeem himself.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:59 am
5. I really do not understand your persistence in this. Belmadi was waiting when Algeria picked him? Was he in staff at the time? Nope. For the NT, you can pick a replacement from wherever.
Prof, I’m not referring to someone in the employ of the NFF already.
I’m talking about hiring someone from anywhere in the world that is clearly of a better pedigree - with evidence - than Rohr. I’ve said this several times already.
You seem to have forgotten that even Rohr was an emergency replacement for some Oyibo coach that developed cold feet at the last minute.
It’s good that you are optimistic that credible replacements are out there yanfu-yanfu, but all we keep hearing is Amuneke, Finidi and….and….
So forgive me if I and many others do not share your optimism.

The only workable scenario I see is sacking Rohr after the World Cup (if we qualify), regardless of outcome and without the pressure of time, seeking a truly young, ambitious and promising coach to take over. That coach could be an Amuneke, but he will need to hit the ground running because our people no send.
In my view, that would be a more pragmatic approach with minimal risk and those enquiries should start very early.

I
By Gods grace, we will all be here to see if the clamour for Amuneke will persist once Rohr is finally out of the picture.
For some strange reason, I think not. :lol:
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:42 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm
Lolly wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:09 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:26 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:30 am
oscar52 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:18 am This particular loss doesnt bother me, the goal was more due to Balogun not been aware of where Ekong was, an error that hopefully relegate Balogun to backup. This happens to some of the best sometimes. But its the kind of foofball being played. RIP Amodu, but this is the kind of football that got Amodu canned twice even after qualifying Nigeria for the WC, its the kind of football that is alot of huffing and puffing against smaller football nations and losing or scraping by when on paper it seems to indicate a blowout.
You are exactly right.
But people can’t eat their cake and have it. You can’t on the one hand be lamenting the “injustice” or the “stupidity” of the way Amodu was dealt with all those years ago and then on the other hand call for the exact same thing today.
This team does not play with confidence and does not inspire confidence in the fans, and probably not their employers either.
The so-called “failure” widely lamented is about not inspiring confidence and not, at this stage, a failure to meet set goals. It is therefore all very subjective and speculatory. Couple this with the total absence of credible replacements and you find us in a hole. I’m not even mentioning the financial catch-22 the NFF finds itself in.
If Amody can be canned, I dont get why Rohr is protected either and given excuse for.
This makes no sense.
The ‘canning’ of Amodu, in hindsight is now widely seen as wrong in every aspect. How would any sensible nation push to repeat the same mistake in similar circumstances and then claim to be making progress?
Here’s a reminder from Feb 2002 of just one of the Amodu sackings, repeated believe it or not, years later. Note the term “huge public outcry”.
Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.
Sound familiar? :oops:

I would think that the key and only factor in the current circumstances would be whether Rohr still commands the respect of the players.
As they say, has he lost the dressing room? If he has, then there is no argument. No further progress can be made. But it still leaves the huge problem of who steps in.
This is no time to mess around with experimental coaching combinations or U17 ‘geniuses’ whose list of achievements includes “qualifying a nation for AFCON for the first time in 40 years” - only to come last by the way. That’s laughable. Thanks, but no thanks.
Nigerians will turn on their own in even more vicious ways at the first hint of trouble, including all those screaming for change right here right now on CE.
They probably did the same thing when Amodu was going thru his own wahala, but time dulls the memory and hides the evidence. CE never forgets though. :lol:

I doubt ANY true fan is happy with how the team is performing right now and confidence is lacking. Forget the straw man arguments and the silly one-upmanship polluting the debate. People seem more intent on scoring cheap and childish personal points. The main point of contention is whether replacing Rohr is the right thing to do right now and that includes succession.
Opinions differ and rightly so. No one has the answer and shouldn’t claim to.

Nigerians do not handle this kind of crisis well and our reaction to adversity is typical. Nor be today. We are playing out an old movie.
Give me a coach with pedigree who is obviously more experienced with demonstrable and relevant results then I’m all for it. I don’t and won’t buy the spurious argument that “A or B is no worse than Rohr was when he was hired.”
Really? That’s just stupid. You are complaining that Rohr wasn’t and still isn’t good enough yet you want to sack him in the middle of a campaign he isn’t exactly failing in and then hire someone no better. For real?
You can’t make this up.

Bottom line is we have very limited choices right now, both by accident and design.
But one choice we do have is to not panic and make the SAME boneheaded decision we have made not once, not twice, in the past.

