Rohr's record in competitive matches with Nigeria

[Enugu II]

Rohr 66%
Amodu 65%
Westerhof 59%
Keshi 50%


*Rohr*
23-6-6
won 23/35
*66%*

*Amodu*
24-10-3
won 24/37
*65%*

*Westerhof*
24-9-8
Won 24/41
*59%*

*Keshi*
16-10-6
won 16/32
*50%*


Ethiopia 1:0 Nigeria during Westerhof era is given to Chukwu


Eguavoen
9-1-2
Won 9/12
*75%*

In all, Rohr didn't do bad. We all know in this thing, only winning (W) counts

I think we have to be more nuanced than this.

Rohr's issue is not even about winning. It is about results achieved at HOME. The recent call for his immediate ouster was not about his overall record. Afterall he won away to CPV and did so without his top team. It was lauded.

The angst was about poor results at home and there were three recent such results and I do not believe Nigeria had a experienced that prior. That was the angst and atleast the angst rose to crescendo after those home results.

Thus it is not about overball results but looking specifically at what led to the call for his immediate disengagement.

[The YeyeMan]

Westerhoff 1 Afcon title, 1 silver medal.
Keshi 1 Afcon title
Rohr how many Afcon titles?

He is learning...

Meanwhile, Keshi only lost 6 games in spite and despite NFF shenenegans.


Don't even mention Amodu...

Apparently, they are the last of credible Naijarians who can coach.

This how many AFCONs thing should rest especially when mentioning Westerhoff. Westerhoff won on his 3rd attempt. Rohr has been to only 1, and still finished at the podium. Let's revisit in February, then you can make the comparisons.

Adis

Correct but we realize Keshi won on his first attempt, right? Rohr has indeed been to only one AFCON which is a fair point.

Keshi's 2nd attempt. First was with Togo.

[icee]

Mega, thanks a ton for the data.

[vancity eagle]

Westerhoff 1 Afcon title, 1 silver medal.
Keshi 1 Afcon title
Rohr how many Afcon titles?

He is learning...

Meanwhile, Keshi only lost 6 games in spite and despite NFF shenenegans.


Don't even mention Amodu...

Apparently, they are the last of credible Naijarians who can coach.

This how many AFCONs thing should rest especially when mentioning Westerhoff. Westerhoff won on his 3rd attempt. Rohr has been to only 1, and still finished at the podium. Let's revisit in February, then you can make the comparisons.

Adis

Correct but we realize Keshi won on his first attempt, right? Rohr has indeed been to only one AFCON which is a fair point.

Keshi's 2nd attempt. First was with Togo.

in that case THIRD ATTEMPT

Did you forget how he squandered Mali's golden generation ?

[vancity eagle]

anyways people are rewriting history.

The truth is that all previous and current SE coach had their moments and had times where they played piss poor soccer.

The much lauded Keshi lost against Congo and Sudan, drew against Kenya at home., and always found it tough to win qualifiers on the road, even in good times. These are not any different than the poor spell Rohr is going through.

What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy and those who made all sorts of excuses for Keshi's poor results yet cannot give those same excuses to Rohr.

[aruako1]

anyways people are rewriting history.

The truth is that all previous and current SE coach had their moments and had times where they played piss poor soccer.

The much lauded Keshi lost against Congo and Sudan, drew against Kenya at home., and always found it tough to win qualifiers on the road, even in good times. These are not any different than the poor spell Rohr is going through.

What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy and those who made all sorts of excuses for Keshi's poor results yet cannot give those same excuses to Rohr.

The difference that seems to go above your head (since you were in hiding when it happened) is that Keshi won the AFCON. Rohr has tried three times (with Niger, Nigeria and Gabon) and has failed to win. If he wins next month then all will be forgiven.

[vancity eagle]

anyways people are rewriting history.

The truth is that all previous and current SE coach had their moments and had times where they played piss poor soccer.

The much lauded Keshi lost against Congo and Sudan, drew against Kenya at home., and always found it tough to win qualifiers on the road, even in good times. These are not any different than the poor spell Rohr is going through.

What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy and those who made all sorts of excuses for Keshi's poor results yet cannot give those same excuses to Rohr.

The difference that seems to go above your head (since you were in hiding when it happened) is that Keshi won the AFCON. Rohr has tried three times (with Niger, Nigeria and Gabon) and has failed to win. If he wins next month then all will be forgiven.

but winning afcon is not a lifetime pass to play like crap and have it overlooked.

Jo Bonfrere won us the olympics but was later sacked for poor results.