Abuse me as you like’.
Up Eagles!
Amodu's record was superior to Rohr's. He had taken over a flagging campaign led by Jo Bonfrere and turned it around (with some very convincing performance) only to be kicked out after his first competitive loss of that particular stint of his SE career. The loss was to a Senegal and we missed a late penalty to take it to a shootout. How does that compare to Rohr? It took me 5 years to call for his head against less than a year for Amodu in 2002.
Why do you guys like to rewrite history? Amodu's crime was the atrocious performance of his team at the ANC. It was horrible and the loss to Senegal was just the final straw. Amodu was a good manager no doubt though I never liked his style of football but that ANC performance was so bad on the eye, that a lot of people wanted him replaced before the world cup.
Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Bros, performance is not just the results. I said it was "bad on the eye". You need to go through the CE archives and read what people were saying.
The football his team played during that ANC was so poor. Majority were screaming for a change before we go and disgrace ourselves at the World Cup. In hindsight, we should have given him the chance to redeem himself.
Results are objective. I had no issues with his game in 2002 (the only goals we conceded in that tournament were the 2 against Senegal) .They were not complaining about his style during the qualifying campaign when his teams were impressive. The moment they didn't feel like they liked his playing style in the tournament many turned on him.

A foreign coach would have been given the benefit of the doubt given his role in reviving our almost dead WCQ campaign, and the results in the ANC. But Amodu was fired because he was local. It is time for Rohr to go. His teams are not free scoring and unlike Amodu's teams we cannot have the comfort that they are tight at the back.
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, what do you think or recall the “huge public outcry” to get rid of Amodu was about?
His results? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, what do you think or recall the “huge public outcry” to get rid of Amodu was about?
His results? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Read my most recent post. My point is that Amodu and Rohr are not comparable. Rohr has had more time and his results are not as good as Amodu's.
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm Results are objective. I had no issues with his game in 2002 (the only goals we conceded in that tournament were the 2 against Senegal) .They were not complaining about his style during the qualifying campaign when his teams were impressive. The moment they didn't feel like they liked his playing style in the tournament many turned on him.

A foreign coach would have been given the benefit of the doubt given his role in reviving our almost dead WCQ campaign, and the results in the ANC. But Amodu was fired because he was local. It is time for Rohr to go. His teams are not free scoring and unlike Amodu's teams we cannot have the comfort that they are tight at the back.
Bro, Bonfrere the foreigner was fired in the middle of that WC campaign for Amodu the local to take over!
You still don’t see the typical Nigerian recurring pattern of ‘ODOO’ (Overtake, Don’t Overtake, Overtake) here?
(By the way, ‘Odoo’ in Yoruba means ‘zero’).
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:58 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, what do you think or recall the “huge public outcry” to get rid of Amodu was about?
His results? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Read my most recent post. My point is that Amodu and Rohr are not comparable. Rohr has had more time and his results are not as good as Amodu's.
But you haven’t answered my innocent question.
What do you feel the “huge public outcry” was about?
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 23616
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk

LOL. I know perfectly well that you understand the critically point that aruako made. Surely!

No point attempting the twist. Best to read it again. It is clear and an important distinction.

Bonfrere was given several opportunities and fired when Nigeria's qualification chances were quite minimal. Amodu basically performed a miracle when there was ZERO margin for error. Yet at the end when WC qualification was achieved, he was still fired.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:59 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm Results are objective. I had no issues with his game in 2002 (the only goals we conceded in that tournament were the 2 against Senegal) .They were not complaining about his style during the qualifying campaign when his teams were impressive. The moment they didn't feel like they liked his playing style in the tournament many turned on him.

A foreign coach would have been given the benefit of the doubt given his role in reviving our almost dead WCQ campaign, and the results in the ANC. But Amodu was fired because he was local. It is time for Rohr to go. His teams are not free scoring and unlike Amodu's teams we cannot have the comfort that they are tight at the back.
Bro, Bonfrere the foreigner was fired in the middle of that WC campaign for Amodu the local to take over!
You still don’t see the typical Nigerian recurring pattern of ‘ODOO’ (Overtake, Don’t Overtake, Overtake) here?
(By the way, ‘Odoo’ in Yoruba means ‘zero’).
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Bonfrere was fired because the qualifying campaign had become hopeless. Liberia had it in its hands. No foreign coach would have touched the job at the time.
User avatar
aruako1
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 12612
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:27 pm
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by aruako1 »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:01 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:58 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, what do you think or recall the “huge public outcry” to get rid of Amodu was about?
His results? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Read my most recent post. My point is that Amodu and Rohr are not comparable. Rohr has had more time and his results are not as good as Amodu's.
But you haven’t answered my innocent question.
What do you feel the “huge public outcry” was about?
I answered it already in the post I referred you to.
User avatar
Cellular
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 53724
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:59 pm
Location: Nembe Creek...Oil Exploration. If you call am bunkering na you sabi.
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Cellular »

Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:37 am
Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:07 am Damunk

The point made, as I see it, is that Rohr is DONE whenever his contract is over. He should not stay a second longer. Here is what I think.

1. This team for all the NFF has done seeking talent from all over has not produced to the expectation.

2. The team, disappointingly, has not regularly dominated games even those that it has won. This is down to the coaching approach.

3. While Rohr has built a stable and deep squad, the on field performance has not been inspirational. Think about how Nigeria as well as other African countries dealt with Algeria just a few years ago. Algeria has since grown rapidly under Belmadi.... yet we have not only stagnated but recent results indicate a possible decline without reaching the goal.

4. For five years; the team still lacks poor talent in certain positions but same players persist even when possible replacements are either in the squad or available for call ups.

5. While seeking time for the manager of a national team is important for obvious reasons, one has to be intuitive to know when to cut loose. You should not be stuck with a poor manager simply because you seek management longevity. What is good is rather longevity for a GOOD manager and not every manager.
I def agree with you on (2) and (3) and I don’t think anybody will.
“Possible decline” is arguable and has some merit, but let’s not paint the situation worse than it actually is.
We are still on track and the ‘decline’ isn’t proven yet and definitely isn’t on an irreversible downward spiral.
Let’s not bury them before they die.

As for (4), unless you are arguing that Rohr’s squad recruitment and selections have been highly questionable, then there’s not much anyone can do if the best players we have aren’t good enough. Your (or my) opinions on who is better in certain positions are highly subjective and no better than the next guy’s who totally disagrees with them. Debate here on CE reflects this every single day.

There is nothing glaringly poor or highly suspicious to the majority of us wrt selections. One man’s meat is another man’s poison: Nwakali, Alhassan, Okoye, Uzoho, Moses, Kalu, Musa, Onuachu. The list is endless.
That’s why someone gets paid (well, occasionally) to take the decisions. :D

For (5), my position has always been not to leave a vacuum. Don’t just change because you are unhappy and can only point to subjective feelings, rather than facts. But most importantly, have a plan B that is at least promises to be arguably better than what you have.
Not equivalent to. Not a ‘creative experimental’ choice. But better.

Prof, you feel Amuneke is a better choice, or at least equivalent to what we have.
But I put it to you that if Amuneke were anything other than a Nigerian (eg a Ghanaian, South African, Ivorian etc) you wouldn’t give him a second look.
That right there is pure sentiment. :idea:
If I had Amuneke’s ear, I’d advise him to steer clear for now.
Why?
Because I wouldn’t want his name and reputation smeared by these same Nigerians who are calling for him to take charge when he’s not ready.
Anyway, about a year ago he said he wasn’t interested. Wise man.
I hope he hasn’t changed his mind yet.
.
Damunk abeg what pattern of play can you discern his team plays?

Do you perhaps know what sort of team he is building?

You look at his team can you honestly say that he has shown you the ability to win or if faced with a team of equal or better players have the ability to outmaneuver the opposing coach?
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

...can't cry more than the bereaved!

Well done is better than well said!!!
User avatar
Lolly
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 50077
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:03 pm
Location: The Kingdom
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Lolly »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:06 pm Damunk

LOL. I know perfectly well that you understand the critically point that aruako made. Surely!

No point attempting the twist. Best to read it again. It is clear and an important distinction.

Bonfrere was given several opportunities and fired when Nigeria's qualification chances were quite minimal. Amodu basically performed a miracle when there was ZERO margin for error. Yet at the end when WC qualification was achieved, he was still fired.
Yea right. How convenient not to mention his team’s performance at the ANC.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:28 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:01 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:58 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:53 pm
aruako1 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm Which other competitive loss did he have in that stint? He won all his qualifying games for the World Cup impressively.

At the Nations Cup tournament he played 6, won 4, drew 1 (against Mali that he beat in the 3rd place match) and lost one game in extra-time (after missing a penalty that would have sent the game to penalties) to a side that went on to reach the WC quarter finals. Is that the performance that you called atrocious? Rohr at the 2019 ANC played 7, won 5 and lost 2 (one to Madagascar) but somehow that was more acceptable than Amodu in 2002.
Aruako, what do you think or recall the “huge public outcry” to get rid of Amodu was about?
His results? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Read my most recent post. My point is that Amodu and Rohr are not comparable. Rohr has had more time and his results are not as good as Amodu's.
But you haven’t answered my innocent question.
What do you feel the “huge public outcry” was about?
I answered it already in the post I referred you to.
Sorry, is it where you confirmed that “they didn’t like his playing style”?
Pls don’t mind prof. I am NOT trying to “twist” anything.

If it clarifies things, I am just trying to make the point that Amodu was sacked by the NFA and (more relevant to my point) ridiculed by the public for reasons that had little to do with his results.
Are you referring to this or a different reason?

Pls just take it as a straight forward question.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
Damunk
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 52782
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: Where's DAMUNK?

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:06 pm Damunk

LOL. I know perfectly well that you understand the critically point that aruako made. Surely!

No point attempting the twist. Best to read it again. It is clear and an important distinction.

Bonfrere was given several opportunities and fired when Nigeria's qualification chances were quite minimal. Amodu basically performed a miracle when there was ZERO margin for error. Yet at the end when WC qualification was achieved, he was still fired.
Prof, how does this answer why there was a “huge public outcry”?
What was the public complaining about?
Certainly not his results.
And even if they were, was it rational and was the outcome justifiable considering his achievements?
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "

Post Reply