And Rohr started great with SE. His qualifying record has never been matched by any SE coach. But while he used to qualify for tournaments with ease, that has now become a serious struggle.

[wanaj0]

anyways people are rewriting history.

The truth is that all previous and current SE coach had their moments and had times where they played piss poor soccer.

The much lauded Keshi lost against Congo and Sudan, drew against Kenya at home., and always found it tough to win qualifiers on the road, even in good times. These are not any different than the poor spell Rohr is going through.

What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy and those who made all sorts of excuses for Keshi's poor results yet cannot give those same excuses to Rohr.

The difference that seems to go above your head (since you were in hiding when it happened) is that Keshi won the AFCON. Rohr has tried three times (with Niger, Nigeria and Gabon) and has failed to win. If he wins next month then all will be forgiven.

but winning afcon is not a lifetime pass to play like crap and have it overlooked.

Jo Bonfrere won us the olympics but was later sacked for poor results.

And Rohr started great with SE. His qualifying record has never been matched by any SE coach. But while he used to qualify for tournaments with ease, that has now become a serious struggle.

People like you are EVIL and have no SHAME

You wanted Keshi sacked before the 'POOR' results. You all did everything possible to sabotage him. In your own case you wished him DEATH just for working while being owed by NFF.

To your SHAME he won the AFCON with little or no support from his employers and fans like you.

You can't erase that FACT! He is a winner

[wanaj0]

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

[Lolly]

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

Amodu was sacked for the ugly football that his team played at the AFCON, not just the loss to Senegal.

Keshi’s record was poor as we can see from the stats here. But he delivered a trophy which sets him apart from the others.

Rohr’s troubles are also because of the ugly football we are playing, not the results. He only lost one competitive match in the qualifiers and unfortunately that happened to be a home match.

[megapro]

Wanajo
Long Time
I hope you are doing great

Rohr was not given just a target to qualify for the AFCON
He was given a SF target

After failing to qualify for AFCON 2015 and 2017 and dropping to FIFA ranked 70 few were interested and expectations were low.

Many were happy to see us back competing with the best in Africa at all

In meeting and surpassing the SF target he did not only qualify with a game to spare he went to the tournament and won 5 games in regulation time including against 4 past AFCON champions and notably the formidable defending champions

Erasing the 2015 and 2017 lull, he got 20! debutants a medal in their very first AFCON joining Mikel, Musa and Umeruo and ushering a new young generation of Osimhen, Chukwueze, Kalu
No one ever achieved that

In hindsight also giving the 2018 WCq as Target was also not out of place

If you get any coach in the world and expect him to come tops in a WCQ group having Algeria, Cameroun and Zambia then sack him because he did not get in the second round of the WC from a group having Argentina and the best Croatian team ever. It is something

Remember you mentioned Amodu was sacked for getting knocked out by a Senegal team who eventually went to the WC QF

Rohr lost to a Croatia team that got to the final and was led by the eventual best player in the world

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

[megapro]

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

Amodu was sacked for the ugly football that his team played at the AFCON, not just the loss to Senegal.

Keshi’s record was poor as we can see from the stats here. But he delivered a trophy which sets him apart from the others.

Rohr’s troubles are also because of the ugly football we are playing, not the results. He only lost one competitive match in the qualifiers and unfortunately that happened to be a home match.

I don't know who has played sexy football in qualifiers

Rohr lost a qualification match at home 2017
He was not sacked
I don't think coaches should be sacked for losing a qualification match at home
What is important is qualification

Rohr needed a point against CV
He got it
If he needed to avoid losing 0:5
0:4 would have done

People are sad that he let a 4:0 lead slip at home

Germany let a 4:0 WCq slip at home in front of the Kanzlerin
No one called for a sack
Same coach won that very WC

Germany have lost 3:8 in a WC proper and won the cup

We don't have the quality of 2018
Apart from Osimhen many have lost form

[Damunk]

Time plays tricks on the memory and I actually think most people are mixing memories.

The ‘94 team without a doubt and maybe to a lesser extent the ‘98 team are the only SE teams that played what could be termed ‘sexy’ football.
The ‘96 Olympic team, a blend of the full ‘94 and ‘98 teams, definitely played ‘sexy’ football.

Since then no team in my opinion played that kind of free flowing, exhilarating style. It was always kind of laboured and unpredictable…here today, gone tomorrow.

What might be confusing the picture is the great successes of the U17 teams which gave us boundless joy with their speedy ‘Nigerian style’. Ball na ball and we might be harbouring false memories of the SE having a history of ‘sexy’ football.

Not even the AFCON winning team of 2013 played like that.

[megapro]

Time plays tricks on the memory and I actually think most people are mixing memories.

The ‘94 team without a doubt and maybe to a lesser extent the ‘98 team are the only SE teams that played what could be termed ‘sexy’ football.
The ‘96 Olympic team, a blend of the full ‘94 and ‘98 teams, definitely played ‘sexy’ football.

Since then no team in my opinion played that kind of free flowing, exhilarating style. It was always kind of laboured and unpredictable…here today, gone tomorrow.

What might be confusing the picture is the great successes of the U17 teams which gave us boundless joy with their speedy ‘Nigerian style’. Ball na ball and we might be harbouring false memories of the SE having a history of ‘sexy’ football.

Not even the AFCON winning team of 2013 played like that.

1998 with an alien 352 then was our most confused qualification

[Lolly]

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

Amodu was sacked for the ugly football that his team played at the AFCON, not just the loss to Senegal.

Keshi’s record was poor as we can see from the stats here. But he delivered a trophy which sets him apart from the others.

Rohr’s troubles are also because of the ugly football we are playing, not the results. He only lost one competitive match in the qualifiers and unfortunately that happened to be a home match.

I don't know who has played sexy football in qualifiers

Rohr lost a qualification match at home 2017
He was not sacked
I don't think coaches should be sacked for losing a qualification match at home
What is important is qualification

Rohr needed a point against CV
He got it
If he needed to avoid losing 0:5
0:4 would have done

People are sad that he let a 4:0 lead slip at home

Germany let a 4:0 WCq slip at home in front of the Kanzlerin
No one called for a sack
Same coach won that very WC

Germany have lost 3:8 in a WC proper and won the cup

We don't have the quality of 2018
Apart from Osimhen many have lost form

The ugly football was played during AFCON, not the qualifiers. Majority of fans wanted Amodu out after the AFCON, that’s a fact.

Regarding the highlighted, thanks for saying the same thing I have been saying. We can try and pretend but the evidence is on the pitch. We don’t have the same quality and some of our older players are not at the level they were 3 years ago. Again, I blame Rohr for not scouting for better replacements or for ensuring there is healthy competition in camp. Players like Ekong don’t feel threatened by their back ups and it’s not good.

[Enugu II]

Westerhoff 1 Afcon title, 1 silver medal.
Keshi 1 Afcon title
Rohr how many Afcon titles?

He is learning...

Meanwhile, Keshi only lost 6 games in spite and despite NFF shenenegans.


Don't even mention Amodu...

Apparently, they are the last of credible Naijarians who can coach.

This how many AFCONs thing should rest especially when mentioning Westerhoff. Westerhoff won on his 3rd attempt. Rohr has been to only 1, and still finished at the podium. Let's revisit in February, then you can make the comparisons.

Adis

Correct but we realize Keshi won on his first attempt, right? Rohr has indeed been to only one AFCON which is a fair point.

Keshi's 2nd attempt. First was with Togo.

I was referring to Nigeria.

Togo has never even been to an AFCON final for one to expect any manager to get the there without considering it magical. All teams don't have access to similar talent pool.

BTW what Keshi did with Togo is nothing short if miracle. I do not believe Rohr can even dream of reaching similar heights with a similar team. Keshi took them to a World Cup finals appearance.

[Cellular]

Even cup-winning coaches get fired.
Coaches with a winning record get fired.

**** team was trending downwards.

He should have been fired after the World Cup.

But you now have natives making excuses why he should be kept despite the evidence that shows that his team is regressing and the play on the field has been unimpressive.

[wanaj0]

Wanajo
Long Time
I hope you are doing great

Rohr was not given just a target to qualify for the AFCON
He was given a SF target

After failing to qualify for AFCON 2015 and 2017 and dropping to FIFA ranked 70 few were interested and expectations were low.

Many were happy to see us back competing with the best in Africa at all

In meeting and surpassing the SF target he did not only qualify with a game to spare he went to the tournament and won 5 games in regulation time including against 4 past AFCON champions and notably the formidable defending champions

Erasing the 2015 and 2017 lull, he got 20! debutants a medal in their very first AFCON joining Mikel, Musa and Umeruo and ushering a new young generation of Osimhen, Chukwueze, Kalu
No one ever achieved that

In hindsight also giving the 2018 WCq as Target was also not out of place

If you get any coach in the world and expect him to come tops in a WCQ group having Algeria, Cameroun and Zambia then sack him because he did not get in the second round of the WC from a group having Argentina and the best Croatian team ever. It is something

Remember you mentioned Amodu was sacked for getting knocked out by a Senegal team who eventually went to the WC QF

Rohr lost to a Croatia team that got to the final and was led by the eventual best player in the world

Megapro, thanks for the stats.

Firstly I never supported the sack of Amodu. He delivered at all levels. He was sacked for losing at AFCON SF to Senegal that reached the QF of the WC. The results says it all.

To Rohr, I wanted him sacked after the world cup. NFF can set a WC and AFCON qualification as target but not me!

For AFCON the minimum of SF or you are sacked. That's why Berti stash was sacked even though some ITK's crowned him as the best coach.

Rohr failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is a 'sackable' one! That's when we should have sacked him. Any coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough. His performance with Burkina Faso and Niger did not shows that he can improve Nigeria. That was confirmed after the WC. We should have sacked him after the WC.

For Keshi, he should have resigned (which he did) after the AFCON. There was no support from the NFF. Saboteurs all over. Many were envious of his success. He succeeded inspite of those who should helped him. Keshi's performance with Togo is evidence of what he can do as a coach. Togo is yet to meet the achievements they had with Keshi. Nigeria is yet to meet the achievements we had with Keshi. That shows how good he is. First ATTEMPT AFOCON gold and WC second round. FACTS.

I love your stats. I like the fact that you did not include friendlies. But at the end of the day what matters if the TROPHY or how far you go at tournaments. While winning percentages are good I don't think all wins should carry equal weights!

Right now, I don't want Rohr sacked. He should be allowed to complete what he has started. If he cannot qualify Nigeria for the QF of the WC after so many years in charge he should be let go!

Megapro, Thanks. I am doing well and you?

A coach that cannot qualify for the 2nd round of the WC is not good enough for Nigeria. Period!

As per the period before Rohr, it was down to NFF. NFF basically sabotaged the coaches. If they provided those coaches half the support they gave Rohr, things will be different. Keshi took over and won the AFCON. We did not even qualify for the previous AFCON yet we qualified and he lifted the trophy.

It was clear after the WC that we need a coach 'better' than Rohr. His mindset is not able to motivate the players. That to me is the real issue. The current 'bad' result is a reflection of that.

As stated before, it is too late to sack him. They should leave him alone and prosecute the AFCON.

[BAP]

The call for Rohr's sacking is based on poor home results in the qualifiers that were shocking to state the least. Did he have a good result away? Yes and the win against CPV with a nonregular team was celebrated. If he had obtained a draw there it would have been celebrated. The outcry, thus, was following poor home results. That is the nuance. In my view it was never about overall results. Afterall the team had qualified for the final stage of the WCQ.

Why did it matter that home results were not good? Clearly, the home results were not obtained against big teams like Ghana, Cameroon, Algeria ir the lik we s but against Sierra Leone, CPV, and a loss to a very poor side. That had been the angst. In essence, there us a genuine concern if where the team is headed.

You have said it all ...

repeated friendly losses to teams like Cameroun and Algeria also did not help matters .. One just never got the vibe that Rohr could beat big teams anymore after the WC

[Schillachi]

Rohr has the best winning record for a Nigeria coach

15 matches as a benchmark

Oga, why is 15 matches the benchmark? Why not 10?

Eguavoen has the best record, boss.

[wiseone]

Really odd that two of the most maligned SE coaches of all time (Rohr and Amodu) actually had the best win records.

[donadoni]

It’s also a matter of expectation vs performance as well as the importance of the games


Rohr was given a lot of support, time and had a decent crop of players to work with - so towards the end he was underperforming and had to go

Amodu on the other hand I think deserves more empathy because he often had to work with limited time and whatever players and resources were available. And when he had success like qualifying us they didn’t give him the justified time to build on that success and moguls his team etc

[wiseone]

I am surprised to hear that Amodu had limited players and resources (Amodu managed Okocha, Kanu, Oliseh, George, Ikpeba, West, Amunike, Babayaro, Babangida, Martins, Yakubu, Uche, and Yobo in their prime).

Osimhen is the only world class player that Rohr had theoretical access to. Even then, Osimhen did not play 1 second for Rohr at a tournament because he was always injured.

It’s also a matter of expectation vs performance as well as the importance of the games


Rohr was given a lot of support, time and had a decent crop of players to work with - so towards the end he was underperforming and had to go

Amodu on the other hand I think deserves more empathy because he often had to work with limited time and whatever players and resources were available. And when he had success like qualifying us they didn’t give him the justified time to build on that success and moguls his team etc